Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **19 Jun 2016, 20:20**

Turbo went bang after 23 hours and 57 minutes... :badoer:

Posted: **20 Jun 2016, 04:44**

I have never been that much of a Toyota fan, but I do feel very sorry for them, very bad luck

Posted: **20 Jun 2016, 09:24**

Even after a day you can feel the painful heartbreak when seeing the replays of that moment.

Posted: **21 Jun 2016, 10:53**

DanielPT wrote:Even after a day you can feel the painful heartbreak when seeing the replays of that moment.

Oh, for sure... Very painfull.

Loved the race, and loved the commentary.. Portugal really has the best commentators in the business

Posted: **18 Aug 2016, 11:36**

http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/lamb ... ct-807633/

Posted: **18 Aug 2016, 17:02**

golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/lamborghini-tipped-for-2018-wec-entry-with-huracan-project-807633/

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, as I don't follow sports cars nearly as much anymore, but is this really news? I mean Lambo has been running over here in GT3 for like 15 years. How much different is a GTE car?

Posted: **19 Aug 2016, 11:55**

Wallio wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/lamborghini-tipped-for-2018-wec-entry-with-huracan-project-807633/

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, as I don't follow sports cars nearly as much anymore, but is this really news? I mean Lambo has been running over here in GT3 for like 15 years. How much different is a GTE car?

Not a stupid question to me at all, so no apologies are necessary. To answer your question, it is kind of news as Lamborghini has until this year been "under the radar" of the big leagues in sports car leagues. Starting this year it has joined the WeatherTech SportsCar Championship organized by the International Motor Sports Association (IMSA), the top organization in sports cars in North America. It was only a matter of time before it joins the WEC to do battle with the elite manufactures of Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Chevrolet, Ford, etc. I find this big news for the fans of Lamborghini.

Posted: **19 Aug 2016, 14:33**

golic_2004 wrote:
Not a stupid question to me at all, so no apologies are necessary. To answer your question, it is kind of news as Lamborghini has until this year been "under the radar" of the big leagues in sports car leagues. Starting this year it has joined the WeatherTech SportsCar Championship organized by the International Motor Sports Association (IMSA), the top organization in sports cars in North America. It was only a matter of time before it joins the WEC to do battle with the elite manufactures of Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Chevrolet, Ford, etc. I find this big news for the fans of Lamborghini.

Thanks for the reply. The idea of a factory Lambo team going up against Risi, and the Corvette boys is pretty cool. I still miss Panoz though...

Posted: **08 Oct 2016, 13:28**

So, it seems that the LMP1 class is due to shrink yet again - after holding out for several years in the privateer class, Rebellion have announced that they will be withdrawing from the LMP1 class and are dropping down into the LMP2 class in 2017.

At the moment, however, it is not yet clear which championship they will be moving to, nor what chassis they will be using for next year. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/10/0 ... -2017.html

To be honest, I had a feeling for a while that this might happen - with the expected cost inflation for 2017 due to the new rules the ACO has brought out, there was a feeling that the privateer class was no longer financially sustainable. As things stand, Kolles is now the last privateer entrant in the LMP1 class for 2017 - but I do have to wonder whether AER (the main engine supplier for the privateer teams) will have the financial resources to manufacture engines for just one single team for the long term.

He's had a knack of hanging in there somehow, but I would not be surprised if Kolles calls it quits after 2017 as well - or, for that matter, if the ACO decides to abolish the privateer LMP1 class altogether (it would fit with their desire to make it a "manufacturers only" class and, with just Kolles left fighting that corner, he'd have very little leverage to work with).

Posted: **13 Oct 2016, 15:18**

Thanks for the memories Aussie Grit http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/webb ... 16-838165/

Posted: **13 Oct 2016, 22:04**

mario wrote:So, it seems that the LMP1 class is due to shrink yet again - after holding out for several years in the privateer class, Rebellion have announced that they will be withdrawing from the LMP1 class and are dropping down into the LMP2 class in 2017.

