2024 Reject of the season
- rachel1990
- Posts: 1012
- Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 20:21
2024 Reject of the season
So with the season over and done with it is time to see who the reject of the season is
HM- Alpine Saved by impressive late form from Pierre Gasly and one amazing day in Brazil the team were looking down the barrels of 9th until it finally upturned for them.
Logan Sargant Saved by 2 teams and 1 driver being more horrific than him but deserves a mention for being benched in Australia after his teammate wrecked a car which told its own story about how much confidence the team had in him. Clearly not wanted by Williams and in the end the team put him out of his misery early.
Williams Repair bill Too many crashes by all three drivers pushing too much meant it cost the team a chance of going for 6th in the constructors and was borrowing parts in the end just to get to the end of the season. glad 2024 is over with.
Daniel Riccardo wanted to get back into a Red Bull seat. however, never looked less likely and was involved with too many crashes and it was clear his time had come and gone. again dropped before the end of the season
The Reject of the Season Podium!!
Bronze- Aston Martin
Oh Dear. Started fairly well but dropped like a stone- updates added fat to the car not muscle and became Jaguar 2.0. Alonso did his best including a brilliant drive in China but Stroll added nearly nothing. Very bad year and was very lucky that formula 1.5 could not get itself together and go after them. Scraped 5th in the constructors. Adrian Newey has been brought In to save them.
Silver-Kick Sauber-Ferrari
Really should be Kick the Sauber, Hard to gauge how well the drivers were due to how crap the car was. Slow, overweight and a little underwhelming lineup meant it was almost 2014 all over again. Did finish last in the constructors, BUT did not get 0 points thanks to 1 great day in Qatar for Zhou. So it's a little framework for Audi to start off with.
Gold- Sergio Perez
It does feel like kicking a puppy sometimes but let's be honest. His teammate won the driver's championship. He came 8th. Max won 9 races and got 14 podiums overall. Sergio got 4 podiums 0 wins and none since China. 285 point difference. Sergio would be boxed in races to get out of Max's way. He cost Red Bull at least 2nd in the constructors. 1 good race between China and the end of the season (Baku but he got 0 points in this race) Red Bull tried to stop the slide but it looks like they have surrendered and it looks like its the end of his career in f1.
HM- Alpine Saved by impressive late form from Pierre Gasly and one amazing day in Brazil the team were looking down the barrels of 9th until it finally upturned for them.
Logan Sargant Saved by 2 teams and 1 driver being more horrific than him but deserves a mention for being benched in Australia after his teammate wrecked a car which told its own story about how much confidence the team had in him. Clearly not wanted by Williams and in the end the team put him out of his misery early.
Williams Repair bill Too many crashes by all three drivers pushing too much meant it cost the team a chance of going for 6th in the constructors and was borrowing parts in the end just to get to the end of the season. glad 2024 is over with.
Daniel Riccardo wanted to get back into a Red Bull seat. however, never looked less likely and was involved with too many crashes and it was clear his time had come and gone. again dropped before the end of the season
The Reject of the Season Podium!!
Bronze- Aston Martin
Oh Dear. Started fairly well but dropped like a stone- updates added fat to the car not muscle and became Jaguar 2.0. Alonso did his best including a brilliant drive in China but Stroll added nearly nothing. Very bad year and was very lucky that formula 1.5 could not get itself together and go after them. Scraped 5th in the constructors. Adrian Newey has been brought In to save them.
Silver-Kick Sauber-Ferrari
Really should be Kick the Sauber, Hard to gauge how well the drivers were due to how crap the car was. Slow, overweight and a little underwhelming lineup meant it was almost 2014 all over again. Did finish last in the constructors, BUT did not get 0 points thanks to 1 great day in Qatar for Zhou. So it's a little framework for Audi to start off with.
Gold- Sergio Perez
It does feel like kicking a puppy sometimes but let's be honest. His teammate won the driver's championship. He came 8th. Max won 9 races and got 14 podiums overall. Sergio got 4 podiums 0 wins and none since China. 285 point difference. Sergio would be boxed in races to get out of Max's way. He cost Red Bull at least 2nd in the constructors. 1 good race between China and the end of the season (Baku but he got 0 points in this race) Red Bull tried to stop the slide but it looks like they have surrendered and it looks like its the end of his career in f1.
Benetton of 1992. Never a reject
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
I've been taking a sabbatical (hopefully not a Häkkinen sabbatical!) for the most part from F1 this year, but have caught enough races to give my general mentions and opinions.
- Zhou Guanyu: After three years in F1, he doesn't seem to have improved beyond his regular level of anonymity, and aside from his one-off good result a few weekends back, he was consistently behind Bottas in most qualifyings and races. He's not the worst driver in the universe (it's 2024 and we just don't get rejects like we used to), but surely there are more exciting prospects out there to fill seats than this guy?
