2023 Discussion Thread

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dr-baker
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Paul Hayes wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 13:56 Poor old Hulkenberg. Had Verstappen made it into sector two he'd have been on the podium at last!
If the whole field had made it to the next timing sector by the time the red flag was thrown, so that everybody's position could be established...
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Yes, that's true, I got over-excited!
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by rachel1990 »

following today's race- someone posted a reply to a tweet about the abnormal amount of red flags now in f1 that I made

From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning of 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.- race-related red flags. Liberty Media’s drive for ‘bettering the show’ clearly on display

I can only think of about 3 occasions since 2020 when a reg flag was necessary- Bahrain 2020- Grosjean. Last year's British Gp and maybe the end of Baku 2021 when Verstappen crashed out.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

rachel1990 wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 20:25 following today's race- someone posted a reply to a tweet about the abnormal amount of red flags now in f1 that I made

From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning of 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.- race-related red flags. Liberty Media’s drive for ‘bettering the show’ clearly on display

I can only think of about 3 occasions since 2020 when a reg flag was necessary- Bahrain 2020- Grosjean. Last year's British Gp and maybe the end of Baku 2021 when Verstappen crashed out.
Two of those red flags were weather related red flags, as that total of 17 includes the 2021 Belgian GP and 2022 Japanese GP.

As for other incidents that resulted in red flags, Mick Schumacher's crash in Monaco 2022, where the car split in half, surely has to be on that list? Similarly, there was also the multi-car crash on the main straight during the 2020 Tuscan GP when they tried to restart from a safety car - I'm not sure how those would have been resolved under just a safety car.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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rachel1990 wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 20:25 following today's race- someone posted a reply to a tweet about the abnormal amount of red flags now in f1 that I made

From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning of 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.- race-related red flags. Liberty Media’s drive for ‘bettering the show’ clearly on display

I can only think of about 3 occasions since 2020 when a reg flag was necessary- Bahrain 2020- Grosjean. Last year's British Gp and maybe the end of Baku 2021 when Verstappen crashed out.
to judge this properly you'd have to go back and watch all the reasons why red flags were thrown, and incidents where they could have been thrown but weren't (Fuji 2007 comes to mind, far too wet for racing but they followed the SC around for several laps).
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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If I had to guess their criteria for when to throw a red flag, it would be any time there is any debris or a car would be tough to recover. This is just from memory, but since the end of 2021 they pretty much throw a red if there was contact or the car is in a tough place to recover with cars on the track. I understand that a lot of us don't like the prevalence of red flags, but who am I to argue when the stated reasoning is for safety. Cars behind a safety car are not a truly safe condition (just remember Jules).

On the other thread someone mentioned that the gravel could have been cleaned up under a safety car condition. But why would a volunteer track worker be wanting to run out there to sweep etc. with cars coming by every two and a half minutes? I have a feeling that from now on we'll only be seeing the safety car or VSC when there's a mechanical failure or minor damage (and the car is in an easy-to-recover location) and everything else will be a red flag. I don't enjoy red flags, they stop the action and can artificially upend the strategy, but complaining too hard about it is a little like whinging when the flight is delayed because they had to de-ice the wings.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by noiceinmydrink »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: 03 Apr 2023, 13:13 If I had to guess their criteria for when to throw a red flag, it would be any time there is any debris or a car would be tough to recover. This is just from memory, but since the end of 2021 they pretty much throw a red if there was contact or the car is in a tough place to recover with cars on the track. I understand that a lot of us don't like the prevalence of red flags, but who am I to argue when the stated reasoning is for safety. Cars behind a safety car are not a truly safe condition (just remember Jules).

On the other thread someone mentioned that the gravel could have been cleaned up under a safety car condition. But why would a volunteer track worker be wanting to run out there to sweep etc. with cars coming by every two and a half minutes? I have a feeling that from now on we'll only be seeing the safety car or VSC when there's a mechanical failure or minor damage (and the car is in an easy-to-recover location) and everything else will be a red flag. I don't enjoy red flags, they stop the action and can artificially upend the strategy, but complaining too hard about it is a little like whinging when the flight is delayed because they had to de-ice the wings.
I understand where you coming from but if we're going to go the safety route then where does it end? You could make the same argument if a car breaks down, any time a marshall is on the track there is always going to be some element of risk involved - if we're maximising safety then you might as well throw a red anytime a car breaks down or a rogue front wing is on the track.

