Qatar ROTR

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

Early contender
17 drivers under investigation!

[dr-baker]

Early contender
17 drivers under investigation!

It would be easier to list those who were not under investigation and from my deductions from reading the article, those are Alonso, the Hulk, and Ocon. However, no further action taken.

[Salamander]

Early contender
17 drivers under investigation!

An official statement from the FIA has now confirmed that there will be no further action against the drivers.

Common sense prevails at the FIA... for once.

At this stage, I'd put my money on MBS for ROTR.

[Wallio]

Early nomination for Liam Lawson. Has there ever been a driver less respected by his peers? Even his engineer today couldn't help but correct him when he was mid rant about the Aston.

[sswishbone]

Perez - automatic for not setting off at Green light for a pit lane start to allow Collapinto a clean pass, but to then finish behind him on merit. Get this guy off the grid, now

[dr-baker]

Perez - automatic for not setting off at Green light for a pit lane start to allow Collapinto a clean pass, but to then finish behind him on merit. Get this guy off the grid, now

Even Christian Horner was baffled by Perez...
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horne ... /10677961/


In other news, Verstappen has a one-place grid drop for blocking Russell in qualifying... whilst both were on warm up laps! Apparently Verstappen went below his delta time.

[Londoner]

1. The FIA, MBS and Race Control. An absolute bathplug embarrassment. Rui Marques needs to be handed his P45 immediately for how he handled the mirror incident. Random, extremely harsh penalties littered the second half of the race.

2. Formula 1. One of those races which actively makes me hate this sport at times.

[Ciaran]

Race control. End of story.

Dishonourable mention for David Crock.

[satsuki4]

1. FIA and MSB - this race was a shitshow and it's all their fault.

2. Lance Stroll and Sergio Perez - for being terrible as always.

3. Saub- nah, I'm just kidding. That's the IIDOTR, for once.

[TomPryce]

Race control is a slam dunk ROTR.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Yeah, race control on that one. So utterly predictable.

[Meatwad]

Stewards and race control: At best incompetence, at worst manipulation. Sheer idiocy.

[IceG]

The circuit itself led to a tedious sprint and a tedious race until the mirror fell off...

...and the race director's handling of that was incompetent in the extreme and the standout rejectity of a race full of rejectfulness.

[RAK]

The FIA, MBS and race control are an obvious choice. So is the whole Qatar Grand Prix: An awful track, awful location and an awful dead-rubber race as far as the Drivers' Championship is concerned.

Aside from that, I suppose Lewis Hamilton was rather more off the boil this weekend than Russell; whether it's just lack of motivation or further indication of "retire, old man" tendencies, it was not his finest weekend.

[Salamander]

1. Race control - Okay sure, this is Rui Marques' second F1 race as race director, I fully understand him not being comfortable in the role, and mistakes are understandable. But as I said in the discord, he was so scared of making the wrong call on throwing a VSC/SC for the wing mirror debris that he made the worst call, that being none at all. From there the race quickly went out of control as the mistakes piled up.
2. Mohamed Ben Sulayem - bathplug you, you incompetent, egotistical piece of shite. This race would not have devolved into such a farce if he hadn't fired Niels Wittich because his feelings got hurt.

Dishonourable mention goes to the stewards: I'm sorry, a ten-second stop-go penalty!? For not lifting under yellows - okay, I get you want to take a hard-line on a safety issue like that, fine. I fundamentally refuse to believe Lando Norris was the only one who wasn't lifting there.

[dr-baker]

So, having that wing mirror lying in the middle of the track more than half way down the pit straight:

- dangerous enough to have yellow flags and giving Norris a 10-second stop go penalty for not backing off

- dangerous enough to have yellow flags out into the only overtaking zone for 5 laps

- not dangerous enough to send out a safety car or virtual safety car for 5 laps

- not dangerous enough to get a Marshall to deal with it whilst the mirror is in one piece

- safer to manage retrieving the mirror once it has been smashed into a million pieces and two cars have picked up punctures than when it is in one piece


I don't know what caused the mirror to come off the Haas and whether that could have been prevented by having the Haas come into the pits on that lap.or a previous lap, but the management of the collection of the mirror was a massive cockup. I was actually more concerned that the mirror was going to be flipped up into the air intact rather than disintegrate.