At the moment, however, it is not yet clear which championship they will be moving to, nor what chassis they will be using for next year. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/10/0 ... -2017.html

To be honest, I had a feeling for a while that this might happen - with the expected cost inflation for 2017 due to the new rules the ACO has brought out, there was a feeling that the privateer class was no longer financially sustainable. As things stand, Kolles is now the last privateer entrant in the LMP1 class for 2017 - but I do have to wonder whether AER (the main engine supplier for the privateer teams) will have the financial resources to manufacture engines for just one single team for the long term.

He's had a knack of hanging in there somehow, but I would not be surprised if Kolles calls it quits after 2017 as well - or, for that matter, if the ACO decides to abolish the privateer LMP1 class altogether (it would fit with their desire to make it a "manufacturers only" class and, with just Kolles left fighting that corner, he'd have very little leverage to work with).

i kinda saw that coming. when they moved from a heavily-modified Lola to a only-slightly-modified Oreca 05 chassis, it was clear to me that they were on the way down the ladder.

Posted: **14 Oct 2016, 04:43**

Exit stage left Mark Webber.

Posted: **14 Oct 2016, 16:13**

golic_2004 wrote:Thanks for the memories Aussie Grit http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/webb ... 16-838165/

Posted: **15 Oct 2016, 19:39**

nome66 wrote:
mario wrote:So, it seems that the LMP1 class is due to shrink yet again - after holding out for several years in the privateer class, Rebellion have announced that they will be withdrawing from the LMP1 class and are dropping down into the LMP2 class in 2017.

At the moment, however, it is not yet clear which championship they will be moving to, nor what chassis they will be using for next year. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/10/0 ... -2017.html

To be honest, I had a feeling for a while that this might happen - with the expected cost inflation for 2017 due to the new rules the ACO has brought out, there was a feeling that the privateer class was no longer financially sustainable. As things stand, Kolles is now the last privateer entrant in the LMP1 class for 2017 - but I do have to wonder whether AER (the main engine supplier for the privateer teams) will have the financial resources to manufacture engines for just one single team for the long term.

He's had a knack of hanging in there somehow, but I would not be surprised if Kolles calls it quits after 2017 as well - or, for that matter, if the ACO decides to abolish the privateer LMP1 class altogether (it would fit with their desire to make it a "manufacturers only" class and, with just Kolles left fighting that corner, he'd have very little leverage to work with).

i kinda saw that coming. when they moved from a heavily-modified Lola to a only-slightly-modified Oreca 05 chassis, it was clear to me that they were on the way down the ladder.

And yet, in some ways, this year has been one of their more successful efforts, albeit mainly more down to the fact that the manufacturer teams had an unusually high retirement rate in the opening races.

Still, the rate at which spending has skyrocketed in the LMP1 class - Henri Pescarolo has claimed that spending has risen sixfold since he last competed in the LMP1 class with his Judd engined cars - has clearly made things unsustainable.

What might be making the ACO a lot more nervous is the fact that, just as the privateer base is drying up, there are increasing rumours that they might be losing one of the biggest hitters - and one of the biggest sponsors - in the WEC as well.

There have long been rumours about Audi withdrawing from the WEC, and now there are yet more rumours coming out that Audi will axe their LMP1 programme at the end of 2017. The talk is that, as VW are trying to pivot away from diesel cars given the damage to their reputation after the dieselgate saga and the much tougher Euro 6 regulations on diesel engines, the R18 is effectively worthless to Audi as a marketing tool given it doesn't fit at all with the new image they are trying to create.

Furthermore, the ACO wants to change the engine regulations in 2018 so the manufacturers have to use a 10 MJ energy recovery system - a rule change which might be a struggle for Audi to meet (they've only now hit the 6 MJ class), and has already proven to be very costly for them to do so (there is talk that Audi's budget has swollen to around €200 million per year).

Now, it is true that, if the rumours resurface on an annual basis, they will eventually be right one day - still, the ACO surely has to see that there are a lot of warning signs now. We know that at least two major manufacturers - BMW and Peugeot - have been approached by the ACO and rejected their overtures due to cost inflation in the LMP1 class, yet it looks like their regulation changes are going to continue pushing costs upwards yet again.

