Ferrim wrote:Sometimes, when you're doing long distance races, your brain seems to "switch off" in such a way that you continue driving (actually, controlling the pad ) without noticing it. All of a sudden five or even ten laps are gone and you can barely remember the previous laps, if at all. At some point there's a stimulus that "awakens" you, the most frequent one being that you make a mistake:
Certainly, that kind of 'experience' is what I was refering to in my previous posts, when talking about driving subconcious / or getting 'into the zone'. So it also sounds like you would benefit, or enjoy reading Overdrive, Ferrim (if you haven't already done so). BTW I'm not a spammer. Nor do I earn any commission for selling the book or anything like that. Its just an area that hugely fascinates me, but racing drivers rarely talk about it much (probably for fear of being branded crazy, by those who do not understand it).
As I said before the book is extermely difficult to read & finish, however it is more than rewarding. For instance I learnt more than a few things from it, which undoubtably improving my driving / racing as a result. These are things like, I've learn how to 'get into the zone' much more frequently than before. But also to accept & cope with the days when I can't get into 'the zone', despite me desperately trying to. Or cope with days where i am unable to find any kind of 'flow' within my driving.
Getting 'into the zone' isn't just something one can switch on & off like a light bulb (again as the book teaches). So there will inevitably be days where you just can't get 'into the zone', no matter what you try.
Thanks to the book, I've also learnt to keep myself 'in the zone' much better than before. Thereby prolonging those "awakening" moments that you referred to. This is a benefit because, when 'in the zone' I seem to be extracting much less energy, mentally. Whislt contiuning to drive at the same level / pace. I have found myself on occassion "awakening" during the middle of a full distance race, with a much fresher mind than I had say 20 laps prior.
Although IMO, 'getting in the zone' is something that is impossible to totally control. Like feelings or emotions. However, I believe, you can influence it to a certain extent. Also from personal experience the 'intensity' of feeling from being in the zone, starts to fade as one gets older. It's a bit like getting drunk / high for the first time as a teenager is always much more intense/fun, then say getting drunk in your 30's / 40's. For me this is, by far, the worst thing about getting old. However in age, one does acquire wisdom (apparently?), so I guess it swings in around abouts. Also, as I think the book states, I wonder whether everybody can achieve the feeling of getting 'in the zone'.
I have also experienced simliar feeling in other fields, like cycling long distances. I can recall once cycle along the Thames, ipod on full volume, then suddely 'awaking' to realise I could barely remember any of the scenery I'd past for the last 10 or so miles. What's more when I look down at my legs pedalling away, it felt like they were almost detached from my brain & I had no control overthem what so ever.
Also I can recall dancing in a nightclub, 'lost' in the music. Awakening only to find, I couldn't remember much about either the last few hours, or the songs I had just danced to. Again, when dancing, I had no idea, how or where the dance moves I was pulling off came from? It was honestly like my body was possessed. Crazy stuff & thanks to Overdrive, I learnt / am still learning a so much more about this hugely fascinating subject.
By the way, Dr Baker I think this topic is still relevant to the Senna film, as Ayrton himself talks about it both in the feature film & also the DVD extras.
DanielPT wrote:You still lack the "Holy shite!" factor and that comes only with the fear and forces applied to the car. Most of virtual racers go flat out at corners knowing that given identical circumstances in real life they don't do that. This is worth several seconds per lap IMHO. Clarkson did that experience a few years back in Laguna Seca and he never really came close of the lap he did on GT4 (at the time).
Whislt I agree with what you are getting at & I would never argue a racing game/sim is as good as the real thing.
I think the Top Gear / Clarkson example, is perhaps slightly misleading. Probably to make good TV.
Firstly IIRC he used a pad (& not a steering wheel) to set his Playstation lap time. Therefore immediately the test becomes uncomparable IMO. Unless he drove the NSX also using a pad, or the playstation using a decent wheel. Also one has to assume he drove GT4 with driving assists like TC, SC etc on. As on a pad, it is virtually impossible to drive without them (in my experience).
Also he drove on what is now an old game, GT4. Modern day racing games has vastly improved as anyone who's compared GT4 with GT5 will know. There is a world of difference between the game physics of the two.
If you are looking to compare games v's real life driving. I think better proof on this comes from the winners of the GT5 Acadamy & how they are doing in their respective motorsport catergoies. I haven't been checking on this, so I don't know what the outcome has been lately. I vaguely recall hearing from Ant Davidson during either FP1 or FP2 for Sliverstone 2011 that one of was doing pretty well. Perhaps someone who knows would be so kind as to inform us what the latest situation on their progress is?
Actually IIRC during that Ant Davidson commentary, he was saying how realistic modern day racing games have now become. Supporting the view others here have expressed that is an ideal training tool, or a great subsutiute for those (like me) who cannot afford to compete in motorsport in real life.
The "Holy shite!" factor, is an interesting point you & the Top Gear test raise. Whislt I agree with what you have said & I can't see how this can be incorporated into a racing game. I have also heard drivers in real life say, things like you can't actively allow thoughts into your mind of what frightens you when racing in real life. Otherwise you won't drive as quickly.
Obviously a little fear is a good thing, as it focuses the mind. But perhaps there is a hidden benefit from playing racing games in that, it helps train an indivdual to drive without any negative fear thoughts what so ever. Because you are, if you like forced to not think about fear, when playing the racing games in the comfort of your living room.
So that when you get out onto the track for the first time, because you have practiced & perfected most aspects of your driving in a safe enviroment. Of course not all aspects of driving can be learnt from driving sims however.
Consequently when one is out on track for the first time, he/she is able to just concentrate on overcoming the "holy shite" factor, much more quickly & effectively than someone in an identical situation, who hadn't played any racing sims at all.
I guess its a bit like a kid, learning to ride a bike on stablisers. They can learn the basic princples well enough. However take away the stablisers, & there will be new difficulties to overcome. But the kid who's learnt to ride a bike already with stablisers, will overcome those new difficulties quicker than a kid who hasn't.
, hope I haven't come off as a loud bragging American (wasn't my intent) but wanted to show how much I like the book and why. I'm curious to see if any other racers on the board feel the same.
). So I think a normal headed person who have gritted his teeth and pitted. But then again Gilles had the favor of Enzo himself, and could probably have gotten away with ignoring the order.......
) without noticing it. All of a sudden five or even ten laps are gone and you can barely remember the previous laps, if at all. At some point there's a stimulus that "awakens" you, the most frequent one being that you make a mistake: in these cases it may very well happen that you manage to recover the car and remain on the track, indicating a high degree of concentration -but you are not really noticing it. Even more interesting is the fact that, if you go to check what kind of lap times you were doing during these "unconscious laps", they usually are a) quite fast and b) pretty consistent, with few tenths between one lap and the next.
