Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

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noiceinmydrink
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Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by noiceinmydrink »

It's been revealed accoring to Autosport that Massa is looking to challenge the result of the 2008 Singapore GP, as aul' Bernie has stated that he and Max Mosely, FIA president at the time, knew of the events that took place at least before the end of the 2008 season, which was within the time allowed for action to be taken.

If Massa is successful and if (very big and unlikely if) it is overturned, the likely scenario (not that I'm aware of any precident, in or out of F1) is that the race is delcared null and voided. If this occurs, Felipe Massa would end up as 2008 World Champion.

What do you guys think? Is there bones to it? I'd imagine unlikely if Mercedes didn't get anywhere over the result over TRWNSNBW.
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by Wallio »

Ted Kravitz may commit seppuku live on air if this happens.

But no, nothing will come of this, nor should it. And this is from someone who is not at all a Hamilton fan.
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James1978
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by James1978 »

I saw that initially on Facebook and though "Pah, that's ludicrous, Autosport or it didn't happen!". Then I flick over to Autosport and lo and behold, there it is!!

The debate should stop at "Ferrari might have just as easily botched the pitstop under normal green flag conditions" and go no further.
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mario
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by mario »

noiceinmydrink wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 13:18 It's been revealed accoring to Autosport that Massa is looking to challenge the result of the 2008 Singapore GP, as aul' Bernie has stated that he and Max Mosely, FIA president at the time, knew of the events that took place at least before the end of the 2008 season, which was within the time allowed for action to be taken.

If Massa is successful and if (very big and unlikely if) it is overturned, the likely scenario (not that I'm aware of any precident, in or out of F1) is that the race is delcared null and voided. If this occurs, Felipe Massa would end up as 2008 World Champion.

What do you guys think? Is there bones to it? I'd imagine unlikely if Mercedes didn't get anywhere over the result over TRWNSNBW.
As others note, the likelihood of his going anywhere seems rather remote.

For a start, there is a basic question of whether there is a court that Massa could possibly take this case to - the Court of Arbitration for Sport won't take the case, because the FIA does not fall within their remit. Under the terms that Massa agreed to compete under when racing in F1, he also agreed that the International Court of Arbitration is the final arbiter, and Massa's appeal to the ICA is currently expected to be invalid.

Furthermore, you have the issue that Massa is basing his claims so far solely on Bernie's statement, and Bernie cannot be described as either a neutral observer or a reliable witness.

Bernie has indicated before that he was rather upset at the criticism that Piquet Sr received for the racist remarks that he made about Hamilton, having tried to downplay the remarks and claiming that Hamilton "should have just brushed it off". Bernie had already said that he did not particularly like Hamilton and has had a number of clashes with him in public, and that relationship seems to have worsened after Piquet Sr's recent heavy fines for his abuse towards Hamilton.

Asides from personal motivations to stir trouble, it's also not as if Bernie has had a reputation for being a particularly honest individual - in fact, it's pretty much the polar opposite. As a witness, the reliability of his testimony is rather questionable at best - not to mention that the fraud case he is facing has raised questions about whether he is even medically fit to provide testimony in a legal case.
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by Wallio »

mario wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 18:28 Asides from personal motivations to stir trouble, it's also not as if Bernie has had a reputation for being a particularly honest individual - in fact, it's pretty much the polar opposite. As a witness, the reliability of his testimony is rather questionable at best - not to mention that the fraud case he is facing has raised questions about whether he is even medically fit to provide testimony in a legal case.
I remember being all excited to read No Angel because it was so hyped because Bernie was actually involved in it (he provided the title for one) but it got so many things wrong, so many easily checkable facts wrong, that it was a slog to finish it.
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by mario »

Wallio wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 18:34
mario wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 18:28 Asides from personal motivations to stir trouble, it's also not as if Bernie has had a reputation for being a particularly honest individual - in fact, it's pretty much the polar opposite. As a witness, the reliability of his testimony is rather questionable at best - not to mention that the fraud case he is facing has raised questions about whether he is even medically fit to provide testimony in a legal case.
I remember being all excited to read No Angel because it was so hyped because Bernie was actually involved in it (he provided the title for one) but it got so many things wrong, so many easily checkable facts wrong, that it was a slog to finish it.
Bower certainly was criticised for being a sloppy and lazy writer in that respect (and seemingly not for the first time), but there were some wondering if Bernie's involvement may have also contributed to a "creative reinterpretation" of past events.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

15 years down the line? You're wasting your time Felipe.
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by CoopsII »

Felipe baby, if the unthinkable happened and you were awarded the 2008 title, what then? Apart from being the only WDC to miss half the next season due to being twatted by a bit of Barrichellos car it'll make no difference to anything. Most of the current F1 viewership, raised on Drive To Survive, won't have even heard of you, they'd probably think you're related to the guy who messed up Hamiltons title the other year.

As Elsa told you, let it go....
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

There isn't much to say that hasn't already been said, but I'm still confused by the "statute of limitations" rule he seems to be citing here. If them knowing about it before the ceremony extended it, surely it would only be extended until the next ceremony? Which if they didn't do anything about it by the end of 2009, then it would surely be moot, right?
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mario
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Re: Massa looking into legal options over 2008 Singapore GP

Post by mario »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 18:28 There isn't much to say that hasn't already been said, but I'm still confused by the "statute of limitations" rule he seems to be citing here. If them knowing about it before the ceremony extended it, surely it would only be extended until the next ceremony? Which if they didn't do anything about it by the end of 2009, then it would surely be moot, right?
That's the thing - most jurisdictions would say that the statutes of limitation has passed a long, long time ago and would not accept the case. What Massa is effectively trying to do is to find an alternative jurisdiction where he might still be able to lodge a case.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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