Posted: **15 Oct 2016, 19:44**

Simtek wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:Thanks for the memories Aussie Grit http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/webb ... 16-838165/

In some ways, I think that it is a good time for him to call time on his racing career - I respect the fact that he has decided to bow out gracefully now than making the mistake that too many drivers do and hold on for just that bit too long. It'll be interesting to see what he turns his hand to next - we've got some good memories to look back on, but hopefully a positive future as well.

Posted: **17 Oct 2016, 14:34**

http://wtf1.co.uk/zanardi-bmw-win-italy/

this guy continues to amaze me

Posted: **17 Oct 2016, 21:18**

Well lads, there's drive & determination, and then there's that.

He's been a successful racing driver.
He came back to racing after an accident that nearly killed him.
He took up another sport relatively late in life and won a paralympic Gold medal at nearly 50 years of age.

He's more than earned himself a nice retirement to a vinyard in the south of Italy, but no. Much more fun to go school a GT3 field where most of the drivers are probably 10+ years younger than him instead, in his first race in the car, no less.

Posted: **19 Oct 2016, 18:44**

dude knows how to wheel a Bimmer round a track! something about that showrun in the hand-controlled '06 Sauber Bimmer must have done something

i don't think he qualifies for handicap parking anymore!

Posted: **21 Oct 2016, 20:02**

No point in making it complicated, so let's just put it in three words:

ALPHA
AS
F*CK

Posted: **26 Oct 2016, 10:46**

http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi ... 16-843080/ Audi's gone :chilton:

Posted: **26 Oct 2016, 13:58**

golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi-to-leave-wec-at-the-end-of-2016-843080/ Audi's gone

#AudiF1Confirmed :glasses:

Posted: **26 Oct 2016, 15:21**

Simtek wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi-to-leave-wec-at-the-end-of-2016-843080/ Audi's gone

#AudiFEConfirmed

Fixed to sadly reflect reality, rather than through this forum's lovely rose-tinted glasses...

Posted: **26 Oct 2016, 17:48**

dr-baker wrote:
Simtek wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi-to-leave-wec-at-the-end-of-2016-843080/ Audi's gone

#AudiF5Confirmed

Fixed to sadly reflect reality, rather than through this forum's lovely rose-tinted glasses...

Now it's fixed.

Posted: **26 Oct 2016, 19:20**

Simtek wrote:
#AudiF5Confirmed

Now it's fixed.

That never was funny and never will be, nor are you particularly clever for thinking of it. Sorry, mate. :roll:

Posted: **27 Oct 2016, 09:00**

Klon wrote:
Simtek wrote:
#AudiF5Confirmed

Now it's fixed.

That never was funny and never will be, nor are you particularly clever for thinking of it. Sorry, mate.

If only it were in reference to a series with 5-litre internal-combustion engines!

Posted: **30 Oct 2016, 16:09**

dr-baker wrote:
Simtek wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi-to-leave-wec-at-the-end-of-2016-843080/ Audi's gone

#AudiFEConfirmed

Fixed to sadly reflect reality, rather than through this forum's lovely rose-tinted glasses...

Well, moving towards Formula E fits with the very aggressive pivot that VW are making towards electric vehicles to undo the reputational damage they suffered from the whole "Dieselgate" saga. Asides from that, the cost of retooling their production lines towards electric vehicles is fairly high and, given it looks like Audi are cutting quite a lot of their motorsport activities entirely, I suspect that it was an obvious target for them to cut costs and to divert funding towards that area instead.

Posted: **31 Oct 2016, 09:59**

Klon wrote:
Simtek wrote:
#AudiF5Confirmed

Now it's fixed.

If only it were in reference to a series with 5-litre internal-combustion engines!