I should note however that Jules' accident was under double waved yellows, not under safety car and that was under truly appalling conditions wheras Australia was dry as bone - so that comparison doesn't hold up in my opinion.

At the end of the day it's about making sensible comprimises. I don't accept any argument that supports the idea that the first two red flags were sensible comprimises and I would argue that the second one created an even more dangerous situation. Going forward, I would like to see the WEC system of slow zones being in place for situations like Albon and Magnussen with an appropriate amount of communication from race control to let people know where the dangers are either side of the track, maybe in the future some sort of radar system in the cockpit for stranded vehicles and diggers, and I think we should be more accepting of races ending under safety car conditions.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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mario wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:40
Vassago wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 07:17 Michael Masi is laughing over those nonsense. Expect a MASSIVE shitstorm after this clown show.
By a peculiar twist, Masi was apparently present in the paddock this weekend as a guest of the FIA.
He is involved in the Supercars series which ran at Melbourne as per usual.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Wallio wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 16:11
mario wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:40
Vassago wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 07:17 Michael Masi is laughing over those nonsense. Expect a MASSIVE shitstorm after this clown show.
By a peculiar twist, Masi was apparently present in the paddock this weekend as a guest of the FIA.
He is involved in the Supercars series which ran at Melbourne as per usual.
To a point - whilst he is involved in the V8 Supercars series, Masi seemed to want to make a point about being invited "by the FIA and Formula 1" when asked why he was wondering around the Formula 1 paddock, rather than the V8 Supercars paddock.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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mario wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 18:37
Wallio wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 16:11
mario wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 08:40
By a peculiar twist, Masi was apparently present in the paddock this weekend as a guest of the FIA.
He is involved in the Supercars series which ran at Melbourne as per usual.
To a point - whilst he is involved in the V8 Supercars series, Masi seemed to want to make a point about being invited "by the FIA and Formula 1" when asked why he was wondering around the Formula 1 paddock, rather than the V8 Supercars paddock.
Interesting. Jolyn Palmer on the F1TV feed on Sunday went out of his way to make the exact opposite point and defend Masi being there. I presumed it was in response to Kravitz's tantrum.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Quick question, if a Reject wins a Sprint race are they unrejectified? I wouldn't expect the powers that be to care about such a thing and in the real world, of course, it doesn't really matter but what does matter, I think, is whether a driver who wins a sprint race is counted as a race winner. What if a driver only wins 16 sprint races in their career but no full races?

I believe this will all be academic soon as I have a feeling the full-length Sunday races will soon be a thing of the past. And before anybody says 'impossible' you only have to look at a few of the 'impossible' things that have been brought in during the last few years to see that, actually, anything is possible. I'm thinking the race will be split into two, to make it more palatable for the Drive To Survive audience with the shorter attention spans but deeper pockets, with points for each half but more for the second half.

After that, to avoid confusion, the old stats will be sealed off as a historical relic and Liberty will begin compiling new stats for their F1.

You may laugh but lets reconvene in a few years and lets see where we are then....
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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CoopsII wrote: 27 Apr 2023, 07:14 Quick question, if a Reject wins a Sprint race are they unrejectified? I wouldn't expect the powers that be to care about such a thing and in the real world, of course, it doesn't really matter but what does matter, I think, is whether a driver who wins a sprint race is counted as a race winner. What if a driver only wins 16 sprint races in their career but no full races?

I believe this will all be academic soon as I have a feeling the full-length Sunday races will soon be a thing of the past. And before anybody says 'impossible' you only have to look at a few of the 'impossible' things that have been brought in during the last few years to see that, actually, anything is possible. I'm thinking the race will be split into two, to make it more palatable for the Drive To Survive audience with the shorter attention spans but deeper pockets, with points for each half but more for the second half.

