2024 discussion thread

[Jarvis]

Oliver Bearman has been named as the new reserve driver for Ferrari for the 2024 F1 season.

[Wallio]

Is this worse or better than the Team Lotus/Lotus-Renault shambles from 2011?

Eh, this is closer to Williams officially running cars as "Iso-Marlboro" for two years than the two Lotuses or "BMW Sauber Ferrari". Also, to Mario's point, don't forget, the beloved MP4-X branding on Mclaren for years actually stood for "Marlboro Project 4". Plus the infamous (or on this site beloved) Eiffeland was just a March named after a motorhome company.

[dr-baker]

So we have just had the most boring silly season in terms of not a single seat change between the last race of 2023 and the first race of 2024.

But then suddenly,…. BOOM! While still in the winter/off-season of 2023/4, we have a major silly season for 2025, and that’s just with Andretti being denied an entry and Hamilton’s shock move to the reds. What else are we going to see for 2025? Because we are going to see MAJOR moves for next year.

[mario]

On another note, there are now allegations starting in the Dutch press that Horner is under investigation by Red Bull after a colleague made a formal complaint about 'inappropriate behaviour' by Horner towards them, with an independent legal firm carrying out the investigation.

We have no further details on the case, other than Horner issuing a statement denying any misconduct on his part. We will have to wait and see what the outcome is, but it sounds like the allegations must be fairly serious if Red Bull felt it necessary to appoint an independent legal representative to carry out this investigation.

[CoopsII]

If it is what we all think it is, rather than he’s been bullying a colleague or something, then I’m actually surprised this is the first case like this to make headlines. Let’s hope it’s a one off ( ) but if it isn’t I hope others come forward to get a bit of justice. I don’t care who you are, a dirty perv is a dirty perv irrespective of what sponsors he/she has on their polo shirt.

[mario]

If it is what we all think it is, rather than he’s been bullying a colleague or something, then I’m actually surprised this is the first case like this to make headlines. Let’s hope it’s a one off ( ) but if it isn’t I hope others come forward to get a bit of justice. I don’t care who you are, a dirty perv is a dirty perv irrespective of what sponsors he/she has on their polo shirt.

I am somewhat loathe to speculate too much at this time, given the limited information and the ferocity with which the rumour mill is spinning at right now. That said, the allegation that this matter has been raised with Oliver Mintzlaff, the CEO of Red Bull (i.e. the parent organisation, not just the racing team itself) suggests that this is a rather serious affair.

[Wallio]

Rumor is old Christian was sending photos of a... sensitive area? to a female colleague, which while I like Christian and usually defend his antics, it is something that 100% seems in character. Should be easy to prove/disprove nowadays, and should have a swift resolution if true.

[CoopsII]

Wasn’t Horner having an affair with Ginger Spice when his partner was pregnant with his child? And then he left her when the child was months old?

Doesn’t make him guilty of anything, although it does suggest his morals are questionable. Also, if he was an unemployed council estate dude he’d probably be vilified in the press for such behaviour. Money definitely buys different rules.

Maybe if Red Bill kick him out he could team up with Briatore…

[Wallio]

Wasn’t Horner having an affair with Ginger Spice when his partner was pregnant with his child? And then he left her when the child was months old?

Yes. He seems easily distracted by pretty women.

[mario]

Rumor is old Christian was sending photos of a... sensitive area? to a female colleague, which while I like Christian and usually defend his antics, it is something that 100% seems in character. Should be easy to prove/disprove nowadays, and should have a swift resolution if true.

The reports about it being that sort of behaviour seem to have mostly come from Bild, but it seems that they are in something of a minority when it comes to the claims about what the misconduct charge is related to. Most outlets have indicated the allegations centre around "inappropriate and controlling behaviour" - i.e. behaviour that seems closer to bullying or harassing behaviour.

Either way, it is being reported that Red Bull will be holding a final hearing in the UK this Friday, which means we should have an answer fairly shortly on Horner's fate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68218956

[sswishbone]

Rumour with practically no source suggests Adrian Newey has an exit clause which can be triggered by Horner leaving... taking into an ocean full of salt... Newey/Hamilton together at Ferrari?!

[Jarvis]

Alpine have launched their 2024 Livery.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Alpine have launched their 2024 Livery.

