East Londoner wrote:Just saw the Taki Inoue picture. Bloody hell, he must've hit the tractor at immense speed to destroy the roll hoop.
It's certainly a concern to see a part that is normally physically bonded to the chassis being torn away like that - at least, as others are suggesting, the car might have gone in backwards, which would have hopefully offered Jules a little bit more protection.
At least the news reports from L'Equipe make it sound as if he is at least in a stable condition now, suggesting that he is at least OK for the short term - let us hope that he can make a full recovery in the longer term, though that could well be a slow and steady process.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning: "The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
I watched the race 'as live' when I got up earlier, so didn't see the accident until around 4 hours ago. Talk about putting a downer on the rest of the day.
I don't think there's much that anyone could have done about that, bar the SC being called straight away when Sutil went off maybe.
I hope the positive reports coming out now are correct, but I am very wary as I seem to remember similar things happening on that day at Imola. And let's not forget poor Ronnie Peterson - there's a long way to go yet.
Pointrox wrote:L'Equipe reports that Jules' surgery was finished and he breathes without the ventilator.
I feared for the worst, but given the fact that Bianchi breathes on his own, he will probably live as the most vital parts of his brain seem to be OK. Whether he will return at all or even be good as he has been is doubtful though.
went wrote:The most simple solution is: if you need to bring out the crane, make the SC escort it.
I agree. In the 2003 season, we had a similar situation in the Brazilian GP. I don't remember what driver was, but he almost hit the crane in that occasion.
went wrote:The most simple solution is: if you need to bring out the crane, make the SC escort it.
I agree. In the 2003 season, we had a similar situation in the Brazilian GP. I don't remember what driver was, but he almost hit the crane in that occasion.
When the marshalls came out to clear the wrecks of Pizzonia and Montoya, Michael Schumacher slid of the track. Replays show the marshalls running over the barrier just before impact.
Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden
Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
went wrote:The most simple solution is: if you need to bring out the crane, make the SC escort it.
I agree. In the 2003 season, we had a similar situation in the Brazilian GP. I don't remember what driver was, but he almost hit the crane in that occasion.
That was Michael Schumacher, he almost went into the crane that I think was removing Pizzonia's Jaguar. Only missed by a couple of meters.
I absolutely feared the worst in the aftermath of Bianchi's accident, it felt like I was watching the death of Dan Wheldon all over again. Hoping he'll pull through this and will be able to race again.
We see the stars that shine so bright Stars made for us tonight
Best wishes to Bianchi as he recovers from surgery. I hope he'll be back in a racing car next year (or even this year if miracles allow it) and be at full health.
Unfortunately, this is one of those freak accidents. Mobile cranes can't exactly be dispensed with, its even more dangerous to leave out an unrecovered car. Perhaps the safety car would have prevented such a high speed accident, but ultimately Bianchi was just very unlucky.
Hope he recovers without any neurological deficit, that is most important in head injuries. Good news is he was breathing spontaneously soon after surgery.
I think Jules will be okay. Having seen the picture Taki Inoue and others have tweeted of the roll hoop missing, it seems clear to me that Bianchi's helmet is intact. He's obviously taken a huge hit, and probably fractured his skull or something like that, and had bleeding on the brain or another similar injury which required the doctors to get in there and operate as soon as possible to relieve the pressure. I doubt they'll have him back for 2014, but if everything goes well I think he'll be able to return at some point next year.
All wild speculation at this point of course, none of that is based on facts, just my own hunch. I'd like to keep a positive mindset at this point in time though.
AndreaModa wrote:I think Jules will be okay. Having seen the picture Taki Inoue and others have tweeted of the roll hoop missing, it seems clear to me that Bianchi's helmet is intact. He's obviously taken a huge hit, and probably fractured his skull or something like that, and had bleeding on the brain or another similar injury which required the doctors to get in there and operate as soon as possible to relieve the pressure. I doubt they'll have him back for 2014, but if everything goes well I think he'll be able to return at some point next year.
All wild speculation at this point of course, none of that is based on facts, just my own hunch. I'd like to keep a positive mindset at this point in time though.
I hope you're right.
It was strange trying to follow the race on the monitors at work, without the benefit of commentary. When they brought the "Bianchi" caption up over the accident site, I initially thought "Well they've messed up there, that's clearly Sutil's accident!"
