2011 Car Launches

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Jeroen Krautmeir
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

I would like to be the first to say that the Mercedes looks absolutely fantastic. It has renewed my patriotism, and has forced me to support Merc this year. :P

Gasp! The STR actually differs from the RBR! :o
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by DanielPT »

STR looks simple. And old skool, which in F1 is not that great.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89187

Red Bull seems like an evolution, which is not a bad thing given that they already had the best platform last year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89185

Williams has a distinct lack of sponsorship... But I like it! Hope it goes fast!

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/02/01/williams-fw33-revealed-first-pictures/

Mercedes looks like a Mercedes. Big and heavy. Hey, look! They even got an old guy at the wheel! :lol: (Maybe they can shut me up today!)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89189


BTW: I foresee a Williams being the fastest of the day, today, with Red Bull 2nd, Something Renault 3rd, Sauber 4th, Mercedes 5th, McLaren 6th then Force India, Virgin, STR and HRT nowhere. Lets see how many do I get right...
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by The Passenger »

I wish Williams would just run with the test livery for the entire season, because I think the car looks really nice like that.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Captain Hammer »

Renault R31 is the best car. Mercedes W02 a close second.

Lotus T128 is probably the worst. I'm not keen on the Red Bull RB7, either. It's like I'm looking at half an RB6.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by BigG80 »

I think the Mercedes looks really purposeful and dare I say it, quick.

The Williams looks very aggressive in profile and looks like they've really worked hard on sculpting the rear end and packaging it so tightly, there's nothing there!

Not so keen on the Red Bull and the STR looking different is a big surprise. I quite like both Lotus cars, especially the Malaysian one, and I'm looking forward to the McLaren.

The Ferrari looks pretty Ferrari-standard although like many others I am a fan of the tricolor rear wing. The Sauber I hope does continue to improve as James Key is promising.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Captain Hammer »

I just hope Sauber find a better livery. I've seen GP2 teams with better graphics.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Henrique »

Captain Hammer wrote:I just hope Sauber find a better livery. I've seen GP2 teams with better graphics.


Sauber's main color is white. Deal with it :P
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by dinizintheoven »

fjackdaw wrote:It's an improvement, but still uninspiring. Having started watching in 1995, I still miss the 'traditional' Sauber colours of purple/dark blue/turquoise.

...although that would be overlooking the black cars of 1993 and 1994, even though the 1994 car sprouted a white stripe and a load of dots on it later in the season.

WeirdKerr wrote:intersting to see lotus(the green team) have copied the mercedes tyle airbox which i had read was gonna be banned :s

According to the all-knowing oracle that is Wikipedia: "Several smaller aerodynamic devices introduced for 2010 have also been banned, including "shark fins" - an additional fin attached to the engine cowling - that connect to the rear wing, the "bladed" rollbar structure pioneered by Mercedes to decrease the obstruction of air to the rear wing, aerodynamic wheel spokes, flexible front splitters designed to lower front ride height, and modifications to the monocoque that create a V-shaped channel running the length of the car's nose."

Can someone clear this up here? As soon as I read that (end of last year or so) I assumed that Merc would be dropping the split airbox - which I now see they have - so imagine my surprise at seeing it on the Lotus T128. Are they going to be forced into a late redesign? I'll bet Danny Bahar will have something to say about it, and no doubt Mike Gascoyne already has a response prepared. I'd also say I'm already wondering what will happen in 2013 when the engines go turbo - last time, there were no airboxes on top of the turbo cars, so will they hack them off and just have a bare roll bar and a couple of periscopes on the sidepods as in days of yore?

As for this "V-shaped channel on the nose", I assume they mean the fluted nose shape that was sported by Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and (amazingly) Virgin and Hispania last year. Looking at the launch pictures, I see something that is heading that way on the Sauber and Renault (and there's a hint of it on the Merc) - there are noticeable humps around the suspension mountings which make that characteristic shape - much like it was on the Red Bull RB5 (which in turn reminded me of the rather ungainly Williams FW13 from 1989-90). Might there be a few words in their direction as well, or will they get away with it?

redbulljack14 wrote:No shark fins so far, nice.

the Masked Lapwing wrote:The Red Bull RB7... complete with shark fin!

