2024 discussion thread

[Spectoremg]

Prompted by a post from this weekend's GP - is Charles le Clerc any good?

[dr-baker]

Prompted by a post from this weekend's GP - is Charles le Clerc any good?

He's better than most people on this planet. He's better than Al Pease or Yuji Ide. He is probably the best Monegasque driver of the 21st century. He's probably not as good as Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher or Juan Manuel Fangio however.

In short, I think he deserves his place on the F1 grid, he's not the best, but he's not the worst either.

[mario]

Prompted by a post from this weekend's GP - is Charles le Clerc any good?

If this is in relation to his performance in Bahrain, there do seem to have been some problems with his front brakes that would be a mitigating factor.

There were radio transmissions during the race from Leclerc's engineer referring to an irregular imbalance in brake temperatures, and we know from the FIA's documentation that, between qualifying and the race, Ferrari did change part of the ducting for the front left brake. Replacing part of the ducting in parc ferme suggests Ferrari might have observed something in qualifying that they tried to address, but it sounds like there was still a persistent issue in the race.

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

In latest news, bin Suleyman is in trouble for altering the result of a race by ordering Alonso's penalty at Saudi 2023 be removed
And the Saudis have announced their new circuit will have a 20 storey opening corner... but actually the circuit just looks pretty much like every other circuit around... Turkey and Austin squashed together. In fact it seems to be almost identical to another track but I'm racking my brains to figure out which one it is...

[dinizintheoven]

In latest news, bin Suleyman is in trouble for altering the result of a race by ordering Alonso's penalty at Saudi 2023 be removed

I had to look that up... you made it sound like he was trying to fiddle the result retrospectively a year later, something that only the Ministry Of Truth could do.

And the Saudis have announced their new circuit will have a 20 storey opening corner... but actually the circuit just looks pretty much like every other circuit around... Turkey and Austin squashed together. In fact it seems to be almost identical to another track but I'm racking my brains to figure out which one it is...

It's a mutated version of Okayama, f.k.a. TI Aida in the days where it held the Pacific Grand Prix.

[mario]

In latest news, bin Suleyman is in trouble for altering the result of a race by ordering Alonso's penalty at Saudi 2023 be removed

I had to look that up... you made it sound like he was trying to fiddle the result retrospectively a year later, something that only the Ministry Of Truth could do.

And the Saudis have announced their new circuit will have a 20 storey opening corner... but actually the circuit just looks pretty much like every other circuit around... Turkey and Austin squashed together. In fact it seems to be almost identical to another track but I'm racking my brains to figure out which one it is...

It's a mutated version of Okayama, f.k.a. TI Aida in the days where it held the Pacific Grand Prix.

And now it seems he is facing a second investigation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68478049) which has accused him of instructing FIA personnel to fake problems with the circuit, with the objective being to deny the circuit a licence on artificial grounds.

[Wallio]

And now it seems he is facing a second investigation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68478049) which has accused him of instructing FIA personnel to fake problems with the circuit, with the objective being to deny the circuit a licence on artificial grounds.

I mean, that one might actually make him more popular rather than less, but I digress......



With all the Horner/Jos news, the FIA prez being controversial again, and Andretti still "continuing their work at pace", I am reminded of the late great Colin Chapman:

"Formula 1 is backstabbing and political intrigue, interrupted every fortnight by a motor race."

[dr-baker]

[, the FIA prez being controversial again, and

At first I misread this as the FIA Perez...

Then thought that it was a homophone for the FIA Press...

Only then did I realise that prez might have meant president...

[Wallio]

Then thought that it was a homophone for the FIA Press...

I mean, he thinks he's one and the same with the press!

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Jos in his glassiest of glass houses tossing stones...absolutely classic

[mario]

And now it seems he is facing a second investigation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68478049) which has accused him of instructing FIA personnel to fake problems with the circuit, with the objective being to deny the circuit a licence on artificial grounds.

I mean, that one might actually make him more popular rather than less, but I digress......

With all the Horner/Jos news, the FIA prez being controversial again, and Andretti still "continuing their work at pace", I am reminded of the late great Colin Chapman:

"Formula 1 is backstabbing and political intrigue, interrupted every fortnight by a motor race."

Well, it might make him popular with a certain section of the fan base, but it is the sort of move that could make him unpopular amongst parts of the FIA because of the potential legal problems it could open up.

When the European Commission came to an agreement with the FIA over divesting their commercial interests from motorsport series, and specifically from Formula 1, one of the items that was raised was the effective monopoly that the FIA had on licencing circuits for use in motorsport. If Sulayem was ordering members of the FIA to manipulate the licencing system, that is exactly the sort of behaviour that the European Commission wanted to crack down on when it launched their investigation into the way the FIA operated.