Is it just me, or is it feeling like we're going to have a lot of cars with black as the base color this year?

[Wallio]

Its naked carbon. Funny how what was the epitome of cool in the late '90s/early '00s is now just so blah. Everyone must be close to the weight limit again, which is wild as the cars are so damn heavy anymore. Mclaren actually abandoned their video boards last year after only a handful of races (and a PR push that made them sound like the next semi-auto gearbox in terms of tech) because nothing is lighter than a monocolor decal over naked carbon.

[mario]

Rumour with practically no source suggests Adrian Newey has an exit clause which can be triggered by Horner leaving... taking into an ocean full of salt... Newey/Hamilton together at Ferrari?!

The rumour seems to have been started by Joe Saward, who posted a tweet that made that particular claim.

As you note, we're getting beyond the point of just a mere pinch of salt with this now, as it requires assumptions piled upon assumptions for that to work.

With regards to the plausibility, I do agree that, if there is the slightest sign that Newey might leave Red Bull, Ferrari would almost certainly be throwing the kitchen sink to try and get Newey given they have reportedly tried to hire him in the past (particularly as one suspects Vasseur has been given carte blanch to do what it takes to get Ferrari to the front of the field).

It also has to be said that, realistically, there wouldn't be that many teams who would have the financial resources available to be able to afford to hire someone like Newey if he did end up on the market - Ferrari and Mercedes would be the ones with the deepest pockets, with perhaps McLaren and Aston Martin in the background.

Similarly, there aren't that many teams out there where Newey could potentially indulge some of his side projects in the way that Red Bull have allowed him to, but Ferrari could potentially tempt him with the offer of getting involved in other projects. Newey has previously expressed strong interest in getting involved with designing a car to the new Le Mans Hypercar regulations, and Ferrari is currently the only team that does have an active Hypercar programme that Newey could be involved in.

Added to that, it is true that Newey did say in 2023 that, out of the many drivers who have competed in Formula 1, there are two that he regrets that he's never had the opportunity to work with - those two being Hamilton and Alonso - and did concede during that same interview that he does have some emotional attachment to Ferrari.

As you note, whilst it may be a bit of idle fun to speculate, in reality it is extremely unlikely that Newey is going anywhere. I would expect that Red Bull would be doing everything they could to keep Newey happy - they have given Newey the sort of freedom that no other team either had the resources or desire to give him - and I do have my doubts as to whether that clause does even exist in Newey's contract.

That said, it does also feel as if people are expecting it to be a case of when, and not if, Horner goes - and whether it is a voluntary departure or if he is going to be forced out.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Its naked carbon.

Ah, ok. Then yes, I'm starting to find it a little tiresome at this point. That said, for most of the teams it's probably more important to look "cool" than distinctive.

[mario]

Its naked carbon.

Ah, ok. Then yes, I'm starting to find it a little tiresome at this point. That said, for most of the teams it's probably more important to look "cool" than distinctive.

I don't know if it is about "looking cool", or more about teams wanting to eke out additional weight savings by not painting the cars.

Beat Zehnder, the sporting director of the Sauber team (yes, I know it's been renamed) stated last year that the livery they were running in 2023 added around 6kg to the weight of the car (a figure that was also picked up on by Racing News 365 https://racingnews365.com/why-f1-cars-h ... on-in-2023). Considering that the use of a greater number of standardised parts has made weight saving more difficult, saving a small amount of weight by not painting the bodywork is a relatively cheap and easy win for teams.

On another note, I would not be surprised if there is more speculation soon about the future of some senior Red Bull staff. Pierre Wache, Red Bull's technical director, and Enrico Balbo, their head of aerodynamics, were both reportedly approached by Ferrari last year, but it seems that they initially rejected Ferrari's attempts to hire them.

However, it seems that there might have been further discussions since then, as Loic Serra - who is moving from Mercedes to Ferrari - is apparently also a close friend of Wache. To that end, the BBC has noted in their latest article about Horner that some in the paddock believe that Wache might now be on his way to Ferrari in 2025.

[Klon]

Ah, ok. Then yes, I'm starting to find it a little tiresome at this point. That said, for most of the teams it's probably more important to look "cool" than distinctive.

I don't know if it is about "looking cool", or more about teams wanting to eke out additional weight savings by not painting the cars.