After that, to avoid confusion, the old stats will be sealed off as a historical relic and Liberty will begin compiling new stats for their F1.

You may laugh but lets reconvene in a few years and lets see where we are then....
The regulations currently just call it a "sprint session" - it looks like a race event and is handled in a similar way, but it technically isn't officially classified as a race event in it's own right at the moment. Anybody winning the spring event would therefore be the winner of the "sprint session", but technically wouldn't be classified as a race winner.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Not to get too pessimistic as I'm in a good mood today, but I do think, on this subject, that the FIA will at some point "make sprint races count, even in retrospect", as part of a driver's results record. It seems inevitable that in a few years "well of course they're part of the furniture, they should be counted the same."
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Rob Dylan wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 07:52 Not to get too pessimistic as I'm in a good mood today, but I do think, on this subject, that the FIA will at some point "make sprint races count, even in retrospect", as part of a driver's results record. It seems inevitable that in a few years "well of course they're part of the furniture, they should be counted the same."
Well, I guess it depends on how exactly Liberty Media want to play it, because they are the ones largely driving those changes.

I wonder if part of the reason for avoiding calling the sprint events a race in their own right is the terms of the contracts that they signed with the teams. If the sprint events are defined as a race and count towards the official tally of races per season, might that potentially trigger the clauses in the contracts they have with the teams that require increased payments and support for the teams for the number of races passing the threshold of 23 per season?

Whilst the contracts they have with the teams allow for up to 25 races per season, once they go past 23 per season, there were suggestions that Liberty Media needs the teams to approve those additional races and the teams would get a larger cut of the prize money.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Pretty weird to see Verstappen insert himself as the authority on good driving standards, considering his many on-track antics between 2015 and 2021.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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takagi_for_the_win wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 16:33 Pretty weird to see Verstappen insert himself as the authority on good driving standards, considering his many on-track antics between 2015 and 2021.
Effectively, it's now the case that Verstappen is the one with much more to loose by not yielding, whilst other drivers around him now have less to lose and are adopting similar tactics to what he used in that period. It does feel as if perhaps Verstappen is not particularly happy now that the situation has changed and he's on the receiving end of those tactics.

[Edit] On another note, following Perez's victory in Baku, we have Horner making some comments that seem designed to undermine Perez's confidence, not increase it:
“Winning the sprint race yesterday, obviously he got a little bit lucky with the timing of the Safety Car [in the grand prix],” said Horner. “But having got the lead he built close to a four-second lead at one point and controlled the race.

“So he used his opportunity, converted it into a great win. They were pushing each other hard, they were comparing times that they touched the wall the under the podium there. But we let them push all the way through, that was always the plan going into the race.”

“He just needs to do it on a normal track. He’s excelled at street circuits – all his victories, certainly for us, have been at street tracks. It’s the second time he’s won here, he won in Singapore, he won in Monaco, won in Jeddah, so just need to get going on the proper circuits.”
In implying that Perez was "lucky" to win and that he needs to up his performance at "proper circuits" comes across as a bit of a crass way of devaluing his performance.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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mario wrote: 01 May 2023, 08:48
“Winning the sprint race yesterday, obviously he got a little bit lucky with the timing of the Safety Car [in the grand prix],” said Horner. “But having got the lead he built close to a four-second lead at one point and controlled the race.

“So he used his opportunity, converted it into a great win. They were pushing each other hard, they were comparing times that they touched the wall the under the podium there. But we let them push all the way through, that was always the plan going into the race.”

“He just needs to do it on a normal track. He’s excelled at street circuits – all his victories, certainly for us, have been at street tracks. It’s the second time he’s won here, he won in Singapore, he won in Monaco, won in Jeddah, so just need to get going on the proper circuits.”
In implying that Perez was "lucky" to win and that he needs to up his performance at "proper circuits" comes across as a bit of a crass way of devaluing his performance.
Horner living up to his reputation as a total dick.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by noiceinmydrink »

mario wrote: 01 May 2023, 08:48 [Edit] On another note, following Perez's victory in Baku, we have Horner making some comments that seem designed to undermine Perez's confidence, not increase it:
“Winning the sprint race yesterday, obviously he got a little bit lucky with the timing of the Safety Car [in the grand prix],” said Horner. “But having got the lead he built close to a four-second lead at one point and controlled the race.

