Grand Prix Rejects

Now the Mail and Telegraph are reporting a Button-Alonso line-up at McLaren. Magnussen might very well be screwed for next year if this is true. We'll all know for sure tomorrow.

sswishbone wrote:No one wins in this really, if Button is chosen people will say that he has cut short a promising career for Magnussen, if Magnussen gets chosen it'll be a conspiracy to force out a driver who has been such a great ambassador for the sport. Mclaren needed this, ideally, to have been announced by Suzuka.

There they could have had some big press thing about the future with Honda and how they'll bring success and all that shite, giving times for the driver shafted to find something. With this it seems either go to WEC or another series. Really poor show from Mclaren it has to be said

This. If this is Ron's doing, it only highlights his growing incompetence at running an F1 team. He's well past it now.

I was about to say that, yeah, Telegraph's reporting that Button's been signed for next year.

Funny, the article on BBC that has the headline along the lines of "Derek Warwick thinks McLaren's treatment of Button 'Disgusting'", which that view I totally agree with, never actually mentioned Warwick saying that. Bathplug off Benson.

But based on that title alone, I have to agree that McLaren have not treated Jenson very well. But quite honestly, their man management this year has been woeful throughout the whole year. To me, it's not too much of a surprise that things are ending this way. It's Ron's fault for career-killing either way at this stage.

If Button's cut, that's not such a huge loss. Button, as much of a fan of his I am, has done a lot for the sport and has achieved everything he's wished to achieve. He realistically doesn't have many racing years left anyway. But if Magnussen is cut off, there surely isn't anything out there left at this stage? This would be the greater shame, because he didn't perform horribly well, but not bad at all. He had Rookie's Syndrome, all rookies have it at some point. His season showed plenty of promise. He's still going to be learning. Managed properly, Magnussen could well be one of F1's best. Has he been managed properly? Hell no. Ron's message to be more aggressive arguably killed off a lot of Kevin's season. With the goings on at McLaren, I wouldn't be surprised if Magnussen ends up in sportscars with his dad. Surely McLaren won't put Magnussen in 3rd driver role, as they have big plans for Vandoorne? Maybe test driver? Either way, it hinders his progress.

Magnussen might need to sit tight and angle for a seat at Haas for 2016.

I'm happy the BBC wouldn't have posted their article if they weren't entirely sure, so I'm happy Button's back for 2015!

Now, a second world title please...!

Don't have a great deal of faith in Benson either, but hoping he's right about this.

Jesus Christ, McLaren. You have one bloody job. Take Old Yeller behind the damn barn already. Here, you can even use my shotgun.

Paul Hayes wrote:Now, a second world title please...!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~! Made my day.

And after all the wait, I can't say I agree with the decision made.

Mclaren / Dennis has gone the safe route, instead of doing the brave thing and taking a punt on youth and potential.

If I was Button I'd wait for the official reveal and then announce my retirement

BREAKING: McLaren admit they, everyone were wrong about Kevin Magnussen

To be totally honest, I'd rather they kept both Button and Magnussen and didn't sign Alonso - think Ron and Fernando are just simply a massive personality clash whether its 2007 or 2015!! (Similar to Ron and Nigel Mansell I reckon!!)

I really wanted to see Mag and Nando team up. A lot of F1 fans will be happy about Button still driving but out with the old and in with the new.

Surely, I mean, SURELY McLaren will have a new livery for next season what with the Mercs going out the door finally. I'm so bored of this silver crap now.

CoopsII wrote:Surely, I mean, SURELY McLaren will have a new livery for next season what with the Mercs going out the door finally. I'm so bored of this silver crap now.

Same here.
And the fact they dumped Magnussen out the door is a bad move in the long term. Kevin will be probably taking a sabbatical while signing a possible Haas deal for 2016.

Shizuka wrote:Kevin will be probably taking a sabbatical while signing a possible Haas deal for 2016.

Surely a year as spare driver for McLaren with the chance of a race drive after would be better than that?

CoopsII wrote:Surely a year as spare driver for McLaren with the chance of a race drive after would be better than that?

Stoffel Vandoorne would like to have a few words with you about that.
https://twitter.com/svandoorne/status/5 ... 1787598848

CoopsII wrote:Surely, I mean, SURELY McLaren will have a new livery for next season what with the Mercs going out the door finally. I'm so bored of this silver crap now.

Agreed. I got bored very quickly of the chrome livery. Bring back the classic orange! I find that McLaren have become slightly boring in the last 2 years with their results and especially their livery. All they need is Nick Heidfeld.

Simtek wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Surely, I mean, SURELY McLaren will have a new livery for next season what with the Mercs going out the door finally. I'm so bored of this silver crap now.

