The 2018 Azerbaijan GP Thread

[Ataxia]

In another (possible) forum first, the Azerbaijan thread comes directly from Baku. The hotel overlooks the circuit, which is kinda cool...

So anyway, after last year's barmfest, this one's got high expectations!

Sorry it's less long than last year's more surreal effort, but I'm a little shattered from the plane. If you ever get the chance to go to Baku, make sure you look out the window as you fly over the Caucasus...

Quick edit: a room with a view...

[yannicksamlad]

And there's FIA F2 action as well, to look forward to. I trust Ataxia still has a reserve of trusty puns and tortured wordplay for the weekend.

As a general point about Baku - does the long straight mean that the jeopardy from a safety car is so great that they should consider switching from a safety car to a VSC, and then letting them go green on the back straight, rather than at the start/finish?

[Spectoremg]

Interesting and very entertaining 2nd practice.

[good_Ralf]

So the weather forecast for the race... the air temperature will be as low as 15C and there's even a chance of rain.

[Barbazza]

I see Brundle is giving this one a swerve (along with a couple more later in the year) for some reason.

A chance to hear boring Paul 'Mershaydis' Di Resta all weekend then. Yaaaaayyyyyy....

[good_Ralf]

I've lost count of how many times Raikkonen has been faster in the first two sectors on his final Q3 before losing to his rival at the death
Still, given the number of mistakes from drivers, and the chance of it being more than a bit windy tomorrow, I'm still hoping it will be interesting, even with the usual suspects on the front row.

[Rob Dylan]

And it seems that for the first time this year I might actually have the time to watch the race when it happens!

[Barbazza]

Future World Champion Max Verstappen, ladies and gentlemen. Utter bell-end who doesn't deserve to be in F1 more like.

[Henrique]

That Perez!
And Leclerc scores!

[RAK]

This is going to produce an interesting Reject of the Race thread.

[Londoner]

Leclerc, Stroll and Hartley all in the points, the Red Bull melodrama inevitably exploding and twists at every corner. I love Baku, can we keep it on the calendar forever pls.

[WeirdKerr]

both red bull drivers to blame, time to get rid of both of them

[good_Ralf]

both red bull drivers to blame, time to get rid of both of them

Yeah, I'd say that was a 50-50 incident between the two, to put all/most of the blame on one driver wouldn't be fair to them.

[IceG]

Yeah, I'd say that was a 50-50 incident between the two, to put all/most of the blame on one driver wouldn't be fair to them.

Wonder what the stewards will say about Verstappen's second move under braking?

[mario]

Leclerc, Stroll and Hartley all in the points, the Red Bull melodrama inevitably exploding and twists at every corner. I love Baku, can we keep it on the calendar forever pls.

It went a bit quiet in the middle, but kind of went a bit mad later on - I agree that, with the way that the two Red Bull drivers were going at each other, it felt a bit like a question of when, rather than if, they were going to end up coming together (they'd already been banging wheels earlier in the race, and Verstappen was perhaps a little lucky that he hadn't stuck Ricciardo in a barrier during those earlier moves at Turn 1).

At least it let some of those lower down the field grab a few points, and it was somewhat ironic that it was some of the less experienced drivers who were the ones who managed to keep their heads.

[AdrianBelmonte_]

both red bull drivers to blame, time to get rid of both of them

Buemi and Hartley from Spain on

[Paul Hayes]

That was a bit good wasn't it? A bit of a jammy bastard win for Hamilton, but hey-ho.

Another one with lots of people with reasons to be pleased - Hamilton, Perez, LeClerc, McLaren, Stroll and Williams...

Favourite moments - Ferrari and / or the FIA having evidently realised what a stupid title "Head of on-track Operations" was, and now astoning Jock Clear as "Team Manager" instead, and of course the bare-faced cheek of Grosjean's "I think Ericsson hit me!"

[mario]

That was a bit good wasn't it? A bit of a jammy bastard win for Hamilton, but hey-ho.

Another one with lots of people with reasons to be pleased - Hamilton, Perez, LeClerc, McLaren, Stroll and Williams...

Favourite moments - Ferrari and / or the FIA having evidently realised what a stupid title "Head of on-track Operations" was, and now astoning Jock Clear as "Team Manager" instead, and of course the bare-faced cheek of Grosjean's "I think Ericsson hit me!"

Well, there is breaking news that Perez might not be quite so lucky - he's been summoned to the stewards about apparently using his DRS illegally (they did mention earlier in the race that they were switching to manually operating the system on the main straight, so it may be that he was using his DRS a little too much earlier on).