“So he used his opportunity, converted it into a great win. They were pushing each other hard, they were comparing times that they touched the wall the under the podium there. But we let them push all the way through, that was always the plan going into the race.”

“He just needs to do it on a normal track. He’s excelled at street circuits – all his victories, certainly for us, have been at street tracks. It’s the second time he’s won here, he won in Singapore, he won in Monaco, won in Jeddah, so just need to get going on the proper circuits.”
In implying that Perez was "lucky" to win and that he needs to up his performance at "proper circuits" comes across as a bit of a crass way of devaluing his performance.
I just don't understand this. You can argue he's not wrong, for sure, but what's there to gain in snubbing in away the performance or result of one of your drivers? Do they really feel the need to massage Max's ego in public - because Max doesn't strike me as the kind of person who needs it. It's not like Lewis who needs everyone to think he's some sort of divine figure.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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noiceinmydrink wrote: 02 May 2023, 13:27
mario wrote: 01 May 2023, 08:48 [Edit] On another note, following Perez's victory in Baku, we have Horner making some comments that seem designed to undermine Perez's confidence, not increase it:
“Winning the sprint race yesterday, obviously he got a little bit lucky with the timing of the Safety Car [in the grand prix],” said Horner. “But having got the lead he built close to a four-second lead at one point and controlled the race.

“So he used his opportunity, converted it into a great win. They were pushing each other hard, they were comparing times that they touched the wall the under the podium there. But we let them push all the way through, that was always the plan going into the race.”

“He just needs to do it on a normal track. He’s excelled at street circuits – all his victories, certainly for us, have been at street tracks. It’s the second time he’s won here, he won in Singapore, he won in Monaco, won in Jeddah, so just need to get going on the proper circuits.”
In implying that Perez was "lucky" to win and that he needs to up his performance at "proper circuits" comes across as a bit of a crass way of devaluing his performance.
I just don't understand this. You can argue he's not wrong, for sure, but what's there to gain in snubbing in away the performance or result of one of your drivers? Do they really feel the need to massage Max's ego in public - because Max doesn't strike me as the kind of person who needs it. It's not like Lewis who needs everyone to think he's some sort of divine figure.
On the other hand, some of the comments that Horner made after the sprint race perhaps ended up being revealing in a way that he might not have intended them to be.
“I think he voiced his opinion to George, it’s probably a good idea he left his crash helmet on!"

“But you can understand that, he’s a competitive driver and when you get damage to your car and it affects your race, I’d be disappointed if he was just happy with that. He’s like an elephant, he’ll remember that, he’ll bank that for a while.”
That does seem to be an image that is reinforced by the way in which Verstappen wanted to make a point out of refusing to help Perez out in the 2022 Brazilian GP, and then justifying that with the veiled jabs accusing Perez of deliberately crashing in qualifying for the Monaco GP, around six months earlier.

However, whilst Horner seems to have intended it as a warning to Russell - i.e. don't mess with Max, or it'll come back to bite you - he also, in the process, painted a picture of a driver who holds onto a grudge for a long time and wants to take revenge against somebody whom he perceives as slighting him.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Horner and the whole Red Bull ethos have pretty much gone full-cringe at this point.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

takagi_for_the_win wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 16:33 Pretty weird to see Verstappen insert himself as the authority on good driving standards, considering his many on-track antics between 2015 and 2021.
Yeah, and shouting 'dickhead' after the other guy has walked away isn't the flex he obviously thought it was. It's like he's doing a really weird and weak Senna/Schumacher cosplay, something Hamilton was a little guilty of when he first started out.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