- Logan Sargeant: It's not a good look for anyone to get dumped halfway through the year nowadays. Sargeant was never really very good. After Mazepin went, everyone saw how bad Latifi was. When Latifi went, everyone saw how bad Sargeant was, and then Ricciardo, etc. In his day Logan was usually the worst driver on track, crashed a lot, and got replaced by a much more exciting and better driver.
- Mohamed Ben Sulayem: seems to have declared war on anybody and everybody this year, all just to grasp onto power. All just to exert a little more influence than he already has. He is making no friends, and while I won't make future predictions, it certainly seems like the tide is starting to roll against him.
- Kevin Magnussen: while there's been one or two highs over 2024, his season has otherwise been a total dud. I'm a big fan of Kevin and have been for years now, but this was far from his best year. He got his lucky renaissance when Mazepin was dropped, but his three-year contract is now up, and I can't imagine he impressed anyone enough to steal a drive for next year. I was pleased to see him back, but I am equally pleased now to see him gone.
- Alpine: bar their big moment in Brazil, the team has been rubbish. Constant internal bickering - didn't they do another whole management upheaval at some point? Their "big star of the future" Ocon never amounted to what people were expecting. Outside of that freak result at Interlagos, they would otherwise be 8th overall, and it was the team's worst car since maybe even 2016.
- Williams: They seem to operate with ebbs and flows, do Williams. I remember there being much promise for how 2024 was going to go, and instead the team got half their haul from last year. Alex Albon's balloon got deflated when Franco Colapinto came in and did very well against him, so now everyone's wondering what the big promise is for them going forward? What do they have as their USP, when even Haas did well this year?
- Sergio Perez: he remains the most obvious candidate to me, and the one least needing a justification to be on this list. While it wasn't uncommon in the old days to have one-car teams going after championships, it has been literal decades since a driver was this poor compared to their championship-winning teammate. For that prestige alone, Perez probably deserves ROTY this year.
- Zhou Guanyu: After three years in F1, he doesn't seem to have improved beyond his regular level of anonymity, and aside from his one-off good result a few weekends back, he was consistently behind Bottas in most qualifyings and races. He's not the worst driver in the universe (it's 2024 and we just don't get rejects like we used to), but surely there are more exciting prospects out there to fill seats than this guy?
- Logan Sargeant: It's not a good look for anyone to get dumped halfway through the year nowadays. Sargeant was never really very good. After Mazepin went, everyone saw how bad Latifi was. When Latifi went, everyone saw how bad Sargeant was, and then Ricciardo, etc. In his day Logan was usually the worst driver on track, crashed a lot, and got replaced by a much more exciting and better driver.
- Mohamed Ben Sulayem: seems to have declared war on anybody and everybody this year, all just to grasp onto power. All just to exert a little more influence than he already has. He is making no friends, and while I won't make future predictions, it certainly seems like the tide is starting to roll against him.
- Kevin Magnussen: while there's been one or two highs over 2024, his season has otherwise been a total dud. I'm a big fan of Kevin and have been for years now, but this was far from his best year. He got his lucky renaissance when Mazepin was dropped, but his three-year contract is now up, and I can't imagine he impressed anyone enough to steal a drive for next year. I was pleased to see him back, but I am equally pleased now to see him gone.
- Alpine: bar their big moment in Brazil, the team has been rubbish. Constant internal bickering - didn't they do another whole management upheaval at some point? Their "big star of the future" Ocon never amounted to what people were expecting. Outside of that freak result at Interlagos, they would otherwise be 8th overall, and it was the team's worst car since maybe even 2016.
- Williams: They seem to operate with ebbs and flows, do Williams. I remember there being much promise for how 2024 was going to go, and instead the team got half their haul from last year. Alex Albon's balloon got deflated when Franco Colapinto came in and did very well against him, so now everyone's wondering what the big promise is for them going forward? What do they have as their USP, when even Haas did well this year?
- Sergio Perez: he remains the most obvious candidate to me, and the one least needing a justification to be on this list. While it wasn't uncommon in the old days to have one-car teams going after championships, it has been literal decades since a driver was this poor compared to their championship-winning teammate. For that prestige alone, Perez probably deserves ROTY this year.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
HM - Sauber - They deserve a mention, but not a placing because yes they were dreadfully slow......but that's it. They had nothing particularly rejectful happen. The wheel nut nonsense was fixed by Japan, and was the supplier's fault anyway. Yes, the name was bad, but unlike VCARB, everyone just called them Sauber anyway. Slow is not rejectful, not to me anyway. Plus they actually had a decent amount of 11ths and 12ths. Under the "points to P12" system briefly discussed early on this year, they would have benefited the most.
Bronze - Race Control - I usually don't jump on the bandwagon of the stewards, but good Lord, this year saw Schrodinger's penalties: everything and nothing. Over half the grid was under investigation twice during the year, and nothing happened either time. We then ended with two 10 sec stop go penalties and a retired/fired driver carrying a grid drop. Professional stewards when? Please?