[Barbazza]

Today is an example of how I just can't get on with modern F1 - I see people on here and elsewhere calling that a great race and Baku a great circuit. I disagree as although I recognise that random races will always happen during the course of the season - and I am delighted that for example, Hartley got a point as a result of one - there was very little there that happened as a result of F1 itself being great. The circuit is, let's face it, a joke. The marshalling is probably the most dreadful of all the tracks.

Who genuinely deserved their finishing position there? Perez, Leclerc, Sainz. I think that's about it. Very few of the others earnt anything through - remember this? - overtaking anyone.

I know I will get called out for being 'out of step' or possibly 'Grandad' but I'm just calling it the way I see it now.

PS I'm sure we can agree on this one, how dreadful were the graphics again? The tower on the left getting confused again, wrong drivers being called, and no championship positions shown at any point (Mind you, Sky haven't bothered with that yet either)

[IceG]

Not to mention lugubrious cutting back to meaningless incidents from 20 laps prior and the awful cutting camera angle production in the middle of corners and overtaking manoeuvres so one has no idea of what happened until the replay.

Baku is a bad circuit that produces bread and circuses racing. A safety car seems almost guaranteed and it takes ages to clear whatever mess had happened. What serious manufacturer wants to put hundreds of £millions and their reputation on the line to compete in something so dependent on chance and luck? Do we really think Hamilton is proud of that win?

[Spectoremg]

I think as a tv spectacle Baku's great -the scenery's lovely and the cars look quick. Are the marshalls locals?

[mario]

Not to mention lugubrious cutting back to meaningless incidents from 20 laps prior and the awful cutting camera angle production in the middle of corners and overtaking manoeuvres so one has no idea of what happened until the replay.

Baku is a bad circuit that produces bread and circuses racing. A safety car seems almost guaranteed and it takes ages to clear whatever mess had happened. What serious manufacturer wants to put hundreds of £millions and their reputation on the line to compete in something so dependent on chance and luck? Do we really think Hamilton is proud of that win?

He did seem rather subdued after that race, and he did give the impression that he was more confused about how he ended up winning rather than celebrating that victory.

That said, let us not forget that the initial race there was a much more sedate - indeed, rather soporific - event that had people making the opposite complaint (i.e. that it was a bad circuit that was producing processional racing), so it feels a bit odd to suddenly hear people making the opposite complaint.

[Londoner]

That said, let us not forget that the initial race there was a much more sedate - indeed, rather soporific - event that had people making the opposite complaint (i.e. that it was a bad circuit that was producing processional racing), so it feels a bit odd to suddenly hear people making the opposite complaint.

I agree. Sometimes I don't really know what F1 fans actually want from F1.

Meanwhile, Stroll is also under investigation for illegal DRS use.

In addition, Pierre Gasly is absolutely furious with Magnussen regarding the last restart.

All in all it's given us a lot to mull over for the next two weeks.

[Barbazza]

What do I want from F1? Proper overtaking that isn't artifically assisted. A chance to watch drivers throw the cars around like Villeneuve and Rosberg used to do (that's Gilles and Keke in case of doubt) and produce some genuinely exciting spectacle. I know it's not going to happen but you did ask!

As for the Gasly / Magnussen incident, did we see it at all? I know Crofty mentioned it. In the background of one of the interviews you could see Magnussen deep in conversation with Hartley, presumably because it happened right in front of him. I think Magnussen is an appalling driver - you can add not seeing either him or Max in F1 again to my wishlist above....

[Ataxia]

Let's be honest, everyone thought F1 was boring back then. And in 30 years time, we'll have us lot whinging that nobody goes wheel to wheel like Verstappen and Ricciardo do.

Who genuinely deserved their finishing position there? Perez, Leclerc, Sainz. I think that's about it. Very few of the others earnt anything through - remember this? - overtaking anyone.

I don't really see the difference between this and the litany of engine-go-pop races we had years ago. People gaining artificially-high positions as a result of mechanical attrition is exactly the same kind of thing.

(Also please go find me some overtaking stats on the 1970s/80s because every re-run I've ever watched has been the racing equivalent of blue-balls. Sure, they get close, but nobody actually overtakes in those things.)

It's great that we've got an interesting circuit (and Baku is f*cking beautiful, by the way, so I can see why F1 likes coming here) that genuinely punishes people. The argument of "it was better in my day" is just based on fallacies. If F1, god forbid, WAS exactly the same as it was 30 years ago, the complaint would be that it hasn't moved on.

Honestly, just buckle up and enjoy what you have now. Because it's jolly bloody good.

[Barbazza]

Honestly, just buckle up and enjoy what you have now. Because it's jolly bloody good.

