The HRT thread

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dinizintheoven
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by dinizintheoven »

In all the excitement about Hispania getting their car ready enough for Liuzzi to do one... slow... lap, you've all forgotten something from earlier in the thread.

CarlosFerreira wrote:After tomorrow, then. I turn 30 next Friday...

Next Friday has arrived. Merry birthday, Carlos, and may I be the first to point and laugh as you know the pain of joining The Thirties Club! (I should know, I've been a member for a year and a half.) May these first two practice sessions in Melbourne have been the present you were hoping for.

sswishbone wrote:It actually lived! Liuzzi managed to get it around for an installation lap... And it looks ghastly! I am well aware that they had no official sponsor drive, but to actually leave the likes of 'this could be you!' and 'this is cool F1 spot' on the bodywork? I doubt even Andrea Moda did that, truly rejectful! I can't wait to see what happens in qualifying :D

Andrea Moda, briefly, had some proper sponsors - sponsors we've all heard of (e.g. Ellesse) as opposed to just having a load of random decals flung all over the car in strange places. Hispania can't even do that, other than the customary Tata logo, and though this could be you, it probably won't be, and this isn't a cool spot, because nobody will see a logo put there after the qualifying session is done and dusted...

LucaPacchiarini wrote:does anyone here agree with me that this has a bigger reject-potential that Lola 97 ? :twisted:

If they drop out and are never seen again after being 11 seconds off the pace here... yes.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Henrique »

dinizintheoven wrote:Andrea Moda, briefly, had some proper sponsors - sponsors we've all heard of (e.g. Ellesse) as opposed to just having a load of random decals flung all over the car in strange places.


Image

And if they fail to qualify, they won't even get as many sponsors as this.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Lord Fiddlebottom »

Narain Karthikeyan, P1 - no time, 23rd; P2 - no time, 24th

“Everybody is working hard trying to put things into place. With new cars there are always bound to be problems. We have everything here, but just to trim parts and fit them into a car is a time-consuming process. Unfortunately we lost a day today, so I think it’s going to be a tough weekend undoubtedly but at least we have made some progress.”


Lay a brick in an empty F1 garage and at the end of the day it will comment that it has made some considerable progress.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

dinizintheoven wrote:In all the excitement about Hispania getting their car ready enough for Liuzzi to do one... slow... lap, you've all forgotten something from earlier in the thread.

CarlosFerreira wrote:After tomorrow, then. I turn 30 next Friday...

Next Friday has arrived. Merry birthday, Carlos, and may I be the first to point and laugh as you know the pain of joining The Thirties Club! (I should know, I've been a member for a year and a half.) May these first two practice sessions in Melbourne have been the present you were hoping for.


I too join in congratulations. Happy birthday Carlos! And I believe Chandhock already unwrapped his birthday gift! :)

dinizintheoven wrote:
sswishbone wrote:It actually lived! Liuzzi managed to get it around for an installation lap... And it looks ghastly! I am well aware that they had no official sponsor drive, but to actually leave the likes of 'this could be you!' and 'this is cool F1 spot' on the bodywork? I doubt even Andrea Moda did that, truly rejectful! I can't wait to see what happens in qualifying :D

Andrea Moda, briefly, had some proper sponsors - sponsors we've all heard of (e.g. Ellesse) as opposed to just having a load of random decals flung all over the car in strange places. Hispania can't even do that, other than the customary Tata logo, and though this could be you, it probably won't be, and this isn't a cool spot, because nobody will see a logo put there after the qualifying session is done and dusted...



After Q1 you mean. And even then, If they don't leave the pits at the beginning of the session, no one will actually see it, being broadcasted the laps of competitive teams instead...
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

So things are looking grim for my favourite new team. But ill bet right here right now, that HRT will score points this year, if not then who so ever go up against me I free to choose a new profile picture for me that ill wear in shame until they do score or drop out of F1. You have my word.

Maybe HRT should consider a stock market flotation. That has been beneficial to Williams so far, maybe it'll provide the boost they need.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

Peter wrote:So things are looking grim for my favourite new team. But ill bet right here right now, that HRT will score points this year, if not then who so ever go up against me I free to choose a new profile picture for me that ill wear in shame until they do score or drop out of F1. You have my word.

