Grand Prix Rejects

Biscione wrote:What if...Pawn Stars and Storage Wars did an F1 theme crossover?

YOU WATCH TOO MUCH REALITY TV!

Biscione wrote:What if...Pawn Stars and Storage Wars did an F1 theme crossover?

With Lotus "development" drivers as storage units?

Miguel98 wrote:

Biscione wrote:What if...Pawn Stars and Storage Wars did an F1 theme crossover?

With Lotus "development" drivers as storage units?

Well, I do believe one of them has some sizeable "assets"...

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/ ... 4401636352

Zayn Malik new development driver for Lotus?

dr-baker wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:

Biscione wrote:What if...Pawn Stars and Storage Wars did an F1 theme crossover?

With Lotus "development" drivers as storage units?

Well, I do believe one of them has some sizeable "assets"...

I offer a night for her assets!

And over at Sauber, it now looks as if Willem Toet is on his way out of the team - Kaltenborn has stated that he is being put on "gardening leave".

"He is still employed, but he's on gardening leave. It's not a premature termination, it's just ending."

When asked if Toet will be replaced, Kaltenborn said: "We are in a restructuring process of the company. We have changed a couple of positions and that's part of it as well."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118198

Adrian Sutil has been announced as Williams reserve driver, alongside Alex Lynn.

Miguel98 wrote:Adrian Sutil has been announced as Williams reserve driver, alongside Alex Lynn.

Presumably if Bottas can't race this weekend, Adrian Sutil will step in, rather than Alex Lynn or Susie Wolff.

See if we can get 1,000,000 signatures from this website for #bringbacksutil and get him in the car. It's what we all want It's what we all want It's what we all want

He hasnt even raced for McLaren yet but looks like cracks may already be showing between Alonso and McLaren...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32065185

20 years after McLaren hired another ex-champ...

#BrinBackSutil please! Yes, I'm the only fan of him in the world of 7 billion people. but Bottas is reported being good. Okay, next opportunity!

Collieafc wrote:20 years after McLaren hired another ex-champ...

Meaning Alonso will turn out to be too fat for the chassis, and Jenson Button will suffer appendicitis, requiring his replacement.

AxelP800 wrote:#BrinBackSutil please! Yes, I'm the only fan of him in the world of 7 billion people.

The user AdrianSutil would disagree.

Backmarker wrote:

Miguel98 wrote:Adrian Sutil has been announced as Williams reserve driver, alongside Alex Lynn.

Presumably if Bottas can't race this weekend, Adrian Sutil will step in, rather than Alex Lynn or Susie Wolff.

MY reading of this situation is:

They can't put Susie Wolff in the car because they're a customer Mercedes team and hubby is scared she'll beat his team if she drove for Williams.

Personally, I would like to see Sutil in the Williams and for him to put it on the podium. That way Pierluigi Martini will reclaim the record for most races without a podium.

Williams confirming once and for all that Susie Wolff is not employed for her driving skill. And I am totally ok with that. She's intelligent, a steady pair of hands and a great interviewee but there are more worthy drivers out there for the reserve drive.

Alex Lynn isn't quite ready for F1 judging by his race craft last year.

Simtek wrote:Personally, I would like to see Sutil in the Williams and for him to put it on the podium. That way Pierluigi Martini will reclaim the record for most races without a podium.

Yeah, but he'll lose that record to Nico Hulkenberg eventually.

BigG80 wrote:Williams confirming once and for all that Susie Wolff is not employed for her driving skill. And I am totally ok with that. She's intelligent, a steady pair of hands and a great interviewee but there are more worthy drivers out there for the reserve drive.

Alex Lynn isn't quite ready for F1 judging by his race craft last year.

True. Lynn may have shown that he can banzai a lap and dominate but he pissed away so many points in sprint races

mrfakeboullier wrote:

BigG80 wrote:Williams confirming once and for all that Susie Wolff is not employed for her driving skill. And I am totally ok with that. She's intelligent, a steady pair of hands and a great interviewee but there are more worthy drivers out there for the reserve drive.

Alex Lynn isn't quite ready for F1 judging by his race craft last year.

