Ponderbox

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
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mario
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

CoopsII wrote:
mario wrote:Given that both he and his team mate have overridden orders from the team on multiple occasions, there is a strong chance that Webber would ignore any orders from the team and refuse to yield his position.

We just need him to now consistently get into a position where that could be a possibility.

As things stand, the chances of that happening are not particularly high - Vettel has generally been the stronger of the two drivers in qualifying and therefore tends to start ahead of Webber, not to mention the fact that he is normally quicker off the line than Webber too. That, in turn, usually puts Vettel in a better position to choose when to pit if they are both on the same strategy (he can react on the next lap if Webber tries to undercut him, or alternatively can force a pitstop first if he is aware of a gap in the traffic). OK, Interlagos is currently one of Webber's slightly stronger tracks and, in mixed conditions, the grid can be jumbled up a bit (as 2012 showed), so perhaps Webber could find himself ahead of Vettel in that situation - I wouldn't bet heavily on it though.
The other question that remains is who would be in a position to threaten Vettel? Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton, in that order, are Vettel's closest challengers, but Kimi, the closest of that trio, is 38 points back and the E21 doesn't have the widest operating window, it seems, leading to occasional poor patches for him. Alonso is only one point further back, but Ferrari are fading at the moment and it looks like Alonso can no longer sustain the form he showed in 2012, and although Mercedes seem to be beginning to become more of a threat, Hamilton is the furthest behind (48 points) and there are still questions over how well they can manage their tyres (Rosberg, with 84 points, may be quick enough to interfere with the title battle but is realistically too far back, thanks to mechanical failures, to realistically pose a threat right now).
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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CoopsII
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by CoopsII »

I wonder if Webber has lost his motivation? He sometimes looks like a guy who cannot wait for the season to end. I hope he can get it together, sod Vettel, even the most pro-Webber fan would have to accept he's beaten him, but I want him to go out with a bang, not a whimper. Only less cliche'd :(
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mario
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

CoopsII wrote:I wonder if Webber has lost his motivation? He sometimes looks like a guy who cannot wait for the season to end. I hope he can get it together, sod Vettel, even the most pro-Webber fan would have to accept he's beaten him, but I want him to go out with a bang, not a whimper. Only less cliche'd :(

I would not be surprised if that was the case - he has sounded increasingly fed up with the way that the sport is moving in recent years, both in terms of the way that the drivers have to look after the cars (tyre wear now and the prospect of fuel management from 2014 onwards) and the drivers coming through the ranks (he has spoken out about how he feels the quality of the driver pool in the lower ranked teams and in the junior series has been dropping, citing Frijns as an example of a talented driver who cannot find a drive because he doesn't have the money to buy a seat). Yes, it is true that, to a certain extent, his best chances have come and gone in F1 (and he must know that), but I think it is also a case of a driver who is no longer in love with the sport that he once aspired to.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Gerudo Dragon »

Why does Indy Lights have such low grid numbers?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Ataxia »

Dark77 wrote:Why does Indy Lights have such low grid numbers?


Because they're LIGHT on competitors!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by WeirdKerr »

Ataxia wrote:
Dark77 wrote:Why does Indy Lights have such low grid numbers?


Because they're LIGHT on competitors!


BOOM BOOM!!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by shinji »

WeirdKerr wrote:
Ataxia wrote:
Dark77 wrote:Why does Indy Lights have such low grid numbers?


Because they're LIGHT on competitors!


BOOM BOOM!!


BOOM BOOM! I WANT YOU IN MY ROOM!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Meatwad »

shinji wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:BOOM BOOM!!


BOOM BOOM! I WANT YOU IN MY ROOM!


BOOM BOOM BOOM! LET ME HEAR YOU SAY WAY OH!

I don't like that song but I just had to do that.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dinizintheoven »

Boom, boom, boom, boom
I'm gonna shoot you right down
Right off your feet
Take you home with me
Put you in my house (and so on)

Go on, get more "boom"s in than Jon Lee Hooker, I dare you. And anyone who quotes "The German Gun" by Private S. Baldrick is cheating.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Jocke1 »

Image
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by roblo97 »

Jocke1 wrote:Image

Awesome Jocke :lol:
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shinji wrote:
Mexicola wrote: I'd rather listen to a dog lick its balls. Each to their own, I guess.

Does listening to a dog licking its balls get you excited?

That's between me and my internet service provider.

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by go_Rubens »

mario wrote:
CoopsII wrote:I wonder if Webber has lost his motivation? He sometimes looks like a guy who cannot wait for the season to end. I hope he can get it together, sod Vettel, even the most pro-Webber fan would have to accept he's beaten him, but I want him to go out with a bang, not a whimper. Only less cliche'd :(

I would not be surprised if that was the case - he has sounded increasingly fed up with the way that the sport is moving in recent years, both in terms of the way that the drivers have to look after the cars (tyre wear now and the prospect of fuel management from 2014 onwards) and the drivers coming through the ranks (he has spoken out about how he feels the quality of the driver pool in the lower ranked teams and in the junior series has been dropping, citing Frijns as an example of a talented driver who cannot find a drive because he doesn't have the money to buy a seat). Yes, it is true that, to a certain extent, his best chances have come and gone in F1 (and he must know that), but I think it is also a case of a driver who is no longer in love with the sport that he once aspired to.


