GRSJN!

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:00

Renault has no plans to name an official replacement third driver, with Ho-Pin Tung still sidelined with the back injury he suffered in Hungary. (quoted from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86093)

Romain Grosjean will return to GP2 again for DAMS in Belgium this weekend as replacement for the injured Ho-Pin Tung.
"It's never very nice to replace another driver due to injury, and I really wish Ho-Pin a quick recovery," said the Frenchman, who also raced for DAMS in AutoGP earlier this year. "While awaiting his return, I'm delighted to be able to lend a hand to the DAMS team. (quoted from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86096)

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:31

The new management has made a U-turn apparently...before they'd just cut him loose, now they're brining him back into the Junior fold again. Weird this...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:44

kostas22 wrote:The new management has made a U-turn apparently...before they'd just cut him loose, now they're brining him back into the Junior fold again. Weird this...

Or maybe they're just seeking for a capable replacement.

Post by **mario** » 25 Aug 2010, 12:45

Yannick wrote:Renault has no plans to name an official replacement third driver, with Ho-Pin Tung still sidelined with the back injury he suffered in Hungary. (quoted from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86093)

Romain Grosjean will return to GP2 again for DAMS in Belgium this weekend as replacement for the injured Ho-Pin Tung.
"It's never very nice to replace another driver due to injury, and I really wish Ho-Pin a quick recovery," said the Frenchman, who also raced for DAMS in AutoGP earlier this year. "While awaiting his return, I'm delighted to be able to lend a hand to the DAMS team. (quoted from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86096)

Ah, so that could explain why he has left the Matech GT1 team recently http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86001
Sounds like a sensible enough decision - he has enough experience to be able to run reasonably competitively, so he should be a fairly competent replacement for Tung. Overall, though, what is the betting that at the time when Renault don't have a spare driver available, one of their main drivers will be unavailable (Murphy's Law at its finest)?

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 25 Aug 2010, 14:31

All I can say is YOU CAN'T KEEP ME DOWN! I am indubitably Indomitable!

Sincerely,

The properly phonetically pronounced Grosjean

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 25 Aug 2010, 15:58

Out of all the drivers that did not score last year, I think "Row Man Gross-Gene" deserves a seat more than anyone else.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 Aug 2010, 21:42

JeremyMcClean wrote:Out of all the drivers that did not score last year, I think "Row Man Gross-Gene" deserves a seat more than anyone else.

Luca Badoer begs to differ.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 25 Aug 2010, 22:35

There was that article in last week's Autosport about how the new drivers simply don't getting the mileage under their belts before entering the sport, Grosjean being a classic example. They reckoned he'd never get another shot at F1 now, and to be honest I agree with them. That is unless the grid expands to 1989 levels again which whilst awesome, would be highly unlikely!

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 26 Aug 2010, 00:10

shinji wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Out of all the drivers that did not score last year, I think "Row Man Gross-Gene" deserves a seat more than anyone else.

Luca Badoer begs to differ.

Hmm, in the same car that Räikkonën went to glory in 2009, Badoer went like a pig. Then again, so did Fisichella once he got his Ferrari seat, so something fishy might have been going on there.

I don't think after THAT preformance, Badoer won't get a seat, unless Colin Kolles thinks up some brilliant plan to bring him around in a HRT. As for "Row man Gross-gene," he only entered his first season in a pig of a Renault, replacing Nelson Piquet Jr for obvious reasons. He deserves a better seat than that, and to add to the fact, he's only 24, I think he has a few more years left in him. Before he was picked up by Renault in 2009, he was in the GP2 series, then 2nd (and still placed 4th despite being absent for a good part of the season). Considering the three drivers above him, Petrov, Hülkenburg and Di Grassi got a drive easily, I think Grosjean should have a drive in F1.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 26 Aug 2010, 11:22

JeremyMcClean wrote:
shinji wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Out of all the drivers that did not score last year, I think "Row Man Gross-Gene" deserves a seat more than anyone else.

