The title fight thread

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 13 Oct 2010, 14:45

For the record, I'm supporting Webber as well. I've followed him his whole career, and I hope he can get it done.

redbulljack14 wrote:Jenson's already nearing 200 races, and he's only 30. I reckon he'll overtake Rubens Barrichello's record eventually.

I don't know, I get the feeling Button might retire when he leaves McLaren, rather than going back into the midfield - so I don't think he'll get there.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 13 Oct 2010, 16:07

James1978 wrote:I don't know why but I always considered Webber more impressive at Minardi in 2002 than Alonso was in 2001. I know the Australia 5th place was lucky, but he was mixing it with Jaguars/BARs/Toyotas/Arrows and the like quite regularly. Whereas I can only recall Alonso doing it once (Japan).

I got the impression that the Minardi car was more competitive in '02 which is possibly why Webber seemed so good behind the wheel. It's not like Webber's teammate (Alex Yoong) was going to be competitive anyway either so it made Webber's performances all the more impressive.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 13 Oct 2010, 16:18

My preferred championship contenders are, in order, Webber, Button, Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. Much as I like it when new people win, I just get a feeling that we'll be sick of Vettel winning championships soon (mind you, I thought the same about Raikkonen), so I'd rather see Button do the double to confound his critics. Not that it's going to happen, of course...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Oct 2010, 19:31

I always assumed that the large Webber support on here were the Australians being keen and the influence of the Aussie founders of F1 Rejects. But I have always supported one British driver at a time and continue with that driver through their career. So In 1992, I supported Mansell. He left for the States so my support went to Hill in his first full season (even after Mansell's brief return - brief enough to not cause my Hill support to waver). After Hill's retirement in 1999, I then switched to Button, again having his first full season the following year. Hense why I would prefer a Button victory over a Lewis one. But I wouldn't mind a Webber victory, more than Alonso or Vettel. But my loyalty to any specific British driver may be streched if Anthony Davidson returns, or Damon's son Josh enters F1.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Oct 2010, 19:59

James1978 wrote:I don't know why but I always considered Webber more impressive at Minardi in 2002 than Alonso was in 2001. I know the Australia 5th place was lucky, but he was mixing it with Jaguars/BARs/Toyotas/Arrows and the like quite regularly. Whereas I can only recall Alonso doing it once (Japan).

Alonso did as well. The most famous example was Barcelona, apart from Japan. He also qualified 18th a lot of times.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Oct 2010, 20:22

BabyG wrote:I have a feeling that a failed Ferrari engine may take the title away from Alonso, just as one handed the 2006 WDC to him. Is it posible for an engine to last the rest of the season?

I know this is off-topic, but I don't like when people talk about the engine that handed Alonso the 2006 title, without mentioning that he also lost an engine a Monza a couple of races earlier, when he was running 3rd.

Another off-topic: to me at least, if Alonso wins it by less than 7 points then it will vindicate the use of team orders. "See, it gave us the title", will Ferrari say.

And a final off-topic: my nickname may suggest I'm a Ferrari fan. I am not.

Back on topic: as much as I want Webber to take it, I fear it will be either Alonso (I told you I'm not a Ferrari fan!) or Vettel.

BTW, Korea is the first eliminatory race: both McLaren drivers are at a risk of losing their title chances. And Red Bull have a shot at the constructors: they need to score 41 points more than McLaren. That means finishing 1-2 and only a McLaren car scoring points, 9th place at best. So not likely, but possible.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:57

dr-baker wrote:I always assumed that the large Webber support on here were the Australians being keen and the influence of the Aussie founders of F1 Rejects.

Personally - and I think this goes for a lot of F1 fans too - I don't support drivers based on nationality. They're all individual people to me, I don't care where they from. I support Jenson because I like the guy not because I'm British; I also support Barrichello, Rosberg, Webber, Kobyashi, etc. I don't care if Mark's an Aussie or not, I just think it would be exciting if he won.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 14 Oct 2010, 01:34

dr-baker wrote:I always assumed that the large Webber support on here were the Australians being keen and the influence of the Aussie founders of F1 Rejects.

