Turkish GP Discussion thread

[TomWazzleshaw]

Hello and welcome to the 2009 Turkish GP Discussion/Preview/Review thread.
Free Practice will be starting tomorrow and so far we have 3 genuine competitive teams vying for the win (Brawn, Red Bull and Ferrari) but only one team can win it. Who will it be?
There's also a more interesting scrap between McLaren, The Force, Toro Rosso and BMW at the back at the field. Who will be the winners and losers here?
Also as our competition question for this round: Who will be the first to have a major off at Turn 8?

[BorderReiver]

You can never discount Massa in Turkey, for all the guy's faults for some reason he flies in Istanbul, however will the Ferrari be up to the job?

I think this is potentially one of the tightest races in what has been a very tight season up until now. I suspect the Red Bull is actually the fastest car out there when the circuit embodies a bit of everything (like Istanbul does) and Brawn are going to need some determined driving and more strategic brilliance to beat them again. Ferrari won't be far behind either.

Toyota might well surprise a few people too, they are abysmal in Monaco yes, but Istanbul will suit them much better and that Toyota can be very fast when it's working well.

My gut says Vettel to win, Button and Massa to podium.

[TomWazzleshaw]

You also have to remember that the surprise packet in all this could very well be Williams... they're fast on empty tanks and as we saw at Monaco they're definatly half decent on full ones at race time. They do have flashes of brilliance but no consistancy to go with it. Let's just hope that they have a competitive and consistant weekend

[TomWazzleshaw]

Free Practice 1 started a few minutes ago. Any predictions for the session and for the weekend in general?

[Bleu]

FP1 gone and as expected, Nico Rosberg was the fastest.

[Pedro_Diniz]

Massa does love this track and I'm sure Ferrari will be up there fighting for it after the improvements we saw at Monaco... as for turn 8, let's see how many excursions Piquet willl have...

[Pedro_Diniz]

Oh my... Nakajima and Fisichella

[Alianora La Canta]

Well... ...it was a surprise ending. Though it makes it two FP2s in succession that Fisi has ended up disputing a piece of track with someone else more frenetically than the usually-genteel pace of the session would indicate was required.

[Yannick]

Empty seats are a bit of a common sight in Kurtkoy this year, aren't they? I just read a rumour that Bernie's FOM TV has removed two cameras to avoid pictures of empty stands being shown on TV. In Monaco, there were also quite a few empty seats.

Does that indicate that the "empty seats" are in fact campaigning for the Reject Of the Year Award?

[TomWazzleshaw]

McLaren looks like they might be back to competivness and back they are.
BMW seems compeitive as well for once and Brawn are nowhere to be seen... something tells me this is going to be one interesting race...

[RejectSteve]

Empty seats are a bit of a common sight in Kurtkoy this year, aren't they? I just read a rumour that Bernie's FOM TV has removed two cameras to avoid pictures of empty stands being shown on TV. In Monaco, there were also quite a few empty seats.

Does that indicate that the "empty seats" are in fact campaigning for the Reject Of the Year Award?

Don't forget that for the last two years, Shanghai International Circuit has Expo 2010 displays plastered over the unused sections at the banked corner (14?). The only difference is that the Turkish organisers don't care and the Chinese need to save face.

Didn't a certain site author predict a Williams taking practice honours?

[TomWazzleshaw]

Final Pracitce has finished and Ferrari and Toyota look like the teams to beat but down't discount Brawn yet. Strange to see yesterday's on form team McLaren so far down and Webber being absolutly nowhere all weekend so far. Hope our national sporting hero has a good weekend from here on in.

[CarlosFerreira]

FP3 is now over. As the tracks cleans, Massa edges to the top spot. As predicted.

It seems the tyres are going to be the main issue. Yesterday, in FP2, Vettel parked it after 10 minutes or so and still got 4th (I think) because the track cooled 5ºC and no-one could improve. Remember who is it that walks the walk when the tyres aren't exactly perfect? Exactly, our Jens.

So, between Brawn and Ferrari it is. I'd like to see Felipe get that first KERS-powered win just to show everyone else that KERS can be an advantage and that if they can't integrate it and be faster with 80hp extra, they're being technically rubbish.