Luca Badoer begs to differ.

Hmm, in the same car that Räikkonën went to glory in 2009, Badoer went like a pig. Then again, so did Fisichella once he got his Ferrari seat, so something fishy might have been going on there.

I don't think after THAT preformance, Badoer won't get a seat, unless Colin Kolles thinks up some brilliant plan to bring him around in a HRT. As for "Row man Gross-gene," he only entered his first season in a pig of a Renault, replacing Nelson Piquet Jr for obvious reasons. He deserves a better seat than that, and to add to the fact, he's only 24, I think he has a few more years left in him. Before he was picked up by Renault in 2009, he was in the GP2 series, then 2nd (and still placed 4th despite being absent for a good part of the season). Considering the three drivers above him, Petrov, Hülkenburg and Di Grassi got a drive easily, I think Grosjean should have a drive in F1.

A heroic pig.

coops · Post by **coops** » 26 Aug 2010, 16:43

JeremyMcClean wrote:Hmm, in the same car that Räikkonën went to glory in 2009, Badoer went like a pig.

I agree with Shinji. A heroic pig. A pig that knew that this was its last chance to avoid the plate but no matter how hard it tried people kept opening the ketchup bottle in readiness.

B45T4RD5.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 26 Aug 2010, 21:16

coops wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Hmm, in the same car that Räikkonën went to glory in 2009, Badoer went like a pig.

I agree with Shinji. A heroic pig. A pig that knew that this was its last chance to avoid the plate but no matter how hard it tried people kept opening the ketchup bottle in readiness.

B45T4RD5.

Yeah. Just think how would have Schumacher fared...

Post by **mario** » 26 Aug 2010, 21:33

JeremyMcClean wrote:
shinji wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Out of all the drivers that did not score last year, I think "Row Man Gross-Gene" deserves a seat more than anyone else.

Luca Badoer begs to differ.

Hmm, in the same car that Räikkonën went to glory in 2009, Badoer went like a pig. Then again, so did Fisichella once he got his Ferrari seat, so something fishy might have been going on there.

I don't think after THAT preformance, Badoer won't get a seat, unless Colin Kolles thinks up some brilliant plan to bring him around in a HRT. As for "Row man Gross-gene," he only entered his first season in a pig of a Renault, replacing Nelson Piquet Jr for obvious reasons. He deserves a better seat than that, and to add to the fact, he's only 24, I think he has a few more years left in him. Before he was picked up by Renault in 2009, he was in the GP2 series, then 2nd (and still placed 4th despite being absent for a good part of the season). Considering the three drivers above him, Petrov, Hülkenburg and Di Grassi got a drive easily, I think Grosjean should have a drive in F1.

I suppose that there are some points to be made in his defence - Spa was the first time in 10 months that he had driven the car in anger, and Fisichella suggested that as the KERS system charged up under braking, the brake balance would shift, making the rear of the car less stable under heavy braking and difficult to drive.
Even so, it is a little odd that Badoer wasn't taking Eau Rouge flat out, when the car was easily capable of doing so - hell, the BBC was showing footage of the 1987 race, and you could hear Satoru Nakajima managed to take Eau Rouge flat out in his Lotus. Surely, given how much the cars have developed, Badoer was probably taking Eau Rouge flat out when driving for Minardi - so why couldn't he manage it a decade later?

As for whether Grosjean should have a seat in F1, I am a little ambivalent. Having watched the practise sessions at Singapore, what struck me was that he didn't seem to be that confident inside the car, judging by the radio chatter. At one point, he had a new set of brake disks installed, and you could hear the engineers instructing him to be careful not to glaze the brakes up, and to take it easy to begin with to let them bed in. What did he do? Halfway round the lap, he went far too deep into a corner, locked his brakes and nearly got stuck down a side road, which meant he had to reverse back onto the track before having to cruise back to the pits to replace the tyres he had flat spotted.
OK, perhaps it was a slightly harsh example to use - everyone makes mistakes, especially in such a high pressure environment - but I honestly think that whilst he does deserve a drive in F1 at some point (if only because his previous GP2 form has shown that he must have some talent), spending a bit of time in another racing series honing his skills might do him some good, and put him in a better position for a second shot at F1.

danardif1 · Post by **danardif1** » 26 Aug 2010, 23:16

I'd like to see Rmmmnnn Grrrsjnnn back in an F1 seat... he's one of the major 'yoof' talents, and has done a damn sight more in his Junior career than the likes of Chandhok, Petrov, Senna and Alguersuari...

