2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

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Pick your Reject of the Race candidate!

Poll ended at 08 Apr 2023, 06:24

Driving Standards
6
25%
Ferrari
0
No votes
Logan Sargeant
3
13%
Pierre Gasly
0
No votes
Race Control
15
63%
 
Total votes: 24

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TomPryce
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2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by TomPryce »

1) The restart procedures/stewards/artificial drama creation. I feel awful for Gasly, because the idea of a standing start was appalling.

2) Williams. Threw away potentially incredibly points, both from Albon's off and Sergeant being nowhere.

EDIT: I didnt pick Ferrari as... well... its now form.
Last edited by TomPryce on 02 Apr 2023, 08:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by RAK »

1) Race Control: I thought we might finally get a race where they weren't the obvious candidate, but then they decided, "WE NASCAR NOW BOIZ" with an inexplicable red flag where the restart just made for more chaos.

2) Ferrari: During a race weekend where Red Bull did as much as possible to put themselves into a position of vulnerability, the only Ferrari on the podium was the sparkling white wine.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Meatwad »

FIA/Race control/Liberty Media: Another race where their decisions were questionable. The first red flag was unnecessary and costly for drivers like Russell and Pérez. The second one felt even more like it was for the show (a pattern lately) and led to a hilariously rejectful restart. Then a really long wait for one lap behind the safety car – they might as well just have gone back to the order before the third restart, the only significant difference was Alpine losing all their points (which felt pretty unfair).

Dishonorable mention to Ferrari for being Ferrari.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Aerond »

Sargeant & Magnussen for me
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by rachel1990 »

1. Race Control. Was it a coincidence that Masi was in the paddock this weekend after this race. Because this was a Masi spicing up the show race. When Charlie Whiting was still with us, a red flag was beyond rare. Now its put out to spice up the show. Total joke

2. Ferrari. Talking of total jokes. Teams in full red have been a joke for a while now. Liverpool and Ferrari. Coincidence? I think not (and I happen to be a Liverpool fan). Last season the clowns were on the pitwall. This season the clowns are still on the pitwall. But the drivers are now joining in.

Hm- Pierre Gasly. He must be getting that race ban now.
Hm-George Russell's luck. His whinging teammate gets the luck despite being slower. George does everything right. The team let's him down. Again.
HM Valterri Bottas. Again Zhou had the beating of him. Worrying times for the Finn.
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Batty
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Batty »

I don't think the red flags were a problem. There was lot of debris when Albon spun, there was metal and debris and a tire when K-Mag hit the wall per the team radios and the last one was literally just chaos everywhere.

It was confusing as heck but eventually the fairest thing was done in the end to finish the rules. Stewards I don't think did anything wrong. The rules are an issue but they followed it properly. Not even rejectful but the rules need to be looked at

Also the drivers drove pretty all over the shop which caused all these. Albon lost his rear, K-Mag hit a wall and Sainz turned around Alonso, Logan whamped Nyck and Gasly veered into his teammate. At some point, can't blame race control when drivers keep on messing up lol.

My nominations:

1. Pierre Gasly - After re-joining the track, decided to look left and veer right, right into his teammate getting Alpine 0 points and a possible race ban after collecting all those pen points

2. Logan Sergeant - A perfectly perfected rejectful rookie crash into De Vries and basically struggled the whole race.

S/O Carlos Sainz for turning around Alonso and getting Ferrari 0 points. K-Mag for hitting the wall.
Last edited by Batty on 02 Apr 2023, 08:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by mario »

Meatwad wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:10 FIA/Race control/Liberty Media: Another race where their decisions were questionable. The first red flag was unnecessary and costly for drivers like Russell and Pérez. The second one felt even more like it was for the show (a pattern lately) and led to a hilariously rejectful restart. Then a really long wait for one lap behind the safety car – they might as well just have gone back to the order before the third restart, the only significant difference was Alpine losing all their points (which felt pretty unfair).

Dishonorable mention to Ferrari for being Ferrari.
The idea of red flagging for a late restart to ensure that a race doesn't then finish under a safety car is a change that was introduced entirely "for the show" - I suppose the question is whether it might be seen as a failure by Liberty Media when it has done what they wanted it to, which is to create a lot of fuss and debate over the move. It's a stupid attitude and an abuse of infrastructure that is supposed to be for safety, not trying to artificially mix things up, but one that seems to be being encouraged because it generates a lot of media attention.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by noiceinmydrink »

Oh boy.

So, the first red flag was completely unnecessary. Gravel on the circuit should be taken seriously of course but there was no reason why they couldn't get the sweepers out once the cars were bunched up - even if cars picked it up in the interim it was very very unlikely to cause a puncture and would have been scrubbed off under the safety car anyway. I thought that was the worst of it but it wasn't nearly as offensive as what was to come in the final stages.