Again, I wonder if anyone will have a few words in Adrian Newey's ear. That Autosport picture looks ambiguous; an official picture from RB's website is a lot clearer. I can't say that vertically amputated almost-shark-fin is particularly good looking, though no doubt someone will argue that it needs to be there so the Red Bull's tail is not missing...

EDIT: the plot thickens. Says Wikipedia, again:
"The design of the T128 also incorporates a "bladed" rollbar similar to the one developed by Mercedes GP in 2010, but thicker and with sturdier sidepods to conform with FIA regulations."

Oi! FIA! Come here and explain your regulations. Is this bladed roll bar and split airbox legal, or isn't it?
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by mario »

Hi dinizintheoven,
It seems that those who wrote the Wikipedia article did so before the start of the season, when there was still some confusion about how the rules would be interpreted. What they have written could be said to be the intention of the rules, but what we are seeing is the engineer's interpretation of the rules - and the two are clearly out of sync.

Firstly, the bladed rollbar, as seen on the Team Lotus entry. The regulations do not explicitly ban bladed rollbars; what happened was the FIA increased the mandatory cross section of the roll over protection structure. The prevailing school of thought was that such a move would effectively remove any advantage in creating a blade rollbar, but evidently Team Lotus seem to think that is not the case. The exact regulation relating to the rollover structure which tried to indirectly outlaw the bladed rollbar is:
15.2.4 The principal roll structure must have a minimum enclosed structural cross section of 10000mm², in vertical projection, across a horizontal plane 50mm below its highest point. The area thus established must not exceed 200mm in length or width and may not be less than 10000mm^2 below this point.

So, as long as the airbox complies with those constraints, then they will probably have no problem in passing scruitineering, and I expect that it will remain legal. I suspect, however, that Team Lotus will probably be on their own in this regard, as I doubt that many other teams would have thought of copying them. As for what will happen post 2013, that is still unclear - it is possible that they might have a similar design as per the 1980's turbo cars (periscope turbo intakes are quite common for turbo charged Le Mans Prototypes these days, as well as in the 80's turbo era). However, with the aerodynamics regulations still being debated, it's hard to tell what might happen for some time.


Now, the V-shaped nose. Again, the rules do not ban them outright, but were designed to limit them by limiting the maximum height of the front roll structure and survival cell. As you can see on the current cars, although the V-nose design is present for some cars, the size of the ridges has been reduced significantly (compare the RB6 with the RB7 - on the RB6, the ridges are striking, but on the RB7 they are much more subtle). The regulations in question are
15.2.3 The highest point of the second structure may not be more than 670mm above the reference plane and must pass a static load test details of which may be found in Article 17.3.

15.4.4 The maximum height of the survival cell between the lines A-A and B-B is 625mm above the reference plane.

Again, I suspect that they have already checked with Charlie Whiting to make sure that their designs were OK; although he doesn't have the final say in scruitineering, he is normally pretty reliable, so I doubt that it will cause any problems if it does comply with the regulations.


The comment about shark fins is half right - they are still legal, but the rules have created a region that extends from 50 to 330mm in front of the rear wheel centreline, and >730mm above the reference plane (the floor of the car), in which no bodywork is permitted. The mini fin on the rear wing is still legal; there is a small zone in the centre of the rear wing, 15cm wide, where you can add bodywork. Toyota were the first to spot that in 2009, incidentally, when they added a winglet in that zone for their Monaco GP package, and the T127 had a winglet there for extra downforce in 2010.


