F1WRCR 1953 season - Post-season prize money up!

[FantometteBR]

Maserati might apply also Mike Hawthorn to a possible part-time deal if he is still available

Mike Hawthorn is a contracted Bentley driver, and as such is not available for any races to drive for any other team. Sorry.

Ah ok... no prob

[Shadaza]

Just to clarify from the end of the 1952 thread:

Team Ultimates' drivers are:

Edgar Barth (For the Ultimate car)
Troy Ruttman (Ferrari America)
Harry Schell (Ferrari America)
and Toulo de Graffenried (Ferrari America, via Ferrari)

[TomWazzleshaw]

Building a chassis for your own use is the same as building one for a customer, only that customers pay you for the chassis. In your case, it's £25 000 to build one chassis.

Thanks for the info. I seem to have finally wrapped my head around this system. And it looks very good!

With that, I announce that Aston chassis are for sale for 50k. The price is negotiable.

50 Grand? The hell are you doing man!? You'll never get a customer at that price. Which is bad news for me because I gotta flog off these Jaguar engines somehow

Surely you can lower the price to between 30k and 35k, right?

[Nuppiz]

F. H. Warden Competition would like to buy a single Bentley Speed 3 chassis and one Jaguar JFE-2 engine. That should cost £45,000, leaving us with a healthy £55,000 for in-season expenses.

We're also interested in the services of Ken Wharton again, contrary to what was stated at the end of 1952.

[pi314159]

The works O.S.C.A. will be driven by Felice Bonetto.

[pycku]

Is it time to officially announce drivers?

If so: Leader would like to recruit Giovani Bracco.

As for Balkan Eagle: are Johhny Claes, Porfirio Rubirosa, Aldo Gordini and Lance Macklin available? If any of these is - the Eagles are hiring him (in that order of preference). If there is still any available seat (we are using 3 cars) - we will make another announcement.

[roblo97]

Is it time to officially announce drivers?

If so: Leader would like to recruit Giovani Bracco.

As for Balkan Eagle: are Johhny Claes, Porfirio Rubirosa, Aldo Gordini and Lance Macklin available? If any of these is - the Eagles are hiring him (in that order of preference). If there is still any available seat (we are using 3 cars) - we will make another announcement.

If that may be the case, then my team would like Fangio then if he's available, if not I would like Duncan Hamilton please

[Nessafox]

Building a chassis for your own use is the same as building one for a customer, only that customers pay you for the chassis. In your case, it's £25 000 to build one chassis.

Thanks for the info. I seem to have finally wrapped my head around this system. And it looks very good!

With that, I announce that Aston chassis are for sale for 50k. The price is negotiable.

50 Grand? The hell are you doing man!? You'll never get a customer at that price. Which is bad news for me because I gotta flog off these Jaguar engines somehow

Surely you can lower the price to between 30k and 35k, right?

That's more than twice the price of a new Ferrari? You really don't want to sell any cars, do you? i advise you to use the same prices as your partner in crime, Jaguar, uses, 25K for a single chassis, and 20K if combined with a Jaguar-engine (which i already purchased) (that would make 40K for the full JAMR package, still more expensive than a Bentley)

[Aerospeed]

Whoa, whoa, sorry guys...

35k then?

[takagi_for_the_win]

tommykl, did you get my customer entry?

[Nessafox]

Whoa, whoa, sorry guys...

35k then?

That's still 15K more than a Bentley, that's hardly convincing... My last offer: 50K for a full Aston-Jaguar package (which would mean 25K for the Aston, as i already payed for the Jaguar part)

Tommykl, can i transfer money over to next season? Because i got lots of it now, but it might be different next year.

[tommykl]

F. H. Warden Competition would like to buy a single Bentley Speed 3 chassis and one Jaguar JFE-2 engine. That should cost £45,000, leaving us with a healthy £55,000 for in-season expenses.

We're also interested in the services of Ken Wharton again, contrary to what was stated at the end of 1952.

All you need know is to state which Jaguar engine you'll take: number 6 or number 9?

Is it time to officially announce drivers?

If so: Leader would like to recruit Giovani Bracco.

