2011 Silly Season

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 22 Oct 2010, 11:05

Obviously a big spanner in the works for the silly season could be if Webber wins the championship and retires, which isn't completely impossible.

They could just promote one of their STR or junior drivers, but I don't know if they would risk it, even if they do want to build the team around Vettel. I bet the Raikkonen rumours would start within 24 hours though.

coops · Post by **coops** » 22 Oct 2010, 11:46

Ed24 wrote:Obviously a big spanner in the works for the silly season could be if Webber wins the championship and retires, which isn't completely impossible.

I know Webber has big cojones but surely not even he would quit on that much of a high. I know others have done it, sometimes through choice but even so...

Ed24 wrote:They could just promote one of their STR or junior drivers, but I don't know if they would risk it, even if they do want to build the team around Vettel. I bet the Raikkonen rumours would start within 24 hours though.

Being as the two STR drivers are unlikely to challenge Vettel they could be seen as contenders (see Marios thread about RBR becoming Sebs RBR).

I actually think Raikkonen might start hitting journos who ask about F1 soon. He really doesnt seem interested.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 22 Oct 2010, 12:43

coops wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Not to say that Sutil doesn't have ability.

If I were Sutil I wouldnt sign for Williams. Williams arent so far in front of Force India for it to be worth him risking his reputation against a still quick and committed Barrichello.

Agreed. But Sutil is starting to get in a tricky position, he is risking staying at Force India for too long, and thus he'll probably end with Fisichellaitis (?) if he ever gets a big team contract. Sutil needs to act soon, but with all the big team seats already filled for next season (Yes, Petrov will stay with Renault) it's looking like 2011-2012 off season will be his chance instead. I have been impressed with Sutil this year, but to be honest, I expected even a bit more. Yes, he is trashing Liuzzi, but is that really something to hang in your christmas tree now is it? And yes, Force is not as competitive now as they were at the end of last season and beginning of the current one. But there is an area that he has improved on, consistency, didn't he have like 5-6 consecutive rounds of point finishes in the mid-season?

To sum up, I think Sutil is a class driver. A combination of speed, a bit of craziness (in other words, willingness to overtake), a nice personality and some sponsors. He is a shoe-in second driver to Vettel, Hamilton etc. But I have trouble seeing him being a world champion someday. Race wins? Yes Poles? Absolutely; but championships will be out of reach I think. He reminds me of Fisichella at Benetton some ten years ago.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 22 Oct 2010, 13:18

I think Sutil is a solid driver, but Joe Saward made an implication that he wasn't very good at car development and feedback, and nothing from this year's results disprove that at all.

One of his sponsors (Medion) won't have much effect at Renault because they are partly a competitor to HP.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 22 Oct 2010, 15:59

Popi_Larrauri wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
Popi_Larrauri wrote:
Have you ever wandered about it?

PS: it's all yours phoenix, do your worst

Wander about is completely correct, it has a meaning.

... muy cortamambo...

Please, speak Spanish :mrgreen:

Menudo atorrante... :lol:

By the way, I've seen somewhere that Pastor Maldonado will take Hülkenberg's seat at Williams for next year, though I'm still skeptic about it (Autosport doesn't mention it). Williams is very interested in Maldonado's money because they're losing many sponsors for next year. Anyone knows something else?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:05

Phoenix wrote: Anyone knows something else?

I know something else. I know that roses are red and that violets are blue. But with regard to the second Williams seat? No.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:09

Phoenix wrote:...I've seen somewhere that Pastor Maldonado will take Hülkenberg's seat at Williams for next year...

That's awful! Will poor Nico have to sit on the car's tub? I bet that's very uncomfortable.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:10

dr-baker wrote:
Phoenix wrote: Anyone knows something else?

I know something else. I know that roses are red and that violets are blue. But with regard to the second Williams seat? No.

Here is a link http://www.worldcarfans.com/110102029095/hulkenberg-out-maldonado-in-for-2011---report. Thanks for your contribution dr-baker, maybe next year Williams will use a red and blue paint job.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:17

Phoenix wrote:Thanks for your contribution dr-baker, maybe next year Williams will use a red and blue paint job.

You're welcome.

And I think red and blue could be quite effective. A bit like this year's Mansell Beechdean Le Mans racer.

coops · Post by **coops** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:20

Phoenix wrote:...I've seen somewhere that Pastor Maldonado will take Hülkenberg's seat at Williams for next year...