He needed more seat time, and suffered from being in the maelstrom of Renault's meltdown last year, of which beforehand he was actually competing fairly well with Alonso, getting within 3 tenths of him on his debut in Valencia...

If Renault are eyeing getting him back into their nest again, I suggest they find a seat for him for next year... perhaps Sauber would like him alongside the Great One??? Or a Virgin seat if Glock is on his way out?? Somewhere where he can rack up the miles and at least try to make an impression on F1, because I think he's got the talent to...

Some drivers need to get used to F1, some others like Kobayashi can just jump in and make things happen...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Aug 2010, 06:26

danardif1 wrote:If Renault are eyeing getting him back into their nest again, I suggest they find a seat for him for next year... perhaps Sauber would like him alongside the Great One??? Or a Virgin seat if Glock is on his way out?? Somewhere where he can rack up the miles and at least try to make an impression on F1, because I think he's got the talent to...

Glock confirmed several months ago that he's staying with Virgin didn't he?

On a more relevent note why do I see Grosjean going to Lotus if they do use the Renault engine next season?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 27 Aug 2010, 14:16

The problem with Grosjean has to do with the lack of in-season testing. Normally newbies would be able to test before debuting being test drivers and gain valuable experience. Not anymore. This in-season testing ban is ludicrous and should be removed as soon as possible.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 27 Aug 2010, 15:42

Phoenix wrote:The problem with Grosjean has to do with the lack of in-season testing. Normally newbies would be able to test before debuting being test drivers and gain valuable experience. Not anymore. This in-season testing ban is ludicrous and should be removed as soon as possible.

Agreed 100%. It's a daft rule that isn't saving money and is causing issues with the future crop of F1 stars (I'm looking at Petrov, Hulkenberg, Di Grassi, etc.)

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 16 Sep 2010, 15:32

It seems that Grosjean is to take over tyre testing duties for Pirelli.

(F1 Fanatic)

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 16 Sep 2010, 15:44

eagleash wrote:It seems that Grosjean is to take over tyre testing duties for Pirelli.

(F1 Fanatic)

That's great! With his extensive F1 experience and widely recognised Championship-challenging pace, Grosjean is bound to help produce awesome* tyres, making the races much more interesting.

*by which I mean "crap"

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 16 Sep 2010, 17:18

It's good to see the "man with no vowels" will be back in an F1 car, even if it's just tyre testing. I had hoped Pirelli would choose Pedro De La Rosa, but apparently, they went for somebody else. Driving for Pirelli has been a good career move for Heidfeld. Will it also be one for GRSJN? Probably.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 17 Sep 2010, 02:37

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86719

Autosport has picked up on this story, and I presume Pirelli will keep GRSJN! as their test driver for the foreseeable future. I still don't think he's good enough for the Renault seat, but he could get a spot in the backmarker teams.

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 17 Sep 2010, 08:45

Teams at the back usually ask for some cash and Grosjean most certainly doesn't have it. Besides, his antics in 2009 when he embarrassingly got swallowed by the pack at Interlagos or Singapore disaster when he struggled with brake bias have convinced me that he's not a F1 material whatsoever. Kamui Kobayashi has set a high standard on how to impress in a limited time availabale but let's face it, Grosjean was a huge disappointement even compared to Alonso as a teammate.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 17 Sep 2010, 09:44

I very much disagree with you. He was great in GP2 last year, comprehensively beating Petrov and was leading it before he got into F1. Then he got a crack at F1 in a team that was in probably most terrible conditions (Singapore gate) and a terrible car, and he didn't even have any testing (Kobayashi did test TF109 at least), and his teammate was freaking Alonso who is one of the fastest guys in F1, and he was only around 0,3 -0,5s behind him which is better than Petrov is fairing against Kubica this year.