Silver - Sergio Perez - Look, I know Checo has had a lot going on around him. Red Bull was borderline imploding early in the year. Newey left. His dad keeps mouthing off about everything. He has had issues with his marriage and with his relationship with Max. He was also "dropped" at least twice this year only to not actually be dropped. But come on dude, constant Q1s and DNFs, no matter how difficult the car is, is just sad. Mclaren won the WCC with 6 wins. Red Bull finished a distant 3rd with 10(!) wins, all from Max. Danny Ric got cut for far less.
Gold - Williams Grand Prix Engineering - Good lord what a nightmare. Car was incredibly late due to spreadsheets. Literally. Their Team Principal looked just lost all year, alternating between blaming his precedessors for the teams problems and openly begging Carlos Sainz to sign with them. He led them on until the summer break before realizing he had no real other options, and now is pretty upset he has to go there with how bad they are and how good Ferrari has become. They tore the heart out of an already weak Logan Sargent by taking his car off him in Australia (due to Albon's mistake!) and then revealing to the world that they had this very scenario written into poor Logan's contract! They didn't have a spare car until over a third of the way through the season, weren't at the weight limit until after the summer break and were rumored to miss/only run one car in both China and Vegas. They asked the FIA for a waiver for Kimi Anotelli, but then plopped Franco Calopinto out of F2, which while a great move, just showed how overrated Albon is. Simply embarrassing for Sir Frank's squad all around.
If the George/Max nonsense had started earlier and/or gone on longer it would have pretty easily made my list. Grow up boys.
Bronze - Race Control - I usually don't jump on the bandwagon of the stewards, but good Lord, this year saw Schrodinger's penalties: everything and nothing. Over half the grid was under investigation twice during the year, and nothing happened either time. We then ended with two 10 sec stop go penalties and a retired/fired driver carrying a grid drop. Professional stewards when? Please?
Silver - Sergio Perez - Look, I know Checo has had a lot going on around him. Red Bull was borderline imploding early in the year. Newey left. His dad keeps mouthing off about everything. He has had issues with his marriage and with his relationship with Max. He was also "dropped" at least twice this year only to not actually be dropped. But come on dude, constant Q1s and DNFs, no matter how difficult the car is, is just sad. Mclaren won the WCC with 6 wins. Red Bull finished a distant 3rd with 10(!) wins, all from Max. Danny Ric got cut for far less.
Gold - Williams Grand Prix Engineering - Good lord what a nightmare. Car was incredibly late due to spreadsheets. Literally. Their Team Principal looked just lost all year, alternating between blaming his precedessors for the teams problems and openly begging Carlos Sainz to sign with them. He led them on until the summer break before realizing he had no real other options, and now is pretty upset he has to go there with how bad they are and how good Ferrari has become. They tore the heart out of an already weak Logan Sargent by taking his car off him in Australia (due to Albon's mistake!) and then revealing to the world that they had this very scenario written into poor Logan's contract! They didn't have a spare car until over a third of the way through the season, weren't at the weight limit until after the summer break and were rumored to miss/only run one car in both China and Vegas. They asked the FIA for a waiver for Kimi Anotelli, but then plopped Franco Calopinto out of F2, which while a great move, just showed how overrated Albon is. Simply embarrassing for Sir Frank's squad all around.
If the George/Max nonsense had started earlier and/or gone on longer it would have pretty easily made my list. Grow up boys.
Professional Historian/Semi-Retired Drag Racer/Whiskey Enthusiast
"When I was still racing, I never once thought 'Oh, I can't damage the car here'." - Jolyn Palmer
Me either Jolyn, maybe that's why we're both out, eh?
"When I was still racing, I never once thought 'Oh, I can't damage the car here'." - Jolyn Palmer
Me either Jolyn, maybe that's why we're both out, eh?
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
rachel1990 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2024, 16:26 So with the season over and done with it is time to see who the reject of the season is
HM- Alpine Saved by impressive late form from Pierre Gasly and one amazing day in Brazil the team were looking down the barrels of 9th until it finally upturned for them.
Logan Sargant Saved by 2 teams and 1 driver being more horrific than him but deserves a mention for being benched in Australia after his teammate wrecked a car which told its own story about how much confidence the team had in him. Clearly not wanted by Williams and in the end the team put him out of his misery early.
Williams Repair bill Too many crashes by all three drivers pushing too much meant it cost the team a chance of going for 6th in the constructors and was borrowing parts in the end just to get to the end of the season. glad 2024 is over with.
Daniel Riccardo wanted to get back into a Red Bull seat. however, never looked less likely and was involved with too many crashes and it was clear his time had come and gone. again dropped before the end of the season
The Reject of the Season Podium!!
Bronze- Aston Martin
Oh Dear. Started fairly well but dropped like a stone- updates added fat to the car not muscle and became Jaguar 2.0. Alonso did his best including a brilliant drive in China but Stroll added nearly nothing. Very bad year and was very lucky that formula 1.5 could not get itself together and go after them. Scraped 5th in the constructors. Adrian Newey has been brought In to save them.