True. Lynn may have shown that he can banzai a lap and dominate but he pissed away so many points in sprint races

Well, it didn't exactly help that the GP3 car is awful for facilitating overtaking anyway. Or that he had issues in the Spanish and Austrian sprint races.

FullMetalJack wrote:

Simtek wrote:Personally, I would like to see Sutil in the Williams and for him to put it on the podium. That way Pierluigi Martini will reclaim the record for most races without a podium.

Yeah, but he'll lose that record to Nico Hulkenberg eventually.

Ooh, that's a harsh thing to say, but the way things are going that is very much possible, and this is coming from a Hulk fan. Also I would like to Sutil get a podium as well, I used to complain a lot about how he and Hulk kept missing out.

good_Ralf wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:

Simtek wrote:Personally, I would like to see Sutil in the Williams and for him to put it on the podium. That way Pierluigi Martini will reclaim the record for most races without a podium.

Yeah, but he'll lose that record to Nico Hulkenberg eventually.

Ooh, that's a harsh thing to say, but the way things are going that is very much possible, and this is coming from a Hulk fan. Also I would like to Sutil get a podium as well, I used to complain a lot about how he and Hulk kept missing out.

It's true that Hulkenberg is currently looking like the next likeliest driver to take that record - he is already up to 77 starts without a podium, and Force India's current form is unlikely to do much to help him turn that around.

It's somewhat characteristic of Hulkenberg though - he's a driver of considerable potential, and yet whilst he has been adept at dragging very good performances out of his car, he's never quite hit the limelight with shock performance in the way that some of his team mates have.

In 2010, it was Barrichello who scored the best placed finish for Williams and had the longest sustained run of points and in 2012 di Resta lead Hulkenberg for three quarters of the season until Hulkenberg's late burst in performance, by which point everybody else had already secured seats for 2013.

His performances for Sauber caught the attention of many, but given Gutierrez's lowly reputation Hulkenberg always had the problem that there was a nagging question over whether he was that good, or Gutierrez was simply so poor that it exaggerated the difference - so even though his performance was dominant, it didn't add the lustre to his reputation that perhaps he deserved.

As for 2014, whilst he routinely banged in solid results and was admired for the way he was scrapping with Alonso in the early season, it was Perez who seized the moment and secured that podium in Bahrain in a way that left Hulkenerg looking slightly flat footed (especially since Perez passed Hulkenberg in that race).

What if Hülkenberg finds the Porsche gig more fun than F1, and calls it quits mid-season to concentrate full-time on the WEC? Will we see... Giedo van der Garde? ESTEBAN GUTIÉRREZ, for a Mexican super team? Or that darned quick young boy, Pascal Wehrlein?

Waris wrote:What if Hülkenberg finds the Porsche gig more fun than F1, and calls it quits mid-season to concentrate full-time on the WEC? Will we see... Giedo van der Garde? ESTEBAN GUTIÉRREZ, for a Mexican super team? Or that darned quick young boy, Pascal Wehrlein?

I would think that Wehrlein would probably be the most likely candidate - Mercedes cut a deal with Force India over the winter to let him drive their (old) car during pre-season testing, so I'd imagine they'd be interested in doing so again if the chance of a full race seat came up.

It's possible that van der Garde might come into consideration as well, though Gutierrez would probably be less likely given that it would yield no new source of sponsorship for the team given he shares sponsors with Perez (and I doubt that they'd be willing to raise their sponsorship even if they had both of their sponsored drivers in the same team).

Waris wrote:What if Hülkenberg finds the Porsche gig more fun than F1, and calls it quits mid-season to concentrate full-time on the WEC? Will we see... Giedo van der Garde? ESTEBAN GUTIÉRREZ, for a Mexican super team? Or that darned quick young boy, Pascal Wehrlein?

Will be no surprise if Hulk moves to WEC, especially if Force India don't improve and if he doesn't find a good race seat.

Pascal Wehrlein is a good choice, since the team could ask for more technical cooperation with Mercedes.