No question - the chaos resulting from the last start was inevitable. You've got a lot of drivers who are absolutely going to over the line with a standing start and a couple of laps left and we already know that drivers can't police themselves in these situations. What Race Control did was not only absurdly silly, it was also outrageously reckless and dangerous. There is no point doing a standing start in these situations when half the field are going to bump into each other. I disagreed when it happened in Baku '21 even if we got away with that one, and I strongly disagreed in the instance of Abu Dhabi '21 as well - can you imagine the shitstorm that would have occured if they restarted for the last lap only for another crash to happen on the startline/first corner and ending the race in the pitlane? Nevermind being behind the safety car, they would have finished in parc ferme!

A race like this was a long time coming after a few years of some silly session stoppages. Before we got deep in the 2010s, I was an advocate for more red flags because there was several incidents in the 2000s that really should have been red flagged and we got to a point where I think we struck a good balance. But now this has become another symptom of the instant gratification culture that this sport is falling victim to more intensely these days. F1 needs to be more accepting of races finishing under the safety car - this trend of throwing reds with abandon only serves to make the prior stages of the race an utterly meaningless waste of time. No, it's not the most exciting end to the race - but it means the right people are in the right positions when the flag falls.

Instead, we got this. Complete rubbish. Absolutely shameful.

Slam dunk, no doubt, Race Control are the winning losers here - no other suggestion will do.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by IceG »

(1) Race control for sure. So many options for red flag/safety car/VSC but somehow when it is near the end of a race the rules seem to make each decision and the following outcome worse. The teams are going to be demanding a rewrite surely?

(2) Teams with names starting with Alf/Alph - never looked competitive bur somehow lucked into points finishes
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by FalconCapelli »

Race Control and Gasly, he has mauled Ocon and ofc Carlos Sainz
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Vassago »

1. Race Control - Is it still F1 or NASCAR already? Just a total clown show. And we had to listen to Karun Chandhok talking about what he thinks is in the rules where red flag instead of SC finish is not part of the rules. It was fitting the race ended under caution anyway :dance:

2. David Croft - Sky was bending over backwards how to sell this GWC 'excitement'. Croft has totally lost it to the point he was getting excited over Tsunoda 'breaking record of most 11th place finishes in a row' (like who gives a damn?) only for Button to tell him he's clearly wrong due to Sainz penalty. Nice going.

The last five laps after Magnussen's crash was such a Reject farce the rest doesn't even matter IMO.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Miguel98 »

1. Logan Sargeant - The type of crash deserving to show up in a Youtube of compilation of dumb crashes 10 years down the line. Shades of Rosset piling into the mess of Spa 98.

2. F1's search for Instant gratification - I know engagement generates money (long live capitalism), but Liberty (and the FIA, if they were competent, should hammer this crap) *really* needs to work the rules for these situations. I'm not keen on the green/white/checkers(wreckers), although I can see at times where they make sense. But I rather finish behind the SC than this.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by James1978 »

Nothing can trump "the farce at the end" but DHMs to Sargeant (yes that was dumb and he sounds like the next Scott Speed given his colourful language), Russell's luck (2 Mercs in there could have maybe done something against Max), Ferrari, and whoever (probably Crofty) who said that was the most championships on a podium. Spain 1993 had 14!!
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Ducktanian »

Oh god where do we begin.

Pierre Gasly - Gasly absolutely threw away a great result for him and the team with the Lap 56 restart. Firstly, he goes in too deep into Turn 1 and is very lucky to not hit Alonso (Sainz hits him instead) so he gets away with it, but then he decides to immediately rejoin in front of a group of cars and is lucky not to cause further collisions with Ocon and a Haas having to take evading action and nearly having incidents with the nearby McLarens. Again, he gets lucky there. BUT THEN he decides to lazily drift to the right not looking in his mirrors, essentially shoving Ocon into the wall and bringing out the 3rd Red Flag. Absolutely appalling, and deserves his race ban if he gets it.

Logan Sergeant - Pretty much what Miguel said.

Ferrari - Obligatory nomination due to NIL POINTS.

The First Two Red Flags/Race Control - The 3rd one was the only one I'd say was somewhat necessary. But as others have stated the other 2 are highly questionable.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by mario »

noiceinmydrink wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:49 Oh boy.

So, the first red flag was completely unnecessary. Gravel on the circuit should be taken seriously of course but there was no reason why they couldn't get the sweepers out once the cars were bunched up - even if cars picked it up in the interim it was very very unlikely to cause a puncture and would have been scrubbed off under the safety car anyway. I thought that was the worst of it but it wasn't nearly as offensive as what was to come in the final stages.