Silver-Kick Sauber-Ferrari
Really should be Kick the Sauber, Hard to gauge how well the drivers were due to how crap the car was. Slow, overweight and a little underwhelming lineup meant it was almost 2014 all over again. Did finish last in the constructors, BUT did not get 0 points thanks to 1 great day in Qatar for Zhou. So it's a little framework for Audi to start off with.
Gold- Sergio Perez
It does feel like kicking a puppy sometimes but let's be honest. His teammate won the driver's championship. He came 8th. Max won 9 races and got 14 podiums overall. Sergio got 4 podiums 0 wins and none since China. 285 point difference. Sergio would be boxed in races to get out of Max's way. He cost Red Bull at least 2nd in the constructors. 1 good race between China and the end of the season (Baku but he got 0 points in this race) Red Bull tried to stop the slide but it looks like they have surrendered and it looks like its the end of his career in f1.
I agree about Perez being ROTY
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
Gosh there are many candidates are there?
Mohammed Ben Sulayem's dictatorial tendencies, sometimes for things that are just not worth being dictatorial about even.
Stake F1 Kick Sauber Ferrari Audi Alfa Romeo In this very competitive year, they almost managed to go without points.
Guanyu Zhou and Valterri Bottas At no point did it look like there was anything special coming from these guys. Well Zhou did that one race and that one emotional moment in his home race. Bottas stood out more for his commercials than his driving.
Aston MartinIt's easy to forget they got a 5th place in the constructors because it often felt like they were battlingfor 9th. So anymous, dragged down by an unmotivated Alonso and Sir Lance a lot.
Lance Stroll Here's someone with a yearly subcription to this list, but instead, i will nominate him for Reject of the Decade
Williams What a bloody mess. Chaos personified. Could have done much better than what they did.
Logan Sargeant Slow and crash-prone, in a boring season he would always get the award, but there's too many other things happening that we at this point already forgot he existed.
Alpine A good season end saved their season but let's not forget how shite they were most of the year.
Daniel Riccardo This season confirmed more than ever that this guy is just broken. Getting fired was actually a mercy killing. Being loved by the media only gets you so far.
Michael Andretti Whilst my opinion is that the Andretti team should have been accepted, Michael's behaviour didn't really help things.
But i'm gonna have to pick the inevitable
Sergio Perez Altough we all agree Max Verstappen is a talented driver, Checo's second driver performance reminded us of Jos Verstappen. Except that Jos had the excuse of being a rookie. At no point did it look like Checo could regain his form or even perform an anomaly result. If he gets fired, it will also be a mercy killing,but he doesn't realise it yet.
Dishonourable mention:
Felipe Massa The bathplug Dude?
Jacky Ickx' fetish for African women i mean i had to nominate this at some point
Mohammed Ben Sulayem's dictatorial tendencies, sometimes for things that are just not worth being dictatorial about even.
Stake F1 Kick Sauber Ferrari Audi Alfa Romeo In this very competitive year, they almost managed to go without points.
Guanyu Zhou and Valterri Bottas At no point did it look like there was anything special coming from these guys. Well Zhou did that one race and that one emotional moment in his home race. Bottas stood out more for his commercials than his driving.
Aston MartinIt's easy to forget they got a 5th place in the constructors because it often felt like they were battlingfor 9th. So anymous, dragged down by an unmotivated Alonso and Sir Lance a lot.
Lance Stroll Here's someone with a yearly subcription to this list, but instead, i will nominate him for Reject of the Decade
Williams What a bloody mess. Chaos personified. Could have done much better than what they did.
Logan Sargeant Slow and crash-prone, in a boring season he would always get the award, but there's too many other things happening that we at this point already forgot he existed.
Alpine A good season end saved their season but let's not forget how shite they were most of the year.
Daniel Riccardo This season confirmed more than ever that this guy is just broken. Getting fired was actually a mercy killing. Being loved by the media only gets you so far.
Michael Andretti Whilst my opinion is that the Andretti team should have been accepted, Michael's behaviour didn't really help things.
But i'm gonna have to pick the inevitable
Sergio Perez Altough we all agree Max Verstappen is a talented driver, Checo's second driver performance reminded us of Jos Verstappen. Except that Jos had the excuse of being a rookie. At no point did it look like Checo could regain his form or even perform an anomaly result. If he gets fired, it will also be a mercy killing,but he doesn't realise it yet.
Dishonourable mention:
Felipe Massa The bathplug Dude?
Jacky Ickx' fetish for African women i mean i had to nominate this at some point
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
- Forti
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
DHM: Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber - A low for Team Hinwil that hasn't been seen since the early years of hybrids. But once the pitstops were sorted out, nothing offensively bad unlike the ROTY podium, just really slow.