While I do think "what-about-isms" are perfectly valid, and while I do think also that F1 fans have far too short-term a collective memory, I also think George Russell is getting far more off the hook than most other (read: not British, probably not very good-looking) drivers would in his circumstance. The number of incidents he has been involved in since, say, Imola 2021 when he and Bottas hit one another, is not insignificant. What is significant to me is the general lack of responsibility, aside from the occasional forced apology read out by a PR officer three days after the race. I just wish he would grow up and get it out of his system, because before long it might cost somebody a championship.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Rob Dylan wrote: 03 May 2023, 11:31 While I do think "what-about-isms" are perfectly valid, and while I do think also that F1 fans have far too short-term a collective memory, I also think George Russell is getting far more off the hook than most other (read: not British, probably not very good-looking) drivers would in his circumstance. The number of incidents he has been involved in since, say, Imola 2021 when he and Bottas hit one another, is not insignificant. What is significant to me is the general lack of responsibility, aside from the occasional forced apology read out by a PR officer three days after the race. I just wish he would grow up and get it out of his system, because before long it might cost somebody a championship.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Rob Dylan wrote: 03 May 2023, 11:31 While I do think "what-about-isms" are perfectly valid, and while I do think also that F1 fans have far too short-term a collective memory, I also think George Russell is getting far more off the hook than most other (read: not British, probably not very good-looking) drivers would in his circumstance. The number of incidents he has been involved in since, say, Imola 2021 when he and Bottas hit one another, is not insignificant. What is significant to me is the general lack of responsibility, aside from the occasional forced apology read out by a PR officer three days after the race. I just wish he would grow up and get it out of his system, because before long it might cost somebody a championship.
I have said this from day 1. George has literally ZERO self awareness. He is the first one to come off with "bLyMe ThAt WaS sOmE dAnGeRoUs DrIvInG!" But he also caused 3 or 4 first lap incidents last year alone. He also technically never denied blame for the Baku incident, he merely said he had no grip, which as Max pointed out, pretty much no one did at that point. So to then think that someone you acknowledge you hit (albeit unintentionally or not) is going to come up to you afterwards and say "hard fight" is completely clueless. That interview made him look like a total geek. Of course this is the same person who likes to say "what a move!" on the radio for the few and far between passes he makes each Sunday.

But hey, he's British, so here we are. (Do we really not have a shrug emoji?)
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Wallio wrote: 03 May 2023, 19:25
Rob Dylan wrote: 03 May 2023, 11:31 While I do think "what-about-isms" are perfectly valid, and while I do think also that F1 fans have far too short-term a collective memory, I also think George Russell is getting far more off the hook than most other (read: not British, probably not very good-looking) drivers would in his circumstance. The number of incidents he has been involved in since, say, Imola 2021 when he and Bottas hit one another, is not insignificant. What is significant to me is the general lack of responsibility, aside from the occasional forced apology read out by a PR officer three days after the race. I just wish he would grow up and get it out of his system, because before long it might cost somebody a championship.
I have said this from day 1. George has literally ZERO self awareness. He is the first one to come off with "bLyMe ThAt WaS sOmE dAnGeRoUs DrIvInG!" But he also caused 3 or 4 first lap incidents last year alone. He also technically never denied blame for the Baku incident, he merely said he had no grip, which as Max pointed out, pretty much no one did at that point. So to then think that someone you acknowledge you hit (albeit unintentionally or not) is going to come up to you afterwards and say "hard fight" is completely clueless. That interview made him look like a total geek. Of course this is the same person who likes to say "what a move!" on the radio for the few and far between passes he makes each Sunday.

But hey, he's British, so here we are. (Do we really not have a shrug emoji?)
I mean, yeah, but also racing drivers, as a cohort, are not known for their self-awareness or accountability. I'd kinda say it's a part of their charm (if you can call it that). George's geeky demeanor does make his lack of self-awareness seem a little more tone-deaf than most. The last guy I really ever rooted for, Romain GRRRJJJNNN, was pretty much the same, it's just his frenchness took some of the edge off, at least for me.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: 03 May 2023, 21:18 The last guy I really ever rooted for, Romain GRRRJJJNNN, was pretty much the same, it's just his frenchness took some of the edge off, at least for me.
Now that could be. I was not a fan of Romain originally, but much like a bad fungus, he grew on me (ditto Alonso, but for different reasons) so maybe there is hope for George in the future. Which he needs, as IMO he is the most unlikable driver currently (Stroll paying for Twitter Blue aside).
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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RAK wrote: 03 May 2023, 17:23 https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65472770