As for Balkan Eagle: are Johhny Claes, Porfirio Rubirosa, Aldo Gordini and Lance Macklin available? If any of these is - the Eagles are hiring him (in that order of preference). If there is still any available seat (we are using 3 cars) - we will make another announcement.

It's not time yet, but you can state plans to do so in order to avoid future confusion. In this case, both Giovanni Bracco and Porfirio Rubirosa have both been kept by Ambrosiana, Johnny Claes' availability depends on The Lukas, since he controls Claes himself, Aldo Gordini is available, though his links to ART will mean that he'll need to be released for a couple of races in case he's needed over there, and Lance Macklin also depends on Claes.

If that may be the case, then my team would like Fangio then if he's available, if not I would like Duncan Hamilton please

Ferrari already signed Fangio ages ago But Duncan Hamilton is free, as far as I can tell.

tommykl, did you get my customer entry?

I did, in fact it's the first one I counted

Whoa, whoa, sorry guys...

35k then?

That's still 15K more than a Bentley, that's hardly convincing... My last offer: 50K for a full Aston-Jaguar package (which would mean 25K for the Aston, as i already payed for the Jaguar part)

Tommykl, can i transfer money over to next season? Because i got lots of it now, but it might be different next year.

If I may give some advice regarding this situation:
a) £50 000 is very expensive for a chassis. I don't think any other constructor is selling their stuff at twice the price it was built.
b) £35 000 is a much better figure. The only other top-quality chassis on sale is the Alfa Romeo, which is sold at £40 000 (although it's down to £35 000 per car if two of them are bought).
c) The "new Ferrari" This was talking about is actually the 550, which is a cheap and lower quality version of the 555, which isn't available for sale.
d) The Bentley is cheaper because a) it's lower quality and b) for some reason, it's sold at the price it was built.
e) Asking the full package for £40 000 would be daft, because that's the cost of building one of these packages.
f) All this considered, I think that selling the Aston for £35 000 would work, with the price lowered to £30 000 with the purchase of a Jaguar engine.

And This, any money remaining at the end of the season is kept for the next, along with prize money awarded at the end of each race, end-of-season prize money and, most importantly, any chassis and engines you already had before, although there will be ageing involved

[RonDenisDeletraz]

This has just occurred to me, I was planning to take Van der Lof but is he even still available?

[tommykl]

This has just occurred to me, I was planning to take Van der Lof but is he even still available?

Bentley and ENB were going after him at the end of 1952, but they seem to have stopped chasing, so he's all yours, it looks like.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Whoa, whoa, sorry guys...

35k then?

That's still 15K more than a Bentley, that's hardly convincing... My last offer: 50K for a full Aston-Jaguar package (which would mean 25K for the Aston, as i already payed for the Jaguar part)

It would mean 30K for the Aston chassis, not 25k. The Jaguar engine costs 20k when bought with an Aston chassis.

EDIT: Have Jaguar JFE-2 10 and 11 been built yet, as I requested earlier?

[tommykl]

Whoa, whoa, sorry guys...

35k then?

That's still 15K more than a Bentley, that's hardly convincing... My last offer: 50K for a full Aston-Jaguar package (which would mean 25K for the Aston, as i already payed for the Jaguar part)

It would mean 30K for the Aston chassis, not 25k. The Jaguar engine costs 20k when bought with an Aston chassis.

EDIT: Have Jaguar JFE-2 10 and 11 been built yet, as I requested earlier?

Sorry, I seem to have missed that post

Anyway, they have now

[WaffleCat]

Henry Reatherson re-enters Formula One for the 1953 season,but instead of continuing with the All-Ireland Motorsport name,he's dropped the name,calling his team Reatherson Racing Developments instead.

As for Chassis and Engine,Reatherson will buy one Bentley Speed 3 chassis,preferably number 3, and Jaguar JFE Engine 10.

[tommykl]

Henry Reatherson re-enters Formula One for the 1953 season,but instead of continuing with the All-Ireland Motorsport name,he's dropped the name,calling his team Reatherson Racing Developments instead.

As for Chassis and Engine,Reatherson will buy one Bentley Speed 3 chassis,preferably number 3, and Jaguar JFE Engine 10.