Beat Zehnder, the sporting director of the Sauber team (yes, I know it's been renamed) stated last year that the livery they were running in 2023 added around 6kg to the weight of the car (a figure that was also picked up on by Racing News 365 https://racingnews365.com/why-f1-cars-h ... on-in-2023). Considering that the use of a greater number of standardised parts has made weight saving more difficult, saving a small amount of weight by not painting the bodywork is a relatively cheap and easy win for teams.

Though given the marketing value of liveries both for the franchises but especially F1 itself, it stands to reason that that will be shut down sooner rather than later by adding a fictive weight value for the paint on unpainted parts.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Ah, ok. Then yes, I'm starting to find it a little tiresome at this point. That said, for most of the teams it's probably more important to look "cool" than distinctive.

I don't know if it is about "looking cool", or more about teams wanting to eke out additional weight savings by not painting the cars.

Beat Zehnder, the sporting director of the Sauber team (yes, I know it's been renamed) stated last year that the livery they were running in 2023 added around 6kg to the weight of the car (a figure that was also picked up on by Racing News 365 https://racingnews365.com/why-f1-cars-h ... on-in-2023). Considering that the use of a greater number of standardised parts has made weight saving more difficult, saving a small amount of weight by not painting the bodywork is a relatively cheap and easy win for teams.

Though given the marketing value of liveries both for the franchises but especially F1 itself, it stands to reason that that will be shut down sooner rather than later by adding a fictive weight value for the paint on unpainted parts.

I was just thinking the same thing Klon. Make those dudes paint their cars!

[Jarvis]

Visa Cash App RB have launched their 2024 livery and it is looking awesome.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Visa Cash App RB have launched their 2024 livery and it is looking awesome.

It looks how I thought the 2024 Toro Rosso would look in 2016, which is a compliment.

[sswishbone]

Early vote for Reject of the year... the photoshop in this article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68294760

[Nessafox]

What do you mean, cardboard cutouts are the pinnacle of style

[Jarvis]

What do you think about the 2024 liveries and which one is your favorite? My favorite one is Ferrari's SF24.

[Wallio]

What do you think about the 2024 liveries and which one is your favorite? My favorite one is Ferrari's SF24.

As much as it kills me to say this, right now its probably Merc's. From the front/side anyway. Ferrari in a close second.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

What do you think about the 2024 liveries and which one is your favorite? My favorite one is Ferrari's SF24.

As much as it kills me to say this, right now its probably Merc's. From the front/side anyway. Ferrari in a close second.

The Mercs look pretty classy, but I'd still like it better if they dropped the red splash. Ferrari is up there. I like the RB Visa Cash App car. Also don't mind the Sauber car with it's bright green accents, at least it's something different.

On another note, I see Christian Horner is present for the Red Bull launch, so I wonder what the result of his "hearing" was (scare quotes because was it a really a hearing in the judicial sense or was it more of an internal meeting).

[mario]

What do you think about the 2024 liveries and which one is your favorite? My favorite one is Ferrari's SF24.

As much as it kills me to say this, right now its probably Merc's. From the front/side anyway. Ferrari in a close second.

The Mercs look pretty classy, but I'd still like it better if they dropped the red splash. Ferrari is up there. I like the RB Visa Cash App car. Also don't mind the Sauber car with it's bright green accents, at least it's something different.

On another note, I see Christian Horner is present for the Red Bull launch, so I wonder what the result of his "hearing" was (scare quotes because was it a really a hearing in the judicial sense or was it more of an internal meeting).

Following the hearing last Friday, Red Bull issued a statement confirming that the investigation is still ongoing - it would appear that the hearing last week was the first opportunity that the independent lawyers had to interview Horner directly about the allegations, so it seems that they were mainly gathering his testimony.

In retrospect, it seems that the predictions that there would be an immediate judgement last Friday now seem to have been premature, and the current investigation is likely to take longer - probably several weeks - before a conclusion is reached.

[noiceinmydrink]

As much as it kills me to say this, right now its probably Merc's. From the front/side anyway. Ferrari in a close second.

I agree; that Mercedes is beautiful. Proper West McLaren vibes.

[sswishbone]

That pre-season testing gap... repeat of last year?

[mario]

That pre-season testing gap... repeat of last year?