In 2010 he impressed in GT1 and was right on the pace in every series he entered (Auto GP, GP2), so I would say that your assessment of GRSJN is very superficial and nearsighted, and IMO he deserves another, PROPER, chance at F1.

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 17 Sep 2010, 10:37

As Kobayashi's example shows, you don't have to be a GP2 kingpin to get hooked up with F1. In fact, more GP2 and F3000 front runners before have failed to deliver in the big league (Boullion, Zonta, Pantano) then some of the second tier rivals. I bet nobody remembers when Jackie Stewart called Jan Magnussen 'the best F3 driver since Senna" and most certainly nobody compares Magnussen to Senna now.

For GP2 standards Grosjean is good, even very good but that counts for little in the big league and his brief F1 stint showed his serious lacks in the armour. Unless he was convinced he's got the seat full-time in 2011 no matter what's going to happen, he took it way too cautious and got eaten up and spitted by the F1 real world. He showed no heart or courage out there on the track and no wonder nobody put him on their shortlist (very much against to Kobayashi).

Right now, he'd be better off in sports cars, Super League or GP2 as the second coming of Marco Apicella. Because he's not a pay-driver, his chances for F1 return are very unlikely and quite frankly he doesn't deserve a second shot at it. You have to get the groove on quickly these days in F1 or you'd gonna be left out instead and that's what happened to Mr Grosjean. Another over-hyped talent who just couldn't make it stick when it mattered.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 17 Sep 2010, 10:45

Just like Fisichella couldn't make it stick at Ferrari? :lol:

But then again, he was on the podium in Spa. So what's all that then? I don't think you can count a post Singapore-gate crappy Renault stint (where he wasn't THAT far off the pace of Alonso) as a proper chance in F1, just like you couldn't evaluate Fisico as a driver, only based on his performances in Ferrari. I think you're pretty much being unfair to Grosjean.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 17 Sep 2010, 13:11

My assessment of Grosjean is that of a quite competent driver who did well to perform better than Piquetinho Chivatinho, especially considering he didn't test the car before. However, a little bit more of spark from him would've been nice, and, all in all, to leave a successful GP2 campaign half to take a seat on a team that was in trouble was not wise.

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 17 Sep 2010, 14:10

Mister Fungus wrote:Just like Fisichella couldn't make it stick at Ferrari?

But then again, he was on the podium in Spa. So what's all that then? I don't think you can count a post Singapore-gate crappy Renault stint (where he wasn't THAT far off the pace of Alonso) as a proper chance in F1, just like you couldn't evaluate Fisico as a driver, only based on his performances in Ferrari. I think you're pretty much being unfair to Grosjean.

Fisichella made his name in Jordan and Benetton at age 25 and not in Ferrari at age 36. Last time I checked Grosjean wasn't 36

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 17 Sep 2010, 16:12

Exactly. The point was how hard a mid season change of a car (which was a dog) was for an experienced driver like Fisichella who had driven a 2009 F1 car before that, so Grosjean did well seeing as he was in a similar dog of car and when compared to his 2xWDC partner. Unlike him Kobayashi at least tested the TF109, and was in a much better car with a worse teammate, so those two can't be compared really.

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 17 Sep 2010, 16:24

Fisichella had nothing to lose when switching to Ferrari and was probably aware of his F1 career being over after 2010 whereas Grosjean had everything to win by sticking with it no matter of the circumstances. His Interlagos weekend was probably the most embarrassing with numerous spins in practice and the race itself where he'd been overtaken left, right & centre. That's just plain mediocre stuff from an alleged GP2 star even for a completely new track and the car that's far from a rocket ship.

watka · Post by **watka** » 17 Sep 2010, 20:39

Man, GRSJN gonna have to take time off from his bank job again. I wonder how much holiday he's got left for the year. :mrgreen:

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 18 Sep 2010, 01:22

I'd like to see Grossgene come back soon.