[rachel1990]

1- Race Control- Safety should ALWAYS come first. That Broken Mirror should have meant at the least a VSC because it was on the track. But no they leave it on the track under double waved yellows arguing that they didn't want to disadvantage anyone and then when the inevitable happens they are made to look like idoits.

2 HRH Sir Lewis Hamilton. the mirror incident is not his fault. What was his fault

• Jumping the start

• speeding in the pitlane

• wanting to retire a healthy car

• being thrashed by George

another bad day by Hammy

[Spectoremg]

Apart from the already worthy posts, this excuse for a racetrack.

[Alextrax52]

Race Control: It took the loose wing mirror being destroyed and two cars getting punctures from the debris for a decision to actually be made. The new guy seemed absolutely petrified to make that decision. A VSC would have dealt with that perfectly but of course this Race Control and common sense is sorely lacking as it has been for the last 3 years.

The FIA: Firing people left, right and centre all because it’s president has a big fat ego. They’ve gone through so many senior officials that I’m actually wondering if they’ll have anyone left at this rate

DHM’s

Sergio Perez: I was getting tired of mentioning him but he found new lows this weekend, firstly the failure to go when the green light came on at the pit lane in the Sprint which left even Christian Horner dumbfounded and then in the race just as it looked like he’d be on for a half decent finish, he binned it under a Safety Car, mechanical issue or not doesn’t change that for me.

Lewis Hamilton: The puncture obviously wasn’t his fault but after the high’s of Vegas this was another rotten weekend for Hamilton, was trounced by Russell on speed yet again, blew the start and copped a 5 second penalty, then got a drive through for pitlane speeding and not for the first time in his career he asked to park the car when points were still there for the taking. He looks like his time at Mercedes can’t end quick enough

[James1978]

Pretty terrible ay for Britain all told - Hamilton looking less and less like he wants to be there, Lando for getting that penalty by not lifting and George for making proper enemies of Max which probably isn't too clever (the whole situation was a bit reminiscent of Suzuka 1990 - it was either going to be concede or collide).

But Race Control really should get it.

[James1978]

Also the messy situation at Alpine (it would actually make more sense at Mercedes to get Antonelli in there for some experience, let Hamilton get a test with Ferrari as unlike Alpine they're not in a close fight in the constructors!)

(Ah actually come to think of it, it's the fact that it's Ocon's new team they are in a fight with for 6th probably is a key factor in it, I only just twigged).

[dr-baker]

I'm glad that Abbi Pulling had already won the Formula Academy in race 1 as race 2 was cancelled as barrier repairs took too long following a Porsche Supercup race. Would have been an anticlimactic way to have won the title.

[Jarvis]

Race control for sure, they made the whole race a shite show.

[mario]

1. Race control - Okay sure, this is Rui Marques' second F1 race as race director, I fully understand him not being comfortable in the role, and mistakes are understandable. But as I said in the discord, he was so scared of making the wrong call on throwing a VSC/SC for the wing mirror debris that he made the worst call, that being none at all. From there the race quickly went out of control as the mistakes piled up.
2. Mohamed Ben Sulayem - bathplug you, you incompetent, egotistical piece of shite. This race would not have devolved into such a farce if he hadn't fired Niels Wittich because his feelings got hurt.

Dishonourable mention goes to the stewards: I'm sorry, a ten-second stop-go penalty!? For not lifting under yellows - okay, I get you want to take a hard-line on a safety issue like that, fine. I fundamentally refuse to believe Lando Norris was the only one who wasn't lifting there.

What probably does not help is that Rui Marques is having to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 support races that were taking place in Qatar this weekend.

Originally, Janette Tan, who was the deputy race director for Formula 2, was supposed to be stepping up to the role of race director for the Formula 2 support event. However, Sulayem appears to have fired Janette at very short notice (with no explanation for why he chose to do so), forcing Marques to have to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 race (and, it would appear, also having to be the race director for the F1 Academy race too).