Ask and you shall receive

Posted: **31 Oct 2016, 11:30**

Wizzie wrote:Ask and you shall receive

Yeah, but that's neither F5 nor FE, and you damn well knew what I meant! :facepalm:

yet also

Posted: **30 Nov 2016, 18:05**

So Cadillac of all people have announced an LMP1 .....errr DPi chassis for 2017! Car looks stunning and I love that they are running the big Chevy V8.

http://www.imsa.com/news/112016/cadilla ... 24-daytona

So the ALMS err, USCS, errr WSCC has three manufacturers in DPi, Mazda, Nissan (Ligier with a body kit), plus the four spec LMP2 chassis. The Mazada and Caddy look beyond sexy too.

DPi will have 7 chassis, and 4 engines in it. LMP1 has what next year? Toyota and Porsche?

My only question is can DPis run at Le Mans? or are they still banned like the old DPs were? I'd love to see the Caddies and Mazadas make the trip

Posted: **02 Dec 2016, 13:23**

Wallio wrote:So Cadillac of all people have announced an LMP1 .....errr DPi chassis for 2017! Car looks stunning and I love that they are running the big Chevy V8.

http://www.imsa.com/news/112016/cadilla ... 24-daytona

So the ALMS err, USCS, errr WSCC has three manufacturers in DPi, Mazda, Nissan (Ligier with a body kit), plus the four spec LMP2 chassis. The Mazada and Caddy look beyond sexy too.

http://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/cad ... 55539/?s=1

And NASCAR legend Jeff Gordon will take part in the Rolex 24 in that same car, partnering with Wayne Taylor Racing's Jordan & Ricky Taylor and Max Angelelli.
http://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/jef ... rs-855878/

Posted: **03 Dec 2016, 12:35**

Wallio wrote:So Cadillac of all people have announced an LMP1 .....errr DPi chassis for 2017! Car looks stunning and I love that they are running the big Chevy V8.

http://www.imsa.com/news/112016/cadilla ... 24-daytona

So the ALMS err, USCS, errr WSCC has three manufacturers in DPi, Mazda, Nissan (Ligier with a body kit), plus the four spec LMP2 chassis. The Mazada and Caddy look beyond sexy too.

DPi will have 7 chassis, and 4 engines in it. LMP1 has what next year? Toyota and Porsche?

My only question is can DPis run at Le Mans? or are they still banned like the old DPs were? I'd love to see the Caddies and Mazadas make the trip

Actually, you only have four chassis manufacturers - despite appearances, the Nissan, Mazda and Cadillac entries are at their core just slightly modified LMP2 cars that are still based around the standardised chassis designs the ACO has mandated for the 2017 rule set.

In this case, Cadillac have chosen to base their car around Dallara's LMP2 chassis, whilst Mazda's car uses Riley's chassis and Nissan's entry is just a slightly modified version of Ligier's chassis. The cars from Nissan, Mazda and Cadillac have all been subjected to the same wind tunnel testing to ensure that they have the same performance and will, I believe, be pegged to the performance of the standard LMP2 cars, whilst the engines of all of the cars will also be bench tested to ensure that they have essentially the same peak power and torque curve - so the cars aren't as different as you might first think.

With regards to competing at Le Mans, that is under discussion but hasn't been fully resolved - because the IMSA cars use different engines and have different bodywork packages, they are currently not allowed to run in the LMP2 category (they haven't released enough data to ensure that they engines in use in the IMSA series could be performance balanced against the standard Gibson V8 engine, and they'd have to run the standard LMP2 bodywork kit if they wanted to run in that class).

However, the ACO has considered possibly allowing the Daytona Prototypes to run in the privateer LMP1 class instead. They have a comparable power output to the car that Rebellion used to run (about 600bhp), though they'd need to add about 50kg of ballast to meet the minimum weight requirements. That said, they'd still be miles behind the manufacturer LMP1 cars, and at the moment it remains to be seen whether the performance balancing efforts against the standard LMP2 cars has worked or not.

Posted: **05 Dec 2016, 16:30**

While I must say the fact that they sound like Indy cars (body kits on a spec chassis) is unbelievably disappointing, it does explain GM'S involvement.