No problem. Total budget is £100 000, and you're left with £55 000 for the season. However, I believe chassis 3 is reserved for the main team (although they can easily build a new one for Reatherson), and the Jaguar engine is only available to rent, with only engines 6 and 9 available for sale

[TomWazzleshaw]

Henry Reatherson re-enters Formula One for the 1953 season,but instead of continuing with the All-Ireland Motorsport name,he's dropped the name,calling his team Reatherson Racing Developments instead.

As for Chassis and Engine,Reatherson will buy one Bentley Speed 3 chassis,preferably number 3, and Jaguar JFE Engine 10.

No problem. Total budget is £100 000, and you're left with £55 000 for the season. However, I believe chassis 3 is reserved for the main team (although they can easily build a new one for Reatherson), and the Jaguar engine is only available to rent, with only engines 6 and 9 available for sale

Indeed. 10 and 11 are mostly for one-off entries for when they're needed. When they're not being used however, they'll form part of Jaguar's spare engine program, where privateer teams can swap engines for a small fee to cover the overhaul should they ever get significant damage. Speaking of which, can we add Jaguar engine 12 as well to that spare engine program? If demand is great enough, this engine will also be available for sale.

[WaffleCat]

Henry Reatherson re-enters Formula One for the 1953 season,but instead of continuing with the All-Ireland Motorsport name,he's dropped the name,calling his team Reatherson Racing Developments instead.

As for Chassis and Engine,Reatherson will buy one Bentley Speed 3 chassis,preferably number 3, and Jaguar JFE Engine 10.

No problem. Total budget is £100 000, and you're left with £55 000 for the season. However, I believe chassis 3 is reserved for the main team (although they can easily build a new one for Reatherson), and the Jaguar engine is only available to rent, with only engines 6 and 9 available for sale

Indeed. 10 and 11 are mostly for one-off entries for when they're needed. When they're not being used however, they'll form part of Jaguar's spare engine program, where privateer teams can swap engines for a small fee to cover the overhaul should they ever get significant damage. Speaking of which, can we add Jaguar engine 12 as well to that spare engine program? If demand is great enough, this engine will also be available for sale.

Okay then,Reatherson will buy engine 6 and wait on the availability of the Speed 3 chassis. If Bentley are not willing to sell their Speed 3 chassis,Reatherson will buy the 53C chassis instead.

[tommykl]

No problem. Total budget is £100 000, and you're left with £55 000 for the season. However, I believe chassis 3 is reserved for the main team (although they can easily build a new one for Reatherson), and the Jaguar engine is only available to rent, with only engines 6 and 9 available for sale

Indeed. 10 and 11 are mostly for one-off entries for when they're needed. When they're not being used however, they'll form part of Jaguar's spare engine program, where privateer teams can swap engines for a small fee to cover the overhaul should they ever get significant damage. Speaking of which, can we add Jaguar engine 12 as well to that spare engine program? If demand is great enough, this engine will also be available for sale.

Okay then,Reatherson will buy engine 6 and wait on the availability of the Speed 3 chassis. If Bentley are not willing to sell their Speed 3 chassis,Reatherson will buy the 53C chassis instead.

You can buy a Speed 3 chassis without asking, the problem is that you're specifically asking for chassis 3, when they can simply build chassis 7 without you needing to even ask

[Londoner]

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

[tommykl]

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

It would, depending on how many races and cars you're entering, but if it's the one car, you shouldn't have a problem. I'd suggest you wait for the Aston though, because there's still controversy as to what price it should be

[TomWazzleshaw]

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

It would, depending on how many races and cars you're entering, but if it's the one car, you shouldn't have a problem. I'd suggest you wait for the Aston though, because there's still controversy as to what price it should be

I believe the committee of one agreed at 35k without a Jaguar engine, and 30k with a Jaguar engine. The committee being me with no actual authority whatsoever of course.

[tommykl]

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

It would, depending on how many races and cars you're entering, but if it's the one car, you shouldn't have a problem. I'd suggest you wait for the Aston though, because there's still controversy as to what price it should be

I believe the committee of one agreed at 35k without a Jaguar engine, and 30k with a Jaguar engine. The committee being me with no actual authority whatsoever of course.

I'll wait for confirmation from Jeremy and grudging acceptance from This before the price is set

[pycku]

Just to remind that Leader is still offering their chassis at an attractive price of just below 20 000 pounds. If there are interested, we could instantly build the desired amount of chassis.