Leaving that aside, it now appears that there are yet more questions being raised about the way that Sulayem has been running the FIA. Joe Saward has mentioned that there are some awkward questions for the French FIA over Sulayem's expenses claims for travel, particularly (but not exclusively) around the use of his personal private jet.

Sulayem has, for a number of years, owned his own private jet, and when he announced his candidacy for FIA President, he stated that his intention was to continue living in Dubai and to commute to the FIA's headquarters using his private jet. The problem is that the French branch of the FIA is classified as a non-profit organisation under the French “Association Loi” of 1901, which imposes a limit on the amount of money that can be claimed in expenses.

According to Joe Saward, there are claims that Sulayem's expenses claims breach the limits specified in French law for that type of non-profit organisation, which raises the prospect of the French branch of the FIA being investigated by France's tax authorities (as the FIA could end up facing tax liabilities, or potential penalties for breaching the spending limits for non-profit organisations).

[Rob Dylan]

This comment will likely age poorly, but from my own experience of seeing these kinds of situations play out, it seems like more often than not that the result is determined in the first day or two. In this case, management and the Red Bull powers-that-be haven't removed Horner, so I really doubt that they would decide to do a complete u-turn later on. Not that it's impossible, but I doubt it will happen.

I have no idea what the authenticity of the claims are, but if Jos is acting in poor faith, then surely the only solution to this situation is to find a way to get rid of Jos from the Red Bull paddock somehow while keeping Max. Max himself doesn't do all the media circus stuff and quite clearly doesn't thrive on all the gossip - he strikes me as someone who just wants to get on with their job with as little hassle and silliness as possible.

I just wonder whether it's going to be possible, because at this point it almost seems necessary, for Max to part ways with his father professionally. When I see this situation unfold with Horner, I just think that this isn't going to be the last scandal we'll see related to Jos Verstappen. The press have been hyping up some potential clauses in Max's contract about Red Bull requiring Horner and other top staff to be there to ensure its validity. I don't think Max leaving to Mercedes or somewhere is a solution - he needs to move away from his dad, surely.

[sswishbone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68501426

This is not a good look. It says "dishonesty", however, no doubt many will interpret this as smothering a whistle blower. It will be interesting where this goes...

[Rob Dylan]

Lots of complaints going up that F1 drivers present and former are putting up undisclosed adverts about the new Saudi Arabian circuit on X.

And speaking of undisclosed, there's been an article taken down from some well-known magazine that quite heavily disparages the financial side of Formula 1. Thankfully, Archive.org means it's easily available. I'm still even after reading it not quite sure what part of it got it taken down - it certainly isn't defamatory, and it's quite gushing about certain figures and aspects of our championship in other parts.

[mario]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68501426

This is not a good look. It says "dishonesty", however, no doubt many will interpret this as smothering a whistle blower. It will be interesting where this goes...

The thing is, there are also a number of reasons why the woman in question may have been suspended on full pay for other reasons too, and one option does seem to be a case of protecting an individual against intrusion by the press.

There has been a particularly notoriously garbage magazine - the same one that went after the Wolff's - that has apparently been targeting the woman involved in this case, and a leaked copy of their article showed that they were naming her. That does also raise the possibility that she could have been suspended as a means for Red Bull to move her out of the public eye as they attempt to quell this story.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

there are also a number of reasons why the woman in question may have been suspended on full pay for other reasons too, and one option does seem to be a case of protecting an individual against intrusion by the press.

Here in the US, it seems weird to call it "suspended" with pay. If it isn't a sort of punishment wouldn't a description like "Leave of absence" or "temporary leave" be better? That is unless the terminology is used differently in the UK than here.

[IceG]

Carlos Sainz has been replaced by Bearman for the Saudi Grand prix due to appendicitis - hope he gets will in time for Australia and good luck to young Oliver Bearman.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68511360

So that is a point dropped in my predicament predictions. Won't edit but for the record:

ROTR: Sainz' appendix
IIDOTR: Bearman

[Paul Hayes]

I know it's not good news for poor old Sainz, but the F1 authorities must be glad there is at least, if not a positive, a non-controversial story to get at least some attention today!

Good luck to Bearman. Ferrari's youngest ever driver, born the year Alonso won his first title!

Will this be the biggest ever age range on the grid...? I guess maybe not with some of the 1950s drivers, then later Graham Hill.

[Rob Dylan]

I know it's not good news for poor old Sainz, but the F1 authorities must be glad there is at least, if not a positive, a non-controversial story to get at least some attention today!