I'm predicting one the Toyota drivers to drop it on turn 8. That car seems to have an excellent aero package, but no mechanical grip at all. The moment one of them put a wheel off the best (read cleanest) line, they've had it.

[Shadaza]

Did you see Vettels attempts to "help" the marshalls pull the car. Mucho Mucho Man

[CarlosFerreira]

Did you see Vettels attempts to "help" the marshalls pull the car. Mucho Mucho Man

I did. Laughed my head off for 5 minutes or so, I swear the Marshalls were just ordering him about.
I also thought that was a bit risky, and one of the Williams came close to proving me right. Come on, Sebastian! If it was you that turned it off and braked to park it, at least park it on the carpet, not on the exit of a superfast corner.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Hamilton 16th for the 2nd race in a row. Oh dear...
Glock being outshone by Trulli basically all weekend which is quite surprising.
Looks like another weekend to forget for McLaren. They've had far too many of those this season.

[Nin13]

That was good qualifying. Its very close between 2 Brawns and 2 Red Bull.
At first, I thought Toyota and Ferrari would be up there looking at their Q2 times but may be they are fueled longer. We will have to wait for fuel loads to be out.
But best Ferrari is starting 6th so it looks unlikely that they challenge top 2 during start.

Trulli and Webber will have tough time keeping those Ferraris behind.

Lets see what fuel loads say.

But Red Bull and Brawn fight for win looks very good. Then Ferrari, Toyota behind them.

BTW hats off to Force India, especially Sutil who got Force India again in Q2. They look to be faster than Toro Rosso and Mclaren. Slightly slower than BMW, Renault. Good if they can get some points.

[CarlosFerreira]

True. The inboard shot shows how unstable the rear end on that McLaren is. Pure rubbish.

Compare that to Sutil; second race past Q1. What a hero!

As for the people in front, I didn't expect Vettel to get pole after yesterday's "park and push" that lost him over an hour. I want to see those weights...

[Pedro_Diniz]

Impressed by Sutil again, hopefully Force India can get some points after a few decent performances.

I was slightly disappointed by the Toro Rossos. They seem to have run out of a bit of steam since we've hit Europe, hopefully they can keep up the progression we're seeing with their sister team.

McLaren... well, what can I say? Hamilton doesn't look comfortable in that car at all and it's shocking that Kovalainen got something out of the car yet Hamilton couldn't.

I'll be interested in seeing the fuel weights, I'm going to bet that Ferrari are slightly heavy and will hope that a KERS blast into turn 1 will help them with a long first stint.

[Henrique]

Sutil right next to Hamilton. That will bring back memories

[Nin13]

Button’s Brawn is fuelled around two laps longer than Vettel and Mark Webber, fourth on the grid, is fuelled even further.


Also worth noting:
* Alonso running light again, though it didn’t help him in qualifying. Is he planning to start on the soft tyre?
* Button and Raikkonen out-qualified their team mates despite carrying more fuel.
* Getting into the top ten hasn’t paid off for Kubica - he starts next to his team mate with much less fuel on board.

It looks like battle between Red Bull and Brawn. Top 4 are pitting within a lap each other.
So we can expect some good stuff tomorrow.

Brawns get better start especially Rubens, so I will not be surprised to see him 1st at end of lap 1.

Trulli is running bit light. Ferrari are unlikely to get podium because they have similar fuel to top 4.
Ferrari's only hope is to use KERS and get into top 3 or 4 on lap 1 but Turkey start finish straight is small so advantage will be not much. But down the back straight they might get a place or two.

Alonso seems to be lost out. But he must be using softer tires first.

Lot will depend on which tires are used when.

[CarlosFerreira]

Interesting, Webber is running Barrichello for 3rd, while Vettel and Button are dicing for the lead. It's going to be a great race as long as no one blows it on the first corner.

[Irisado]

I'm not getting my hopes up for an exciting race. Turkish Grand Prix usually promise a lot, but fail to deliver. About the only real drama there has ever been at this circuit was in the 2006 race when Massa scored his first win, because Schumacher couldn't pass Alonso's Renault to take second place, and Alonso drove a great race to keep Schumacher behind him.