[pasta_maldonado]

Henry Reatherson re-enters Formula One for the 1953 season,but instead of continuing with the All-Ireland Motorsport name,he's dropped the name,calling his team Reatherson Racing Developments instead.

As for Chassis and Engine,Reatherson will buy one Bentley Speed 3 chassis,preferably number 3, and Jaguar JFE Engine 10.

As tommy said, chassis number 3 is reserved for the use of the factory team, but we will build you a brand new chassis! Welcome to the Bentley family.

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

Bentley will gladly sell you a 163-1 engine.

[Aerospeed]

Hampshire Racing Alliance would like to enquire as to a purchase of an Aston chassis, and a Bentley 163-1 engine. That should be within the budget for a privateer, I believe.

35k for the chassis and it's yours.

As for buying with a Jaguar engine, 50k for the whole package would be good. (That's 30k to Aston and 20k to Jaguar, correct?)

[Shadaza]

I think it is interesting that tommykl thinks selling a car at cost price is "daft".

What you get for the amazing cost of £0 is someone advertising your car, an extra pair of hands in the manufacture championship and less money going to rivals. Sure you don't recoup any money in the design cost, but considering the dog eat dog world, even making any sale at all must be seen as an advantage. If I had money to spare I would be offering my cars at rates LESS than cost price, as at this early stage of the economy, achieving large market share is more optimal than profit making.

The main reason I am offering my car for rental is, as a lesser known manufacturer, I can't hope to make a real sale.


Before you guys argue prices, let me remind you of by far the most cost effective method of racing(that is best bang for buck guys!)and that is my Team Ultimate Rental plan.

Team Ultimate Rental Policy

Team Ultimate are prepared to allow budding customer teams the most affordable access to Formula 1! The second Ultimate car, the 002b can be entered into an European round for as little as £500!

If you wish to enter a full race ready package of Chassis, tires and engine, for just £1500 you can enter a full spec Ultimate-OSCA package.

Of course, entering motorsport has it's risks, to access the equipment, a £22,000 deposit must be made on the chassis and a further £20,000 if an engine is also purchased. On the completion of a weekend, should the car remain undamaged, the deposit shall be returned.

Should for whatever reason, Team Ultimate withdraw the 002b then your deposit and entry fee will be returned, along with free entry to another European round of your choice. Failing that, £1000 of compensation will be paid.

Let me remind you guys that for the 8 European rounds, with the Chassis option a team can compete in all of them for as little as £500 a round (that is a super low £4000!!!) We even pay travel and storage cost. We have a break it you buy it clause that may sound steep, but should you break any other teams chassis you would have to buy another or spend ludicrous amount of money on repairs, ergo my system is still the cheapest!

[tommykl]

Let me remind you guys that for the 8 European rounds, with the Chassis option a team can compete in all of them for as little as £500 a round (that is a super low £4000!!!) We even pay travel and storage cost. We have a break it you buy it clause that may sound steep, but should you break any other teams chassis you would have to buy another or spend ludicrous amount of money on repairs, ergo my system is still the cheapest!

Of course, the entrants still have to pay for entries

I suggest this:
-£2 000 to enter one car.
-£500 are returned automatically if the driver makes qualifying proper.
-A further £500 are returned automatically if the driver makes the race.
-A further £10 are returned automatically for every percent of the race that is covered by the driver.
-All the money that isn't returned is placed in a pot, along with a randomly pre-determined sum provided by the race organisers and sponsors.
-Half of the pot is redistributed according to finishing position as prize money.
-The other half goes into a larger pot which is redistributed at the end of each season.

In this case, making the start and finishing on the lead lap means you get your money back on the entry. Failure to pre-qualify means you lose the full £2 000, although even the lowest-ranked entrant at the end of the year still gets a small portion of the pot.

How does this sound?

[Shadaza]

Let me remind you guys that for the 8 European rounds, with the Chassis option a team can compete in all of them for as little as £500 a round (that is a super low £4000!!!) We even pay travel and storage cost. We have a break it you buy it clause that may sound steep, but should you break any other teams chassis you would have to buy another or spend ludicrous amount of money on repairs, ergo my system is still the cheapest!