3: Mismanagement of Formula 1 - Ben Sulayem NEEDS to calm his rear wing down. Talk about fighting fire... with firings. The Qatar mirror incident would've been handled just fine if Rui Marques didn't have the pressure stacked on him to manage so many FIA single seater races because MBS fired what feels like every other soul on planet Earth qualified to direct races. Seriously, what in HWNSNBM's name did the F1 Academy race director do wrong to get fired? When we're coming off of the fairly calm tenure of Jean Todt, and with all of this in the media's spotlight, this is a horrible look for The Pinnacle of Motorsport (TM) as a whole. If a respectable figure in the world of F1 like Sebastian Vettel for example runs against him for the FIA presidency next year, he better watch out.
2: Williams - A promising 2023 compounded by several steps behind in the following year. Sargeant's time was up this year and his firing was justified, but his team didn't help matters by benching him in Australia for his teammate's crash. Comes across as just cruel to the inexperienced American. Albon wasn't exactly infallible either. A shaky start to the season, and Colapinto certainly made him sweat. Top that all off with the spreadsheet shenanigans, and lack of spare cars. James Vowles has loads of work to do in order to justify Carlos Sainz going here and not Enstone or even Sauber.
1: Sergio Perez - Sadly there's nowhere to hide for poor Checo. Too many cases of him languishing at the tail end of points positions while Max was out fighting for the win. When the 2024 Red Bull was (cue the title card for Invincible), he wasn't quite there. He should've held off the Ferraris from victory in Australia, but that didn't happen. Not good for a number 2 driver. The juniors are waiting in the wings Red Bull gave them for that second seat. Any merch money from the Latin American fans shouldn't be worth more than a lost Constructor's Championship.
3: Mismanagement of Formula 1 - Ben Sulayem NEEDS to calm his rear wing down. Talk about fighting fire... with firings. The Qatar mirror incident would've been handled just fine if Rui Marques didn't have the pressure stacked on him to manage so many FIA single seater races because MBS fired what feels like every other soul on planet Earth qualified to direct races. Seriously, what in HWNSNBM's name did the F1 Academy race director do wrong to get fired? When we're coming off of the fairly calm tenure of Jean Todt, and with all of this in the media's spotlight, this is a horrible look for The Pinnacle of Motorsport (TM) as a whole. If a respectable figure in the world of F1 like Sebastian Vettel for example runs against him for the FIA presidency next year, he better watch out.
2: Williams - A promising 2023 compounded by several steps behind in the following year. Sargeant's time was up this year and his firing was justified, but his team didn't help matters by benching him in Australia for his teammate's crash. Comes across as just cruel to the inexperienced American. Albon wasn't exactly infallible either. A shaky start to the season, and Colapinto certainly made him sweat. Top that all off with the spreadsheet shenanigans, and lack of spare cars. James Vowles has loads of work to do in order to justify Carlos Sainz going here and not Enstone or even Sauber.
1: Sergio Perez - Sadly there's nowhere to hide for poor Checo. Too many cases of him languishing at the tail end of points positions while Max was out fighting for the win. When the 2024 Red Bull was (cue the title card for Invincible), he wasn't quite there. He should've held off the Ferraris from victory in Australia, but that didn't happen. Not good for a number 2 driver. The juniors are waiting in the wings Red Bull gave them for that second seat. Any merch money from the Latin American fans shouldn't be worth more than a lost Constructor's Championship.
JUDD POWER, YEAH!
It would be funny if FortiWinks resurfaced only to find out that I'm the Forti in town now.Aislabie c. 2024 Las Vegas Grand Prix wrote: Bottas is what, 23rd in a 20 car championship? Man's more washed than Mr Clean's best pants
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
1) Sergio Perez, no wins, no podiums in the last 19 races (18 if you include the Miami Sprint race), slumped to 8th overall and, as a result, Red Bull dropped to 3rd in the Constructors' Championship, worst performance for the team that produced the Drivers' Champion since Brabham in 1983 and even Riccardo Patrese managed to at least win a race that year.
2) Sauber, almost a repeat of 10 years ago, ended up as a repeat of 2016 with Zhou Guanyu doing a Felipe Nasr with a race to spare.
3) Alpine, that double-podium in Brazil saved their bacon, otherwise they still would have been only 8th and, for the most of the year, they looked poised to finish behind Williams!
DHM: Danny Ric, Logan Sargeant, Williams, McLaren (despite winning the Constructors' title), Aston Martin (hope Adrian Newey can work his magic as he done so many times in the past before long).
2) Sauber, almost a repeat of 10 years ago, ended up as a repeat of 2016 with Zhou Guanyu doing a Felipe Nasr with a race to spare.
3) Alpine, that double-podium in Brazil saved their bacon, otherwise they still would have been only 8th and, for the most of the year, they looked poised to finish behind Williams!
DHM: Danny Ric, Logan Sargeant, Williams, McLaren (despite winning the Constructors' title), Aston Martin (hope Adrian Newey can work his magic as he done so many times in the past before long).