Well hopefully they go to La Sathe. Lord knows they need Prototype entries.

Posted: **06 Dec 2016, 21:46**

Wallio wrote:While I must say the fact that they sound like Indy cars (body kits on a spec chassis) is unbelievably disappointing, it does explain GM'S involvement.

Well hopefully they go to La Sathe. Lord knows they need Prototype entries.

Yes, it does - the ACO's objective is to cut about 30% off the current cost of competing in the LMP2 class, where it is currently estimated that each LMP2 car in the WEC costs about €3 million per season, and that low cost is likely to be attractive to the likes of GM.

That said, the ACO have taken what can almost be described as a "slash and burn" approach by banning new chassis manufacturers to that class and implementing rigid cost caps (which are not even allowed to fluctuate to take into account currency fluctuations), along with mass standardisation of components to the point where the series is extremely close to becoming a full spec series.

I imagine that, with Audi pulling out, the ACO may be more willing to allow the IMSA outfits to compete at Le Mans to bolster the prototype field - although, as noted before, there is a question as to how the ACO could integrate them into the existing car categories.

The other question is whether or not the manufacturer LMP1 teams might be comfortable with that idea. The ACO has been floating the idea of paring back the performance of the manufacturer LMP1 teams back to lap times of about 3m25s at Le Mans, give or take a second or two either way.

At the same time, the indication so far from the initial tests on the new LMP2 cars is that the performance gain between 2016 and 2017 might be larger than expected - there is talk of top speeds around the 217mph mark (or about 350kph) and very large jumps in cornering performance too.

Considering that, in 2016, the LMP2 cars only hit 189mph at Le Mans, that is a huge jump in straight line performance - the original expectation was just 10kph, or about 6mph, but it looks like the actual jump is about four times that. The rumours are that the 2017 spec cars could be in the order of 5-6s a lap faster than the 2016 spec cars, pointing to sub 3m30s lap times at Le Mans - at that point, the LMP2 cars would probably be faster than the ByKolles car (which could only manage a 3m34s lap in 2016) and would be beginning to trouble the sort of lap times that Rebellion used to do.

If, and it is a big if, the ACO did manage to peg back the manufacturer LMP1 cars, then the LMP2 cars could begin to become uncomfortably close in performance - especially if the IMSA cars could run as privateer LMP1 cars which, although it would come with a slight weight penalty, would potentially allow them a bit more flexibility with their engine.

Posted: **16 Dec 2016, 07:50**

Testing, Testing! one two three! Testing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKuuZRn6U0w - Dallara "Jumbo" Nederland Racing LMP2 with Barichello at the wheel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYV5ILrkt_4 - Oreca 07 Rebellion and JDC-Miller LMP2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orp_VeOE_Yo - Ligier JSP217 of PR1 Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnMH4ab0x-U - Cadillac/Dallara DPi-V.R. with the 6.2L GM LT4 V8 from last year's Coyote and Dallara Corvettes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4H-t51m3ls - Mazda/Riley-Multimatic RT24P with the AER/Mazda 2.0L turbo 4cyl, similar last year's engine, but 'totally new'.

some footage of Sebring and Daytona test sessions with the new LMP2s and DPis, except Nissan's Ligier. Something is bothering me about their postponing public outings of ESM's Nissan-Ligier DPi. makes me feel the same way as when Nissan's, USA-based NISMO LMP1 program had issues......
ALSO: one thing of note, i haven't seen any video footage of the "Visit Florida" Racing team's Riley-Multimatic Mk30 yet, BUT there are plenty of pictures of it.

Posted: **23 Dec 2016, 02:09**

look who decided to take some pictures

Posted: **19 Jan 2017, 10:37**

I present to you one of the finest racing fields that has ever been assembled

Posted: **20 Jan 2017, 20:33**

Wizzie wrote:I present to you one of the finest racing fields that has ever been assembled

It is something rather special. I'm just annoyed I can't make it this year! Hopefully next year for a Daytona-Bathurst double header.