Now, it's been pointed out that, more than a decade ago, Charlie Whiting persuaded the FIA to have separate race directors for Formula 1 and support series such as Formula 2 to avoid overloading the race director. Now, I agree there was an element of Marques not wanting to make the wrong call and thus avoided making any decision, but I wonder if it was also aggravated due to the unexpected demand shortly before this weekend to monitor the support races too.

[Wallio]

I don't know what caused the mirror to come off the Haas and whether that could have been prevented by having the Haas come into the pits on that lap.or a previous lap, but the management of the collection of the mirror was a massive cockup. I was actually more concerned that the mirror was going to be flipped up into the air intact rather than disintegrate.

It actually came off of Albon's Williams, presumably because it's held together with duct tape and hope.

To me the only (non-Race Control) nomination is the Lusail International Circuit. Mickiest. Mouse. Ever. I don't watch F1 to see gravel trap excursions and spins every 5 laps. If we must have a bike track, can't we go back to Portimao?

[Har1MAS1415]

Race Control hands down!

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

What probably does not help is that Rui Marques is having to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 support races that were taking place in Qatar this weekend.

Originally, Janette Tan, who was the deputy race director for Formula 2, was supposed to be stepping up to the role of race director for the Formula 2 support event. However, Sulayem appears to have fired Janette at very short notice (with no explanation for why he chose to do so), forcing Marques to have to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 race (and, it would appear, also having to be the race director for the F1 Academy race too).

Now, it's been pointed out that, more than a decade ago, Charlie Whiting persuaded the FIA to have separate race directors for Formula 1 and support series such as Formula 2 to avoid overloading the race director. Now, I agree there was an element of Marques not wanting to make the wrong call and thus avoided making any decision, but I wonder if it was also aggravated due to the unexpected demand shortly before this weekend to monitor the support races too.

Maybe add an honorable mention for Sulayem for me. This kind of turnover is the sign of a struggling organization, and it appears that Sulayem is the reason. So his term is 4 years, will there be an election in 2025? Here's hoping someone will run to take it from him. I wonder who would be a good fit?

[mario]

What probably does not help is that Rui Marques is having to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 support races that were taking place in Qatar this weekend.

Originally, Janette Tan, who was the deputy race director for Formula 2, was supposed to be stepping up to the role of race director for the Formula 2 support event. However, Sulayem appears to have fired Janette at very short notice (with no explanation for why he chose to do so), forcing Marques to have to double up as the race director for the Formula 2 race (and, it would appear, also having to be the race director for the F1 Academy race too).

Now, it's been pointed out that, more than a decade ago, Charlie Whiting persuaded the FIA to have separate race directors for Formula 1 and support series such as Formula 2 to avoid overloading the race director. Now, I agree there was an element of Marques not wanting to make the wrong call and thus avoided making any decision, but I wonder if it was also aggravated due to the unexpected demand shortly before this weekend to monitor the support races too.

Maybe add an honorable mention for Sulayem for me. This kind of turnover is the sign of a struggling organization, and it appears that Sulayem is the reason. So his term is 4 years, will there be an election in 2025? Here's hoping someone will run to take it from him. I wonder who would be a good fit?

It is also very much the case that Sulayem seems to be more interested in feuding with others - his response to the requests from the drivers for greater transparency on how the money raised from them was being spent was to tell them to get lost and that "it's none of their business", and he's been attacking the press and insisting that he is "fixing the FIA" by his actions.

Another thing he did was, when asked about the number of people leaving or being fired from the FIA recently, his response was to go “You know what? I am very optimistic about the FIA,” he said. “I am so happy with our position now. I can only see good things. And by the way, do you know 64 employees joined us in 2023, for your information? And 92 in 2024.”

However, although Sulayem has claimed that 64 people joined in 2023, it's notable that, if you look at the published figures for the number of FIA employees, it's fairly static. In 2021 - the most recent figures, as it seems the FIA's 2022 Activity Report wasn't made public - the headcount of the FIA was 222, whilst the 2023 Activity Report states there were 232 employees. For 2023 at least, it seems that, according to the FIA's own figures, staff must have been leaving the FIA almost as quickly as they were being recruited given the modest rise in headcount.