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
3) Lance Stroll - I was considering several different team for the final podium spot - Sauber, Alpine, Williams, Aston Martin, even - but I had to give it to Stroll in the end. What is he even doing here? What's the point? I know his dad owns the team but I have to ask: Does he even like being a racing driver? Because he surely doesn't drive like it.
2) Sergio Perez - I firmly believe Perez has not forgotten how to drive a racecar. He started the season with 4 podiums in the first 5 races, you don't fall off in terms of skill that hard, that quickly. The problem was, when Red Bull went in the wrong direction in terms of development, and then completely ignored his feedback, it completely destroyed his confidence and his drive. It's understandable that that happened, but at the end of the day those are things he can control, and by the end of this season, there's no plausible argument that he should still be in that car next year, aside from a legal one.
1) Mohamed Ben Sulayem - Egotistical, tyrannical, out of touch with everyone and everything besides himself. An absolute embarrassment and will likely set the sport back decades - if not by his own hand, then by that of his successor, as whoever succeeds him will undoubtedly be someone who is so unwilling to rock the boat in any direction that they won't make any of the necessary changes until it's too little, too late.
2) Sergio Perez - I firmly believe Perez has not forgotten how to drive a racecar. He started the season with 4 podiums in the first 5 races, you don't fall off in terms of skill that hard, that quickly. The problem was, when Red Bull went in the wrong direction in terms of development, and then completely ignored his feedback, it completely destroyed his confidence and his drive. It's understandable that that happened, but at the end of the day those are things he can control, and by the end of this season, there's no plausible argument that he should still be in that car next year, aside from a legal one.
1) Mohamed Ben Sulayem - Egotistical, tyrannical, out of touch with everyone and everything besides himself. An absolute embarrassment and will likely set the sport back decades - if not by his own hand, then by that of his successor, as whoever succeeds him will undoubtedly be someone who is so unwilling to rock the boat in any direction that they won't make any of the necessary changes until it's too little, too late.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
Feel like I can offer some inside views here, but I think the general mood is pretty well encapsulated.
Not going for Williams because it was always evident that it would be a tricky year - probably could have got a better car out but growing pains needed to happen with changing processes. Alpine was a shoo-in until it sorted itself out, Ricciardo is gone, Sargeant is gone, and we know what Stroll's about, so no need to pontificate further!
3. Sauber - Had a car in the early season that could have nabbed a few points, but issues with new pit equipment cast those chances asunder. Development was not particularly forthcoming as team focused pretty much its entire attention on building for 2026. Hoffmann/Seidl internecine conflict led to both being let go, and Binotto coming on board refocused attention on actually doing something for next season. Dossed Bottas about massively, but at least did well in the driver market with Hulkenberg/Bortoleto. Zhou heroics spared blushes.
2. Ben Sulayem - Attempting to be some kind of Sepp Blatter/Jean-Marie Balestre hybrid. Autocratic approach to running governing body led to firings because people didn't completely agree with him, hired an "adviser" that disappeared for a few months from the paddock because he was under legal action from the Wolffs, sacked a perfectly competent race director, lost other staff, and has rendered the FIA a place people don't really want to work at. Plus so much more that I'm sure will see the light of day soon...
1. Perez - I mean, inevitable - the stats don't lie, he's the worst team-mate to a champion driver since the Benetton days. Has scored nine points in the last eight races. Cost Red Bull a constructors' title.
Not going for Williams because it was always evident that it would be a tricky year - probably could have got a better car out but growing pains needed to happen with changing processes. Alpine was a shoo-in until it sorted itself out, Ricciardo is gone, Sargeant is gone, and we know what Stroll's about, so no need to pontificate further!
3. Sauber - Had a car in the early season that could have nabbed a few points, but issues with new pit equipment cast those chances asunder. Development was not particularly forthcoming as team focused pretty much its entire attention on building for 2026. Hoffmann/Seidl internecine conflict led to both being let go, and Binotto coming on board refocused attention on actually doing something for next season. Dossed Bottas about massively, but at least did well in the driver market with Hulkenberg/Bortoleto. Zhou heroics spared blushes.
2. Ben Sulayem - Attempting to be some kind of Sepp Blatter/Jean-Marie Balestre hybrid. Autocratic approach to running governing body led to firings because people didn't completely agree with him, hired an "adviser" that disappeared for a few months from the paddock because he was under legal action from the Wolffs, sacked a perfectly competent race director, lost other staff, and has rendered the FIA a place people don't really want to work at. Plus so much more that I'm sure will see the light of day soon...
1. Perez - I mean, inevitable - the stats don't lie, he's the worst team-mate to a champion driver since the Benetton days. Has scored nine points in the last eight races. Cost Red Bull a constructors' title.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
Sadly as much as I was pleased Red Bull gave him a shot or he was out of F1 4 years ago, I too have to give it to Checo
I kind of wish he'd signed for one of the lower teams much earlier in the season - he'd be absolutely fine if he was in say a Haas or an Alpine.