The shaped wheels on the F150; again, those are technically legal, because, yet again, the FIA have not banned them. What they did was limit the size of the hub in an attempt to make it impossible to add on the additional cooling vents; in reality, Ferrari have found a way to slim down the wheel spokes so they could keep the cooling ridges. The regulation in question is
12.4.6 When viewed perpendicular to the plane formed by the outer face of the wheel and between the diameters of 120mm and 270mm the wheel may have an area of no greater than 24,000mm^2.


And finally, the flexible splitters. The FIA has specified a new load test for the splitters, which aims to limit the deflection of the splitter under load. Of course, although the intention was to limit deflection, there is a chance that the designers are able to get around the tests.
Take, for example, the RB6 front wing, which was flexing to the point it was touching the ground at race speed, but passed the FIA load tests (leading some to suspect that the front wing was anisotropic - when loaded vertically (as in the test), it had a different stiffness compared to when loads were applied vertically and horizontally, or when a torque load was applied (as on the track, where the load on the wing would make it twist)). I suspect that it might still be possible to make a splitter which passed the FIA load tests but deflected significantly in race conditions through some trickery with the material properties and structure; whether it would be beneficial is another matter.

Apologies, as this post is a bit of a monster, but I hope that it answers your questions.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by nome66 »

i'm uuhh a little shaky about the whole "Ferrari F150" deal.
being an american who is familiar with the f150 name being something else.
yea i'll just leave this here...
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lol
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Aerospeed »

BigG80 wrote:I think the Mercedes looks really purposeful and dare I say it, quick.

Looks more like the Silver Toilet
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by thehemogoblin »

nome66 wrote:i'm uuhh a little shaky about the whole "Ferrari F150" deal.
being an american who is familiar with the f150 name being something else.
yea i'll just leave this here...
Image
lol
PS:: This is just a joking connection i made is all. don't be mad at me.


I wonder if that dude knows it's illegal to drive without his right rear taillight.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by nome66 »

I think he has bigger issues to deal with.
I MEAN LOOK AT THAT POOR SCOOTER!!
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Myrvold »

That scooter and a Ferrari in the same place... WTF!?!
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Lord Fiddlebottom »

On the formula1.com homepage i can't help reading one of the headlines as "Confident Mercedes set ambiguous targets for MGP W02". Time after time.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by nome66 »

Myrvold wrote:That scooter and a Ferrari in the same place... WTF!?!

Yeah that modena might have scatched it! How careless! lol joking aside, I don't think ferarri knows just how familiar with "f150" the American f1 fans are. Here's what I'm on about. I went to goog images on their british sever ".co.uk" just to see what would happen if I searched it. I got all the way to page 23 (or 22, google skipped 13. hmmm) before I saw any ferarri related anything! lol! Even the one I posted earlier! I understand the whole anniversary of Italy's unification, and I respect it, but maaaayybe ferarri should have chosen a better name for the chassis.

Just my opinion.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by watka »

It seems that that most of the teams have gone for evolution not revolution. I'd say the Williams car looks the most different of any of the cars from its predecessor, and is probably the most striking too. As always though, its too early to make any predictions for the season ahead, just look at Renault last year.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by dr-baker »

watka wrote:It seems that that most of the teams have gone for evolution not revolution. I'd say the Williams car looks the most different of any of the cars from its predecessor, and is probably the most striking too. As always though, its too early to make any predictions for the season ahead, just look at Renault last year.

I reckon the green-and-yellow Lotus is rather revolutionary, if for no other reason than its roll-over hoop/airbox... Even if it were copied from last year's Merc.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by dinizintheoven »

Ye gods, mario, you've been reading the rule book very closely...

mario wrote:The comment about shark fins is half right - they are still legal, but the rules have created a region that extends from 50 to 330mm in front of the rear wheel centreline, and >730mm above the reference plane (the floor of the car), in which no bodywork is permitted. The mini fin on the rear wing is still legal; there is a small zone in the centre of the rear wing, 15cm wide, where you can add bodywork. Toyota were the first to spot that in 2009, incidentally, when they added a winglet in that zone for their Monaco GP package, and the T127 had a winglet there for extra downforce in 2010.