I've been fed up about the direction of the sport for a few years. Finally a driver, in this case Webber, is on my side.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

ZSOLT

*Runs away and hides*
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dinizintheoven »

Image

...and somewhere under the pile of tropical fruit, a body was found...
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

dinizintheoven wrote:Image

...and somewhere under the pile of tropical fruit, a body was found...

Image
Mmmmmmmmmmm, papaya...

ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dinizintheoven »

Mr. Simpson, we appreciate your help, but... unfortunately, it's too late. An Irish teenager lies on a mortuary slab and the post-mortem isn't revealing anything. We'll have to record a verdict of death by misadventure. Because there is no adventure more "mis" than what he just did...
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

dinizintheoven wrote:Mr. Simpson, we appreciate your help, but... unfortunately, it's too late. An Irish teenager lies on a mortuary slab and the post-mortem isn't revealing anything. We'll have to record a verdict of death by misadventure. Because there is no adventure more "mis" than what he just did...

Homer Simpson wrote:But the papayas were going spare, weren't they? I helped rescue the body from the fruity rubble, didn't I?
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Gerudo Dragon »

Not trying to provoke anything, but has anyone else just given up on F1?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Jocke1 »

Dark77 wrote:has anyone else just given up on F1?

Not Luca Badoer. He won't ever give up.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

Jocke1 wrote:
Dark77 wrote:has anyone else just given up on F1?

Not Luca Badoer. He won't ever give up.

Nor HWNSNBM.
Never gonna give F1 up
Never gonna let F1 down
Never gonna run around and desert F1
Never gonna make F1 cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt F1
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Ataxia »

No more Singapore Sling, it seems...YAY!

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by AxelP800 »

Ataxia wrote:No more Singapore Sling, it seems...YAY!

Twitter Link


A very great news :D . Finally after 5 years. The laptimes should be around 4-5 seconds quicker now
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mario
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

AxelP800 wrote:
Ataxia wrote:No more Singapore Sling, it seems...YAY!

Twitter Link


A very great news :D . Finally after 5 years. The laptimes should be around 4-5 seconds quicker now

I wouldn't say that it is going to be quite that dramatic a change - from what I can tell, the only change to that corner is that they are removing the chicane and converting it into a straightforward left hand corner. I'd wager that the lap time change is probably going to be closer to about a tenth of your proposal - though it does create an interesting question over what might be done if a car crashes at that corner (would the changes make it easier or harder to recover a car?).
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by WeirdKerr »

Watching the 1998 Belgian GP the other night on Skysports F1 made me think If the 1st lap crash happened today Crazy Dave would of got a 1 race ban for that and the incident with Schumacher later in the race would of resulted in a 2 race ban....
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mario
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

WeirdKerr wrote:Watching the 1998 Belgian GP the other night on Skysports F1 made me think If the 1st lap crash happened today Crazy Dave would of got a 1 race ban for that and the incident with Schumacher later in the race would of resulted in a 2 race ban....

I am not entirely sure that he would get a ban for that these days given the conditions in which that accident occurred (plus the fact that McLaren, being one of the larger teams, might be able to persuade the FIA to go for a slightly more lenient punishment). The move later in the race, though, probably would have earned him a temporary ban - even Coulthard admits these days that he shouldn't have lifted and probably did deserve a harsher punishment.

A repeat of the first lap crash would raise bigger problems than a penalty though - there would be the larger issue that, with spare cars now no longer available, there would be barely enough cars left for a restarted race. On top of that, with the new points system going down to 10th place, points would be guaranteed for those making it far enough to be classified - the only catch being that a crash of that nature would probably take out more midfield and tail end cars than leading cars, so it might not necessarily be to the benefit of outfits like Marussia or Caterham.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by andrew2209 »

mario wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Watching the 1998 Belgian GP the other night on Skysports F1 made me think If the 1st lap crash happened today Crazy Dave would of got a 1 race ban for that and the incident with Schumacher later in the race would of resulted in a 2 race ban....

I am not entirely sure that he would get a ban for that these days given the conditions in which that accident occurred (plus the fact that McLaren, being one of the larger teams, might be able to persuade the FIA to go for a slightly more lenient punishment). The move later in the race, though, probably would have earned him a temporary ban - even Coulthard admits these days that he shouldn't have lifted and probably did deserve a harsher punishment.

A repeat of the first lap crash would raise bigger problems than a penalty though - there would be the larger issue that, with spare cars now no longer available, there would be barely enough cars left for a restarted race. On top of that, with the new points system going down to 10th place, points would be guaranteed for those making it far enough to be classified - the only catch being that a crash of that nature would probably take out more midfield and tail end cars than leading cars, so it might not necessarily be to the benefit of outfits like Marussia or Caterham.

Coulthard wouldn't have ended up with a one-race ban for the first accident, it was driver error.

