2024 discussion thread

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Paul Hayes
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

mario wrote: 09 Jun 2024, 09:26There have been some commenting that Perez seems to put in a better performance when his contract is up for renewal, and then seems to slump in form once the contract has been signed.
Perhaps they should have offered him a race-by-race contract, Blundell '95 style!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

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Paul Hayes wrote: 09 Jun 2024, 19:57
mario wrote: 09 Jun 2024, 09:26There have been some commenting that Perez seems to put in a better performance when his contract is up for renewal, and then seems to slump in form once the contract has been signed.
Perhaps they should have offered him a race-by-race contract, Blundell '95 style!
Or less rejectfully Senna 1993 style.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

Off topic, but...

This weekend was the first time I have watched substantial amounts of the Le Mans 24 hour race.

Absolutely brilliant stuff with exciting strategies, brave overtakes, and great action throughout the 5-6 hours I managed. I think there were 15 ex F1 drivers plus some for the future, and Valentino Rossi was there also.

Some lessons there for F1 about rain tyres and the cross-over point. And yes, there was a four-hour safety car period, but that was at night when it was tipping down.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by RAK »

I'm inclined to think that the rain-caused safety car period probably could have been cut down by an hour or so, but yeah, they did have enough rain-affected running for it to make a difference. The fact that there were multiple cars in contention for the lead right until the end made it worth watching right down to the chequered flag, in a way that's been harder to justify for Formula One - even as a fan! - for quite some time. But then again, a lot of that comes down to BoP and a deliberate restraint of performance across the Hypercar and GT3 fields, as well as the de facto spec-car nature of LMP2.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

Well, things at Alpine seem to be getting increasingly weird - firstly, there have been reports that Renault is planning to pull the plug on developing an engine for 2026, with Alpine now buying in engines from other parties (https://racingnews365.com/alpine-consid ... e-supplier) and now it's been announced that, of all people, Flavio Briatore is returning to the team in an advisory position (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/briat ... /10625410/).

Whilst de Meo might want better results, you really have to wonder what sort of strategy they think they have to achieve it - I can't see the current turmoil and uncertainty helping in any way.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

Stroll and Leclerc vying for ROTW already - red mist in practice never achieved anything.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx »

Well that was a proper qualifying-being disputed right to the very last second and with just 0.02 of a second separating 1st and 2nd and just 0.035 a second separating 3rd to 7th!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

mario wrote: 21 Jun 2024, 07:10 Well, things at Alpine seem to be getting increasingly weird - firstly, there have been reports that Renault is planning to pull the plug on developing an engine for 2026, with Alpine now buying in engines from other parties (https://racingnews365.com/alpine-consid ... e-supplier) and now it's been announced that, of all people, Flavio Briatore is returning to the team in an advisory position (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/briat ... /10625410/).

Whilst de Meo might want better results, you really have to wonder what sort of strategy they think they have to achieve it - I can't see the current turmoil and uncertainty helping in any way.
Someone remind me when Briatore's ban from F1 was lifted.

Singapore 2008 was a long time ago now after all.
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Paul Hayes
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

Like at Imola, Norris just ran out of road again. But it was his poor start which really did for him this time, I think, otherwise we could have had them duelling right up there together at the end.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

I suppose they have to cover every eventuality in Spain...
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 12:27
mario wrote: 21 Jun 2024, 07:10 Well, things at Alpine seem to be getting increasingly weird - firstly, there have been reports that Renault is planning to pull the plug on developing an engine for 2026, with Alpine now buying in engines from other parties (https://racingnews365.com/alpine-consid ... e-supplier) and now it's been announced that, of all people, Flavio Briatore is returning to the team in an advisory position (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/briat ... /10625410/).

Whilst de Meo might want better results, you really have to wonder what sort of strategy they think they have to achieve it - I can't see the current turmoil and uncertainty helping in any way.
Someone remind me when Briatore's ban from F1 was lifted.