You're right that the next Presidential elections are in 2025, but the current expectations is that there might not be much, if any, attempt to challenge Sulayem. It seems that Sulayem has already been rather active in courting member clubs, and in particular targeting the smaller clubs with promises of diverting more of the FIA's funds in their direction - as the incumbent, and having the advantage of being able to dole out patronage and funding as he chooses, he is in a position of strength. Added to that, it seems there are many who are fearful of the potential backlash if they were to run against him and the potential revenge that he might take once back in power.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Added to that, it seems there are many who are fearful of the potential backlash if they were to run against him and the potential revenge that he might take once back in power.

This is an interesting conundrum. But I think it can be beaten. We just need someone popular who is outside the sport currently with no need to remain in the FIA's good graces should they lose. I'm sure there are people who fit the description (and would be a trustworthy, steady hand at the helm). I'm thinking someone like Jody Scheckter or Keke Rosberg. I'm curious who else could be a decent choice. Just someone as a bridge to a future free of Sulayem. It's a lot of hassle for someone to take on, and almost by definition they need to be a bit old and out of touch in order to be beyond the reach of sanction by Sulayem if they should lose.

[Rob Dylan]

almost by definition they need to be a bit old and out of touch in order to be beyond the reach of sanction by Sulayem if they should lose.

I repeat my previous suggestion of either Bernie Ecclestone or Daniel Ricciardo

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

almost by definition they need to be a bit old and out of touch in order to be beyond the reach of sanction by Sulayem if they should lose.

I repeat my previous suggestion of either Bernie Ecclestone or Daniel Ricciardo

I could live with Daniel, but I wonder if he has any aspirations in endurance racing or anywhere else the FIA has tendrils?

[mario]

almost by definition they need to be a bit old and out of touch in order to be beyond the reach of sanction by Sulayem if they should lose.

I repeat my previous suggestion of either Bernie Ecclestone or Daniel Ricciardo

I could live with Daniel, but I wonder if he has any aspirations in endurance racing or anywhere else the FIA has tendrils?

Whilst he's not announced what he intends to do next, Ricciardo does seem to have considered racing at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in the past.

Asides from that, it seems Sulayem has been moving in the background to enact a major power grab at the FIA. It seems that members of the audit committee had raised concerns about some of Sulayem's expenses claims and his plans to enact a $1.5m "president’s fund" to pay member clubs that also happen to be member clubs that vote for the president of the FIA. In response, Sulayem wants to strip the audit committee of it's ability to check the FIA's financial activities and to also heavily curtail the ability of the ethics committee to investigate anybody, especially the president of the FIA. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 89xevxp1jo

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I repeat my previous suggestion of either Bernie Ecclestone or Daniel Ricciardo

I could live with Daniel, but I wonder if he has any aspirations in endurance racing or anywhere else the FIA has tendrils?

Whilst he's not announced what he intends to do next, Ricciardo does seem to have considered racing at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in the past.

Asides from that, it seems Sulayem has been moving in the background to enact a major power grab at the FIA. It seems that members of the audit committee had raised concerns about some of Sulayem's expenses claims and his plans to enact a $1.5m "president’s fund" to pay member clubs that also happen to be member clubs that vote for the president of the FIA. In response, Sulayem wants to strip the audit committee of it's ability to check the FIA's financial activities and to also heavily curtail the ability of the ethics committee to investigate anybody, especially the president of the FIA. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 89xevxp1jo

I wonder if any of this would be in violation of any EU or French rules binding this type of organization? I confess to not knowing what type of organization the FIA is. Here in the US, it would likely be some type of non-profit organization that, in order to be untaxed, would have to make much of its financial dealings public. Are there rules/laws like that governing the FIA? (Noting that the financial rules in the US for these types of organizations is probably not a model for the world, it's just a way for me to get my head around what these kinds of actions should mean)

[Nessafox]

If i'm not mistaken, some parts of the FIA fall under the Swiss law, and i have no idea how that correstponds to EU law.