I remember a small wing sticking out from the main body of the rear wing on the Lotus, but not the 2009 Toyota - here I go digging into Forix's photo archives again... initially I misread the post and thought the hatefully ugly engine cover wing from the 1995 McLaren (and the marginally less inelegant version on the 1996 Jordan) had returned under the radar.

Apologies, as this post is a bit of a monster, but I hope that it answers your questions.

It did. And more.

And finally, the car I'm most looking forward to the launch of is... the Virgin MVR-02. Why? One of you has put in the signature "supporting the local rejects!" My mum's side of the family is from Yorkshire. My mum was born there, my gran still lives there, and Dinnington's just down the road. So they're (sort of) my local rejects as well (I'm further down the M1 in Nottingham). I'm banking on them to give some of the other teams a bloody nose this year when they least expect it... hopefully springing a few surprises on the track, but if not, then Hard Northerner John Booth and his old mining pal t'Imo Glock can engage them all in a bar-room brawl behind the Red Bull Energy Station.

Yes, I admit it, I did get that from Top Gear and now I need to find which episode or it'll bug me for the rest of the night...

...got it! 14x02 - the one with the crap electric car that I've only watched once, that'll be why I didn't remember it too well...
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Aerospeed »

patrick wrote:onboard pic of the C30 which shows the ARW in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYnUZHjl ... r_embedded
Also hearing that the R31 sounds interesting because of that exhaust system


May I ask what is the function of the moveable rear wings?
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by AndreaModa »

dinizintheoven wrote:And finally, the car I'm most looking forward to the launch of is... the Virgin MVR-02. Why? One of you has put in the signature "supporting the local rejects!" My mum's side of the family is from Yorkshire. My mum was born there, my gran still lives there, and Dinnington's just down the road. So they're (sort of) my local rejects as well (I'm further down the M1 in Nottingham). I'm banking on them to give some of the other teams a bloody nose this year when they least expect it... hopefully springing a few surprises on the track, but if not, then Hard Northerner John Booth and his old mining pal t'Imo Glock can engage them all in a bar-room brawl behind the Red Bull Energy Station.


*Ahem* ;)

I live on the edge of Banbury which is where Wirth Research is now based, just round the corner from where my dad still works. Of course this is the town also famous for Nick Wirth's Simtek team (I think he likes the place! :lol:), Prodrive's WRC base, and I think Arden or another F3000 team used to be based there.

Oh and Kenny Roberts Snr's old MotoGP team used to be just up the road from where Wirth Research is now!

Lucky boy eh? ;)
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by nome66 »

dinizintheoven wrote:And finally, the car I'm most looking forward to the launch of is... the Virgin MVR-02. Why? One of you has put in the signature "supporting the local rejects!" My mum's side of the family is from Yorkshire. My mum was born there, my gran still lives there, and Dinnington's just down the road. So they're (sort of) my local rejects as well (I'm further down the M1 in Nottingham). I'm banking on them to give some of the other teams a bloody nose this year when they least expect it... hopefully springing a few surprises on the track, but if not, then Hard Northerner John Booth and his old mining pal t'Imo Glock can engage them all in a bar-room brawl behind the Red Bull Energy Station.


Hopefully wont be made of stainless steel!






......or only have three wheels......
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by TimmyB »

JeremyMcClean wrote:May I ask what is the function of the moveable rear wings?


Hi Jeremy.

The movable rear wings are designed to help in overtaking for F1 2011 by temporarily reducing downforce and thus increasing straight line speed.

During a race, only a driver less than 1 second behind another driver can operate the wing, and then only at the beginning of a section of track designated by the FIA.

During practice and qualy the wing can be moved as much as the driver likes.

The effect will be similar to exaggerating the effect of slipstreaming. However Robert Kubica has already come out and said that he didn't think it made enough difference.