Thats a new tack for Williams. I suppose they've tried everything else in the last decade, employing a member of the church was the next logical step.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 22 Oct 2010, 18:54

Good riddance to Hulkenberg, who has shown himself to be the David Ragan of Formula 1. I can understand Williams keeping Barrichello because they'd want an experienced driver, but to be honest I'd much rather see some no-hoper take the other Williams drive...

...like Dan Clarke or Jose Maria Lopez.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:16

coops wrote:
Phoenix wrote:...I've seen somewhere that Pastor Maldonado will take Hülkenberg's seat at Williams for next year...

Thats a new tack for Williams. I suppose they've tried everything else in the last decade, employing a member of the church was the next logical step.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:31

Cynon wrote:Good riddance to Hulkenberg, who has shown himself to be the David Ragan of Formula 1. I can understand Williams keeping Barrichello because they'd want an experienced driver, but to be honest I'd much rather see some no-hoper take the other Williams drive...

...like Dan Clarke or Jose Maria Lopez.

I'm sorry, but I can't possibly take opinions from a man with such an ugly avatar. You, you used to have the second coolest avatar around! Who's the sock muppet?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:37

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Cynon wrote:Good riddance to Hulkenberg, who has shown himself to be the David Ragan of Formula 1. I can understand Williams keeping Barrichello because they'd want an experienced driver, but to be honest I'd much rather see some no-hoper take the other Williams drive...

...like Dan Clarke or Jose Maria Lopez.

I'm sorry, but I can't possibly take opinions from a man with such an ugly avatar. You, you used to have the second coolest avatar around! Who's the sock muppet?

Kevin Conway, NASCAR pay driver and male-enhancement drug pitchman.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:45

thehemogoblin wrote:Kevin Conway, NASCAR pay driver and male-enhancement drug pitchman.

Actually, that's somewhat cool.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:46

CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Kevin Conway, NASCAR pay driver and male-enhancement drug pitchman.

Actually, that's somewhat cool.

He's not easily identifiable by picture, so you had to go with Cynon's new signature to piece together what he was getting at.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:52

thehemogoblin wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Kevin Conway, NASCAR pay driver and male-enhancement drug pitchman.

Actually, that's somewhat cool.

He's not easily identifiable by picture, so you had to go with Cynon's new signature to piece together what he was getting at.

... I didn't read the sig. Sorry. :oops:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:55

I thought it was Mark Blundell myself before I read this...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:59

CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:He's not easily identifiable by picture, so you had to go with Cynon's new signature to piece together what he was getting at.

... I didn't read the sig. Sorry.

Well, in Cynon's defense, it does look like Conway's ears farted and his face is trying to get away as fast as possible.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:44

dr-baker wrote:
Phoenix wrote: Anyone knows something else?

I know something else. I know that roses are red and that violets are blue. But with regard to the second Williams seat? No.

Roses are red, violets are violet, I wonder who will be Williams' new pilot.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 23 Oct 2010, 14:28

Roses are red, violets are blue, who'll drive for Williams? I have no clue.

Anyway, I don't believe all this Maldonado stuff until it's confirmed, and even if it is true, I hope someone (Virgin?) snaps up Hülkenberg for next year. It's really a shame that a talented driver like him would get only one season to prove himself (and Maldonado, I believe, really isn't all that talented, he just brings a lot of money). Too bad FIA wouldn't allow a 13th team in for next year... At the moment, there are too many drivers buzzing around F1 for too few seats. I would rather see drivers in really slow mobile chicanes à la Life that fall apart every other race than not on the grid at all, to be honest.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 24 Oct 2010, 04:11

Hulkenberg deserves place in F1 says Patrick Head.

All it does is makes you wonder why Williams haven't resigned him for next season yet...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 24 Oct 2010, 04:23

Wizzie wrote:Hulkenberg deserves place in F1 says Patrick Head.

All it does is makes you wonder why Williams haven't resigned him for next season yet...

Because Patrick Head and Frank Williams are going to split after the season and Head is going to buy HRT, rename it Head F1, and make a killing selling merchandise. And then he's going to hire Nico Hulkenberg and Karun Chandhok. And it will be glorious.

Get ahead with Head.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 24 Oct 2010, 06:35

thehemogoblin wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Hulkenberg deserves place in F1 says Patrick Head.

All it does is makes you wonder why Williams haven't resigned him for next season yet...

Because Patrick Head and Frank Williams are going to split after the season and Head is going to buy HRT, rename it Head F1, and make a killing selling merchandise. And then he's going to hire Nico Hulkenberg and Karun Chandhok. And it will be glorious.