Singapore 2008 was a long time ago now after all.
It seems that, following Briatore's appeal to the Tribunal de Grande Instance, the FIA and Briatore came to an out of court settlement that meant he was allowed to return to Formula 1 from the 1st January 2013 onwards. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 616458.stm

That said, due to the competitor registration procedure for senior roles, such as the team manager, with the FIA, the FIA does still have the option to block him from taking up those roles by denying him a licence.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

mario wrote: 24 Jun 2024, 06:53
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 12:27
mario wrote: 21 Jun 2024, 07:10 Well, things at Alpine seem to be getting increasingly weird - firstly, there have been reports that Renault is planning to pull the plug on developing an engine for 2026, with Alpine now buying in engines from other parties (https://racingnews365.com/alpine-consid ... e-supplier) and now it's been announced that, of all people, Flavio Briatore is returning to the team in an advisory position (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/briat ... /10625410/).

Whilst de Meo might want better results, you really have to wonder what sort of strategy they think they have to achieve it - I can't see the current turmoil and uncertainty helping in any way.
Someone remind me when Briatore's ban from F1 was lifted.

Singapore 2008 was a long time ago now after all.
It seems that, following Briatore's appeal to the Tribunal de Grande Instance, the FIA and Briatore came to an out of court settlement that meant he was allowed to return to Formula 1 from the 1st January 2013 onwards. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 616458.stm

That said, due to the competitor registration procedure for senior roles, such as the team manager, with the FIA, the FIA does still have the option to block him from taking up those roles by denying him a licence.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

The Sainz situation is really dragging on.

Now that Verstappen is reconfirmed for Red Bull (oh the shock), and similarly Stroll at Aston Martin (thanks dad!) and Gasly at Alpine (poor chap), it looks like Sainz' choices are Mercedes (for an immediate competitive drive - unless Toto has totally lost it over Antonelli), Williams (for a growing team with genuine ambitions, a solid team-mate, and an excellent TP) or Saudiber (but very much a "jam tomorrow" - more like in a few years - situation).

Alpine just looks too toxic, VCARB is so much of a backwards step, and Haas cannot afford him, nor offer him a competitive car.

Sad situation when such talent could be sidelined.

I hope he gets the Mercedes drive whilst Antonelli learns at Williams for at least a season.

Unless Alonso is up to something (doing a last-minute Rosberg/Vettel) and has set things up with Stroll senior...?
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

IceG wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 08:46 The Sainz situation is really dragging on.

Now that Verstappen is reconfirmed for Red Bull (oh the shock), and similarly Stroll at Aston Martin (thanks dad!) and Gasly at Alpine (poor chap), it looks like Sainz' choices are Mercedes (for an immediate competitive drive - unless Toto has totally lost it over Antonelli), Williams (for a growing team with genuine ambitions, a solid team-mate, and an excellent TP) or Saudiber (but very much a "jam tomorrow" - more like in a few years - situation).

Alpine just looks too toxic, VCARB is so much of a backwards step, and Haas cannot afford him, nor offer him a competitive car.

Sad situation when such talent could be sidelined.

I hope he gets the Mercedes drive whilst Antonelli learns at Williams for at least a season.

Unless Alonso is up to something (doing a last-minute Rosberg/Vettel) and has set things up with Stroll senior...?
Realistically, Marko seems determined to shut him out of any Red Bull team, so their junior team was always a non-starter (and recently Marko has talked of wanting Lawson to drive for them in 2025).

Mercedes is probably a bit of an issue, as it might be as much down to the rumour that Wolff is aggressively courting Max for 2026, but Sainz is insisting on a multi-year deal that would restrict Mercedes's options.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

mario wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 09:19 Mercedes is probably a bit of an issue, as it might be as much down to the rumour that Wolff is aggressively courting Max for 2026, but Sainz is insisting on a multi-year deal that would restrict Mercedes's options.
Given a choice between Versappen/Sainz and Russell/Antonelli for 2026 it would have to be the Red Bull refugees.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