It seems that most are expecting Red Bull to still maintain a noticeable gap, and the main debate is simply how much of an advantage they will have. That said, what does seem to have caught the eye of some was the consistency of Ferrari's lap times, which seemed to suggest that the performance of the car in race trim has improved.

Mind you, I'd say that McLaren was a bit weaker than expected - given the way that they'd improved both their reliability and their pace last year, their reliability was a touch disappointing and their pace didn't seem to be much to write home about either.

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

In a nod back to last season, we have a drain cover putting in a star appearance...
And it seems the Bahrain stewards have managed to get themselves in trouble with the FIA by ordering fans to remove pride flags or badges from backpacks

[Wallio]

I cannot believe that me, the board's resident grumpy old man is the one saying this, but the question now is:

"Is there some limit to the races you will watch live"?

I find myself coming back to this as it was (quietly) announced this week that the WEC will be on MAX this season. So you can now watch F1/F2/F3 Porsche Supercup, Indycar, IMSA, and WEC all on demand, and all from basically anywhere with their mobile apps. Even old-fashioned NASCAR is dabbling with Amazon Prime too (5 races a year).

This is one modern-day thing even I can get behind.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I cannot believe that me, the board's resident grumpy old man is the one saying this, but the question now is:

"Is there some limit to the races you will watch live"?

I find myself coming back to this as it was (quietly) announced this week that the WEC will be on MAX this season. So you can now watch F1/F2/F3 Porsche Supercup, Indycar, IMSA, and WEC all on demand, and all from basically anywhere with their mobile apps. Even old-fashioned NASCAR is dabbling with Amazon Prime too (5 races a year).

This is one modern-day thing even I can get behind.

If WEC is on Max, I might actually see a little bit of it this season. And I love having F1TV too. Thing is, without a basic cable Speed channel or something like it, I'm not going to be seeing much other motorsport. That's probably ok at this point, but Speed was how I got started on F1 in the first place.

[Wallio]

If WEC is on Max, I might actually see a little bit of it this season. And I love having F1TV too. Thing is, without a basic cable Speed channel or something like it, I'm not going to be seeing much other motorsport. That's probably ok at this point, but Speed was how I got started on F1 in the first place.

Peacock has quite a bit, if you have that. Has pro wrestling and the olympics too (for a never before asked for trifecta)

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

If WEC is on Max, I might actually see a little bit of it this season. And I love having F1TV too. Thing is, without a basic cable Speed channel or something like it, I'm not going to be seeing much other motorsport. That's probably ok at this point, but Speed was how I got started on F1 in the first place.

Peacock has quite a bit, if you have that. Has pro wrestling and the olympics too (for a never before asked for trifecta)

That's good to know, but I'm unlikely to get it because I already have too many streaming services, or rather they are getting too expensive.

[Wallio]

That's good to know, but I'm unlikely to get it because I already have too many streaming services, or rather they are getting too expensive.

Ain't that the truth!

[mario]

Whilst the main focus has been on the investigation into Horner, a smaller piece of news dropped in February that has been raising a few questions about possible conflicts of interest for the FIA.

Back on the 19th Feb, Sulayem announced that the FIA had signed their first official clothing partner, who will be providing all of the FIA's staff with clothing and accessories, as well as sponsoring the FIA's annual gala event, from 2024 through to 2026. Asides from raising questions about the propriety of having the governing body engaging in these sorts of commercial deals, there is also a question of a conflict of interest given that AlphaTauri has the contract - i.e. the clothing company that has been set up by Red Bull. https://www.fia.com/news/fia-welcomes-a ... ng-partner

[Paul Hayes]

Same old, same old - Verstappen untouchable, but some interest behind him at times. He has to retire from a race for SOME reason at SOME point, surely…? It did feel different watching it on a Saturday afternoon, somehow.

[Jarvis]

We only have one race of this season but we have a clear idea that it would be a very difficult task for other teams to compete with Red Bull this season.

[IceG]

Looks like Piastri and Alonso had some kind of sixth sense.

It seems that Alpine's aero designer, Dirk de Beer, and the technical director have resigned.

Did they not fire half their senior staff last year to bring in new blood and concentrate on 2024?

Given their lamentable performance at Bahrain yesterday this looks like being a terrible year for them.

So Ocon to Mercedes and Gasly to Red Bull?