When is the last time someone has gotten a penalty for going too fast under yellows? Because, and I hate to sound callous, but you really shouldn't be losing control of your car in a double yellow flag zone.
I could definitely see a safety changes made in wet races if there's a crash, as Brazil 2003 (twice) Europe 2007 and sadly now today have shown that it's very easy for multiple cars to aquaplane off in the same place, even under yellows.
fbjim wrote:When is the last time someone has gotten a penalty for going too fast under yellows? Because, and I hate to sound callous, but you really shouldn't be losing control of your car in a double yellow flag zone.
The 5-place penalties for Button and co in Suzuka qualifying in 2009?
fbjim wrote:When is the last time someone has gotten a penalty for going too fast under yellows? Because, and I hate to sound callous, but you really shouldn't be losing control of your car in a double yellow flag zone.
The 5-place penalties for Button and co in Suzuka qualifying in 2009?
No. If I remember well, it was in the European GP in 2010 season, when the safety car came after the Webber crash. Almost half of the field got a 5 seconds time penalty.
fbjim wrote:When is the last time someone has gotten a penalty for going too fast under yellows? Because, and I hate to sound callous, but you really shouldn't be losing control of your car in a double yellow flag zone.
The 5-place penalties for Button and co in Suzuka qualifying in 2009?
No. If I remember well, it was in the European GP in 2010 season, when the safety car came after the Webber crash. Almost half of the field got a 5 seconds time penalty.
Also, I think some people here are missing the point. The point is: the safety in the operation of removing a car of the track, not the weather. F1 can race in the wet conditions with safety, but first, F1 needs to improve the safety of removing the cars and debris of the track. The problem isn't the weather. Yes, the bad conditions helped in the crash, but bring a Crane without a safety car, without slow down all the drivers, in wet conditions, with drivers with Intermediaries tyres in a track for full wet tyres, it's a mistake.
Remember in Montreal, when a marshall was killed after the race, in a operation for removing a car. Again in Montreal, in 2011, when a marshal fell in the track trying to remove the debris of a crash. Remember in this year in Monza, when the Crane come to remove Chilton's car with only a single yellow flag at Variante della roggia. Remember when a Crane come again, in Hockenheim, in the hairpin, for remove a car, with just yellow flags in the corner. Guys, the weather isn't the point. A driver can crash into the crane in Dry conditions too (of course, its more easy to this happen in the wet conditions).
Charlie needs to reunite with the people for what can be done for improve the safety of the drivers and the marshals. I saw a resistance of race control in bring the safety car for remove a car in this year (probably with fear of influencing the race result). This needs to be changed. Again, I reinforce my opinion: the problem is the operation of removing a crashed car, not the weather.
I feel really sad for Bianchi, he proved in Monte Carlo he has got it, and even when he has been only 20th, he has looked a class apart compared to his team-mate and Ericcson. I hope this is only a season ending incident rather than a career ending incident, he truly deserves a shot in the mid-field
"Hispania are a waste of talent and petrol!" Martin Brundle, Australia Qualifying 2011
it shows some better photos of the crash. The engine cover was completely destroyed.
What a bunch of muppets that get attracted to posting in YouTube Comment sections...
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
Like everybody else on the forum, I am hoping for a full and speedy recovery for Jules. My thoughts are particularly with his parents and family at what will be an exceptionally difficult and trying time.
Shorty after this crash there were a range of views about whether images of the crash and Jules being treated at the scene would/should be shown - I have to come down strongly in favor of not broadcasting such images immediately. While I was watching the race with my 12-year old daughter and 4-year old son and am glad they didn't have to see it first hand, I think it's even more important Jules and his family were treated with dignity and restraint.
I would hesitate to draw too many snap conclusions about race safety in general or the evacuation procedure in particular from the fragmentary and contradictory reports that emerged yesterday - it's important to remember that incorrect or incomplete information, or speculation, can often be reported as 'fact' (with the best of intentions) in the early stages of an emergency or crisis. The confused reporting about why the helicopter wasn't immediately used to evacuate Jules yesterday is a case in point. That said, there certainly is a case for reviewing how/when the safety car is deployed when a car needs to be recovered - especially when I think about the chaos surrounding Sutil coming off in Germany earlier in the year.
