24 heures du mans ITS ALMOST THERE !!!

[f1-gast]

Well how great is this race weekend Formula 1 Pinksterraces @ zandvoort but the best !
24 heures du mans <3

Right now you can vieuw the qualifying on Motors TV and on Eurosport !!
Links will follow soon to see the race life next saturday

[f1-gast]

Both audi;s are now on P1 and P2 still 1hour 11 mins ans 23 sec to go

[RAK]

Unfortunately, I'll miss most of it thanks to work. I'll catch up with the results later.

[Cynon]

What about the news that DeltaWing will be coming to Le Mans in 2012? O.o

[Peter]

Audi and Peugeot will battle all through the race. Then a toss up between Pescarolo and Rebellion. Aston Martin should be between them, until their engines blow. GT2 will be close, but i'm expecting Ferrari to triumph.

[Dan B]

Here's hoping Peugeot wins, them being on home soil and all.

For the record me going for Peugeot stems from the race in 2000 when Audi won and I was going for Panoz.

[DOSBoot]

Here's hoping Peugeot wins, them being on home soil and all.

Me too. I'm tired of the Audi dominating all the time.

[Peter]

Here's to hoping Audi wins :p

By the way, is Kolles running some R10's again this year?

[DOSBoot]

Aston Martin should be between them, until their engines blow.

What if they win?

[Mister Fungus]

I'm in the Peugeot camp too, and Chevy camp when it comes to GTs.

I see Lotus is doing a fine job of replacing JLOC Lamborghini of yesteryear.

[Dan B]

Here's hoping Peugeot wins, them being on home soil and all.

Me too. I'm tired of the Audi dominating all the time.

Truth be told, the R8 (prototype) was probably the best prototype conceived. Wins from, what, 2000 to 2006 (or 2005; can't remember, and yes I am counting the Speed8 as an R8 as they were mechanically VERY similar if not the same), reliable for the most part, and fast, I am not surprised it won forever. I still remember the time when one of the Audis was involved in a wreck and they had to redo the entire back end of the car- of course I was happy as that meant at least 4 hours of work but the car was back out in 15 minutes. Talk about easy to repair; that or the mechanics had hot coals in their pants. So when I saw that Audi back on the track I was less than thrilled, again, because I was going for Panoz at the time.

That, and me being a French citizen (dual citizen between France and USA) I feel like it's patriotic duty to go for Peugeot. That, and it's a much better looking car.

Bonus points: Oreca somehow wins with their 908. That would make my day.

[patrick]

Here's to hoping Audi wins :p

By the way, is Kolles running some R10's again this year?

nope

and the new aston prototypes are 20sec off the pace, which seems like a disaster (although predicted by mulsanne's corner)

looks like a cracking race ahead, I'm a fan of #3 audi and #7 peugeot but it's really hard to just pin yourself down when there's so many great cars and drivers.

Bonus points: Oreca somehow wins with their 908. That would make my day.

most def.

[DOSBoot]

Here's hoping Peugeot wins, them being on home soil and all.

Me too. I'm tired of the Audi dominating all the time.

Truth be told, the R8 (prototype) was probably the best prototype conceived. Wins from, what, 2000 to 2006 (or 2005; can't remember, and yes I am counting the Speed8 as an R8 as they were mechanically VERY similar if not the same), reliable for the most part, and fast, I am not surprised it won forever. I still remember the time when one of the Audis was involved in a wreck and they had to redo the entire back end of the car- of course I was happy as that meant at least 4 hours of work but the car was back out in 15 minutes. Talk about easy to repair; that or the mechanics had hot coals in their pants. So when I saw that Audi back on the track I was less than thrilled, again, because I was going for Panoz at the time.

That, and me being a French citizen (dual citizen between France and USA) I feel like it's patriotic duty to go for Peugeot. That, and it's a much better looking car.

Bonus points: Oreca somehow wins with their 908. That would make my day.

Indeed, Audi is good when it comes to making endurance vehicles, and are a contender of the best developed Le Mans winners, only second to Porsche. It's just that in my view, if one person or manufacturer dominates a race multiple times, then it gets kind of boring for me. Me being an American I'm kind of neutral to the overseas manufacturers at times. But, I like Peugeot, because they were the first to regularly beat the Audis. If Ford was still racing there in P1, I would be rooting for them. (Are they racing in GT class this year?) Oreca is also a great team too, and it would be great to see them win. (The Viper from 1998 is one of my favorite liveries of all time.)