IceG wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 10:07
mario wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 09:19 Mercedes is probably a bit of an issue, as it might be as much down to the rumour that Wolff is aggressively courting Max for 2026, but Sainz is insisting on a multi-year deal that would restrict Mercedes's options.
Given a choice between Versappen/Sainz and Russell/Antonelli for 2026 it would have to be the Red Bull refugees.
From what Marko has said in the past, it sounds like Verstappen and Sainz is not a viable pairing - Jos and Carlos Sr were fighting each other so much that, if either Max or Carlos Jr did join Mercedes, the other driver would probably refuse to join them. If they did, somehow, agree to join each other, the conflict behind the scenes sounds like it would be a nightmare for any team boss to try and deal with and likely more than Wolff would want to deal with.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx »

Just out of curiosity, in the sprint qualifying with a minute or two left no-one had set a time. What would have happened if for instance Leclerc had stopped out on the track with his issue instead of in the pit lane and left insufficient time for anyone to complete their lap and register a time? How does grid order get decided then? :|
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 21:33 Just out of curiosity, in the sprint qualifying with a minute or two left no-one had set a time. What would have happened if for instance Leclerc had stopped out on the track with his issue instead of in the pit lane and left insufficient time for anyone to complete their lap and register a time? How does grid order get decided then? :|
If it's the second or third part of qualifying, they can use the times from the previous part of the session, I believe.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

Quick Sprint review:

Loosing the positions/timings during the sprint was bad enough but what the bathplug was the TV director smoking? Close-ups without context, on-boards that showed nothing, pit shots which really don't matter in a pitless race, Ocon vs. Gasly for, what, 5 laps - terrible.

Meanwhile it looks like Piastri can challenge Norris on merit over short distances when tyre management is relatively secondary.

And Perez can manage tyres when it is totally unnecessary - 17 seconds off the pace!

Good work from Leclerc and Russell.

Bad work from an over-effective DRS which really handicapped the leading cars (except Max of course).
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

Well, that all got a bit dramatic, didn't it? Verstappen-versus-Norris looks like developing into quite a fight now - difficult to see them not being the top two for much of the rest of the reason.

Great to see George win again at last. I know they reversed into it a bit, but still... They'll take it!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

Paul Hayes wrote: 30 Jun 2024, 14:33.

Great to see George win again at last. I know they reversed into it a bit, but still... They'll take it!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

dr-baker wrote: 29 Jun 2024, 07:11
MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote: 28 Jun 2024, 21:33 Just out of curiosity, in the sprint qualifying with a minute or two left no-one had set a time. What would have happened if for instance Leclerc had stopped out on the track with his issue instead of in the pit lane and left insufficient time for anyone to complete their lap and register a time? How does grid order get decided then? :|
If it's the second or third part of qualifying, they can use the times from the previous part of the session, I believe.
It looks like the drivers would then be ranked as follows:
1. Those who left the pit lane and began a flying lap before the end of the session.
2. Those who left the pit lane, but did not commence a flying lap.
3. Those who did not leave the pit lane.

Using the times from the previous session would therefore probably be used only if no other means of ordering the drivers could be used.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

On a different note, I've noticed that there does seem to be a shifting in the perception of Alonso's performances in recent races towards a more negative outlook.

It does seem as if, since Imola, people have been more critical of his performances and there is a growing perception that he's become more error prone than he used to be. It could be said that the phrase "you're only as good as your last race" does have an element of truth to it and that, if he puts in some better performance in a few of the upcoming races, it might quieten down that criticism.

Still, in 2023, there did seem to be many marvelling that Alonso, despite now being in his early 40s, seemed to be defying the years and was being described as a "beast" and a "legend" for remaining competitive against drivers half his age. It does feel as if those complimentary comments have dried up a bit, and now there seem to be more comments questioning if Alonso's age is beginning to have a more detrimental impact.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

Monza 2021, Max Verstappen's Red Bull collides with Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes and McLaren end up as the beneficiaries but the win goes to Lando Norris' teammate.

Spielberg 2024, Max Verstappen's Red Bull collides with Lando Norris' McLaren and Mercedes end up as the beneficiaries but the win goes to Lewis Hamilton's teammate.