Bathplug off, Mazepin. I don't want that awful driver anywhere near a Formula One car again.
That's as daft as the Massa one. Even if the sanctions were lifted he's hardly a driver that any team is crying out for. This isn't like football where rich owners are more than happy to overlook the fact that a player is a rapist or a racist as long he scores plenty of goals. Mazepin blew chunks every time he got in the car.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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CoopsII wrote: 04 May 2023, 06:53
RAK wrote: 03 May 2023, 17:23 https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65472770

Bathplug off, Mazepin. I don't want that awful driver anywhere near a Formula One car again.
That's as daft as the Massa one. Even if the sanctions were lifted he's hardly a driver that any team is crying out for. This isn't like football where rich owners are more than happy to overlook the fact that a player is a rapist or a racist as long he scores plenty of goals. Mazepin blew chunks every time he got in the car.
You do wonder whether the challenges to the sanctions are really about wanting to get back into Formula 1, or whether it is more about wanting to create an avenue that would allow his father to bypass some sanctions by channelling money through Nikita and the Formula 1 angle is being used as a smokescreen.

Then again, it could also be related to the talk of Hitech submitting an application to join Formula 1. Hitech used to be partially owned by the Mazepin's, and whilst they ostensibly stepped back following the imposition of sanctions, there have been allegations that they are still indirectly involved with Hitech.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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mario wrote: 04 May 2023, 07:29 Then again, it could also be related to the talk of Hitech submitting an application to join Formula 1. Hitech used to be partially owned by the Mazepin's, and whilst they ostensibly stepped back following the imposition of sanctions, there have been allegations that they are still indirectly involved with Hitech.
I didn't know that part. And let's be honest, Russia will be back in F1 at some point, as unpalatable as it may seem right now.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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I like the idea and execution of this, but I do still wish that drivers would stay with one helmet design throughout their career, or even the generations, like Graham, Damon and Josh Hill.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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The Miami GP just needs to die. It is just so bloody offensive how forced everything is. Haas and Red Bull running special schemes, two special helmets, with more on the way, for what? A LITERAL PARKING LOT. I will take ten processional Bakus in a row over this nonsense. And I'm an American! Who the hell does all this appeal to? At least it isn't a sprint weekend.
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CoopsII wrote: 04 May 2023, 08:04
mario wrote: 04 May 2023, 07:29 Then again, it could also be related to the talk of Hitech submitting an application to join Formula 1. Hitech used to be partially owned by the Mazepin's, and whilst they ostensibly stepped back following the imposition of sanctions, there have been allegations that they are still indirectly involved with Hitech.
I didn't know that part. And let's be honest, Russia will be back in F1 at some point, as unpalatable as it may seem right now.
The Mazepin's have owned stakes in Hitech from 2018 until 2022 through three different entities - a Cypriot registered company called Bergton Management had one stake, Uralkali itself owned another share and a third company, Fungosa Management Limited (which owns trademarks for Nikita Mazepin), was also used to own a stake in Hitech.

When sanctions swung into place, Oliver Oakes, the original founder of the team, took back ownership of Hitech on paper. However, there have been those, such as Joe Saward, who have intimated that Oakes still has close personal connections to the Mazepin family and that Oakes may be acting as a front man for the Mazepin's interests in Hitech.
Wallio wrote: 04 May 2023, 16:51 The Miami GP just needs to die. It is just so bloody offensive how forced everything is. Haas and Red Bull running special schemes, two special helmets, with more on the way, for what? A LITERAL PARKING LOT. I will take ten processional Bakus in a row over this nonsense. And I'm an American! Who the hell does all this appeal to? At least it isn't a sprint weekend.
It's perhaps appropriate that the "special liveries" that have been adopted aren't even all that exciting either.