Nah, not because he's aussie but because of all the hard work and bad luck.
Doing it hard to get into F1 at all, a bit of a fairy tale to go from years of driving back markers to be WDC contender.
Getting 5th in a minardi (though it was a race of attrition)
Alonso went to renault, webber went to jag, poor guy, 'nuf said
He always out drove the car, did good quali usually, and beat team mates usually.
Webber drove for williams, I have a soft spot for any driver who went to williams

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 14 Oct 2010, 11:40

pablo_h wrote:Webber drove for williams, I have a soft spot for any driver who went to williams

Does that include Piquet sr, Coulthardt and Mansell too?

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 14 Oct 2010, 13:20

Should I say "yes", or should I add the qualifier I only started following F1 in about 1998? Edit: so I only followed williams in their hard years and missed the glory, but still liked them.
FOM shut all videos on youtube and the like down, and I have stuff all history available to me really. I did join a certain site back in 2007 but my account got deleted because I was off living life and didn't check in for 3 months.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 14 Oct 2010, 15:24

DonTirri wrote:
pablo_h wrote:Webber drove for williams, I have a soft spot for any driver who went to williams

Does that include Piquet sr, Coulthardt and Mansell too?

Why, yes. Especially Our Nige.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Oct 2010, 15:45

pablo_h wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I always assumed that the large Webber support on here were the Australians being keen and the influence of the Aussie founders of F1 Rejects.

Nah, not because he's aussie but because of all the hard work and bad luck.

Webber drove for williams, I have a soft spot for any driver who went to williams

Ok, I sai that I ssumed what I said, seems like I was wrong to assume that.

And maybe the Williams link also explains why I prefer Jenson to Lewis, and supported Mansell in 1992, and Hill thereafter.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 14 Oct 2010, 21:04

dr-baker wrote:
pablo_h wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I always assumed that the large Webber support on here were the Australians being keen and the influence of the Aussie founders of F1 Rejects.

Nah, not because he's aussie but because of all the hard work and bad luck.

Webber drove for williams, I have a soft spot for any driver who went to williams

Ok, I sai that I ssumed what I said, seems like I was wrong to assume that.

And maybe the Williams link also explains why I prefer Jenson to Lewis, and supported Mansell in 1992, and Hill thereafter.

I prefer Jenson just because he seems more likeable and we didn't have Jensationalism shoved down our throats like we did with Lewisteria in 2007-08

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 15 Oct 2010, 15:06

Horner says the team won't interfere in the title fight.

I can't really believe Horner. What about you?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 15 Oct 2010, 15:22

Shizuka wrote:Horner says the team won't interfere in the title fight.

I can't really believe Horner. What about you?

I believe the team would like to, but that Mark's recent form and resolve, plus the perceived backlash it would bring about if the word gets out that Vettel was being benefited will be enough to preclude it.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 21 Oct 2010, 08:56

Three races to go. Should we write the McLarens off?

Noseman thinks so. He reckons it's between Webber and Alonso. Sebastian who?

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 21 Oct 2010, 13:53

As has been said already, it has been looking like Webber's year, and in terms of his career and position in the team, it's likely to be his best chance he'll ever get to be World Driver's Champion. But he's in a position where he has to be bold, reach out and grab it. If not, there's no doubt in my mind Alonso and Vettel will step in.

It's pointless writing off the McLaren drivers just yet because it's F1 and sh*t happens.

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:35

Well im very much a man who believes that the man who makes the least mistakes deserves the title...so heres the list of the people who deserve the championship in order of first to last.

1.Mark Webber - Well be honest,i maybe English but it makes no difference,the calm aussie man (thus far) has made to my view no mistakes, Hes been cursed with rubbish drives almost his entire career and deserves a title as hes fought like hell and showed a brilliant amount of bravery. 9/10

Webber and Jenson deserve it on the same level.