Of course, the entrants still have to pay for entries

I suggest this:
-£2 000 to enter one car.
-£500 are returned automatically if the driver makes qualifying proper.
-A further £500 are returned automatically if the driver makes the race.
-A further £10 are returned automatically for every percent of the race that is covered by the driver.
-All the money that isn't returned is placed in a pot, along with a randomly pre-determined sum provided by the race organisers and sponsors.
-Half of the pot is redistributed according to finishing position as prize money.
-The other half goes into a larger pot which is redistributed at the end of each season.

In this case, making the start and finishing on the lead lap means you get your money back on the entry. Failure to pre-qualify means you lose the full £2 000, although even the lowest-ranked entrant at the end of the year still gets a small portion of the pot.

How does this sound?

Of course there is the entrance fee of the events to consider on top of that, but my scheme still is the cheapest, unless competitors wish to enter on foot!
I do like the prize money/cost system you have Tommy. We are all fighting for the vague, "randomly pre-determined sum provided by the race organisers and sponsors." plus sales for money. It sound tricky to manage much profit.

[pycku]

i accept that entrance fee system and approve it

[Nessafox]

It would, depending on how many races and cars you're entering, but if it's the one car, you shouldn't have a problem. I'd suggest you wait for the Aston though, because there's still controversy as to what price it should be

I believe the committee of one agreed at 35k without a Jaguar engine, and 30k with a Jaguar engine. The committee being me with no actual authority whatsoever of course.

I'll wait for confirmation from Jeremy and grudging acceptance from This before the price is set

i'll pay the full 50K if you pay for the travel costs to Great-Britain for the Aston-Jaguar customer car (i'm not just going to agree a customer deal without any sort of unfair advantage. I have to let it be known that ENB is the most prestigious customer team in the whole paddock.) Remember that Bentley already agreed on giving me an unfair advantage (running one of my star drivers) and Maserati did something similar (not sacking one of my rubbish drivers) I will let manufacturers fight for ENB's services, not otherwise!

[Aerospeed]

50k it is.

[Nuppiz]

Well, since the Jag engine number 6 has already been sold, we'll take the #9 unit. Perhaps by being more recent it's also slighly more reliable as the factory has more experience in building them than during the first few builds.

Also the entry fee system looks good.

[Nessafox]

50k it is.

Remember that i still demand an unfair advantage to other customer teams!

[tommykl]

Alright, so we've already got a fair number of entries, so I'm going to open up entries for individual races. You may enter any race at any time, using the following format:

Team name
DRIVER - chassis model (including number), engine model (including number)

You do not have to use this format, but all this information is needed. You do not have to provide all of it at the same time, but all of it must be stated at some point.

Before every race weekend, I'll post any loose ends that may need to be tied up. Of course, new constructors or customer teams may enter at any time.

Also, Scuderia Ambrosiana is the only current entrant without a chassis.

[Klon]

Copypasta this one for every race (I dunno how long chassis and engine will last so I'll just amend that whenever it is needed)

Mercedes-Benz Team Europe
Eric Brandon - Mercedes WM-1 chassis 4, Mercedes UM153 engine 13

and for seperate races

# French Grand Prix
Lucien Vincent - Mercedes WM-1 chassis 3, Mercedes UM153 engine 12

# British Grand Prix
Tommy Wisdom - Mercedes WM-1 chassis 3, Mercedes UM153 engine 12

# German Grand Prix
Helmut Niedermayr - Mercedes WM-1 chassis 3, Mercedes UM153 engine 12

[pycku]

Leader would like to ask Lukas if Johnny Claes is available? If yes - we would like to hire him full season.

If the answer is no, we would like to hire Aldo Gordini.

As we have only one chassis and engine, we won't point out any numbers (is it necessary?)


As for Balkan Eagle - we will make another announcement later on.

[tommykl]

Leader would like to ask Lukas if Johnny Claes is available? If yes - we would like to hire him full season.

If the answer is no, we would like to hire Aldo Gordini.

As we have only one chassis and engine, we won't point out any numbers (is it necessary?)


As for Balkan Eagle - we will make another announcement later on.

The chassis and engine numbers aren't necessary in this case, though I'll add them in anyway.

Claes is still unknown. I'll add him in, but if The Lukas decides to come back again, Gordini will take over the seat.