When combined with KERS it should make overtaking easier. After an overtake the driver has about a lap to try and get more than one second in front of his rival before his rival can pull the same trick.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by mario »

dinizintheoven wrote:Ye gods, mario, you've been reading the rule book very closely...

mario wrote:The comment about shark fins is half right - they are still legal, but the rules have created a region that extends from 50 to 330mm in front of the rear wheel centreline, and >730mm above the reference plane (the floor of the car), in which no bodywork is permitted. The mini fin on the rear wing is still legal; there is a small zone in the centre of the rear wing, 15cm wide, where you can add bodywork. Toyota were the first to spot that in 2009, incidentally, when they added a winglet in that zone for their Monaco GP package, and the T127 had a winglet there for extra downforce in 2010.

I remember a small wing sticking out from the main body of the rear wing on the Lotus, but not the 2009 Toyota - here I go digging into Forix's photo archives again... initially I misread the post and thought the hatefully ugly engine cover wing from the 1995 McLaren (and the marginally less inelegant version on the 1996 Jordan) had returned under the radar.

Slight correction here - it wasn't the Monaco spec package, but the Hungary package that included that small winglet on the rear wing. You can see it here: http://www.f1technical.net/development/261
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by watka »

AndreaModa wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:And finally, the car I'm most looking forward to the launch of is... the Virgin MVR-02. Why? One of you has put in the signature "supporting the local rejects!" My mum's side of the family is from Yorkshire. My mum was born there, my gran still lives there, and Dinnington's just down the road. So they're (sort of) my local rejects as well (I'm further down the M1 in Nottingham). I'm banking on them to give some of the other teams a bloody nose this year when they least expect it... hopefully springing a few surprises on the track, but if not, then Hard Northerner John Booth and his old mining pal t'Imo Glock can engage them all in a bar-room brawl behind the Red Bull Energy Station.


*Ahem* ;)

I live on the edge of Banbury which is where Wirth Research is now based, just round the corner from where my dad still works. Of course this is the town also famous for Nick Wirth's Simtek team (I think he likes the place! :lol:), Prodrive's WRC base, and I think Arden or another F3000 team used to be based there.

Oh and Kenny Roberts Snr's old MotoGP team used to be just up the road from where Wirth Research is now!

Lucky boy eh? ;)


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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by dinizintheoven »

AndreaModa wrote:I live on the edge of Banbury which is where Wirth Research is now based, just round the corner from where my dad still works. Of course this is the town also famous for Nick Wirth's Simtek team ...

...and the first thought that went through my head when Nick Wirth was announced as being one of the bigwigs at Manor Grand Prix, as it was still known at the time, was: "Simtek!"

Here's hoping an upswing in Virgin's fortunes this year doesn't coincide with them also shutting down and never being seen again after a handful of races...
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by DanielPT »

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/02/04/mclaren-mp4-26-launch-first-pictures/mcl26_12/

It looks good that McLaren. Like always. They have hidden any great inovations except those U shaped sidepods, who look rather interesting. Can't wait to see it racing.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Shizuka »

And also, they are extending the technical partnership with Force India till 2012.
Really starts to resemble a Sauber - Ferrari partnership here...

I really like the U-shaped sidepods!

Code: Select all

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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by F1000X »

Mario, can you explain those secondary ducts on the Mclaren behind the engine inlet, or the hole in the back of the bodywork?
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by dr-baker »

F1000X wrote:Mario, can you explain those secondary ducts on the Mclaren behind the engine inlet, or the hole in the back of the bodywork?

I am wanting to know about that myself.

My totally uneducated guess? Somebody at McLaren said that they worked hard at regaining lost downforce from the double diffuser ban, particularly by trying to get the lower main plane of the rear wing to work harder. Could this be a vent to direct more air towards that wing? A variation on the f-duct?
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the Masked Lapwing
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by the Masked Lapwing »

The McLaren is the best looking car this year, hands down. A bit more red with the livery (like, say, the TeamVodafone V8 Supercar livery) and it would be really awesome.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Phoenix »

Those sidepods...I think I'm going to puke :?
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Tealy »

Phoenix wrote:Those sidepods...I think I'm going to puke :?