Get ahead with Head.

And you're the first person to make some sense of the situation.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 24 Oct 2010, 11:20

thehemogoblin wrote:Get ahead with Head.

Oh yes. An Excellent Sentence.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 24 Oct 2010, 19:05

Ok, new list that I don't think will happen but:

In no order:
Ferrari[b]
- Fernando Alonso
- Felipe Massa

[b]McLaren
- Lewis Hamilton
- Jenson Button

Red Bull
- Sebastian Vettel
- Mark Webber

HRT
- Sakon Yamamoto
- Christian Klien

Sauber
- Sergio Perez
- Kamui Kobayashi

Virgin
- Jerome D'Ambrosio
- Timo Glock

1MalaysiaF1/Team Lotus
- Heikki Kovalainen
- Nico Hulkenberg

Williams
- Rubens Barrichello
- Adrian Sutil

Force India
- Tonio Liuzzi
- Paul di Resta

Toro Rosso
- Karun Chandhok
- Jamie Alguersuari

Renault
- Robert Kubica
- Vitaly Petrov

Mercedes
- Michael Schumacher
- Nico Rosberg

In other words, not much change at all.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 24 Oct 2010, 20:15

Despite the fact that these things are getting lamer and lamer with each confirmed seat, I'll go ahead once more.
As with my last preview, I will base numbers and the like on the current standings.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

+ Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
#1: Fernando Alonso
#2: Felipe Massa
- Alonso who has taken the lead in Korea manages to successfully, yet very closely, keep on to it and become a three-time champion, again repeating his claim to wishing to end his career with Ferrari. Massa stays in Italy as well and starts to inform himself about the current price of ropes.

+ Red Bull Racing Renault
#3: Sebastian Vettel
#4: Mark Webber
- Failing to defeat Alonso due to internal fighting, the team will have to struggle to stay on the top in 2011. Unfortunately for Webber, the statements saying that Vettel is considered RBR's future will show themselves to be very true quite soon and he will be made the #2.

+ Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
#5: Lewis Hamilton
#6: Jenson Button
- They tried their best in the last races but it was just not possible for these two drivers to get close to Alonso and the Red Bulls, so McLaren will have to try again in 2011. With Button and Hamilton still onboard and not as much internal struggles as certain other teams the British team gets soon the honour of being the favourites in the Constructor's championship.

+ Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
#7: Michael Schumacher
#8: Nico Rosberg
- Despite some saying that Michael will buzz off after the end of 2010, Schumacher stays with the team. But the pressure is still on him as it is true that he will be asked to leave if he fails to win in 2011. Luckily, Mercedes will not seem to have an off-year and may produce a winning car.

+ Renault F1 Team
#9: Robert Kubica
#10: Adrian Sutil
- After crashing out in two of the last three races, the French team becomes fed up with the problems of Vitaly Petrov and he is replaced by Adrian Sutil, who also brings in a bit of sponsorship. With a stronger second driver, Renault loudly state their claim to both win races in 2011 and to become a top three team.

+ Force India F1 Team Mercedes
#11: Vitantonio Liuzzi
#12: Paul Di Resta
- After winning the DTM title and due to Sutil's depature, Mercedes make their influence known and force Di Resta in the free seat for 2011. After some decent showings, Liuzzi's 2011 contract is honored and the must now face the challenge of making FI capable of finishing the Indian GP on the podium.

+ AT&T WilliamsF1 Team Cosworth
#14: Rubens Barrichello
#15: Pastor Maldonado
- With a noticeable amount of sponsorship lost Williams learn the hard way that money makes the world go round and take on GP2 champion Maldonado. Rubens Barrichello stays with the team and states his intention to continue beyond 2011. Nobody in Grove even pretends that Barrichello won't be the team's entire focus.

+ Sauber F1 Team
#16: Kamui Kobayashi
#17: Sergio Pérez
- The Swiss team with the Japanese and the Mexican star of F1. This combination does not only sound like reject, it is. Financial struggles will continue to haunt Peter Sauber and despite him saying otherwise, selling the team becomes a highly attractive option for him despite it not being able to stand on their feet.

+ Scuderia Toro Rosso Ferrari
#18: Sebastien Buemi
#19: Jaime Alguersuari
- STR continues it's bland existence with no new drivers at all. But especially Buemi is under constant surveillance and may be dropped at the cry of a hat ... ??? ... nevermind, you get my point. Rumours about selling the team are always very hot but nothing comes of it, buisness as usual.