That apart, there has been precious little to write home about, and a distinct lack of overtaking on the track during races.

If they had actual gravel traps at some of these fast corners, such as turn eight, then the racing would be more dramatic in my view, as drivers would actually get quite badly punished for running off the circuit, and it would make for much more tense racing. I don't like all these 'get out of jail free' run off areas they have in F1 these days. I know a few of them were put in for safety reasons, but a lot of these tarmac run off areas seem very unnecessary to me.

As for who will win, it all depends on whether Vettel can make a good start, and how much of a lead he can build in his first stint over the Brawns and his team mate. One thing is for sure, and that is unless there is some unreliability (fat chance of that under these regulations), those four drivers are the only ones in with a shout of victory, and while I don't mind that, I do hope that the high temperatures actually cause some reliability issues for a change somewhere in the field. These levels of 'ultra' reliability really are not doing F1 any favours in my view.

As for McLaren, it was a bit of a disaster wasn't it. Hamilton being outqualified by Sutil, and Kovalainen being only one tenth faster than the Force India driver in Q2....Oh dear. A very good performance by Sutil though, and if a minor miracle occurs and of the teams in front have reliability issues, or some drivers ahead actually manage to spin far enough off the track to find a gravel trap (à la Piquet in qualifying), Force India could score a point.

[thehemogoblin]

Impressed by Sutil again, hopefully Force India can get some points after a few decent performances.

I was slightly disappointed by the Toro Rossos. They seem to have run out of a bit of steam since we've hit Europe, hopefully they can keep up the progression we're seeing with their sister team.

McLaren... well, what can I say? Hamilton doesn't look comfortable in that car at all and it's shocking that Kovalainen got something out of the car yet Hamilton couldn't.

I'll be interested in seeing the fuel weights, I'm going to bet that Ferrari are slightly heavy and will hope that a KERS blast into turn 1 will help them with a long first stint.

We should have known when they started testing the 09 car with the 08 wings.

[Irisado]

Well, that was as dull as I had feared. Insufficient overtaking, excessively good reliability (eighteen finishers in that heat is just ridiculous in my opinion), Vettel's off, and Barrichello's gearbox problem at the start meant that it was all over bar the shouting on lap one, and there were very few engaging battles in the midfield to keep an eye on either. A thoroughly insipid race as far as I am concerned.

Barrichello must be getting deja vu from the Schumacher years at Ferrari too, as it was his car which always used to have mechanical woes too, and I do wonder how serious his gearbox problem was at the end of the race, or whether he was retired, in order to avoid being lapped by his team mate (or am I just too cynical ). I would like to see Barrichello win some races this year, but he seems to be a better driver of bad cars, and when the team has a good car, he ends up losing out to his team mate (Schumacher at Ferrari, in 2002 and 2004 in particular, and now Button at Brawn, when he had been faster than Schumacher on a fair number of occasions at Ferrari in 2005, when they had a bad car, and he was faster than Button in last year's poor Honda too).

[StoneColdSpider]

that was dull... the new rules havnt helped with overtaking much at all

[CarlosFerreira]

that was dull... the new rules havnt helped with overtaking much at all

Nor for anyone close to Barrichello, though.

[Irisado]

that was dull... the new rules havnt helped with overtaking much at all

The cars can run in closer proximity to each other, so that at least is an improvement, but the changes to the aerodynamic regulations have evidently not gone far enough, I agree.

[Cynon]

I seem to recall hearing Peter Brock suggesting a few years ago that F1 should take the wings off the cars if they want to promote passing. Maybe that would have helped here?

Also, is it just me or was Rubens Barrichello testing out if F1 cars could do a bit of NASCAR-style beating and banging? ... only you can't really do that in Formula 1.... Barrichello to NASCAR?

This entire weekened was just bad for motorsport -- of the five races I saw throughout the course of the weekend (ARCA, NASCAR Trucks, NASCAR Cup, IRL, F1), none of them were any good, but I thought the Turkish GP was the best just because of Barrichello's comedy of errors race and his Damon Hill-esque retirement.