Yeah, I love everything else about the car but I hate the look of the sidepods at the moment. Might get used to them eventually but I'm still not keen on the shark fins so maybe not.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by F1000X »

Tealy wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Those sidepods...I think I'm going to puke :?


Yeah, I love everything else about the car but I hate the look of the sidepods at the moment. Might get used to them eventually but I'm still not keen on the shark fins so maybe not.


Get used to them, that car is going to be fast, and people will follow suit.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Aerospeed »

F1000X wrote:
Tealy wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Those sidepods...I think I'm going to puke :?


Yeah, I love everything else about the car but I hate the look of the sidepods at the moment. Might get used to them eventually but I'm still not keen on the shark fins so maybe not.


Get used to them, that car is going to be fast, and people will follow suit.


Not unless the FIA decides to ban all technical innovations on cars first.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by AndreaModa »

I just love how McLaren have the balls to go out and do stuff like this - last year it was the f-duct, this year as well as the sidepods there could be all sorts of other things in the pipeline too. Really demonstrates the ingenuity that used to characterise the sport, and what seems to have been lost by most of the teams in more recent times, particularly Ferrari, and Williams.
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Tealy
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by Tealy »

JeremyMcClean wrote:Not unless the FIA decides to ban all technical innovations on cars first.


This ...

AndreaModa wrote:I just love how McLaren have the balls to go out and do stuff like this - last year it was the f-duct, this year as well as the sidepods there could be all sorts of other things in the pipeline too. Really demonstrates the ingenuity that used to characterise the sport, and what seems to have been lost by most of the teams in more recent times, particularly Ferrari, and Williams.


... and that.

Yeah I really don't mind an ugly looking car if it is a drive toward innovation. McLaren have got an excellent track record in this regard too as you say, they aren't afraid to try new things and I love that. I just think they are a bit odd aesthetically.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by F1000X »

Tealy wrote:Yeah I really don't mind an ugly looking car if it is a drive toward innovation. McLaren have got an excellent track record in this regard too as you say, they aren't afraid to try new things and I love that. I just think they are a bit odd aesthetically.


I still miss the McLaren viking horns.
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Re: 2011 Car Launches

Post by mario »

dr-baker wrote:
F1000X wrote:Mario, can you explain those secondary ducts on the Mclaren behind the engine inlet, or the hole in the back of the bodywork?

I am wanting to know about that myself.

My totally uneducated guess? Somebody at McLaren said that they worked hard at regaining lost downforce from the double diffuser ban, particularly by trying to get the lower main plane of the rear wing to work harder. Could this be a vent to direct more air towards that wing? A variation on the f-duct?

I haven't had time to look at the pictures of the cars, or read any of the reports on the launch of the MP4-26, having been away recently (I've only had a chance to look at the car tonight). My initial suggestion would be that the secondary duct just behind the air intake may be an additional cooling intake, since there have been a few cars which have added on secondary vents in that area. For example, the FW31 had similar, although smaller, air intakes either side of the main air intake for cooling the hydraulic system. It would be logical, too, if it was for additional cooling - it's thought that the sidepods are aiming to improve airflow to the rear wing and control the turbulent wake of the front tyres at the expense of a small decrease in cooling efficiency, and the electronic systems involved in KERS will increase the cooling demands.

As for the hole in the back of the bodywork, I'm not entirely sure which one you are referring to. If it is the one at the back of the car, in line with the rain light? That is, again, probably a cooling aperture (and seems to be a cross between the 2010 Red Bull and Ferrari engine cover openings), which has the advantage of being in a zone where cooling apertures are permitted (centre line of the car).

Your suggestion that they may be seeking to increase airflow over the beam wing may not be that far fetched, though - whilst the main function of the ducts may be for cooling, it would not be surprising if they controlled the flow of hot air over the beam wing for a small boost in aerodynamic performance.
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