No question - the chaos resulting from the last start was inevitable. You've got a lot of drivers who are absolutely going to over the line with a standing start and a couple of laps left and we already know that drivers can't police themselves in these situations. What Race Control did was not only absurdly silly, it was also outrageously reckless and dangerous. There is no point doing a standing start in these situations when half the field are going to bump into each other. I disagreed when it happened in Baku '21 even if we got away with that one, and I strongly disagreed in the instance of Abu Dhabi '21 as well - can you imagine the shitstorm that would have occured if they restarted for the last lap only for another crash to happen on the startline/first corner and ending the race in the pitlane? Nevermind being behind the safety car, they would have finished in parc ferme!

A race like this was a long time coming after a few years of some silly session stoppages. Before we got deep in the 2010s, I was an advocate for more red flags because there was several incidents in the 2000s that really should have been red flagged and we got to a point where I think we struck a good balance. But now this has become another symptom of the instant gratification culture that this sport is falling victim to more intensely these days. F1 needs to be more accepting of races finishing under the safety car - this trend of throwing reds with abandon only serves to make the prior stages of the race an utterly meaningless waste of time. No, it's not the most exciting end to the race - but it means the right people are in the right positions when the flag falls.

Instead, we got this. Complete rubbish. Absolutely shameful.

Slam dunk, no doubt, Race Control are the winning losers here - no other suggestion will do.
And, to add to things, Haas have now officially launched a protest on the ground that the grid was in the wrong order when the restart took place. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... SJOdd.html

Basically, the argument is over what was the last point at which the running order could be clearly defined - which could only increase the farce if Haas did successfully demonstrate that race control made a mistake.

I should also add that the stewards have asked for a representative from the Australian Grand Prix Corporation to appear before them: according to the summons, the complaint is that fans were allowed inside of the circuit boundaries before the race had officially ended.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Ciaran »

I can't really think of anyone other than Race Control.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Batty wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:43 I don't think the red flags were a problem. There was lot of debris when Albon spun, there was metal and debris and a tire when K-Mag hit the wall per the team radios and the last one was literally just chaos everywhere.

It was confusing as heck but eventually the fairest thing was done in the end to finish the rules. Stewards I don't think did anything wrong. The rules are an issue but they followed it properly. Not even rejectful but the rules need to be looked at

Also the drivers drove pretty all over the shop which caused all these. Albon lost his rear, K-Mag hit a wall and Sainz turned around Alonso, Logan whamped Nyck and Gasly veered into his teammate. At some point, can't blame race control when drivers keep on messing up lol.

My nominations:

1. Pierre Gasly - After re-joining the track, decided to look left and veer right, right into his teammate getting Alpine 0 points and a possible race ban after collecting all those pen points

2. Logan Sergeant - A perfectly perfected rejectful rookie crash into De Vries and basically struggled the whole race.

S/O Carlos Sainz for turning around Alonso and getting Ferrari 0 points. K-Mag for hitting the wall.

I agree.

Some of us may not like the rules, but it appears they played it by the book. People can certainly continue to nominate race control for following the rules, but it’s a little weird.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by dr-baker »

James1978 wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 10:06 Nothing can trump "the farce at the end" but DHMs to Sargeant (yes that was dumb and he sounds like the next Scott Speed given his colourful language), Russell's luck (2 Mercs in there could have maybe done something against Max), Ferrari, and whoever (probably Crofty) who said that was the most championships on a podium. Spain 1993 had 14!!
But at the time of the podium taking place in Spain 1993, only 6 of those championships had already been won. Of the drivers on today's podium, Max will inevitably win this year's championship, and it's likely that Lewis and Max will win a few more between them beyond this year...
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Londoner »

1. Formula 1. I cannot believe the stupidity that took place at Albert Park today. At risk of sounding like an old fart, red flags used to occur maybe once a season at best, and usually only for hideous first lap accidents (Britain 1999), huge accidents after the 75% mark (Brazil 2003), or for simply undriveable conditions (Malaysia 2009). I am sick of Liberty Media and the FIA wielding the red flag as a tool to spice up the action, calling a race stoppage for gravel on the track is something not even NASCAR would consider. The mess at the end has been a long time coming, and just highlights the utter mess that is the FIA's rulebook.