Maybe HRT should consider a stock market flotation. That has been beneficial to Williams so far, maybe it'll provide the boost they need.


By the looks of it, this:

drop out of F1


could very well arrive before the end of the season. In all fairness, I think some guardian angel saved the team in hope they could:

a) find sponsorship; be professional; be competitive
b) be professional; be competitive
c) be professional; find sponsorship

d) after the mother and father of all miracles (promoting Geoff Willis to sainthood status), be competitive

Well, from the looks of it nothing like that happened and while they had an excuse last year, being newcomers and all, this year, after their antics, sponsorship will be sure hard to come by. Unless some awesome saviour buys the team and inject some funds, the 107% rule will kill them off, I am afraid...
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by ADx_Wales »

Seeing as they only managed the Installation lap. Does anyone know if theirs was the fastest?

If not SURELY they can just claim they did :D!!!

And any comparisons to Andrea Moda can be met with papayas IMO, If anything Hispania are a team worse than Onyx/Montiverdi. They may not have lasted two seasons, but Onyx got points finishes.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by ADx_Wales »

Lord Fiddlebottom wrote:Narain Karthikeyan, P1 - no time, 23rd; P2 - no time, 24th

“Everybody is working hard trying to put things into place. With new cars there are always bound to be problems. We have everything here, but just to trim parts and fit them into a car is a time-consuming process. Unfortunately we lost a day today, so I think it’s going to be a tough weekend undoubtedly but at least we have made some progress.”


Lay a brick in an empty F1 garage and at the end of the day it will comment that it has made some considerable progress.


0.000 is technically LESS than 107%
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Ferrim »

The Spanish commentators were saying that in order to be entitled to qualify, HRT needed to send a car to the track on FP2. I don't know whether that's true but as Liuzzi went to the track, the lead commentator said:

"It remembers me of that team, Andrea Moda, where the second driver went to the track for a couple of laps just because the team needed it, but he wasn't really competing".

Brilliant. It's a pity that these guys (him and Andy Soucek in the supporting role) are not the ones commentating the race itself.

(Edited because I'm stupid)
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Klon »

Ferrim wrote:The Spanish commentators were saying that in order to be entitled to qualify, HRT needed to send a car to the track on FP2. I don't know whether that's true but as Liuzzi went to the track, the lead commentator said:

"It remembers me of that team, Andrea Moda, where the second driver went to the track for a couple of laps just because the team needed it, but he wasn't really competing".

Brilliant. It's a pity that these guys (him and Andy Soucek in the supporting role) are not the ones commentating the race itself.


Well, they are indeed wrong and should learn to read the bathplugging rulebook. To participate in an F1 race, a car must have participated in at least one pratice session (qualifying being such a session) and manage to pose a time in qualifying witch is less than 107 % off Q1's fastest time. It's not that hard.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by ADx_Wales »

LucaPacchiarini wrote:does anyone here agree with me that this has a bigger reject-potential that Lola 97 ? :twisted:


No.

Lola didnt even do one race let alone one season.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Phoenix »

ADx_Wales wrote:
Lord Fiddlebottom wrote:Narain Karthikeyan, P1 - no time, 23rd; P2 - no time, 24th

“Everybody is working hard trying to put things into place. With new cars there are always bound to be problems. We have everything here, but just to trim parts and fit them into a car is a time-consuming process. Unfortunately we lost a day today, so I think it’s going to be a tough weekend undoubtedly but at least we have made some progress.”


Lay a brick in an empty F1 garage and at the end of the day it will comment that it has made some considerable progress.


0.000 is technically LESS than 107%


:lol: Give both men a beer!
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

wonder how that guy got on with his offer of here to sponsor hrt went??

anyway many rumblings going on over the autosport forum about the usual, going to be interesting fp3 im staying up just to see them run laps :D
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

Klon wrote:
Ferrim wrote:The Spanish commentators were saying that in order to be entitled to qualify, HRT needed to send a car to the track on FP2. I don't know whether that's true but as Liuzzi went to the track, the lead commentator said:

"It remembers me of that team, Andrea Moda, where the second driver went to the track for a couple of laps just because the team needed it, but he wasn't really competing".