Vassago wrote:As Kobayashi's example shows, you don't have to be a GP2 kingpin to get hooked up with F1. In fact, more GP2 and F3000 front runners before have failed to deliver in the big league (Boullion, Zonta, Pantano) then some of the second tier rivals. I bet nobody remembers when Jackie Stewart called Jan Magnussen 'the best F3 driver since Senna" and most certainly nobody compares Magnussen to Senna now.

Firstly, Kobayashi has indeed shown that you don't have to do heroics in lower categories to be good in F1, but in all fairness to the 3 men whom you have mentioned, Boullion was thrown into the Sauber seat mid-season, without much testing, but scored 3 points nonetheless. 3 points in 11 races, fine, not very nice, but he still did considerably well, considering how he was just forced in like that. Had he been in F1 in 1996, I think he might have improved. As for Zonta, the BAR01 was a dog, as simple as that. He was a rookie, while his teammates Villeneuve and Salo had years of F1 experience, so it was only logical he struggled. 2000 wasn't very heroic, but BAR weren't very helpful were they? As for Pantano, yes, he came 2nd and 3rd in F3000, but once again, the EJ14 was another dog of a car. Fine, Glock scored points on his debut, but only because 4 cars were disqualified and another 6 retired. Heidfeld outqualified him by nearly a whole second, and Pantano usually did well to keep the gap between himself and Quick Nick at least under a second. I think Pantano, like all the others, simply weren't given enough time to mature properly. Boullion was driving for a Sauber which was still in its infancy, hence looking for results. Zonta really was there because BAR just wanted a second driver, and so nearly no attention was directed towards him. Everybody knew that a single mistake was enough for him to get the boot. Both Zonta and Pantano had dogs to drive in their first season, not helping their confidence in any way. People like Kobayashi have the ability to just jump in and get the job done, but there are others who are more talented, but they just need more time. The testing ban is in no way helping them. You could imagine the pressure on Grosjean. He was at a conflicted Renault who couldn't care less about him, and so with an unhelpful team who just yelled at him, he simply couldn't live up to expectations.

For Magnussen, I think he felt a bit too comfortable at Stewart GP. He was probably under the impression that Jackie would keep him, regardless of the result. He was wrong, but at least he went out with a point (at last).

Kobayashi= Japanese
Toyota= Japanese
=Full Support=Big Confidence

I'm just bored, thought I would jump in

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 18 Sep 2010, 01:33

I have to disagree with your assessment of Pantano Jeroen.

He has been a front runner in GP2 and F3000 but he did a total of nothing in that Jordan. Sure the EJ-14 wasn't the best car in the world but Pantano did nothing to show he was pushing the car beyond its capabilities and he didn't show much if any improvement over the season. Complacency isn't rewarded in F1 and that was why he got dumped in the end. He did get the 2004 Reject of the Year award for a reason you know...

Vassago · Post by **Vassago** » 18 Sep 2010, 08:05

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I'd like to see Grossgene come back soon.

Vassago wrote:As Kobayashi's example shows, you don't have to be a GP2 kingpin to get hooked up with F1. In fact, more GP2 and F3000 front runners before have failed to deliver in the big league (Boullion, Zonta, Pantano) then some of the second tier rivals. I bet nobody remembers when Jackie Stewart called Jan Magnussen 'the best F3 driver since Senna" and most certainly nobody compares Magnussen to Senna now.