And that's before we get to the frankly amateurish driving on display during that ill-fated second restart. Sainz, Gasly and Sargeant all looked like 1998-era Ricardo Rosset tribute acts out there. It makes me pine for the days of Hakkinen/Schumacher. I often troll the Discord by stating this is the most talentless F1 field ever, but that restart makes you wonder if there is a kernel of truth in there. The worst thing is, up until Magnussen's crash this was a perfectly acceptable and pleasant race (first red flag notwithstanding). Now it'll be remembered as another embarassing shitshow in the record books. :facepalm:

2. Kevin Magnussen. An utterly bizarre retirement which was the catalyst of the above events.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by dj_vicious »

1. FIA Restart Procedure: Slam dunk. There were two laps left guys, call the race and count back a lap. This comedy show was bound to happen.

2. Charles Leclerc. A lazy, avoidable lap 1 collision. This weekend Charles was doing his best Damon Hill 1999 impression.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by kronatherm »

1. Gasly; Sainz; Sargeant Whatever race control do regarding restarts etc. is secondary to enforcing good driving standards.
2. Leclerc We all want Stroll to disappear but he's not going to leave F1 halfway through a corner
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by mario »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 13:43 I agree.

Some of us may not like the rules, but it appears they played it by the book. People can certainly continue to nominate race control for following the rules, but it’s a little weird.
Well, even then, only to some extent - the protest by Haas over the restart procedure was on the grounds that they should have used the running order from the second safety car line, and they have a point given that was the point last used as a reference when having to restart a race almost immediately (at the 2022 British GP).

However, the justification used was that "14. This determination needed to be done in the context of a timed race event and therefore the decision of Race Control and the Race Director needed to be made promptly; with the exercise of appropriate discretion and by using the most appropriate information available to them at the time.

15. In the circumstances, based on what we heard from the FIA representatives and from Haas, we considered that this was in fact done appropriately by the Race Director in this instance and therefore dismiss the protest."

It does kind of sound like the stewards were excusing the race director for focussing on making a quick decision, particularly as it doesn't explain why it was "appropriate" for the race director to pick a different reference to the one that would have been used in the past.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Alextrax52 »

Race Control: The Americanization of F1 continues and not in a good way. Red Flags used to be a rare occurrence and only when necessary. Now it feels like they just get thrown around for the sake of “the show”. Sport first, entertainment second please.

Kevin Magnussen: That crash was just so random. Topped off a dire weekend where he was completely obliterated by Hulkenberg

DHM’s

Pierre Gasly: Undid the aforementioned good work with a simply ridiculous attempt at rejoining the track, bonus points for taking out his own teammate. Lucky to avoid any more license points for his ban.

Ferrari: Dominated the race last year, a big fat 0 this year.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Wallio »

While I really, really want to nominate the supposed "best drivers in the world" for making a routine restart look like a bathplugging Lemons race (I did chuckle at the stewards ruling that while normally they did leniency on starts/restarts, Sainz move was just SO BAD they had no choice) there can actually only be one nomination:

Ted Kravitz - for his nonsensical, biased, and embarrassingly unprofessional rant about Micahel Masi during Free Practice. 2021 is over Teddy Boy, shut the hell up and move on.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Wallio wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 16:04 Ted Kravitz - for his nonsensical, biased, and embarrassingly unprofessional rant about Micahel Masi during Free Practice. 2021 is over Teddy Boy, shut the hell up and move on.
I only heard his comments during the race and thought they were a little weird and over the top, but if there was an additional extended rant about Masi, I second this nomination.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by cg12 »

1 - The FIA/Race Control/The insistence on ending a race under green flags/stewards decisions

Seriously, what on earth was that race? In previous years neither of the first two incidents would have warranted a red flag, they would have been covered under safety car and nobody would have complained. If there's one thing I can't stand about F1 atm, it's the obsession with trying to make everything entertaining at the expense of sporting integrity. As for the stewarding decisions, while Sainz fully deserved a penalty, he can certainly feel aggrieved that only he was penalised when loads of others should have been too. The stewards have effectively rendered the penalty points system pointless by being too afraid to give Gasly points for his incident.

2 - Driving standards

Some of the driving on display really was woeful. We were lucky not to see a huge crash before the first red flag restart, and wtf was Magnussen doing launching his car across the gravel like that? The second restart was just as much of a shambles too. Quite what Sargeant and the Alpines were doing I really do not know.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Forti »

The restart and its perpetrators, Race Control
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Rob Dylan »

Considering the incident leading to the end of the race as it was, we have a mighty special five candidates this time for you to vote on for Reject of the Race. Let us know who wins! :dance:
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by yannicksamlad »

Race control. They always had the option to do safety car restart..but chose 'the show'.
And then had to work out the consequences of their choice. Which took ages
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Butterfox »

I personally don't really see the issue with race control, it's the drivers responsability to take the first corner properly.
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Re: 2023 Austrialian GP ROTR

Post by Londoner »

Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
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