I do try, honestly. And it just doesn't feel as much fun. Maybe it is the rose tinted glasses, but sometimes that's just how it is. You can keep telling me I'm 'wrong' if you like but it won't make much difference!

[Barbazza]

Also, for clarification, my 'era' if you like begins in the early 80s so slightly pre-dates the turbo 'bang' era you were referring to.

[Rob Dylan]

Well that was certainly an emotional roller-coaster, to use a cliché. I loved every minute of it, except for the last two laps when Bottas' tyre blew up, which was horribly depressing. Bring it on again in Barcelona, though I expect that race will probably be very sedate in comparison!

Also, call me a cynic if you will, but if we were to take the actions of Max Verstappen with regards to his on-track driving, and his ability to work in a team, is his performance not so much worse than Daniil Kvyat in 2016? In case you don't recall, Kvyat at least had a bathplugging podium by four rounds in!

[Ataxia]

Honestly, just buckle up and enjoy what you have now. Because it's jolly bloody good.

I do try, honestly. And it just doesn't feel as much fun. Maybe it is the rose tinted glasses, but sometimes that's just how it is. You can keep telling me I'm 'wrong' if you like but it won't make much difference!

I never said your opinion was wrong, but it's an ever-changing world. What was relevant 30, 40 years ago isn't how things are now. Life evolves, tides change, etc...

Anyway, moving on...

Also, call me a cynic if you will, but if we were to take the actions of Max Verstappen with regards to his on-track driving, and his ability to work in a team, is his performance not so much worse than Daniil Kvyat in 2016? In case you don't recall, Kvyat at least had a bathplugging podium by four rounds in!

Well, I'm going to agree here, and using Red Bull's precedent there should be at least some punishment levied (I feel that both were at fault, but Verstappen's been absolute dire all season so far). But Red Bull can't afford to bench him, because who's next in the queue? Sainz, who's been lagging behind Hulkenberg all year? Gasly, who's had one good race? Hartley, who's only there because Red Bull didn't have anyone else?

I'm finding it very strange that the ex-Red Bull drivers like Albon and Sette Camara are performing far better than they ever had done in the RB system. Then you've got Ilott and Kari in GP3 looking good, and you start to question the development program's merits...

[tommykl]

I'll bring out this quote I found a while back, paraphrasing, as I don't remember the exact wording:

Lately, we have been receiving much enthusiastic correspondance asking that ITV broadcast motorsport. While we understand that the sport has many supporters, we feel that it would make for poor viewing for the average spectator, as more often than not, the race descends into a procession with very little overtaking.

This quote from one of the higher-ups at ITV could very easily be complaining about modern F1 and justifying ITV not picking up free-to-air coverage once Sky gets exclusive rights. Unfortunately for many arguments, this was published in Motor Sport Magazine in 1971.

I know how easy it is to think that everything was better in one's youth. I largely feel the same about pop music, and I'm only 21, for goodness' sake! But there's a reason that on average, our memories seem better than the current day: we forget the average and downright bad races! Sure, Keke and Gilles were tremendously aggressive and exciting drivers, but for every René Arnoux, there were four Mauro Baldis behind looking far less on-the-limit. We remember the 1979 Dijon fight because it stood out against all other moments, not because every lap of every race had the same racing quality.

As for drivers fighting cars, it's simply the progress of engineering, and as someone finishing his studies to take part in the creation of these cars, I find it borderline insulting to hear that most advances of the past 35 years are suddenly invalid because it's harder for drivers to make mistakes. We sincerely apologise for doing our jobs of making your fast cars go faster in a series where being fastest matters most.

It is truly confusing to attempt to understand what the fan hivemind wants from F1, overtaking-wise. There has to be overtaking, but none of it can be in straight lines, because that's boring. In fact, no one's overtaking because everyone's saving fuel, so bring back refuelling! After, the real problem is too much emphasis on strategy, let's just have drivers constantly on low fuel and pushing at 100%, so why not add one more element of strat-oh, wait. Never mind, the problem's actually with the tyres! They last too long, there's not any element of saving them anymore, like in the Good Ole Days, and there's only ever one strategy. Except they can't actually degrade, because then everyone has to save tyres instead of going flat out all the time, and that's not real racing. You know what? Forget everything, just give us more overtaking. But, y'know, not too much, we don't want F1 to become like *shudders* NASCAR...

[UncreativeUsername37]

This race was both filled with action and something people will look back on fondly. Although Bottas' retirement was sad. But if the Mercedes' stories were swapped, I would've loved it. I'm just cheering for Bottas. Long live Baku.