With Hamilton's dominance emerging early this season and with his likely long-term contract at Mercedes, can we expect to see Rosberg pulling a Vettel and finding a spot at a team where he will not automatically be the No. 2 driver? I could see a move to Williams or Ferrari for 2016 being possible, or perhaps even going to Mclaren.

The first "move over Nico, Lewis is faster than you" moment will be telling.

IceG wrote:With Hamilton's dominance emerging early this season and with his likely long-term contract at Mercedes, can we expect to see Rosberg pulling a Vettel and finding a spot at a team where he will not automatically be the No. 2 driver? I could see a move to Williams or Ferrari for 2016 being possible, or perhaps even going to Mclaren.

The first "move over Nico, Lewis is faster than you" moment will be telling.

Nico to Manor, confirmed

IceG wrote:With Hamilton's dominance emerging early this season and with his likely long-term contract at Mercedes, can we expect to see Rosberg pulling a Vettel and finding a spot at a team where he will not automatically be the No. 2 driver? I could see a move to Williams or Ferrari for 2016 being possible, or perhaps even going to Mclaren.

The first "move over Nico, Lewis is faster than you" moment will be telling.

The only move that actually could see Nico as the lead driver again in the 'top' is either a move to Williams or to Red Bull, not counting Enstone who are still trailing in the midfield after that horacius spell last year.

The only reason Nico will move is because of his relationship with the team or Lewis turning sour, or because of Mercedes actually favouring another driver. I can't see the second thing happening anyway, as I think Nico will be the best second driver available, apart from possibly Bottas and Raikkonen. (And I don't think the latter will contest in 2016 anyway at all, and if he does he will probably stay at Ferrari.) Iconically, they all have Finnish blood running through their veins.

I'd say the seats at Merc are pretty much filled, but the rest is pretty much open. Bottas, Vettel and Alonso will stay at their respective post, and I don't think Ricciardo will move from Red Bull anyway, but all those teams have questionable second drivers for next year.

Hopefully they will finally give Hulkenberg a spell in a decent car. His only decent car was in 2012, but I think he's another one of those 'wrong place wrong time'-guys.

I'd be interested in who Mercedes would replace Rosberg with if he was to leave after this year was over. People were wanting a Hamilton-Ricciardo duel this year, why not when they're both at Mercedes next year? It's not like Red Bull are doing too much this year to make Daniel stay.

And on that note, if Daniel jumps ship, surely the whole structured hierarchal system of Red Bull has failed, unless they can lure an experienced driver into their line-up. But with Vettel and Ricciardo having left, I can't picture Red Bull being too successful without them. Would we see the rumoured selloff of Toro Rosso to Renault? Silly season indeed!

Rob Dylan wrote:I'd be interested in who Mercedes would replace Rosberg with if he was to leave after this year was over.

Can you imagine dinner at the Wolffs?

"So darling, I hear you have a seat available for next season?"

"<cough>Sorry dear, what did you say?"

GerhardTalger wrote:

IceG wrote:With Hamilton's dominance emerging early this season and with his likely long-term contract at Mercedes, can we expect to see Rosberg pulling a Vettel and finding a spot at a team where he will not automatically be the No. 2 driver? I could see a move to Williams or Ferrari for 2016 being possible, or perhaps even going to Mclaren.

The first "move over Nico, Lewis is faster than you" moment will be telling.

The only move that actually could see Nico as the lead driver again in the 'top' is either a move to Williams or to Red Bull, not counting Enstone who are still trailing in the midfield after that horacius spell last year.

The only reason Nico will move is because of his relationship with the team or Lewis turning sour, or because of Mercedes actually favouring another driver. I can't see the second thing happening anyway, as I think Nico will be the best second driver available, apart from possibly Bottas and Raikkonen. (And I don't think the latter will contest in 2016 anyway at all, and if he does he will probably stay at Ferrari.) Iconically, they all have Finnish blood running through their veins.

I'd say the seats at Merc are pretty much filled, but the rest is pretty much open. Bottas, Vettel and Alonso will stay at their respective post, and I don't think Ricciardo will move from Red Bull anyway, but all those teams have questionable second drivers for next year.