Brilliant. It's a pity that these guys (him and Andy Soucek in the supporting role) are not the ones commentating the race itself.


Well, they are indeed wrong and should learn to read the bathplugging rulebook. To participate in an F1 race, a car must have participated in at least one pratice session (qualifying being such a session) and manage to pose a time in qualifying witch is less than 107 % off Q1's fastest time. It's not that hard.

The qualifying, or reading the rule book?

patrick wrote:
eytl wrote:I just love how the so-called new car is such a derivative of the old car that parts such as the nose and front wings are interchangeable at all!


On the FP1 broadcast they mentioned the car was made by the same company that supplied Toro Rosso with the 2008 car (that won a race). The name of the company escapes me at the moment, but it wasn't Dallara as we know, so indeed, they have most likely deliberately constructed the car in such a manner, knowing full well they would need to use old parts.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Surely bolting together parts of the 2010 car is going to upset aero balance


we would have to assume the car had any aero balance to begin with, which appears unlikely :lol:

Well, Craig Scarborough, who has a good blog about technical developments within F1, said that he had spoken to Kolles about the F111, and Kolles had admitted that the current monocoque is partially derived from Dallara's designs (the upper half is identical). Given that, it is perhaps not unsurprising that aerodynamic parts are interchangeable between the two cars, although hardly inspiring in terms of performance. Also, the company that you are thinking of is CarboTech GmbH, a German composites specialist who also work with Toro Rosso.

Meanwhile, although Kolles is promising a "normal day" tomorrow, with the cars aiming to rack up as many miles in the final practise session as possible ahead of qualifying, there is some bad news about their front wing. Although the F111 has passed the scruitineering checks, some sources have claimed that they have not been allowed to use the new front wing because it has not been crash tested; at least, that is what Autosport are saying.
The team, which did not do any testing with the new car, will be forced to use last year's front wing, however, as the new one has not yet passed the mandatory FIA crash tests.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90190

There are even some rumours that the entire car might not have completed the necessary crash tests floating around the paddock, although that just seems to be malicious gossip. When Ted Kravitz tracked down Kolles and asked him about these rumours, he denied that the car hadn't completed the necessary crash tests, saying that they passed all the tests over a month ago (probably at the Cranfield Research Laboratory). Now, I'm inclined to believe Kolles about this because of the chassis homologation rules, but rumours like this are hardly going to encourage investors to flock to the team, are they?
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by resir014 »

Shall we have a bet on how many races the HRT will pass the qualifying round this season?

My bets:
Car #22: Once.
Car #23: None.

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Re: The HRT thread

Post by WIDD »

Was anyone else thinking that the HRT performance was somewhat predicatable today?
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Valrys »

WIDD wrote:Was anyone else thinking that the HRT performance was somewhat predicatable today?

With such limited running, obviously they were never going to qualify on pace, short of Geoff Willis being an actual Wizard. A lot closer than anyone could have expected though, given such limited running of the car.

Also, here's that story I mentioned in the other thread http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/neues-auto-alte-nase-pleiten-pech-und-pannen-bei-hrt-3564025.html - Colin Kolles trying to carry so many parts for the car onto the plane to Melbourne as hand luggage, that he wasn't allowed to fly, so he passed out some of the parts to other passengers on the plane :lol:
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Ataxia »

I know that the fact they're using the F110 chassis was in the news, but I've got a hunch they're just using the whole 2010 car with a different engine cover. It just all looks exactly the same.

I'd imagine that the crash test rumours *might* be true, but who knows? All I'm saying is the team is run by a dentist.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

would of been better off using the F110+ since that was fine n the tests
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Valrys »

S951 wrote:would of been better off using the F110+ since that was fine n the tests

But then they'd just have been in the situation of having a completely untried car at the next race. No, for better or for worse, they had to get some mileage in the F111 this weekend.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

This is for mario, saw this pic of the rear end should give you a better idea for your analysis into what they've done compared to others

Image
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by GroupLotusRenault »

The rear end of the car is unique, but would you say its helping them? None of the teams have their exhust under the rear wing now.