I kind of wish he'd signed for one of the lower teams much earlier in the season - he'd be absolutely fine if he was in say a Haas or an Alpine.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". (Tony Jardine, 1988)
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
It's also the way in which Perez's season collapsed so comprehensively - having scored 103 points in the first six races, he could only muster 49 points in the next 18. That's an average of only 2.7 points a race, and as others have noted, it's even worse when you look at the final third of the season, where he could only manage 9 points in 8 races (only just over a point a race).rachel1990 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2024, 16:26 Gold- Sergio Perez
It does feel like kicking a puppy sometimes but let's be honest. His teammate won the driver's championship. He came 8th. Max won 9 races and got 14 podiums overall. Sergio got 4 podiums 0 wins and none since China. 285 point difference. Sergio would be boxed in races to get out of Max's way. He cost Red Bull at least 2nd in the constructors. 1 good race between China and the end of the season (Baku but he got 0 points in this race) Red Bull tried to stop the slide but it looks like they have surrendered and it looks like its the end of his career in f1.
Whatever inspired that collapse in form, it's got to the point where it's hard to see how Perez can turn things around when the first race of the 2025 season is less than 100 days away (it's barely not even three months until the first tests of 2025). The ongoing speculation over his position, the feuding with the press and difficulties in his personal life seem to have become so deeply rooted in his psychosis that it's hard to see how to get those issues out of his head.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
For me there is only one reject of the season...
Christian bath-plugging Horner.
(1) there is strong evidence (shared across the paddock and reported widely) that he used his power and influence to sexually harass a vulnerable female employee, then used that same power and influence to ensure he kept his job. He wins for this alone but...
(2) he failed to retain a key asset (Adrian Newey) in the team, possibly because of (1)
(3) he failed to restrain Jos Verstappen's influence on the team's drivers (see 7 below)
(4) he failed to handle the Sergio Perez situation in a timely and fair manner, likely to cost the team £millions, and he seems to have messed up the contract
(5) he failed to retain the Constructors Championship despite having generational talents in the car and the design shop, also likely to cost the team £millions
(6) he chose to play the accounting games that, when discovered, meant his team lost wind tunnel time, also a significant factor in the car performance
(7) he allowed Jos Verstappen to prevent hiring Carlos Sainz - clearly a far better driver than current Perez or any of the junior driver options - because of an inter-personal beef
(8) he begins 2025 with one driver looking to leave if the car does not perform and another with little proven success compared with those in the other leading teams, and a beatable car design whilst the design team will be looking to the 2026 regulations
Horner needs to go and be replaced by some-one who can build the team spirit and mutual respect apparent in Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes, otherwise the Red Bull asset will lose value as it drops down the grid.
Geri and F1 deserve better.
Christian bath-plugging Horner.
(1) there is strong evidence (shared across the paddock and reported widely) that he used his power and influence to sexually harass a vulnerable female employee, then used that same power and influence to ensure he kept his job. He wins for this alone but...
(2) he failed to retain a key asset (Adrian Newey) in the team, possibly because of (1)
(3) he failed to restrain Jos Verstappen's influence on the team's drivers (see 7 below)
(4) he failed to handle the Sergio Perez situation in a timely and fair manner, likely to cost the team £millions, and he seems to have messed up the contract
(5) he failed to retain the Constructors Championship despite having generational talents in the car and the design shop, also likely to cost the team £millions
(6) he chose to play the accounting games that, when discovered, meant his team lost wind tunnel time, also a significant factor in the car performance
(7) he allowed Jos Verstappen to prevent hiring Carlos Sainz - clearly a far better driver than current Perez or any of the junior driver options - because of an inter-personal beef
(8) he begins 2025 with one driver looking to leave if the car does not perform and another with little proven success compared with those in the other leading teams, and a beatable car design whilst the design team will be looking to the 2026 regulations
Horner needs to go and be replaced by some-one who can build the team spirit and mutual respect apparent in Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes, otherwise the Red Bull asset will lose value as it drops down the grid.
Geri and F1 deserve better.
- Salamander
- Posts: 9611
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
You make a convincing argument. I'll amend my podium to put him 2nd, and Perez 3rd.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
While your overall argument is valid, I must say that the general consensus now is that the "leaked" evidence was at best exaggerated, and at worst outright fabricated. When known rumor mongers like Jenna Fryer and Joe Saward don't share/credit it (Fryer even called it "dubious", which coming from her is.....well ironic) it does give you pause.
I'm not saying that Horner isn't a womanizing POS, but that the big dropbox file doesn't actually prove it either way.
Professional Historian/Semi-Retired Drag Racer/Whiskey Enthusiast
"When I was still racing, I never once thought 'Oh, I can't damage the car here'." - Jolyn Palmer
Me either Jolyn, maybe that's why we're both out, eh?