Good luck to Bearman. Ferrari's youngest ever driver, born the year Alonso won his first title!

Will this be the biggest ever age range on the grid...? I guess maybe not with some of the 1950s drivers, then later Graham Hill.

Alonso was doing his 56th race, finishing 2nd at the Spanish Grand Prix in 2005, the same day Oliver Bearman was being delivered! And *stolen from others in the Discord group* we reckon the biggest age gap was between Philippe Étancelin and Peter Collins in the early 50s - just about a 35-year difference.

[Paul Hayes]

I know it's not good news for poor old Sainz, but the F1 authorities must be glad there is at least, if not a positive, a non-controversial story to get at least some attention today!

Good luck to Bearman. Ferrari's youngest ever driver, born the year Alonso won his first title!

Will this be the biggest ever age range on the grid...? I guess maybe not with some of the 1950s drivers, then later Graham Hill.

Alonso was doing his 56th race, finishing 2nd at the Spanish Grand Prix in 2005, the same day Oliver Bearman was being delivered! And *stolen from others in the Discord group* we reckon the biggest age gap was between Philippe Étancelin and Peter Collins in the early 50s - just about a 35-year difference.

Alonso will have to try and hang on a fair bit longer to be part of that particular record, then!

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

born the year Alonso won his first title!

Shite, he's the age of my daughter! Damn, I'm old

[Har1MAS1415]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

[Paul Hayes]

If Bearman goes on to have a long F1 career, his having overlapped with Alonso will be a good link for those "get from now to 1950 in the fewest possible career overlaps" games.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

This is way OT, but there are a number of parents on this forum, but are there any grandparents? Feel free to ignore, but this Bearman thing just made me feel old for having a kid born in 2005, made me wonder about it.

[Jarvis]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

Looking forward seeing his performance in tomorrow's race after his strong showing in the qualifying.

[mario]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

It looks like it would be the first time that somebody raced using that number since Danner in 1989, but technically we have seen that number used during a race weekend between 1989 and the present day.

Back in 2005, there was the rule that allowed certain teams to run an additional car during the practice sessions, and Toyota was one of those teams. The most recent time that a driver therefore appeared during a race weekend whilst using No.38 would be Ricardo Zonta in the practice sessions for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix.

[mario]

there are also a number of reasons why the woman in question may have been suspended on full pay for other reasons too, and one option does seem to be a case of protecting an individual against intrusion by the press.

Here in the US, it seems weird to call it "suspended" with pay. If it isn't a sort of punishment wouldn't a description like "Leave of absence" or "temporary leave" be better? That is unless the terminology is used differently in the UK than here.

The term is more commonly used in the context of disciplinary action, but it seems that it's not exclusively used in that context. It also has to be said that, strictly speaking, we do not actually know if the woman involved was formally suspended by Red Bull - Red Bull themselves have not actually said anything about that incident, so we do not know the terms of the current arrangement.

Meanwhile, the situation seems to be getting progressively messier, as Helmut Marko is apparently being summoned for a meeting with the senior management of Red Bull GmbH, with the possibility that he might now be suspended from his role. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68517911

There are claims in the press that Marko is under investigation for potentially leaking the alleged copies of the WhatsApp messages exchanged between Horner and the claimant. If that were the case, Marko could be in fairly significant trouble - breaching people's personal data in that manner might attract criminal charges.

At the same time, Max Verstappen is being much more overtly political in his actions now, making a big play of his loyalty to Marko and demanding that Marko must stay at the team, with an implicit threat that he will quit if Marko were suspended.

[Har1MAS1415]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

It looks like it would be the first time that somebody raced using that number since Danner in 1989, but technically we have seen that number used during a race weekend between 1989 and the present day.

Back in 2005, there was the rule that allowed certain teams to run an additional car during the practice sessions, and Toyota was one of those teams. The most recent time that a driver therefore appeared during a race weekend whilst using No.38 would be Ricardo Zonta in the practice sessions for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix.

I knew I should have said excluding DNQs/DNPQs/3rd Drivers/Drivers who only drove in practice sessions.

[Har1MAS1415]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

It looks like it would be the first time that somebody raced using that number since Danner in 1989, but technically we have seen that number used during a race weekend between 1989 and the present day.

Back in 2005, there was the rule that allowed certain teams to run an additional car during the practice sessions, and Toyota was one of those teams. The most recent time that a driver therefore appeared during a race weekend whilst using No.38 would be Ricardo Zonta in the practice sessions for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix.

What about Kubica and Vettel in 2006? Max in 2014?