[Rob Dylan]

And of course this is probably all deliberately built to become some kind of leviathan that no individual or even group would be able to take down on its own, but would probably need some grand co-ordinated effort.

I don't remember who said it, but someone famously said of the recession in the late 00s that, instead of being too big to fail, things were so big that they had to fail. Formula 1's governorship, staff turnover, 24 races, ever-increasing cliquey attitude, is all going to bite them in the bum eventually.

[mario]

I could live with Daniel, but I wonder if he has any aspirations in endurance racing or anywhere else the FIA has tendrils?

Whilst he's not announced what he intends to do next, Ricciardo does seem to have considered racing at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in the past.

Asides from that, it seems Sulayem has been moving in the background to enact a major power grab at the FIA. It seems that members of the audit committee had raised concerns about some of Sulayem's expenses claims and his plans to enact a $1.5m "president’s fund" to pay member clubs that also happen to be member clubs that vote for the president of the FIA. In response, Sulayem wants to strip the audit committee of it's ability to check the FIA's financial activities and to also heavily curtail the ability of the ethics committee to investigate anybody, especially the president of the FIA. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 89xevxp1jo

I wonder if any of this would be in violation of any EU or French rules binding this type of organization? I confess to not knowing what type of organization the FIA is. Here in the US, it would likely be some type of non-profit organization that, in order to be untaxed, would have to make much of its financial dealings public. Are there rules/laws like that governing the FIA? (Noting that the financial rules in the US for these types of organizations is probably not a model for the world, it's just a way for me to get my head around what these kinds of actions should mean)

The FIA is classified as a non-profit organisation under French law, and that has previously caused a few problems for them - it was suggested that part of the reason why some members of the FIA's audit committee were fired was because they'd questioned whether some of Sulayem's expenses claims were illegal under French law (which does allow individuals running that sort of non-profit to reclaim legitimate expenses, but does put limitations on what can be claimed). However, that type of organisation is also subject to fewer checks on their administrative procedures, as well as receiving more favourable tax treatment, under French law.

With regards to your earlier questions about having an outside run for FIA President - the problem is that the members of the FIA don't just vote for the FIA president, but vote for a list of candidates that fill all of the same positions simultaneously:
- The President of the FIA
- The President of the Senate
- The Deputy President for Automobile Mobility and Tourism
- The Deputy President of Sport
- 7 vice presidents of the FIA (Middle East and North Africa, Africa, North America, South America, Asia-Pacific and two for Europe)

That list is put forward by the person who is running for election as president of the FIA, which therefore means there is ample opportunity for a presidential candidate to trade political influence and important positions in return for block voting. It also happens to favour the incumbent president as well, given that it's in the interests of those individuals to keep the current president happy and deliver their block's votes to him in return for that continued patronage.

The way that Sulayem was also looking to utilise the "President's fund" highlights another quirk of the FIA's voting system. Whilst member nations have 24 votes each, the FIA allocates 12 of those votes to whichever organisation is the Sporting Member for that nation, whilst the other 12 votes go to the Mobility Member for that nation.

Now, if a nation has multiple organisations that represent one of those two areas, then the votes are divided between those organisations. An example of that would be the UK, where Motorsport UK gets 12 votes, with The Royal Automobile Club and IAM Roadsmart getting 6 votes each as they are the mobility members for the UK.

However, if a nation only has one national motorsport body that is both the sporting member and mobility member, then that organisation gets all 24 of the votes allocated to them. That would be the case for most of the smaller nations, such as Andorra or Gabon, that are part of the FIA - which means that the smaller nations, which have all of their votes concentrated into a single body, can have a disproportionate impact when compared to larger nations, where their votes are split into multiple different blocks.

That, in turn, effectively encourages presidential candidates to give more favours to those smaller national motorsport bodies that control the block votes for their nation - which is what that "Presidential fund" Sulayem was proposing seems to have been intended to do. Again, it also helps the incumbent candidate given they can control how money is being spent by the FIA in the run up to an election.