[dr-baker]

If you want crazy, action-packed races every race, you have BTCC/touring cars. If you want future technology in cars, you have FE. If you want to make a show out of the sport, a bit of razzmatzz, you have IndyCar/Indy 500/NASCAR. F1? Nostalgia is all I can think of, as this thread seems to be demonstrating.

[IceG]

F1 is an open-wheel, open cockpit format that since the 80s has majored on the effects of aerodynamics. Those characteristics are embedded in the technical regulations of F1.

Running cars designed for circuits that let the interpretation and implementation of those regulations differentiate between the better and the best (Spa, Silverstone, Monza, etc.) on street circuits, where wheels get knocked off on walls and overtaking is constrained by narrow streets*, just seems wrong to me. Especially as, these days, the motivation is spectacle and money rather than a test of excellence of driving and engineering, and crashing has replaced unreliability as the stochastic factor. Perhaps that is me being nostalgic?

Yes Baku was exciting and great fun to watch, but it was not what F1 used to be about.

* I know, I know...

[CarloSpace]

PS I'm sure we can agree on this one, how dreadful were the graphics again? The tower on the left getting confused again, wrong drivers being called, and no championship positions shown at any point (Mind you, Sky haven't bothered with that yet either)

Getting better each round though. And the way they incorporated the graphics on top of the halo on the onboard shots was fantastic!

[tommykl]

F1 is an open-wheel, open cockpit format that since the 80s has majored on the effects of aerodynamics. Those characteristics are embedded in the technical regulations of F1.

Running cars designed for circuits that let the interpretation and implementation of those regulations differentiate between the better and the best (Spa, Silverstone, Monza, etc.) on street circuits, where wheels get knocked off on walls and overtaking is constrained by narrow streets*, just seems wrong to me. Especially as, these days, the motivation is spectacle and money rather than a test of excellence of driving and engineering, and crashing has replaced unreliability as the stochastic factor. Perhaps that is me being nostalgic?

Yes Baku was exciting and great fun to watch, but it was not what F1 used to be about.

* I know, I know...

I have to say I disagree on this. The 1970s and 1980s (widely acknowledged as "the golden age") had plenty of tight and twisty street circuits that caused many accidents. If anything, the era between 1992 and 2007, when Monaco was the only true street circuit, is the exception rather than the rule.

[Ferrim]

Hi all,

Having a wife, a kid and a job has definitely taken a toll on my activity on these forums, but I'm happy to see that the amount of postings seems to have gone up since the last time I was around.

So, hi everyone

[yannicksamlad]

F1 is an open-wheel, open cockpit format that since the 80s has majored on the effects of aerodynamics....
Running cars designed for circuits that let the interpretation and implementation of those regulations differentiate between the better and the best (Spa, Silverstone, Monza, etc.) on street circuits, where wheels get knocked off on walls and overtaking is constrained by narrow streets*, just seems wrong to me. Especially as, these days, the motivation is spectacle and money rather than a test of excellence of driving and engineering, and crashing has replaced unreliability as the stochastic factor. Perhaps that is me being nostalgic?

Yes Baku was exciting and great fun to watch, but it was not what F1 used to be about.

* I know, I know...

I'll disagree as well with some of this - the tech regs may be 'freer' in relation to suspension and steering, and strength of such parts , but surely the whole point is that while aerodynamics is a key determinant of competitiveness generally, nevertheless the cars have to be designed for all the circuits that they will compete on throughout the world championship.
We shouldn't pick the circuits that suit one performance aspect just because we think that aspect 'should' be the 'right' one to determine results. Instead a healthy diversification of circuit types - smooth, bumpy, tight , twisty, fast etc is best. (A championship on ovals seems to lack something ..in my view) . A world championship of the best drivers and teams should set a variety of tests. And variety also keeps up the interest. 21 races around fast Silverstone -like tracks might not throw up many different winners.

Perhaps the dissatisfaction with Baku comes from the fact that its design seems to create the sort of incidents that make the result something of a lottery dependent upon whether the safety car comes out at the right time, and whether you've been hit/picked up a puncture etc... and I do agree that Baku seems determined to interrupt the racing , since they can't get debris and broken down cars off the track quickly without a safety car, and the track seems to invite incidents ( although drivers must be blamed to some extent).
I'd agree that Baku is a bit questionable - the first part of the start/finish straight is a flat out sweeps that prevent overtaking and require no skill ..so adds little, and similarly the stretch from the castle to the downhill sharp left (T15?) seems to simply offer the chance of a massive accident if something (or Brendon) goes slightly wrong, but without testing a modern F1 driver who is flat out through the section. I suppose in an F2 it might be different, but ..isnt Baku actually dangerous with some of these flat out sweeps- and there's no skill for the F1 driver glued to the road.

Or maybe you disagree?