What a coincidence.

(Yes, I know Max didn't retire this time.)
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

A home 1-2-3 in qualifying, and no pointed comments written on the sides of the Saubers tomorrow! Phew!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

I felt very sorry for George, but pleased for Hamilton he got the win. And a good, exciting race!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by SammiRei »

I believe this makes Hamilton the first/only driver to win a race after their 300th race (only 5 other drivers have reached that many races, and none have won after that point).
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by rachel1990 »

yeah I think you are right because Kimi's 2018 win was in the 200's (just)
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

SammiRei wrote: 07 Jul 2024, 18:03 I believe this makes Hamilton the first/only driver to win a race after their 300th race (only 5 other drivers have reached that many races, and none have won after that point).
Yes, as also noted by rachel1990, Hamilton is the only one to have achieved that so far, with Kimi being the next closest (winning his 291st race).

Right now, it looks like there might not be a huge number of drivers on the grid who are likely to reach the 300 race mark soon and also have a car that is likely to be competitive enough to race for a win. The closest driver might be Perez, in that he's due to reach the 300 race mark in the latter part of next season - that said, I am not sure many would be betting on him being particularly likely to win a race on current form, let alone if Red Bull's rivals have the performance to compete with them next year.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

Ocon to Haas for 2025 apparently, alongside Oliver Bearman.
https://racingnews365.com/ocon-does-not ... th-f1-team
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by rachel1990 »

Well I think K-mags F1 career might be done with.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

rachel1990 wrote: 08 Jul 2024, 18:11 Well I think K-mags F1 career might be done with.
Depending how long it takes for Ocon to do his usual bridge-burning act at Haas...
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

Don't know how true this is, I usually take social media with a pinch of salt, but I would probably be like good for him if true, and hope at least that he has the support of his family.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Seems to be Confirmed:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/artic ... schumacher

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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

And it does look like he has some family support at least:
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by sswishbone »

Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Jarvis »

Kevin Magnussen and Haas have decided to part ways at the end of this season. Esteban Ocon is most likely to take his seat in 2025.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

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sswishbone wrote: 17 Jul 2024, 07:06 Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?
You would think that if they were giving Perez such an ultimatum that they already have someone in mind as a replacement. But I'm not sure that they do.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Jarvis wrote: 18 Jul 2024, 09:16 Kevin Magnussen and Haas have decided to part ways at the end of this season. Esteban Ocon is most likely to take his seat in 2025.
Seems like this might finally be it for Kevin. I remember listening to a Motor Sport Magazine podcast in about 2012 with Martin Whitmarsh where he was asked about future talent and he'd mentioned Kevin. He said he wasn't proud of how McLaren had treated his dad and he wanted to do right by Kevin. In the end, they demoted him after only 1 year, (In my opinion, they didn't do right by him either) which set him on his journeyman odyssey through F1. And now it's probably over. It's both too bad for Kevin, but also probably a good time to make way for some new talent in the sport.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

sswishbone wrote: 17 Jul 2024, 07:06 Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?
The negotiations seem to have taken place during the opening races of the season when Perez was still putting in reasonable performances.

There seems to have been an expectation that, with any potential distractions from the contract talks out of the way and a potential boost in confidence from signing that deal, Perez would maintain a more consistent level of performance. Instead, his performance declined after he signed that extension.
Ducktanian wrote: 18 Jul 2024, 10:29
sswishbone wrote: 17 Jul 2024, 07:06 Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?
You would think that if they were giving Perez such an ultimatum that they already have someone in mind as a replacement. But I'm not sure that they do.
That's true - Ricciardo is reported to be under a bit of pressure himself over his performances, suggesting Red Bull might not be hugely confident he would be much better than Perez. The team also doesn't seem to think Tsunoda would be able to withstand the pressure associated with the role, and Lawson seems out of the question.

Some have proposed Sainz, but Jos sounds like he would do everything he could to avoid that, given how badly he reportedly got on with Sainz Sr. The lack of an appealing alternative is probably helping to keep Perez in that seat.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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