Agreed. I got bored very quickly of the chrome livery. Bring back the classic orange! I find that McLaren have become slightly boring in the last 2 years with their results and especially their livery. All they need is Nick Heidfeld.

I lke the silver.

And Nick Heidfeld.

So Kevin is kept as third driver. We'll see.
Ron PLEASE, give us a new goddamn livery already next year. Go orange.

Is that the most experienced team-mate partnership ever?

shinji wrote:Is that the most experienced team-mate partnership ever?

Check for any team that had Patrese in the 90s or Barrichello towards the end of his career.

CoopsII wrote:

shinji wrote:Is that the most experienced team-mate partnership ever?

Check for any team that had Patrese in the 90s or Barrichello towards the end of his career.

Alonso/Button 2015 (start of the season): 504 entries (501 starts)
Button/Barrichello 2009 (end of the season): 460 entries (454 starts)
M Schumacher/Barrichello 2005 (end of the season): 450 entries (445 starts)
Mansell/Patrese 1992 (end of the season): 426 entries (421 starts)

CoopsII wrote:

shinji wrote:Is that the most experienced team-mate partnership ever?

Check for any team that had Patrese in the 90s or Barrichello towards the end of his career.

Unless I have overlooked something major, the most experienced line-up of all time was Button and Barrichello at the 2009 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with at that time 460 GP entries between the two of them, so Alonso and Button would indeed break that record.

Shizuka wrote:Ron PLEASE, give us a new goddamn livery already next year. Go orange.

The one colour that will clash with any other they might use, like red?

And confirmed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30430564

IceG wrote:And confirmed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30430564

...about an hour ago.

I didn't see a specific source quoted anywhere on thread today

IceG wrote:I didn't see a specific source quoted anywhere on thread today

I think the BBC one had been up for a bit but it seems like its been strongly rumoured since late last night.

Captain Hammer wrote:

Shizuka wrote:Ron PLEASE, give us a new goddamn livery already next year. Go orange.

The one colour that will clash with any other they might use, like red?

Black on orange would work.

I like Button but like Mags I feel is a better driver going forward. But I guess it was to appease sponsors to have Jense? I don't know but not really happy with the news.

Livery wise I like the chrome silver but with Mercedes, you can't really have it. White and red since no one else is using similar.

Glad that McLaren retained Button. Magnussen wasn't up to it and I prefer for teams to keep their better drivers unless the alternative are rejects. Still, WHY TOOK THEM SO LONG???

I guess it comes down to how you look at McLaren as to whether or not they made the right decision.

If you see them for what they have been in the last few seasons, a bog standard midfield team, then they probably should have kept Magnussen on in the race seat to continue his development whilst the car isn't good enough to win races, so that by the time they are competitive enough they'd have a more complete driver on their hands, compared to Button who would be "past it" by that point.

If you see them as a team who has the potential to challenge for the title in 2015 or 2016, then it makes sense that they kept Button as simply the stronger driver (Magnussen ultimately had a similar year to Perez in 2013, who was judged to have been not good enough) who is more able to help develop the car, and already has a good relationship with Honda. What's more they still have Magnussen on the books, whereas Button would have had no interest in being a reserve driver.

McLaren have taken the view that they are the latter and want to be as competitive in the short-term future rather than playing a long game. I actually agree with this approach personally, especially as they can still play a long game in a way as Button is reportedly only on a year's contract so you feel that Magnussen has a genuine shot at the seat in 2016, along with Vandoorne. Although it's a little harsh on Magnussen (he'll be praying that Vandoorne has a terrible year in GP2), McLaren have ultimately (eventually) put themselves in the strongest position possible.

Absolutely dreadful decision to cast out Kevin for a driver that's surely in his final years. Even if Button retires after 2015, Kevin will probably loose out to Vandoorne anyway. McLaren's young driver program has been completely s*** on.

watka wrote:If you see them as a team who has the potential to challenge for the title in 2015 or 2016, then it makes sense that they kept Button as simply the stronger driver (Magnussen ultimately had a similar year to Perez in 2013, who was judged to have been not good enough) who is more able to help develop the car, and already has a good relationship with Honda.

Button cannot develop a car. It's not a coincidence McLaren turned to shite when he was asked to lead the team. Someone who has to copy his setups in his championship-winning year is not someone that can help your car improve. This decision cannot be justified, except for your last part, i.e. McLaren giving in to Honda's "pressure".

On a short term (let's say 1-2 years), this is a good decision. When both Alonso and Button retire, they'll have K-Mag and Vandoorne to put in the car, and that will be a hell of a partnership. Now, just to hope the Honda engine is good.

CoopsII wrote:

Shizuka wrote:Kevin will be probably taking a sabbatical while signing a possible Haas deal for 2016.