CoopsII wrote:Wouldnt it be lovely if just for once someone said "I really want to emulate Boutsen and get a decent, if not spectacular, result with some solid points".
andrew2209 wrote:I could definitely see a safety changes made in wet races if there's a crash, as Brazil 2003 (twice) Europe 2007 and sadly now today have shown that it's very easy for multiple cars to aquaplane off in the same place, even under yellows.
Just as Europe 2007, most of the field were on the wrong tyres yesterday which made the situation extra dangerous.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" -Abraham Lincoln
andrew2209 wrote:I could definitely see a safety changes made in wet races if there's a crash, as Brazil 2003 (twice) Europe 2007 and sadly now today have shown that it's very easy for multiple cars to aquaplane off in the same place, even under yellows.
Just as Europe 2007, most of the field were on the wrong tyres yesterday which made the situation extra dangerous.
Wrong tyres? They were racing fine with the intermediates. No one was really making mistakes other than running wide a couple of times. Bianchi's accident (in my opinion) was a combination between the safety car not being called out for Sutil's crash and just bad luck for Bianchi.
Is there really such an issue with leaving a crashed F1 car? Surely the cars are designed to survive high-velocity crashes into each other, so it'd be a lesser of two evils to leave a car in the gravel rather than sending heavy machinery into the same area?
Of course, every situation is different though.
Get well soon, Jules. Please prove my pessimism wrong, because at the moment I can't see you racing this year or next.
Shizuka wrote:According to Radio Monte Carlo Sport, the injury required another surgery and now Bianchi is not able to breathe by himself... I'm really worried.
Remember Schumacher's ski accident? There were multiple conflicting reports at the time as to what was going on. It's entirely possible that Bianchi was put back on the ventilator with a custom oxygen blend to get more oxygen into his system.
Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into reports. Journalists don't have access to Bianchi or his doctors, and his father said they wouldn't know anything for certain for 24 hours. It's only been 22.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
I'm still feeling pretty subdued after yesterday, De Cesaris just capped things off, so I'm not doing any ROTR or that stuff. I don't mind that others are doing it, of course. What a crap Monday.
Sky Sports now reporting that other outlets reporting that Bianchi had second op and breathing unaided were incorrect. Latest news seems to be he is still intubated and in critical condition.
I guess it's good there hasn't needed to be a second operation, but damn, I'm getting scared now.
A second operation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Doctors tend to take a conservative approach to head injuries, but if they're confident a patient can handle a second operation, they'll do it. Likewise, not being able to breathe unaided after 24 hours is not necessarily a bad thing.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
Haven't seen the race or the crash, I was busy with my life before all this came to my knowledge. I just hope Jules Bianchi is also allowed to keep being busy with his life...
Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
Nobody has seen the crash - FOM had the sense not to show it, and whatever footage was recorded has been seized by the Japanese police as part of their investigation into the crash.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
AustralianStig wrote:Is there really such an issue with leaving a crashed F1 car? Surely the cars are designed to survive high-velocity crashes into each other, so it'd be a lesser of two evils to leave a car in the gravel rather than sending heavy machinery into the same area?
Only downside I could see is if the spinning car could go up over the crashed car like a ramp and into the catch-fencing or over the fence.
It depends on the situation though, for example in Hockenheim I didn't think that there was as desperate a need to retrieve Sutil's car as many people said. It was very unlikely another car would hit it in those conditions and wouldn't have been high speed if they did.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" -Abraham Lincoln
AustralianStig wrote:Is there really such an issue with leaving a crashed F1 car? Surely the cars are designed to survive high-velocity crashes into each other, so it'd be a lesser of two evils to leave a car in the gravel rather than sending heavy machinery into the same area?
Only downside I could see is if the spinning car could go up over the crashed car like a ramp and into the catch-fencing or over the fence.
What about all the sticky-out bits that could impale the driver in much the same way one did with Senna?
So, a video of the crash has made its way onto the internet.
For the sake of humanity, I won't post it; you can find it if you're that way inclined but it's really quite horrific. Jules was lucky to come out of it alive, quite frankly.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
Just watched it and I feel sick. How the hell did he survive that impact?
Can't imagine how many Gs that impact was, considering the deceleration from hitting a solid object must be severe.
Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