[eytl]

I must say, relatively small (compared to previous years) reject turn-out at Le Mans this year makes it a bit of a turn-off for me ...

[DOSBoot]

I must say, relatively small (compared to previous years) reject turn-out at Le Mans this year makes it a bit of a turn-off for me ...

I gather you must have been a happy guy when David Brabham won it in 09.

[patrick]

I must say, relatively small (compared to previous years) reject turn-out at Le Mans this year makes it a bit of a turn-off for me ...

Could have sworn I saw Deletraz' name on an entry list yesterday, but alas it was not to be.

this does appear to be one of the closest Le Mans qualifying sessions ever - the top 6 separated by a mere .500

[Mister Fungus]

Hmm let's see:

McNish, Lammers, Davidson, Sarrazin, Montagny, Bourdais, Lamy, Bruni, Nakano, Deletraz, Magnussen, Berretta


Seems like a prety good selection to me. No HWNSNBM though

[Henrique]

I'm rooting for Pedro Lamy.

[Peter]

Hmm let's see:

McNish, Lammers, Davidson, Sarrazin, Montagny, Bourdais, Lamy, Bruni, Nakano, Deletraz, Magnussen, Berretta


Seems like a prety good selection to me. No HWNSNBM though

:O Deletraz is racing??!! What team?

[deCrasheris]

Hmm let's see:

McNish, Lammers, Davidson, Sarrazin, Montagny, Bourdais, Lamy, Bruni, Nakano, Deletraz, Magnussen, Berretta


Seems like a prety good selection to me. No HWNSNBM though

:O Deletraz is racing??!! What team?

Delatraz is not racing sadly . He was originally going to be in the 59 Luxury Racing Ferrari but that team is receiving help from the ALMS Ferrari factory team Risi Competizione (sure i didn't spell that right) and they wanted to have their driver Jamie Melo in the car instead of Delatraz.

[Myrvold]

He is in the #58 Luxury Racing together with Beltoise and Jakubowski, while Melo is racing together with Ortelli and Makowiecki in the #59. At least that's what it says in the Autosport mag.

EDIT: But I see that there are a "Thiriet" in that car instead of Deletraz

EDIT2: Cynon. I think it is brilliant that the 56th spot is used as intended again!

[Aerospeed]

In no particular order the F1 alumni on the Entry list in the 24 hours le mans

Allan McNish
Jan Lammers
Anthony Davidson
Alexander Wurz
Marc Gene
Stephane Sarrazin
Franck Montagny
Sebastien Bourdais
Pedro Lamy
Olivier Panis
Tiago Monteiro
Christian Klien
Shinji Nakano
Giancarlo Fisichella
Gianmaria Bruni

And to top it all off, Nicolas Prost, obviously the son of Nicolas Prost.

[baddriving50]

In no particular order the F1 alumni on the Entry list in the 24 hours le mans

...

And to top it all off, Nicolas Prost, obviously the son of Nicolas Prost.

Since when did Murray Walker start commentating on endurance racing?

[thehemogoblin]

I wish I could find somewhere to watch the whole race, because I actually have the time to do it, and why the hell not?

[Faustus]

Look out for the BMWs in the GTE class, race engineered by my good friend Stuart.

[sswishbone]

@thehemoglobin: - try here http://www.vipbox.tv/sports/motosport.html

[mario]

Here's hoping Peugeot wins, them being on home soil and all.

Me too. I'm tired of the Audi dominating all the time.

I have to agree that it would be great to finally see somebody other than Audi win - and to be honest, they fluked the win last year due to the faulty connecting rods that Peugeot had produced. It's interesting to note that Audi have, unusually, broken with their normal policy in recent years of allowing a privateer to use their old car by permanently parking the R15 and R15+ variants - though that's kind of understandable given the aerodynamic and braking instability of the car made it something of a dog by Audi's normal standards.
Anyway, yes, it'd be good to finally see something of a battle for the lead, and for Peugeot to finally get one over Audi - they've arguably had the better car in recent years, but Audi have had better luck. It looks like Peugeot might have a slight edge here, since the R18 does seem to be a bit harsher on its tyres over a stint compared to its predecessors and the Peugeot cars - but, you never know what might happen.

That said, what I'd really like to see would be an attempt by the ACO to actually balance the LMP1 class properly, instead of the recent half hearted attempts it has made. Tinkering slightly with the air restrictors will not make any difference when Audi and Peugeot have vastly better resources, and can simply outspend everybody else. Then again, the ACO probably doesn't want to scare away its last manufacturers by making them less competitive - even though it would probably be best for the series as a whole if it reigned in Audi and Peugeot.

Look out for the BMWs in the GTE class, race engineered by my good friend Stuart.

He must be pretty pleased after the qualifying sessions - 1st and 3rd in class, and looking in pretty good form for the race itself.

[F1000X]

How is the AMR-One 20 seconds off the pace. How is that possible. The old Aston Martin V12 (which was my favorite car from last year) is nearly 10 seconds faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT USING THE OLD CARS. Mario, do you know anything about this?

[patrick]

How is the AMR-One 20 seconds off the pace. How is that possible. The old Aston Martin V12 (which was my favorite car from last year) is nearly 10 seconds faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT USING THE OLD CARS. Mario, do you know anything about this?

although sadly i am not mario, I have heard that it is generally aerodynamically flawed and the engine is underpowered. plenty of info can be found here

and that reminds me, the two Lotus Evora GT cars are about 10 seconds off the fastest GTEPro time (which is their class), and they currently sandwich the Doran GT at the back of the field. So much for Bahar's le mans takeover ?

[mario]

How is the AMR-One 20 seconds off the pace. How is that possible. The old Aston Martin V12 (which was my favorite car from last year) is nearly 10 seconds faster. WHY ARE THEY NOT USING THE OLD CARS. Mario, do you know anything about this?

although sadly i am not mario, I have heard that it is generally aerodynamically flawed and the engine is underpowered. plenty of info can be found here

and that reminds me, the two Lotus Evora GT cars are about 10 seconds off the fastest GTEPro time (which is their class), and they currently sandwich the Doran GT at the back of the field. So much for Bahar's le mans takeover ?

Part of the problem is, most likely, the engine - they've suffered from quite a few mechanical problems in testing, such as disintegrating cylinder linings (due to manufacturing problems), and the indication is that they are having to slightly de-tune the engine in an attempt to make it last the full race distance.
Because of that, the power output is pretty poor - for example, the Judd engine used by Pescarolo (which has been the benchmark petrol engine for some time) is thought to be producing around 546bhp (which is just below the 550bhp target that the ACO has for the LMP1 cars). The estimates from the Mulsanne Corner website put the AMR-One's power output in the 450-480bhp bracket (at the wheel, assuming a 94% efficient transmission) - even taking in power train loss, they are badly down on power.

You also suspect they are down on torque (and at Le Mans, having a nice wide torque band is particularly advantageous, due to the number of acceleration zones, and is part of the reason for the dominance of the diesel cars). Of course, the older car, with its much larger normally aspirated engine, probably would have a healthy torque advantage over the much smaller engined new car, so that is probably part of the reason why it is so behind its predecessor.

Added to that, as noted by patrick, the current aero package is woefully undeveloped - like the MVR-02, it was designed using CFD alone, mainly because of time and financial constraints. Unfortunately, the CFD facilities Aston Martin have had access to are not as powerful as Wirth's design suite, and they haven't had the time to really optimise the overall package, so the car lacks the intricacy of their rivals - added to their power deficit, it explains why the car is so slow down the straights (during the Le Mans test day, they were barely hitting 300kph, whereas the Pescarolo cars, for example, were hitting 326kph), and somewhat sluggish in the corners too.

So, why have they gone down this route? Partially because the design process was started quite late on the new car, it is simply unrefined - the old Lola-Aston coupe, by comparison, was a fairly well optimised design, so there is probably less development potential in that car. In addition, Aston Martin a trying to set up a long term development program - this car is really an intermediate design as part of a three year program, whereas the old car would only be valid for this year. Still, they've made a few rather odd design decisions along the way, so you wonder if they'd have been better off just using the old car and instead spent a whole year developing the replacement, instead of trying to rush in the replacement to try to gain a bit more field testing).

[F1000X]

So, why have they gone down this route? Partially because the design process was started quite late on the new car, it is simply unrefined - the old Lola-Aston coupe, by comparison, was a fairly well optimised design, so there is probably less development potential in that car. In addition, Aston Martin a trying to set up a long term development program - this car is really an intermediate design as part of a three year program, whereas the old car would only be valid for this year. Still, they've made a few rather odd design decisions along the way, so you wonder if they'd have been better off just using the old car and instead spent a whole year developing the replacement, instead of trying to rush in the replacement to try to gain a bit more field testing).

Interesting, hopefully by 2012 they will have shaken out the problems and really developed the car into something competitive. I'm just afraid that such a poor showing this year could potentially cost them some much needed sponsorship dollars. I for one think they would have been better off developing the car away from competition, and running the old car one last time. It's really a shame that the Aston V12 is probably going to disappear after this year.

[DanielPT]

I'm rooting for Pedro Lamy.

Me too!

[mario]

So, why have they gone down this route? Partially because the design process was started quite late on the new car, it is simply unrefined - the old Lola-Aston coupe, by comparison, was a fairly well optimised design, so there is probably less development potential in that car. In addition, Aston Martin a trying to set up a long term development program - this car is really an intermediate design as part of a three year program, whereas the old car would only be valid for this year. Still, they've made a few rather odd design decisions along the way, so you wonder if they'd have been better off just using the old car and instead spent a whole year developing the replacement, instead of trying to rush in the replacement to try to gain a bit more field testing).

Interesting, hopefully by 2012 they will have shaken out the problems and really developed the car into something competitive. I'm just afraid that such a poor showing this year could potentially cost them some much needed sponsorship dollars. I for one think they would have been better off developing the car away from competition, and running the old car one last time. It's really a shame that the Aston V12 is probably going to disappear after this year.

I'd have to agree with you there - it looks like Aston Martin have really tried to take on a lot at once, and not given themselves enough time to adapt. However, I suppose that they were kind of forced to go in that direction, given that they really annoyed Lola Cars over the Aston Martin DBR1-2 (which would have restricted their ability to outsource chassis development for 2011 to them).

At least, though, whilst the Aston V12 will be dropped from the LMP1 field in 2012, once the ACO tightens the rules on using pre-2011 prototype cars, at least it will live on in the GT classes - and, if anything, the DBR9 might get a new lease of life with the combined World Endurance Series (the proposed joint Endurance Racing series, run by the ACO and the FIA).

[DanielPT]

That Audi shark fin sure makes the car look ugly. It even makes F1 shark wings look amazing...

[GroupLotusRenault]

With the 24 hour race, they have now announce the return of the Endurance World Series for 2012 which will help the LMP1 & LMP2 classes. Mario with the Aston Martin team should they use this 24 hour race as atest and get ready for 2012 series?

[dinizintheoven]

I can't help noticing phrases such as "rushed into competition too early" and "Lola" in the same posts. Next thing we know, MasterCard sponsorship will start appearing on the Aston.

[Walsh_e]

11 hours to go until pretty much 26 solid hours of motor racing, it's going to be good

[mario]

With the 24 hour race, they have now announce the return of the Endurance World Series for 2012 which will help the LMP1 & LMP2 classes. Mario with the Aston Martin team should they use this 24 hour race as atest and get ready for 2012 series?

That seems to be what they are doing at the moment - though, cynically speaking, you have to question whether it's really worthwhile racing in a category where Audi and Peugeot can get the rules bent to their favour?
After all, they ignored a complaint by Aston Martin in the 2010 24 Hours about the R15+ (to do with the rear wing, I believe), and also ignored evidence that suggested both diesel cars were possibly running illegal soot filters in last years 24 Hours (the rules say that the exhaust gasses from a diesel car should not produce visible soot emissions - but both Audi's and Peugeot's cars were caught on camera with quite visible soot emissions coming from the exhausts).

[whatisdeletrazdoing]

Hey guys, I found a R18 TDI and a Peugeot 905 in Lego form:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55752758@N03/5287828086/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dubba_d/5313191147/

[Klon]

Only a few minutes until the start. Hoepfully, Ulbricht and his Audi crew get their smug arses kicked.