+ Lotus Racing Renault
#20: Heikki Kovalainen
#21: Fairuz Fauzy
- After the end of this year, Trulli finally gets the boot and despite stating otherwise is forced to go to NASCAR. Rumors try to write Sato into the seat but fail (unfortunately :cry:

), giving occasional Friday tester Fauzy his debut with the green racers
´
+ Hispania Racing Team Cosworth
#22: Sakon Yamamoto
#23: Plamen Kralev
- The financial troubles of HRT are becoming more and more obvious with two very prominent pay drivers taking the driver seats for 2011. Colin Kolles still, however, tries to convince everyone that his team will be fine. Three persons believe him and will have to recieve psychological treatment after the team folds before Singapore 2011.

+ Virgin Racing Cosworth
#24: Timo Glock
#25: Jérôme d'Ambrosio
- With Di Grassi not quite perfoming to Branson's delight he gets replaced by d'Ambrosio for 2011. Glock still remains the focus of the team for 2011 despite becoming very frustrated with the outfit's lack of progress and demanding a very huge leap forward in the next two seasons.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 Oct 2010, 21:35

Klon wrote:- After crashing out in two of the last three races, the French team becomes fed up with the problems of Vitaly Petrov and he is replaced by Adrian Sutil, who also brings in a bit of sponsorship. With a stronger second driver, Renault loudly state their claim to both win races in 2011 and to become a top three team.

Sutil brings sponsorship from Medion who a) compete directly with HP and b) doesn't actually pay that much to begin with.

And after his performance in Korea, who would want Adrian Sutil right now? Petrov crashed because he hit a puddle of standing water on tyres that were almost bald. Adrian Sutil crashed because of brainfade.

Post by **mario** » 25 Oct 2010, 10:43

Talking of driver changes, it seems that Williams are becoming increasingly interested in Maldonado, as it has been officially announced that Maldonado will take part in the post season young driver test session at Abu Dhabi, scheduled for 16-17th November. Dean Stoneman, winner of the Formula 2 series, will be accompanying Maldonado at Abu Dhabi, whilst Bottas, the current test/reserve driver, will retain his position for 2011.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87742
So, it looks as if Hulkenberg is going to be under even more pressure to perform, as Williams are clearly lining up a replacement if he fails to deliver...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 25 Oct 2010, 10:46

Captain Hammer wrote:
Klon wrote:- After crashing out in two of the last three races, the French team becomes fed up with the problems of Vitaly Petrov and he is replaced by Adrian Sutil, who also brings in a bit of sponsorship. With a stronger second driver, Renault loudly state their claim to both win races in 2011 and to become a top three team.

Sutil brings sponsorship from Medion who a) compete directly with HP and b) doesn't actually pay that much to begin with.

And after his performance in Korea, who would want Adrian Sutil right now? Petrov crashed because he hit a puddle of standing water on tyres that were almost bald. Adrian Sutil crashed because of brainfade.

Someone here said his brakes were locking up, which would explain going so long in all of those corners.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 25 Oct 2010, 10:49

mario wrote:Talking of driver changes, it seems that Williams are becoming increasingly interested in Maldonado, as it has been officially announced that Maldonado will take part in the post season young driver test session at Abu Dhabi, scheduled for 16-17th November. Dean Stoneman, winner of the Formula 2 series, will be accompanying Maldonado at Abu Dhabi, whilst Bottas, the current test/reserve driver, will retain his position for 2011.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87742
So, it looks as if Hulkenberg is going to be under even more pressure to perform, as Williams are clearly lining up a replacement if he fails to deliver...

What Hulkenberg has to do now is beat Barrichello in Brazil (And knowing Ruben's form this season it will be hard ask) to have a chance at retaining his seat...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Oct 2010, 22:33

Wizzie, the problem is not Hulkenberg's results - its Hulkenberg's sponsors. He doesn't have any. He could win the next two races and Williams could still be forced to drop him because of a lack of money.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 26 Oct 2010, 17:37

Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:Talking of driver changes, it seems that Williams are becoming increasingly interested in Maldonado, as it has been officially announced that Maldonado will take part in the post season young driver test session at Abu Dhabi, scheduled for 16-17th November. Dean Stoneman, winner of the Formula 2 series, will be accompanying Maldonado at Abu Dhabi, whilst Bottas, the current test/reserve driver, will retain his position for 2011.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87742
So, it looks as if Hulkenberg is going to be under even more pressure to perform, as Williams are clearly lining up a replacement if he fails to deliver...