Posted: **21 Jan 2017, 02:19**

What a field, the 12 hour grid is getting stronger every year. Will be cheering for Skaifey of course

Posted: **03 Feb 2017, 16:11**

KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR! KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR!! KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR!!!

Sorry. Now with that out of the way, i have a question for those on here that are more up on the regs than I am (if you gents are still around, board seems quite dead). While watching some of the 24 at a hotel, the US announcers mentioned the Ford GT exploiting some GTE loopholes and basically being a prototype in GT clothes.

Que Tuesday and a few "leaked" photos of the mid-engined C8 Corvette mule appear again. Now there have bee rumors of a mid-engined vette since 1953, so I normally ignore them, but this car is built and runs, the first running MR-Vette since the '70s. And what is the word this time? That GM will release it in 2018 as a halo homolegation special to run at Le Mans, with GM even saying they need to exploit the same loopholes as Ford to compete.

So my question is, what loopholes?

Posted: **03 Feb 2017, 21:01**

Wallio wrote:KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR! KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR!! KUBICA TO LEAD BYKOLLES THIS YEAR!!!

Sorry. Now with that out of the way, i have a question for those on here that are more up on the regs than I am (if you gents are still around, board seems quite dead). While watching some of the 24 at a hotel, the US announcers mentioned the Ford GT exploiting some GTE loopholes and basically being a prototype in GT clothes.

Que Tuesday and a few "leaked" photos of the mid-engined C8 Corvette mule appear again. Now there have bee rumors of a mid-engined vette since 1953, so I normally ignore them, but this car is built and runs, the first running MR-Vette since the '70s. And what is the word this time? That GM will release it in 2018 as a halo homolegation special to run at Le Mans, with GM even saying they need to exploit the same loopholes as Ford to compete.

So my question is, what loopholes?

In the case of Ford, I believe that the complaints centre around the fact that the car was designed as a racing car first (particularly with regards to the aerodynamics of the car - Ford have talked about how the car was designed from the start to produce as much downforce as possible), before then being produced as a road car afterwards to enable it to fit through the homologation procedures.

A number of features of the engine also appear to have been designed around the homologation restrictions that the ACO imposes (the fuel injection systems, which are only allowed if the production engine features it, or the use of sequential turbocharging, again something only allowed if the production engine features it).

There is also an argument that, in some ways, the ACO has allowed Ford to technically circumvent some of the homologation requirements in the first place.

For example, the regulations state that "The comparison with a reference series production car (original car) must be possible at the request from the FIA/ACO." in order to ensure that the manufacturers aren't fitting modifications which aren't allowed (say, by fitting a direct injection system which isn't fitted to the production car).

As the car did not go into production until the end of 2016, long after the Ford GT was accepted for homologation, it could be argued that Ford would not have been able to provide a reference car at any point during the season because the car was not in production.

It could also be argued that, as the engine fitted to the Ford GT is a new design, it also fails the minimum production requirements - the regulations state that "The engine must be derived from a series production Engine produced at more than 300 units and fitted to a series vehicle from the same manufacturer."

As it stands, I believe that Ford hasn't hit that minimum production figure of 300 units either, and therefore it could be argued that they shouldn't have been allowed to fit that engine to the car either. In fact, I believe that they won't even make the car available to privateer customers in the GTE Am category - this is strictly a factory only affair.

In some ways, it could therefore be said that the Ford GT is a bit like the homologation specials of the late 1990's, albeit not quite so extreme as those cars were.

Cynically speaking, I cannot help but wonder if the ACO was rather happy to allow Ford to circumvent the homologation requirements given that, not only did the 24 Hours of Le Mans get a big publicity boost from Ford entering the series and talking up the heritage of the original Ford GT, Ford also paid for the ACO to host a major exhibition about US participants at Le Mans that also happened to feature all of Ford's works GT cars as the centrepiece of the exhibition. Given the allegations that they effectively paid their way to the win in 1966, it wouldn't be surprising if money played its part in 2016 as well...

Grand Prix Rejects

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