Firstly, Kobayashi has indeed shown that you don't have to do heroics in lower categories to be good in F1, but in all fairness to the 3 men whom you have mentioned, Boullion was thrown into the Sauber seat mid-season, without much testing, but scored 3 points nonetheless. 3 points in 11 races, fine, not very nice, but he still did considerably well, considering how he was just forced in like that. Had he been in F1 in 1996, I think he might have improved. As for Zonta, the BAR01 was a dog, as simple as that. He was a rookie, while his teammates Villeneuve and Salo had years of F1 experience, so it was only logical he struggled. 2000 wasn't very heroic, but BAR weren't very helpful were they? As for Pantano, yes, he came 2nd and 3rd in F3000, but once again, the EJ14 was another dog of a car. Fine, Glock scored points on his debut, but only because 4 cars were disqualified and another 6 retired. Heidfeld outqualified him by nearly a whole second, and Pantano usually did well to keep the gap between himself and Quick Nick at least under a second. I think Pantano, like all the others, simply weren't given enough time to mature properly. Boullion was driving for a Sauber which was still in its infancy, hence looking for results. Zonta really was there because BAR just wanted a second driver, and so nearly no attention was directed towards him. Everybody knew that a single mistake was enough for him to get the boot. Both Zonta and Pantano had dogs to drive in their first season, not helping their confidence in any way. People like Kobayashi have the ability to just jump in and get the job done, but there are others who are more talented, but they just need more time. The testing ban is in no way helping them. You could imagine the pressure on Grosjean. He was at a conflicted Renault who couldn't care less about him, and so with an unhelpful team who just yelled at him, he simply couldn't live up to expectations.

For Magnussen, I think he felt a bit too comfortable at Stewart GP. He was probably under the impression that Jackie would keep him, regardless of the result. He was wrong, but at least he went out with a point (at last).

Kobayashi= Japanese
Toyota= Japanese
=Full Support=Big Confidence

I'm just bored, thought I would jump in

I respect your opinion but on the other hand it's very common in F1 that almost all the star drivers from lower categories make their F1 debut in one of the backmarker teams and have to literally earn their place in the big league (Raikkonen was the most fortunate of the last decade's rookies to make a breakthrough after just one season and of course Hamilton was always destined to end up with McLaren right from the start). Kobayashi was also fortunate that it was Peter Sauber who picked him as the Swissman always had a feel for these youngsters and never really changed his policy over the years (Wendlinger, Heidfeld, Massa, Raikkonen). The start of 2010 season was horrible reliability-wise and it could have easily rattled Kamui's confidence adding up a couple of first lap shunts where his exuberance could have made his seat very uncertain in the near future. Yet, he didn't change his aggressive approach and hit the jackpot instead. It's often to see that a new driver starts the season with a significant number of incidents he tends to hold back and just drive the car to finish the races as he's affraid of taking risks (Petrov is an unique example as he seems to finish the races but make one howler after another in practice or qualifying instead). And as Wizzie said, if you want to make an impression, you need to show that you're really pushing it to the limit even in a much slower car. Grosjean probably set his sights on 2011, but when Renault sold their stake, his chances of retaining the seat were always slim and I'm not sure if he really expected to be axed without any regrets.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 18 Sep 2010, 11:07

Good points, I retract my argument.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Sep 2010, 12:12

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Good points, I retract my argument.

Wow, post of the month by a country mile. :shock:

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 18 Sep 2010, 12:45

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Good points, I retract my argument.

Wow, post of the month by a country mile.

I actually had a long post completely written out, then I said 'meh', erased everything and just put that.

What a pathetic little nimwit I am.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Sep 2010, 13:55

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Good points, I retract my argument.

Wow, post of the month by a country mile.

I actually had a long post completely written out, then I said 'meh', erased everything and just put that.

What a pathetic little nimwit I am.

... and he's ruined it.

Frentzen127 · Post by **Frentzen127** » 18 Sep 2010, 14:39

A bit too much faith in humanity Carlos.
Always expect the worst.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Sep 2010, 15:19

Frentzen127 wrote:A bit too much faith in humanity Carlos.
Always expect the worst.

Well, he did confess. :mrgreen:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Sep 2010, 01:49

CarlosFerreira wrote:Well, he did confess.

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. :lol: