What If?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 15 Sep 2015, 14:33

tBone wrote:
Aguaman wrote:What if Trulli partnered Alonso in 2005 and 2006. Who would drive for Toyota? Would they have sought out Mark?

Where would Fisichella go? Could he have ended up at Toyota and be considered as one of those potentially great drivers who never got a chance in a top team?

I imagine Fisi would have stayed alongside Massa at Sauber in 2005, and getting Barrichello's Ferrari seat for 2006.

That is assuming Fisichella was to outperform Massa again like he did in 2004.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 16 Sep 2015, 06:47

FullMetalJack wrote:
tBone wrote:
Aguaman wrote:What if Trulli partnered Alonso in 2005 and 2006. Who would drive for Toyota? Would they have sought out Mark?

Where would Fisichella go? Could he have ended up at Toyota and be considered as one of those potentially great drivers who never got a chance in a top team?

I imagine Fisi would have stayed alongside Massa at Sauber in 2005, and getting Barrichello's Ferrari seat for 2006.

That is assuming Fisichella was to outperform Massa again like he did in 2004.

Fisico to Williams could be possible, I guess. Maybe. Or Fisico goes to Toyota instead while everyone still does the same thing.

Peteroli34 · Post by **Peteroli34** » 16 Sep 2015, 09:36

Aguaman wrote:
Fisico to Williams could be possible, I guess. Maybe. Or Fisico goes to Toyota instead while everyone still does the same thing.

If Fisichella does go to Toyota and everything else stays the same. So Trulli goes to Force India in 2008 would he replace Massa in 2009 after his injury or would it go to someone else.

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 16 Sep 2015, 11:34

peteroli34 wrote:So Trulli goes to Force India in 2008 would he replace Massa in 2009 after his injury or would it go to someone else.

I'm not sure he would have replaced Massa. He would have probably still put his Force India on pole at Spa, but his race performance would have been somewhat lackluster compared to what Fisico managed. Don't know whether they would have given Badoer another chance or what else.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 16 Sep 2015, 14:36

novitopoli wrote:
peteroli34 wrote:So Trulli goes to Force India in 2008 would he replace Massa in 2009 after his injury or would it go to someone else.

I'm not sure he would have replaced Massa. He would have probably still put his Force India on pole at Spa, but his race performance would have been somewhat lackluster compared to what Fisico managed. Don't know whether they would have given Badoer another chance or what else.

I don't think Massa's injury would have happened. Somehow it just wouldn't in my books.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 17 Sep 2015, 13:55

What if the DFV was stillborn? Could a development of the Repco V8 take it's place?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 18 Sep 2015, 12:57

What if Swift or Panoz ran Formula 1 teams? How good would they be? Rejects?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 18 Sep 2015, 13:23

Whiteshore wrote:What if Swift or Panoz ran Formula 1 teams? How good would they be? Rejects?

Isaac Asimov in his short story, The Last Question wrote:INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 18 Sep 2015, 15:13

Whiteshore wrote:What if Swift or Panoz ran Formula 1 teams? How good would they be? Rejects?

Based off of how bad the Panoz LMP-01 and 07 were......and how bad the Abruzzi was/is.....And to a lesser extent the Esperante GTR-1 was.......

I'm fairly confident Panoz would have been a reject, which is sad, because his cars were awesome. Still not bad for a guy who made a couple patches with nicotine in them........

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 18 Sep 2015, 16:53

Simtek wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Swift or Panoz ran Formula 1 teams? How good would they be? Rejects?

Isaac Asimov in his short story, The Last Question wrote:INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

42.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 18 Sep 2015, 18:36

What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Sep 2015, 20:42

SuzukiSwift wrote:What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

IIRC the recent Autosport 1990 retro feature had him going to Ferrari for if not 1991 then 1992 for sure. So then either:

1) Mansell retires, Alesi goes to Williams and cleans up in 1992.
2) Mansell still goes to Williams for 1991, Alesi just stays at Tyrrell for 1991 but goes to Ferrari in 1992 with Nannini after they fire Prost, and Capelli never goes there.

Post by **Ataxia** » 18 Sep 2015, 21:35

SuzukiSwift wrote:What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

He'd have more of a choice when his wife's not in the mood...

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 19 Sep 2015, 01:24

Ataxia wrote:
SuzukiSwift wrote:What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

He'd have more of a choice when his wife's not in the mood...

We did that joke not even a week ago.

girry · Post by **girry** » 19 Sep 2015, 12:07

It only just struck me Stirling Moss was younger than Graham Hill - what if Stirling didn't have his Grand Prix career ending crash so early?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 20 Sep 2015, 01:46

What if Chevrolet made an F1 engine in the late 1980s-early 1990s? How much success would they have? What format would they use for their engine? Who would use said engine?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 20 Sep 2015, 11:53

Whiteshore wrote:What if Chevrolet made an F1 engine in the late 1980s-early 1990s? How much success would they have? What format would they use for their engine? Who would use said engine?

What do you think?

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 20 Sep 2015, 17:01

SuzukiSwift wrote:What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

He probably would have still been in Formula One by 1994, which means no epic moment at the Alemannenring.

Post by **Ataxia** » 20 Sep 2015, 17:57

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Ataxia wrote:
SuzukiSwift wrote:What if Nannini hadn't severed his hand?

He'd have more of a choice when his wife's not in the mood...

We did that joke not even a week ago.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 21 Sep 2015, 02:28

Who would have been a better fit for Renault in 2005 onwards?
Ralf, Mark or Fisico?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Sep 2015, 19:41

Aguaman wrote:Who would have been a better fit for Renault in 2005 onwards?
Ralf, Mark or Fisico?

Well, out of the three, Ralf is the best driver. Question is, would he have been a good number two driver for Fernando? Given as he tended to react when beaten by a teammate at least until that time period, I can see why it may have been a bad move for Renault. Also, signing Schumacher would have been a healthy bill and why pay that much for a number two?

Mark, on the other hand, is supposedly good with Alonso and in the larger picture also proved to be better than Fisichella, at least driver-wise. Then again, there's the issue of Webber becoming uncooperative towards Vettel at the end of 2012, nearly costing his team leader the title and irreparably souring the relationship between the two - who says relations between Webber and Alonso wouldn't have soured to this point?

Giancarlo is Fisichella.

So with hindsight, I would say Webber would have been the best choice, if only to secure the 2006 WCC, even with the mentioned risk. However, at the time, Fisichella was the wisest move, if we do limit ourselves to the three drivers mentioned.

Izzyeviel · Post by **Izzyeviel** » 22 Sep 2015, 21:19

What if Germany had won the Great war?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 22 Sep 2015, 21:42

Izzyeviel wrote:What if Germany had won the Great war?

Ah, now you're talking!

Here's an Alternate History series where the South won the American Civil War and entered an alliance with Britain and France, while the North allied with Germany following a defeat against the South in the "Second Mexican War".

In summary, as of 1945: Both World Wars have happened, Germany (still an Empire) won both of them and became a superpower alongside the United States (which is united again at the end of the Second World War), the Bourbon Monarchy was restored in France, Britain became Fascist along with the CSA (which was the Nazi Germany to the USA's Soviet Union in the Second World War), the Russian Revolution failed, Canada is under US military occupation, Quebec became independent, so did all of Ireland, Austria-Hungary is on the brink of collapse due to ethnic tensions, Germany controls the Low Countries and what used to be the Belgian Congo (apparently committing worse atrocities than Leopold II's boys did), Italy did bathplug all in both world wars, Japan rules the Pacific and East Asia because the US was too busy fighting the CS in the Second World War, nine nuclear weapons were used and the Ottoman Empire... exists.

tBone · Post by **tBone** » 22 Sep 2015, 22:26

Simtek wrote:
Izzyeviel wrote:What if Germany had won the Great war?

Ah, now you're talking!

Here's an Alternate History series where the South won the American Civil War and entered an alliance with Britain and France, while the North allied with Germany following a defeat against the South in the "Second Mexican War".

In summary, as of 1945: Both World Wars have happened, Germany (still an Empire) won both of them and became a superpower alongside the United States (which is united again at the end of the Second World War), the Bourbon Monarchy was restored in France, Britain became Fascist along with the CSA (which was the Nazi Germany to the USA's Soviet Union in the Second World War), the Russian Revolution failed, Canada is under US military occupation, Quebec became independent, so did all of Ireland, Austria-Hungary is on the brink of collapse due to ethnic tensions, Germany controls the Low Countries and what used to be the Belgian Congo (apparently committing worse atrocities than Leopold II's boys did), Italy did bathplug all in both world wars, Japan rules the Pacific and East Asia because the US was too busy fighting the CS in the Second World War, nine nuclear weapons were used and the Ottoman Empire... exists.

So basically, what you're trying to say is that we would have Mercedes and Auto Union fighting for the title in F1?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 22 Sep 2015, 22:37

Forgive me for being a turbonerd, but how the hell does the Ottoman Empire still exist in 1945!?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 22 Sep 2015, 23:07

Salamander wrote:Forgive me for being a turbonerd, but how the hell does the Ottoman Empire still exist in 1945!?

Well they are on the winning side of WWI in this reality, except like Austria-Hungary not doing too well because of ethnic minorities opposing the government. The Armenian Genocide still happens, and the ones that survived the genocide aren't too happy...

Post by **Nuppiz** » 22 Sep 2015, 23:47

Simtek wrote:
Izzyeviel wrote:What if Germany had won the Great war?

Ah, now you're talking!

Here's an Alternate History series where the South won the American Civil War and entered an alliance with Britain and France, while the North allied with Germany following a defeat against the South in the "Second Mexican War".

In summary, as of 1945: Both World Wars have happened, Germany (still an Empire) won both of them and became a superpower alongside the United States (which is united again at the end of the Second World War), the Bourbon Monarchy was restored in France, Britain became Fascist along with the CSA (which was the Nazi Germany to the USA's Soviet Union in the Second World War), the Russian Revolution failed, Canada is under US military occupation, Quebec became independent, so did all of Ireland, Austria-Hungary is on the brink of collapse due to ethnic tensions, Germany controls the Low Countries and what used to be the Belgian Congo (apparently committing worse atrocities than Leopold II's boys did), Italy did bathplug all in both world wars, Japan rules the Pacific and East Asia because the US was too busy fighting the CS in the Second World War, nine nuclear weapons were used and the Ottoman Empire... exists.

And I was supposed to go to bed early tonight.... instead I ended up reading the whole page!

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 24 Sep 2015, 11:57

What if Champ Car was purchased by Grand-Am instead of OWRS? How well would Grand Am have run Champ Car?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Sep 2015, 11:59

Whiteshore wrote:What if Champ Car was purchased by Grand-Am instead of OWRS? How well would Grand Am have run Champ Car?

Does it even matter?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Sep 2015, 16:43

Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Champ Car was purchased by Grand-Am instead of OWRS? How well would Grand Am have run Champ Car?

Does it even matter?

Salamander, you could ask that question of this whole thread. Ultimately none of this matters because none of it did happen. It's fun to speculate.

I suppose what Whiteshore is considering is, would teams like Andretti/Green, Ganassi and Newman/Haas have joined a Grand-Am Champ Car? Would Montoya have still won the 2000 Indy 500 with Ganassi? Would the reunification still have happened? What might have happened to Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez? Would Bourdais be a 4-time champion? Would the series have come over to Europe? Would Alex Zanardi win gold medals at the 2012 London Paralympics?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Sep 2015, 17:19

dr-baker wrote:
Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Champ Car was purchased by Grand-Am instead of OWRS? How well would Grand Am have run Champ Car?

Does it even matter?

Salamander, you could ask that question of this whole thread. Ultimately none of this matters because none of it did happen. It's fun to speculate.

I suppose what Whiteshore is considering is, would teams like Andretti/Green, Ganassi and Newman/Haas have joined a Grand-Am Champ Car? Would Montoya have still won the 2000 Indy 500 with Ganassi? Would the reunification still have happened? What might have happened to Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez? Would Bourdais be a 4-time champion? Would the series have come over to Europe? Would Alex Zanardi win gold medals at the 2012 London Paralympics?

And the answer to that is, it's such an open-ending question with so many variables to account for that it's nigh impossible to give a decent answer.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Sep 2015, 20:38

Salamander wrote:And the answer to that is, it's such an open-ending question with so many variables to account for that it's nigh impossible to give a decent answer.

You do have a fair point there. The questions I posed above are just some of the variables that I could think of from the top of my head. And it covers more than a decade of history. I sure can't imagine the direction Grand-Am might take Champ Car. And letting the FIA take over American single-seaters if F1 blows up/dies/Formula Elaborate Bluff happens would equally see a totally different scenario in ways we cannot fully envisage.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Sep 2015, 08:38

What if Irvine had won in 1999?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Sep 2015, 09:26

CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

It would make the discussion on the least talented F1 champion a lot shorter.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Sep 2015, 09:43

Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

It would make the discussion on the least talented F1 champion a lot shorter.

So... Villeneuve > Irvine? Or would that be the limit of the debate?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Sep 2015, 09:49

dr-baker wrote:
Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

It would make the discussion on the least talented F1 champion a lot shorter.

So... Villeneuve > Irvine? Or would that be the limit of the debate?

Yes. At least Villeneuve was good enough to win races on merit. Irvine won Australia only by attrition, was gifted Austria by Coulthard's incompetence, had to be handed Germany by Salo, and Malaysia by Schumacher - where Schumacher was up to a second faster than him in both qualifying and race trim.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Sep 2015, 09:51

Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

It would make the discussion on the least talented F1 champion a lot shorter.

Hah! Although, technically, as there would be one more name on the list it would in fact make the discussion longer.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Sep 2015, 10:18

CoopsII wrote:
Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

It would make the discussion on the least talented F1 champion a lot shorter.

Hah! Although, technically, as there would be one more name on the list it would in fact make the discussion longer.

Well, no, because you bring up the discussion, first reply is Eddie Irvine, and then you say "Oh, yeah." and the thread ends.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 25 Sep 2015, 10:39

What if Webber took up IndyCar in 2014? Could the presence of a first-class driver and someone who before leaving F1 was quite competitive boost IndyCar's popularity?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Sep 2015, 10:39

Salamander wrote:Well, no, because you bring up the discussion, first reply is Eddie Irvine, and then you say "Oh, yeah." and the thread ends.

Nah, I'd just wait for someone to chip in with the words 'Hamilton' or 'Vettel' and then go elsewhere whilst the discussion parties like its 2012.