The one that Red Bull have adopted is especially bland - it's the standard livery with three stripes painted down the side of it:
Image
To be honest, if you were looking at the car from a relatively head on position, you'd probably not even realise that it had a different livery to normal.

Speaking of difficulties in justifying the existence of the Miami GP, there are some recent reports that might take a little bit of a shine off the race weekend for Liberty Media. It seems that, following the 2022 race, the organisers added an extra 3,000 grandstand seats for the race this year, raising the total to 56,000, as they were probably assuming they would sell out easily given the demand for tickets in 2022.

However, it seems that a lot of people were dissatisfied with the cost of the tickets - the grandstand tickets, at around $2,000 each, cost around 3-4 times more than most other venues - and the poor treatment of fans in 2022, and it seems they've overestimated the demand for tickets for this year as a result. There are reports that, even with the organisers holding a number of flash sales to try and boost numbers, there is a possibility that they might fail to sell out - which would make it the first time that a race in the US has failed to sell out in the wake of the spike in interest created by "Drive to Survive".

There are also those wondering if the event in Miami really makes that much sense long term, given that Miami's strategy centres around selling expensive luxury experiences - or, at the very least, selling the perception of a luxury experience. However, the announcement of a race in Las Vegas has stolen much of the limelight that Miami was relying on to sell their event and much of the audience that would have gone to Miami now seems to have switched to Las Vegas.

As you say Wallio - it's hard to see who the race in Miami is now meant to appeal to, especially since the race in Las Vegas means that Miami doesn't really have any particularly unique selling points any more.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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There was an article in Jalopnik a few days back that painted a picture of a heavily corporatised fan experience that was more aimed at businesses and attracting investment than the people in the stands.

Obvious, i know, but one interesting thing about it was that some of the invited fans had received free tickets through associations and businesses. Perhaps a move to fill the stands and feign popularity, to encourage more people to come. However, one can't pay fans to come every year, and without a natural fanbase in the region it'll plummet.

Of course, in reality not every circuit sells out and that's ok. But Miami is probably operating in the business mindset of "97% attendance means the lines on the graph are going down - quick, everyone pull up the hatches!" I feel like this race may die a bizarre death, with trigger happy investors just as keen to get out as they were to get in
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mario wrote: 04 May 2023, 20:48There are also those wondering if the event in Miami really makes that much sense long term, given that Miami's strategy centres around selling expensive luxury experiences - or, at the very least, selling the perception of a luxury experience.
It's definitely the latter. When I think of Miami, my first thoughts are towards vulgarity, not luxury and while my sentiments that the most culturally significant thing to come out of Florida is Miami Vice may be facetious, it's clear to me that the Miami Grand Prix will never have the cultural cachet of the classic European races - or even some of the more storied circuits in the US.
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Apparently Liberty, having seen and heard how fans aren't huge fans of sprint races and having seen and heard how the drivers aren't huge fans of sprint races, have decided to push for 10 sprint races for 2024.

The phrase "saturation point" just simply doesn't exist in their lexicon clearly.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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takagi_for_the_win wrote: 05 May 2023, 14:16 Apparently Liberty, having seen and heard how fans aren't huge fans of sprint races and having seen and heard how the drivers aren't huge fans of sprint races, have decided to push for 10 sprint races for 2024.

The phrase "saturation point" just simply doesn't exist in their lexicon clearly.
But the phrase "additional payments for holding a sprint race" clearly are.
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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On F1TV's FP coverage, they were basically saying how Max being ahead of Checo so far is normal service resuming now we are back on a "proper track". Except......we aren't. It is literally a parking lot, and used as a track one weekend a year. Placing my tin foil hat firmly on, I believe this is part of the FIA and Liberty's push to "legitimize" Miami (they also kept hyping the "sell out" which.....no.) So if Checo wins, does he shake the narrative, justly or unjustly?
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Re: 2023 Discussion Thread

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The Miami race is a sop to big money and I don’t like the track, but I still find it less objectionable than what I’m calling the sportswashing GPs. It seems like there’s a chance Vegas could steal its thunder in the glamour department, and maybe its days will be numbered.
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