107% should be easy to get in, Tonio Liuzzi is praising the team now? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90246
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Valrys »

HRT in "almost as fast as a Red Bull" shocker!

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... _trap.html
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by thehemogoblin »

Valrys wrote:HRT in "almost as fast as a Red Bull" shocker!

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... _trap.html


Only in comparison to Vitantonio Liuzzi trying to bike around Albert Park.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by LionZoo »

GroupLotusRenault wrote:The rear end of the car is unique, but would you say its helping them? None of the teams have their exhust under the rear wing now.

107% should be easy to get in, Tonio Liuzzi is praising the team now? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90246


You know what, Liuzzi does have a point. For a car that's completely untested, unsetup, and un-everything else, that time is respectable. They should be able to find another second or two easily if they get more mileage. That is a rather ominous if though.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Gotta love the headline on the official HRT website:

“We created a miracle again, but it wasn’t enough; we’ll be back in Malaysia stronger than ever”

:lol:
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

At this rate HRT will be more successful as motiviational after-dinner speakers.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by P_Friesacher »

"This could be you" is starting to sound like an ominous warning.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

An untested car, half 2010 half 2011, 11 laps only and less than 2 seconds off, it is actually a great and somewhat respectable effort. Wonder if they can get faster than Virgin...
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Valrys »

DanielPT wrote:An untested car, half 2010 half 2011, 11 laps only and less than 2 seconds off, it is actually a great and somewhat respectable effort. Wonder if they can get faster than Virgin...

I'm tempted to find a bookies that'll take bets on them getting under 107% and qualifying for the next race, as I would put money down on it, no questions asked.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by patrick »

Valrys wrote:
DanielPT wrote:An untested car, half 2010 half 2011, 11 laps only and less than 2 seconds off, it is actually a great and somewhat respectable effort. Wonder if they can get faster than Virgin...

I'm tempted to find a bookies that'll take bets on them getting under 107% and qualifying for the next race, as I would put money down on it, no questions asked.


Indeed, if they get that new front wing up to scratch then it is entirely possible that at least Liuzzi can qualify. The problem lies with them moving forward in terms of pace to challenge Virgin, which I cannot see them doing.
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by mario »

Cheers for the photo S951 (although I'd seen it before, it wasn't in as high a resolution).
GroupLotusRenault wrote:The rear end of the car is unique, but would you say its helping them? None of the teams have their exhust under the rear wing now.

107% should be easy to get in, Tonio Liuzzi is praising the team now? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90246

Yes and no. Since it doesn't inject air directly into the diffuser, I would presume that it reduces the sensitivity of the car to changes in exhaust gas flow (i.e. how much throttle is being applied), you can energise the air flow over the rear of the floor, and over the top of the diffuser, potentially increasing the effectiveness of the diffuser, and technically it is probably more straightforward to implement compared to the Red Bull/Ferrari/McLaren style diffuser where air is injected directly into the outer 50mm of the diffuser.
On the other hand, there is the downside that it will not be as effective as energising the airflow within the diffuser, and is probably not quite as effective as directly blowing the diffuser, like Red Bull et al. There is also the disadvantage that the additional packaging around the centreline of the car, and the gearbox, might disrupt airflow over the beam wing, and the technical challenge of passing an extremely hot piece of bodywork around the gearbox casing (it looks like they've copied what McLaren have done with their diffuser, which is to clad it in metal or a metallic-ceramic composite to protect it).

In terms of performance, they are probably giving away a little bit of downforce compared to an optimised directly blown diffuser, although, being easier to implement, it'll probably be a fair bit easier to optimise. They are not entirely alone in this philosophy - their design is similar to the MVR-02, the T128 and other midfield cars, which blow air across the floor instead of directly into the diffuser - although, with their lack of testing mileage, they probably haven't refined it to the same degree as their rivals, nor found out about potential problems such as warping of the floor and other thermal related problems (which hit both McLaren and Mercedes last year, and was a problem for Mercedes in early testing this year too).
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

more hrt goodness

Image

thinking about it if they get the sepang fine and have both cars sorted from fp1 onwards which they have no reason not to now since they managed to get both out for some laps in fp3.