What Hulkenberg has to do now is beat Barrichello in Brazil (And knowing Ruben's form this season it will be hard ask) to have a chance at retaining his seat...

Beating Barrichello in Brazil won't be that hard. All Hulkenberg will have to do is finish knowing Barrichello's luck in Brazil.

Post by **mario** » 28 Oct 2010, 17:37

More news from the back of the grid, concerning HRT's plans for the future.

According to this article http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392604 HRT have acquired equipment, former personnel and the facilities from what was left of Toyota's operations in Cologne after they withdrew from the sport. In addition, it seems that HRT have acquired the rights to the TF110, which they intend on modifying to comply with the 2011 regulations.
However, the same article notes that HRT might not be in a position to celebrate just yet, because there are also rumours that they are behind on their payments to Cosworth for this years engine supply.

Now, I don't know about you, but this strikes me immediately as odd. How can a team that is clearly struggling to make ends meet (otherwise they would not be behind on paying Cosworth, or using pay drivers) suddenly able to find the $50 million that Toyota were reputedly seeking to charge for their assets? Either there is some sort of misunderstanding here, or HRT have mysteriously come into a large amount of money...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 28 Oct 2010, 17:45

mario wrote:More news from the back of the grid, concerning HRT's plans for the future.

According to this article http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392604 HRT have acquired equipment, former personnel and the facilities from what was left of Toyota's operations in Cologne after they withdrew from the sport. In addition, it seems that HRT have acquired the rights to the TF110, which they intend on modifying to comply with the 2011 regulations.
However, the same article notes that HRT might not be in a position to celebrate just yet, because there are also rumours that they are behind on their payments to Cosworth for this years engine supply.

Now, I don't know about you, but this strikes me immediately as odd. How can a team that is clearly struggling to make ends meet (otherwise they would not be behind on paying Cosworth, or using pay drivers) suddenly able to find the $50 million that Toyota were reputedly seeking to charge for their assets? Either there is some sort of misunderstanding here, or HRT have mysteriously come into a large amount of money...

Or spending money they don't have, hoping it will generate more than the 50 million dollars in profits so they can pay Cosworth?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 Oct 2010, 17:46

They probably got connected to someone who will be announced in the silly season. Might be an Epsilon Euskadi tie-up?
And it might be interesting to see the Toyota chassises on the track in 2011. It probably will not be THE feel-good story of Brawn's Honda chassises modified up for Mercedes engines, but if that chassis is good, they might get a bit closer (but not much!) to the others. Given they will survive, that is.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 28 Oct 2010, 17:50

Shizuka wrote:They probably got connected to someone who will be announced in the silly season. Might be an Epsilon Euskadi tie-up?
And it might be interesting to see the Toyota chassises on the track in 2011. It probably will not be THE feel-good story of Brawn's Honda chassises modified up for Mercedes engines, but if that chassis is good, they might get a bit closer (but not much!) to the others. Given they will survive, that is.

Something else occurred to me. That car did all the Pirelli tire testing, right?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 Oct 2010, 17:59

I remember it was the 2009 car that was connected to it. Might be wrong, though.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 Oct 2010, 18:36

mario wrote:However, the same article notes that HRT might not be in a position to celebrate just yet, because there are also rumours that they are behind on their payments to Cosworth for this years engine supply.

Now, I don't know about you, but this strikes me immediately as odd. How can a team that is clearly struggling to make ends meet (otherwise they would not be behind on paying Cosworth, or using pay drivers) ...

According to Autosport.com on 17th September 2010:

Kolles has revealed that HRT has paid its engine bill for the remainder of the season which, as its biggest outlay, is a sign of its commitment to see out 2010.

"The engine bill is paid. It is paid in full for the whole year, the same as with the rest. I think actually we are in a better financial situation than many others. That we need more money is very clear, that is nothing to deny, but there are others who have many more debts and many more creditors than we have.

"We have to pay everything up front, so the moment we are not running that means we have not paid. So, as long as we are running, we have paid. This situation has to change, because this has nothing to do with normal business. Every company has certain payment terms - but this is a matter of trust and confidence."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86738

Not that I want to stand up for Mr Kolles but...

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 28 Oct 2010, 19:44

The Toyota in testing is a 2009-car. For some, so-far unknown reasons. However, I really feel HRT needs to get an investor, and that investor is surely not Villeneuve + Durango. So, who's left? Stefan? Epsilon didn't have enough money they said, and why buy the whole Toyota-team then, after all Epsilon have a very very good facility in Spain...