[Paul Hayes]

If Red Bull were a sponsor rather than an owner, I imagine they'd be pretty pissed off that their dominating performances now merit hardly any coverage during the races! But not surprising, of course.

I was very pleased for Bearman, and amused at how completely underwhelmed he sounded about the whole thing. Every inch the Fry and Laurie sketch F1 driver already!

[mario]

Oliver Bearman will be using #38. If memory serves me correct, that number hasn't been raced since Christian Danner in 1989 with Rial.

It looks like it would be the first time that somebody raced using that number since Danner in 1989, but technically we have seen that number used during a race weekend between 1989 and the present day.

Back in 2005, there was the rule that allowed certain teams to run an additional car during the practice sessions, and Toyota was one of those teams. The most recent time that a driver therefore appeared during a race weekend whilst using No.38 would be Ricardo Zonta in the practice sessions for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix.

What about Kubica and Vettel in 2006? Max in 2014?

True, it looks like those would also be cases which count towards people using that number during a race weekend, albeit, as you note, those drivers did not then go on to compete in the race itself.

[Bleu]

If Bearman goes on to have a long F1 career, his having overlapped with Alonso will be a good link for those "get from now to 1950 in the fewest possible career overlaps" games.

Now we can go with Maurice Trintignant - Chris Amon - Jacques Laffite - Gerhard Berger - Michael Schumacher - Alonso/Hamilton/Perez/Ricciardo/Hülkenberg

If Amon had continued for one more year we could make it in one less step with Patrese.

[Har1MAS1415]

It looks like it would be the first time that somebody raced using that number since Danner in 1989, but technically we have seen that number used during a race weekend between 1989 and the present day.

Back in 2005, there was the rule that allowed certain teams to run an additional car during the practice sessions, and Toyota was one of those teams. The most recent time that a driver therefore appeared during a race weekend whilst using No.38 would be Ricardo Zonta in the practice sessions for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix.

What about Kubica and Vettel in 2006? Max in 2014?

True, it looks like those would also be cases which count towards people using that number during a race weekend, albeit, as you note, those drivers did not then go on to compete in the race itself.

I did mean to say Bearman will be the first driver to actually race with the number 38 since Christian Danner in the 1989 Canadian GP.

[Paul Hayes]

If Bearman goes on to have a long F1 career, his having overlapped with Alonso will be a good link for those "get from now to 1950 in the fewest possible career overlaps" games.

Now we can go with Maurice Trintignant - Chris Amon - Jacques Laffite - Gerhard Berger - Michael Schumacher - Alonso/Hamilton/Perez/Ricciardo/Hülkenberg

If Amon had continued for one more year we could make it in one less step with Patrese.

Bonus point to Alonso for the only "original" Schumacher career overlap, I feel!

[dinizintheoven]

If Bearman goes on to have a long F1 career, his having overlapped with Alonso will be a good link for those "get from now to 1950 in the fewest possible career overlaps" games.

Now we can go with Maurice Trintignant - Chris Amon - Jacques Laffite - Gerhard Berger - Michael Schumacher - Alonso/Hamilton/Perez/Ricciardo/Hülkenberg

If Amon had continued for one more year we could make it in one less step with Patrese.

Bonus point to Alonso for the only "original" Schumacher career overlap, I feel!

Also see this...

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

In other news,the EU has lifted sanctions against Mazepin

[mario]

In other news,the EU has lifted sanctions against Mazepin

That said, the main reason given for dropping the sanctions was that, because he was no longer being directly sponsored by his father's companies after ceasing to be employed by Haas, there was no longer a direct economic link between Nikita and those sanctioned entities.

It therefore means that, whilst the sanctions might have been lifted for now, if he were to attempt to use the funds from those companies to enter the sport, the sanctions would snap back into place. Added to that, the fact that the US and UK still have sanctions in place make Nikita effectively unemployable in practice.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

sanctions in place make Nikita effectively unemployable in practice.

Not his driving ability?

[mario]

sanctions in place make Nikita effectively unemployable in practice.

Not his driving ability?

His ability - or lack thereof - behind the wheel didn't stop him getting a seat the first time around as long as the money kept flowing.

[Rob Dylan]

Lewis Hamilton says F1 hard to trust with no accountability in the sport

Lots of great soundbites in this article:

Asked whether Mohammed Ben Sulayem still had Hamilton's confidence as FIA president, Hamilton said: "(He) never has."

---

The Mercedes driver added: "I am incredibly proud of Susie. She is so brave and she stands for such great values and she is such a leader.

"In a world where often people are silenced, for her to be standing up sends such a great message, and I love that she has taken it out of this world and is fighting it from the outside.

it's a shame they didn't ask his opinion of Massa then