I think Liuzzi will just about qualify next race they should gain 2 seconds from setup alone if they get enough running in and if they keep going provided they don't fold or pull any fast ones then they should make steady progress, IF that serbian bloke was serious he'd put his money were his mouth is and buy them out
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

S951 wrote:more hrt goodness

Image

thinking about it if they get the sepang fine and have both cars sorted from fp1 onwards which they have no reason not to now since they managed to get both out for some laps in fp3.

I think Liuzzi will just about qualify next race they should gain 2 seconds from setup alone if they get enough running in and if they keep going provided they don't fold or pull any fast ones then they should make steady progress, IF that serbian bloke was serious he'd put his money were his mouth is and buy them out


That Serbian bloke didn't had the money. That was his main problem. All he stated was what he wanted to do. Toyota at least say that he didn't pay them as it was accorded if I recall correctly.

If HRT find 2 seconds on set up alone, they will actually be as fast as the Virgins. Which would then make Virgin a laughing-stock of F1 world...
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by S951 »

ah tbh Daniel I didn't read to much into the serbian bloke, in all honesty as bad as hrt have been I think with more running time they will get pretty close to mvr ambrosio at least. As many have said they got within 1.7 of the 107% on the old fw and nosecone on a mostly un setup car.

With those new bits on and bit more setup time will be interesting, but yeah if they beat mvr then mvr will be a laughing stock getting beaten but a team probably on less budget than them
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Ataxia »

Could we all chip in a bit each and buy them out?
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by eagleash »

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Could we all chip in a bit each and buy them out?


It's not impossible, but there's always the danger that we could do a worse job...

S951 wrote:
With those new bits on and bit more setup time will be interesting, but yeah if they beat mvr then mvr will be a laughing stock getting beaten but a team probably on less budget than them


Virgin ended up behind them in the final standings last season didn't they?
DemocalypseNow wrote: when eagleash of all people says you've gone too far about something you just know that's when to apply the brakes and do a U-turn.
Peter
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by Peter »

Well, I'm disappointed that our favouite backmarker failed to make the cut, but like everyone has said so far, running an untested, unsetup car, with little to no mileage, with half of the parts off the old car, you would be a god if you qualified. I don't think they even have the moveable rear wing on, do they?
Everything was against them this race. But they still managed to come only 1.7 seconds off the 107% time. Once they get more mileage, set up the car, setup alone can give them over 2 seconds, in 2010 with no upgrades they still closed the gap to everyone else. And when they can get new 2011 spec parts on the car as well, which will certainly give them a lot of time, that front wing looked very good. I bet that HRT is faster than Virgin in 3 races time. Unless virgin has something up their sleeves.

Off topic, my internet still refuses to connect to F1 rejects. On firefox I get the "connecting to F1 rejects" then a while later it says the connection has timed out. Anyone like to give a word of advice? I didn't do a thing to my internet between when it worked and when it didn't.
"The FIA's implementation of penalties is about as effective as that of the English football team."
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DanielPT
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by DanielPT »

eagleash wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Could we all chip in a bit each and buy them out?


It's not impossible, but there's always the danger that we could do a worse job...


I thought we had a plan to put F1Rejects in that "cool" spot they have free at HRT...

Peter wrote:Off topic, my internet still refuses to connect to F1 rejects. On firefox I get the "connecting to F1 rejects" then a while later it says the connection has timed out. Anyone like to give a word of advice? I didn't do a thing to my internet between when it worked and when it didn't.


Off topic, that sometimes happened to me. It's been a while now. You should keep trying a couple of times until you succeed. Unless you already tried this. In this case sue your ISP.
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
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dinizintheoven
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Re: The HRT thread

Post by dinizintheoven »

Peter wrote:Well, I'm disappointed that our favouite backmarker failed to make the cut, but like everyone has said so far, running an untested, unsetup car, with little to no mileage, with half of the parts off the old car, you would be a god if you qualified. I don't think they even have the moveable rear wing on, do they?

The curved slot on the rear wing endplates implies that something there is designed to move, and the curved rods that move it are there... but there was so little TV time on the Hispanias during practice and Q1 that I never saw anything actually move.
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
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