Hopefully they will finally give Hulkenberg a spell in a decent car. His only decent car was in 2012, but I think he's another one of those 'wrong place wrong time'-guys.

I'd agree that Rosberg is unlikely to want to move unless something were to go badly wrong over the course of this season.

His relationship with the team and with Hamilton still appears to be fairly strong, whilst at the moment there are no signs that Mercedes would want to actively favour either driver. Furthermore, he would also be aware that he would be walking out of one of the best seats in the sport and offers him a chance to compete for the title, so it would require something major to happen for that to suddenly change.

In the unlikely situation that Rosberg were to leave, Ferrari might be one possible team he could try, but that would only be open if Kimi were to leave and Ferrari chose not to go for Hulkenberg despite their previous expressions of interest in him. Unfortunately for Rosberg, Ferrari's upswing in form seems to have also rekindled some of Kimi's previous enthusiasm - just look at the jokes Arrivabene made before the season about how Kimi was smiling again - whilst Kimi's improving form also makes it less likely that Ferrari would try to ease him out.

The only other one that might work would be Williams, where he could replace Massa - however, that is a move that could meet with objections from Petrobras, so Williams might be wary of getting rid of Massa.

Realistically, though, I think that Rosberg's most likely move will be to stay put at Mercedes and instead try to find a way of outwitting Hamilton. Rosberg can't seem to rely on inherent pace alone over a long stint - he could match or beat Hamilton in qualifying last year, but couldn't hold onto that in race trim - so either he needs to up his game in race trim or he needs to find other ways around Hamilton.

To a certain extent though, I wonder if the restrictions on the radio calls between the pit wall and the drivers has had an adverse effect on Rosberg - it does seem to be the case that he tends to ask for more information from the pit wall, and we've already heard the pit wall have to tell him in successive races that they can't give him the information he sought because it was banned.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118412
Alonso wants to end his career at McLaren, eh? I do recall him saying the same thing about Ferrari, but never mind
It's almost begging for more avatar bets, as to how long Fernando will last before he has a breakdown or something and leaves

Rob Dylan wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118412
Alonso wants to end his career at McLaren, eh? I do recall him saying the same thing about Ferrari, but never mind
It's almost begging for more avatar bets, as to how long Fernando will last before he has a breakdown or something and leaves

He said the same when he joined Ferrari.

Rob Dylan wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118412
Alonso wants to end his career at McLaren, eh? I do recall him saying the same thing about Ferrari, but never mind
It's almost begging for more avatar bets, as to how long Fernando will last before he has a breakdown or something and leaves

Mind you, there have been some who suggested that Ferrari were also trying to push Alonso out of the team, in part because they saw Alonso as being indelibly linked to the old team (for example, through his criticism of Domenicali being forced out of the team).

On another note, there is an indication that, although the weather in China is still expected to be cool, it looks as if the conditions might be slightly milder than first though. Still, it will be interesting to see if Ferrari are able to maintain their form from Malaysia or not - Vettel has already suggested that the conditions in China may be less favourable for them.

I can see Rosberg leaving Mercedes to be honest. So far this season he's been comprehensibly beaten by Hamilton and now the tensions are on the rise. Not sure why, when you're beat you're beat and it's not like he wouldn't have been last season were it not for Hamiltons bad luck. Yes, he's a German but he appears to be a German that Germany has not much interest in, so he can be replaced.

problem is that where can he go to become the leading driver? Or, which top team would hire him to beat whoever is on top after he's been completely defeated by Hamilton?

It's not like the car/tyres doesn't suit him. He's really *not that good*, compared to Hamilton.

CoopsII wrote:I can see Rosberg leaving Mercedes to be honest. So far this season he's been comprehensibly beaten by Hamilton and now the tensions are on the rise. Not sure why, when you're beat you're beat and it's not like he wouldn't have been last season were it not for Hamiltons bad luck. Yes, he's a German but he appears to be a German that Germany has not much interest in, so he can be replaced.

I understand the reasoning behind all of this, but precedent says he stays put. Rosberg and Webber's careers are almost a mirror of each other, and yet despite the ever increasing chasm between lead and second driver, Mark elected to stay put, thanks to still having a great car he may not have had elsewhere.