If the accident occured today, I'd say the backmarkers would be most likely to come out unscathed, as they could either see what was happening ahead, and slow down, or hear their race engineer frantically tell them to stop over the radio. Also, the incident was made worse by the likes of Nakano and Rosset ploughing into the wreckage (seriously, what was Rosset up to?). Last placed driver Tuero escaped the melee by being far enough back to avoid it.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

andrew2209 wrote:Last placed driver Tuero escaped the melee by being far enough back to avoid it.


Lol, classic Tuero.

Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have been accepted years ago as just a ballsy bit of overtaking and not penalised.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by FullMetalJack »

watka wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:Last placed driver Tuero escaped the melee by being far enough back to avoid it.


Lol, classic Tuero.

Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have been accepted years ago as just a ballsy bit of overtaking and not penalised.


Montoya in 2002 possibly? It was a ridiculous penalty though.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by WeirdKerr »

watka wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:Last placed driver Tuero escaped the melee by being far enough back to avoid it.


Lol, classic Tuero.

Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have seen him in the gravel trap


Fixed
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

watka wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:Last placed driver Tuero escaped the melee by being far enough back to avoid it.


Lol, classic Tuero.

Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have been accepted years ago as just a ballsy bit of overtaking and not penalised.


By my reckoning, about 2002; Montoya's DTP in Malaysia being for "causing an avoidable accident." These days, those 3 words pop up seemingly at every race.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by good_Ralf »

watka wrote:Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have been accepted years ago as just a ballsy bit of overtaking and not penalised.


2002 because that was when the 10-place grid penalty, the drive-through penalty and the time penalties added to race results etc. were introduced.

According to the 2002 season review the stupid DTP given to Montoya for clashing with Schumi in Malaysia was the first of its kind in F1 ever.

Before the next race in Brazil, the FIA introduced the 10-place grid penalty for anyone who caused a dangerous incident. Felipe Massa of course took out PDLR at Monza and got the first penalty, so to avoid the penalty Sauber in effect suspended Massa and gave Heinz Beanz Frentzen a one-off appearance.

Also I was looking at the results for the 2002 Hungary race and Mika Salo had a 25s time penalty, which I think was new back then as well.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

good_Ralf wrote:2002 because that was when the 10-place grid penalty, the drive-through penalty and the time penalties added to race results etc. were introduced.

According to the 2002 season review the stupid DTP given to Montoya for clashing with Schumi in Malaysia was the first of its kind in F1 ever.

Before the next race in Brazil, the FIA introduced the 10-place grid penalty for anyone who caused a dangerous incident. Felipe Massa of course took out PDLR at Monza and got the first penalty, so to avoid the penalty Sauber in effect suspended Massa and gave Heinz Beanz Frentzen a one-off appearance.

Also I was looking at the results for the 2002 Hungary race and Mika Salo had a 25s time penalty, which I think was new back then as well.


Looks like the one, I was thinking that the term "causing an avoidable incident" certainly hadn't been around forever, although I suspected that it would be a bit more recent than 2002.


FullMetalJack wrote:Anyway, can anyone pinpoint what season all this penalty malarkey really kicked off? As above, you never used to see penalties handed out for crashes back in the 90s and early 00s, I was usually penalty enough that those involved had a broken wing or other such damage. It seems now that teams are constantly looking to appeal for penalties against other drivers; Grosjean's pass in Hungary would have seen him in the gravel trap.


True! Touché!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by tommykl »

Those penalties were indeed introduced in 2002, but I think the over abundance of those penalties started around 2008. I can't recall drive throughs and grid penalties being handed out like cupcakes before then (apart from engine and gearbox changes).
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Anybody have any idea how competitive the Toyota TF110 would have been?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Anybody have any idea how competitive the Toyota TF110 would have been?


Fast enough to mean that Glock would probably be sitting in a Lotus race seat (or at least a lower midfield team) this year.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by go_Rubens »

watka wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Anybody have any idea how competitive the Toyota TF110 would have been?


Fast enough to mean that Glock would probably be sitting in a Lotus race seat (or at least a lower midfield team) this year.


Agreed. I feel he lost motivation at Virgin/Marussia. He could have done something.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Jocke1 »

After having watched the thursday drivers press conference, I am now even more convinced that Bianchi and Pic's voices sound just like a pair of balllet dancers...
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Jocke1 »

If Neil Horan (The Grand Prix Priest):

Image
Image


had a child with the protesting woman from the Belgian GP this Sunday:

Image
Image


what would it look like?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Hound55 »

At this point, I think it would have been better for Sauber if they had Van der Garde instead of Gutierrez. It seems like he has been more impressive with the same amount of brain fade.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by good_Ralf »

Hound55 wrote:At this point, I think it would have been better for Sauber if they had Van der Garde instead of Gutierrez. It seems like he has been more impressive with the same amount of brain fade.


But how much sponsorship money would he have brought? Sauber obviously hired Gutierrez because of the Mexican money he bought, so if they took GVDG onboard they would have arguably better talent but not as much money, which as we know is crucial to their survival at the moment.
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