Surely a year as spare driver for McLaren with the chance of a race drive after would be better than that?

It would depend when seats start becoming available at McLaren, not to mention the fact that Vandoorne could potentially displace Magnussen. However, being in a test driver position might not be a total write off if he can pull a move akin to Hulkenberg, but that would be dependent on the amount of free practise time he can rack up this year (something McLaren are probably unlikely to grant, admittedly).

Klon wrote:

watka wrote:If you see them as a team who has the potential to challenge for the title in 2015 or 2016, then it makes sense that they kept Button as simply the stronger driver (Magnussen ultimately had a similar year to Perez in 2013, who was judged to have been not good enough) who is more able to help develop the car, and already has a good relationship with Honda.

Button cannot develop a car. It's not a coincidence McLaren turned to shite when he was asked to lead the team. Someone who has to copy his setups in his championship-winning year is not someone that can help your car improve. This decision cannot be justified, except for your last part, i.e. McLaren giving in to Honda's "pressure".

The thing is, the time that Button has been the team leader of McLaren has also corresponded to the timeframe where their finances have taken a severe knock.

Bear in mind that, ever since 2013, McLaren has been downgraded from Mercedes's official works entry to a customer team; instead of getting free engines, they've been charged the full price for Mercedes's engines (which Clare Williams indicated were $20 million a season).
On top of that, McLaren then proceeded to lose their title sponsor on top of one of their longest serving sponsors (Boss, who've defected to Mercedes), and Ron's tough stance on negotiations means that they've struggled to replace those sponsors. It's no surprise their financial accounts have shown that their income has been dropping whilst their costs have been rising sharply, so McLaren have been running at a loss for the past few years (not a large loss, but losing a few million a year) - don't forget that McLaren suspended payments to their shareholders this year in order to prop up their development budget, something they have never had to do when they were supported by Mercedes.

Asides from that, there is also the issue that McLaren's Technical Department has been in a state of flux over the past few years, since some of their engineers decided to switch over to Mercedes (such as Paddy Lowe) - don't forget that McLaren have been heavily restructuring their Technical Department and senior management team over the past 18 months, and inevitably a change of that magnitude is going to have a major impact on their long term development plans.

All in all, I would say that the real reason why McLaren have recently been rather poor is because McLaren, for all their desires to compete at the front, have not had the resources that they have become accustomed to and have failed to adapt to their changed circumstances.

I like what McLaren did. Here's why: they have two experienced, good drivers, who can develop the Honda engine. It may be even better if the Honda engine is capable of at least beeing better than the Renault and Ferrari engines. Then, after 1-2 years period, when both Button and Alonso retire, they'll have two incredibly talented drivers in K-Mag and Vandoorne to step up into the car and be competitive off the bath.

Miguel98 wrote:I like what McLaren did. Here's why: they have two experienced, good drivers, who can develop the Honda engine. It may be even better if the Honda engine is capable of at least beeing better than the Renault and Ferrari engines. Then, after 1-2 years period, when both Button and Alonso retire, they'll have two incredibly talented drivers in K-Mag and Vandoorne to step up into the car and be competitive off the bath.

Good in theory, but that's assuming K-Mag and Stoffel don't get impatient and look for a drive elsewhere...

AustralianStig wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:I like what McLaren did. Here's why: they have two experienced, good drivers, who can develop the Honda engine. It may be even better if the Honda engine is capable of at least beeing better than the Renault and Ferrari engines. Then, after 1-2 years period, when both Button and Alonso retire, they'll have two incredibly talented drivers in K-Mag and Vandoorne to step up into the car and be competitive off the bath.

Good in theory, but that's assuming K-Mag and Stoffel don't get impatient and look for a drive elsewhere...

That wouldn't be wise from their part. Realistically, McLaren is the best drive they have available to them in years to come. Mercedes have Rosberg and Hamilton locked for more years than an Alonso - Button pairing. To drive a Red Bull you have to belong to Red Bull as a young driver. Williams are perfectly happy with their pairing and if Massa retired or Bottas went to other pastures (say Ferrari) they look set to go and grab Nasr, who, by then, will have decent experience time from Sauber. As for Ferrari, they have Vettel and Raikkonen although that Kimi's seat might be available soon. Still, it is well known that Ferrari don't put inexperienced drivers on their cars. As for lower grid cars, ask Hulkenberg how many years it is taking him to climb up to a front of the grid drive. The last one doing it was his team-mate (to McLaren no less) and things didn't end well. All in all it is unlikely that they can find a better career path than to wait a couple of years for a drive. Also, unless third cars come into play, it will be difficult to find teams willing to let McLaren put a driver of their own into one of their seats.