2.Jenson Button - Well Jenson in dry conditions maybe the slowest of 5 but thats what makes Jenson a good title contender because he uses tatics and not speed, he has made no mistakes and lets face it the 3 times hes retired this season is due to 1.Monaco (his mechanics failure) 2.Spa (Vettels fault) and 3.Japan (teams fault) Who knows how and where Jenson could have been! he could be 1st,second third. 9/10

3.Sebastian Vettel - Sebs form at the start of the season was superb unfortunately he was just let down by his car been so utterly fragile, However the fact hes crashed into Jenson made allot and i mean ALLOT of mistakes kind of doesnt give him a deserved championship 4/10

4.Lewis Hamilton - Well Lewis looked to be 1st in this until i realised his 2 straight races in which he made a stupid mistake and then another he doesnt really deserve it he may have decent speed but not enough credit 3/10

5.Fernando Alonso - Personally i take the horrible/nice approach when i talk about this guy (no offence to his fans) i believe fernando is talentd without a shadow of a doubt but he would be high in deserving this championship if it wasnt for Germany...much like Schumi in 2002 if Alonso wins this championship how can he look at it a "deserved" championship (Its why i dont think Schumi is the best driver ever) When Jenson won in 2009 he scored in every single race apart from Spa when he was knocked out. So Jensons Championship is deserved...but if Vettel,Hamilton or Alonso won it i will not think of them as deserved champions more...lucky sods! LOL 0/10

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:37

I agree entirely with the order of these drivers, except maybe for swapping Vettel and Lewis around.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 22 Oct 2010, 23:05

Jenson finished in Japan...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 22 Oct 2010, 23:31

Everyone except Alonso. Unless he gives everyone else six points (or volunteers to have six taken away from his own tally).

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 23 Oct 2010, 01:17

7 points?

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 23 Oct 2010, 01:51

I reject the premise that there is a 'deserving' driver other than the one with the most points after the last race (cheating aside).

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:43

Myrvold wrote:7 points?

Yes, seven points. My mistake. If he wins by eight points or more, then I guess I can live with it. But I think that is very unlikely, because the racing is so close. The World Champion is supposed to be the best driver on the grid. If Alonso couldn't get past Massa without Ferrari telling Massa to move over for him, then that suggests Alonso is not the best and therefore undeserving. It will have also ruined a brilliant season of racing as Ferrari will have essentially bought a World Championship - and for just $100,000.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:49

I still think that scenario will justify it as having been a genuine and necessary strategic decision. Otherwise it's just a dick move.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:57

Oh, nothing justifies it. Nothing ever justifies it. But if Alonso wins because of what happened in Germany, its really going to suck. The best season of racing in nearly twenty years will have been ruined by Ferrari.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:12

Merged Eryx's thread with this.

I refused to get up and watch the Japanese GP live after a Red Bull lock-out of the front row, but tomorrow it'll be different. The Red Bulls have been .5 sec slower than the Mercs, McLarens and Ferraris in the first sector. Vettel, Alonso and Rosberg will have grip off the line - Webber, Hamilton and Massa will not. So much can happen braking into turn 3 - this could actually be the moment that decides this Championship!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:22

CarlosFerreira wrote:Merged Eryx's thread with this.

I refused to get up and watch the Japanese GP live after a Red Bull lock-out of the front row, but tomorrow it'll be different. The Red Bulls have been .5 sec slower than the Mercs, McLarens and Ferraris in the first sector. Vettel, Alonso and Rosberg will have grip off the line - Webber, Hamilton and Massa will not. So much can happen braking into turn 3 - this could actually be the moment that decides this Championship!

You almost get the feeling that someting is going to happen between Vettel and Alonso don't you? And if it does Rosberg could be well on his way to his maiden victory whuch means I have to have Nazi Schumi as my avatar...

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:54

If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:03

eagleash wrote:If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

The man with the most points deservedly wins it. Always.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:14

CarlosFerreira wrote:
eagleash wrote:If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

The man with the most points deservedly wins it. Always.

You have an awful lot of faith in the system. I have too much doubt to accept anything like that at face value.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:15

CarlosFerreira wrote:
eagleash wrote:If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

The man with the most points deservedly wins it. Always.

Seconded!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:17

thehemogoblin wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
eagleash wrote:If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

The man with the most points deservedly wins it. Always.

You have an awful lot of faith in the system. I have too much doubt to accept anything like that at face value.

I say that for politics, and stuff - things that deserve my full attention. Formula 1? The man with the most points wins.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 23 Oct 2010, 14:15

J Washburn Stoker wrote:I still think that scenario will justify it as having been a genuine and necessary strategic decision.

+1000

Live with it.

eagleash wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
eagleash wrote:If, come the last race, one of BUT, WEB, HAM or VET moves over for their team-mate will the title be undeserved?