"When I was still racing, I never once thought 'Oh, I can't damage the car here'." - Jolyn Palmer
Me either Jolyn, maybe that's why we're both out, eh?
- Ataxia
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Re: 2024 Reject of the season
I was "lucky enough" to be sent the folder too, so I've seen *everything* in it. But there's lots of context surrounding it that those images alone (which are definitely between Horner and his secretary, but 90% of the images show how dull Horner is) don't show. I can provide said context in DMs if anyone's curious, although I've probably explained it to those on Discord.
What's amusing is that the folder was sent to everybody in the paddock on the FIA's mailing lists - except Ayao Komatsu, whose email address was spelled wrong.
What's amusing is that the folder was sent to everybody in the paddock on the FIA's mailing lists - except Ayao Komatsu, whose email address was spelled wrong.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
You offering to send DM's sounds a bit suspicious in this contextAtaxia wrote: ↑12 Dec 2024, 11:04 I was "lucky enough" to be sent the folder too, so I've seen *everything* in it. But there's lots of context surrounding it that those images alone (which are definitely between Horner and his secretary, but 90% of the images show how dull Horner is) don't show. I can provide said context in DMs if anyone's curious, although I've probably explained it to those on Discord.
What's amusing is that the folder was sent to everybody in the paddock on the FIA's mailing lists - except Ayao Komatsu, whose email address was spelled wrong.
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
Oh and (9) failed to get sponsorship deals that did not depend on Checo whilst Max was losing his - a risky eggs/basket jeopardy situationIceG wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 14:26 For me there is only one reject of the season...
Christian bath-plugging Horner.
(1) there is strong evidence (shared across the paddock and reported widely) that he used his power and influence to sexually harass a vulnerable female employee, then used that same power and influence to ensure he kept his job. He wins for this alone but...
(2) he failed to retain a key asset (Adrian Newey) in the team, possibly because of (1)
(3) he failed to restrain Jos Verstappen's influence on the team's drivers (see 7 below)
(4) he failed to handle the Sergio Perez situation in a timely and fair manner, likely to cost the team £millions, and he seems to have messed up the contract
(5) he failed to retain the Constructors Championship despite having generational talents in the car and the design shop, also likely to cost the team £millions
(6) he chose to play the accounting games that, when discovered, meant his team lost wind tunnel time, also a significant factor in the car performance
(7) he allowed Jos Verstappen to prevent hiring Carlos Sainz - clearly a far better driver than current Perez or any of the junior driver options - because of an inter-personal beef
(8) he begins 2025 with one driver looking to leave if the car does not perform and another with little proven success compared with those in the other leading teams, and a beatable car design whilst the design team will be looking to the 2026 regulations
Horner needs to go and be replaced by some-one who can build the team spirit and mutual respect apparent in Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes, otherwise the Red Bull asset will lose value as it drops down the grid.
Geri and F1 deserve better.
Re: 2024 Reject of the season
Judging from the comments made by Ataxia, it seems to be leaning more towards the former - it does sound as if there was Bismark-esque "selective editing" of the messages between the two sides by a third party interested in exploiting the situation for their own ends.Wallio wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 17:14While your overall argument is valid, I must say that the general consensus now is that the "leaked" evidence was at best exaggerated, and at worst outright fabricated. When known rumor mongers like Jenna Fryer and Joe Saward don't share/credit it (Fryer even called it "dubious", which coming from her is.....well ironic) it does give you pause.
I'm not saying that Horner isn't a womanizing POS, but that the big dropbox file doesn't actually prove it either way.
That said, given that some other teams do seem to have targeted Red Bull when poaching staff, I do wonder how long Horner might have been able to keep hold of some of their most senior staff.
Red Bull lost Jonathan Wheatley, but it's worth noting that Helmut Marko has actually defended Horner on that front by pointing out that Wheatley had been looking for a promotion that Red Bull couldn't offer, nor the sort of salary that Wheatley would have wanted if he had got that promotion. There is a similar situation with Will Courtenay, where he's gone to McLaren to get a promotion to sporting director that, at the time he negotiated that deal, wasn't available at Red Bull.
As for Newey, as time has gone on, I've wondered quite how much is down to that factor, and how much might have been down to what Stroll could offer that Horner could not. Even though Newey had considerable authority at Red Bull, we know that he's expressed a desire to effectively manage the entire operations of the technical departure of a team - a degree of control that would be beyond what Red Bull would accept, or indeed what most teams were prepared to accept, but which Stroll seems to have been prepared to accept.
Additionally, Stroll could offer something that Horner certainly couldn't, and which nobody else seemed prepared to either - which was making him a co-owner of the team by offering him shares. Again, it's something Newey has wanted for a long time, and it's something that drove him to leave other teams in the past when they also rejected those proposals - Horner could never offer that, given neither of the two families running Red Bull would accept that, but Stroll was in a position to be able to give Newey those shares in Aston Martin.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"