It really is a case of where could he possibly go - if he leaves, it is to move to a team that will build around him. But what team is going to offer that after being increasingly dominated by Hamilton? There are a select few drivers you would want to build a team around, and the top guys already have not only one in place right now, but one waiting in the wings for further down the line.

I suppose you could almost dub them "franchise drivers", to steal a phrase from American sports. Hamilton at Mercedes, Vettel at Ferrari, Alonso at McLaren - bankable superstars you'd be happy to build a team around were you to acquire their services. Without a WDC to his name, Rosberg isn't one of these drivers, and thus realistically his option is to be "the other driver" at one of the top teams, or become a lead driver at a midfield team.

I would say he has very few solid opportunities. Mercedes is still his best option, when you contrast it to the alternatives. I don't think Red Bull would consider dumping one of either Ricciardo or Kyvat just to get Rosberg. There looks to be a vacacy at Ferrari, and the Scuderia do tend to favour experience over youth, but having two German drivers at once most likely won't appease Marchionne. He'd still be fighting against the Vettel tide if he did make it in (he loves them, they love him it would appear, he'd be the outsider). McLaren already have their "franchise driver" in Alonso, thus if Rosberg moved there to displace Button, he'd have the same situation as at Merc or Ferrari. Not that such a thing is likely anyway - the noises coming out of McLaren were that Magnussen would return to the race seat once Button retired.

The last possible 'top' destination is Williams, and this would be to assume that one of either Massa or Bottas left. Now, many of us here do not rate Massa, but he seems to have generally improved his performances ever since the halfway point of last season, plus Petrobras could have a little influence over his continued employment with them. A return to the old stomping ground is, at least from an outside perspective, the most likely destination for a Rosberg move outside of Merc, assuming the team offloads Massa (or another team poaches Bottas, however unlikely that may be).

Even if he dropped his salary demands to almost nothing, many of the midfield teams might still be out of the question due to their need for money (Force India, Lotus, Sauber). The last option is the wildcard, Haas. With strong technical support from Ferrari, plus a long lead-in before they hit the track, there is at least a chance they might be somewhat competitive when they debut. But there are of course question marks over their finances, how good their new car will be, and so on. I don't doubt Haas would be interested in recruiting Rosberg if the opportunity arose, assuming they could afford to do so. But it's a big risk for both parties, and thus an extreme long shot.

The conclusion is that Rosberg staying at Mercedes is best for both parties. Rosberg moving would mean either a transition to an equally capable team with him stuck in the same scenario he is now, or moving down a level in competitiveness. It's the same situation Webber was in previously, and he opted to pick the more competitive car with less say in his team than vice versa. I imagine Rosberg will do the same, else the race winning potential for the remainder of his career will take a nosedive.

Biscione wrote:Even if he dropped his salary demands to almost nothing, many of the midfield teams might still be out of the question due to their need for money (Force India, Lotus, Sauber). The last option is the wildcard, Haas. With strong technical support from Ferrari, plus a long lead-in before they hit the track, there is at least a chance they might be somewhat competitive when they debut. But there are of course question marks over their finances, how good their new car will be, and so on. I don't doubt Haas would be interested in recruiting Rosberg if the opportunity arose, assuming they could afford to do so. But it's a big risk for both parties, and thus an extreme long shot.

I'd have so much respect for Rosberg if he joined Haas for next year. It would be just the boost a new team like Haas would need. The drawback of that situation is the same as with Villeneuve and BAR. If it doesn't end up working he'll be seen as a fool to do it, even though there was no guarantee in the first place.

Here's how Rosberg could be 1st at something, he could be the 1st non-whiney well beaten team-mate.

Spectoremg wrote:Here's how Rosberg could be 1st at something, he could be the 1st non-whiney well beaten team-mate.

That would require that he give up on his life's ambition. I don't think that's quite as easy as you make it sound.

Salamander wrote:

Spectoremg wrote:Here's how Rosberg could be 1st at something, he could be the 1st non-whiney well beaten team-mate.

That would require that he give up on his life's ambition. I don't think that's quite as easy as you make it sound.