The man with the most points deservedly wins it. Always.

Seconded!

Thirded!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 23 Oct 2010, 15:15

No one complained about Massa 07. No one complained about Raikkonen 08, no one complained about Heidfeld 08 or 10. There is a difference in moving over, on the orders from the team in the middle of the season, and helping your teammate in the last or second to last race when you don't have a chance to win yourself, and without the damn orders during the race. I don't care if a driver take the decision himself, but not the way it was done in Germany.
(Heidfeld thing is Canada 08, and Suzuka 10)

coops · Post by **coops** » 23 Oct 2010, 15:30

Captain Hammer wrote: The best season of racing in nearly twenty years will have been ruined by Ferrari.

Says you who doesnt even have an avatar.

I take your point but I wouldnt say its ruined the spectacle, the races are still what they are. If anything its for the Alonso/Ferrari fans to feel a bit deflated if the title goes their way. They can hardly run around going "IN YOUR FACE!!" at the rest of us, can they?

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 23 Oct 2010, 22:48

can i just note to mryvold

I didnt mean what i said on Jenson as neccesary retirements, i mean just screw ups by other people retirements arent 100% offit...but in response to the people who say "Man who has most points wins" granted yes i see what u mean,but i ment as a deserved championship not a point scoring championship who DESERVES it a man who fights and makes no mistakes deserves it see

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 24 Oct 2010, 20:20

A prediction: Webber is going to win the final race in Abu Dhabi when Vettel is asked by Redbull to let him past for the key points to beat Alonso, only to have himself, or the entire team excluded from the championship, handing it to Alonso and Ferrari. This will then prompt the greatest forum war of all time over the inconsistency of stewardship, the legality of team orders, and the favoritism of Ferrari by the FIA. Many a thread will be locked, and temporary bans will be handed out.

Vettel in a display of complete disgust for his team will violate his contract with Redbull and sign with Ferrari, who gladly release Massa of his contract with a big payoff. Vettel will race the entire season in the midst of bitter legal dispute with Redbull, while Ferrari gleefully handle his legal fees. Vettel will be branded with the nickname Darth Vader by some, as critics agree his transfer from Redbull to Ferrari in a fit of anger is akin to Anakin Skywalker crossing over to the dark side.

Massa will join Webber at Redbull, where he will enjoy a massive surge in popularity now being freed of the Ferrari stigma.

Alonso will be anointed the true heir to Nelson Piquet's legacy by fulfilling his role as the undisputedly talented a**hole with 3 championships.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 25 Oct 2010, 05:09

F1000X wrote:A prediction: Webber is going to win the final race in Abu Dhabi when Vettel is asked by Redbull to let him past for the key points to beat Alonso, only to have himself, or the entire team excluded from the championship, handing it to Alonso and Ferrari. This will then prompt the greatest forum war of all time over the inconsistency of stewardship, the legality of team orders, and the favoritism of Ferrari by the FIA. Many a thread will be locked, and temporary bans will be handed out.

Vettel in a display of complete disgust for his team will violate his contract with Redbull and sign with Ferrari, who gladly release Massa of his contract with a big payoff. Vettel will race the entire season in the midst of bitter legal dispute with Redbull, while Ferrari gleefully handle his legal fees. Vettel will be branded with the nickname Darth Vader by some, as critics agree his transfer from Redbull to Ferrari in a fit of anger is akin to Anakin Skywalker crossing over to the dark side.

Massa will join Webber at Redbull, where he will enjoy a massive surge in popularity now being freed of the Ferrari stigma.

Alonso will be anointed the true heir to Nelson Piquet's legacy by fulfilling his role as the undisputedly talented a**hole with 3 championships.

In all fairness I can see the FIA excluding Ferrari as well giving Hamilton a 2nd world title (Not that I particually like the guy and all...)

But other then that you're pretty much on the right track. Are you Dr Who by any chance? :lol:

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 25 Oct 2010, 07:33

Wizzie wrote:
In all fairness I can see the FIA excluding Ferrari as well giving Hamilton a 2nd world title (Not that I particually like the guy and all...)

But other then that you're pretty much on the right track. Are you Dr Who by any chance?

What are Ferrari to have done wrong in this fantasy scenario? (The Germany matter is closed).