2010 Korean GP Discussion thread

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 22 Oct 2010, 12:20

dr-baker wrote:
coops wrote:
dr-baker wrote:HRT have been fined and reprimanded for releasing Sakon Yamamoto with a tyre blanket still attached and then going to retrieve it from the pit lane exit...

TV producers should play the Laurel & Hardy music everytime they cut to a HRT car or the garage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNjPgE1muTM

Nah, don't you mean Benny Hill?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dbueo45 ... re=related

Go home, Colin Koles.

coops · Post by **coops** » 22 Oct 2010, 12:27

CarlosFerreira wrote:Go home, Colin Koles, the Fastest Milk Man In The West

Seriously, each anecdotal HRT post just brightens my day. They are so Rejectful they deserve a memorial forum, perhaps not now but when they finally quit.

They make Andrea Moda look like McLaren, and I mean McLaren when Ron Dennis was still the gaffer.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 22 Oct 2010, 12:55

Wait a minute, i'll have one of this worse than andrea moda nonsense, compared to sassetti's wonder blunder mobiles a hrt is at best a 1992 march.

Remember thanks to chandok, hrt are ahead of virgin in the standings, karun has finished higher up in the order than both Glock and DeGrassi.

If that stays the same then i will be happy, even if Alonso bores his way to the title...

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 22 Oct 2010, 13:25

patrick wrote:Another interesting thing is the speed trap figures which put Renault up with McLaren and around 10kph faster than Red Bull and Ferrari. Renault must have done a great job on their F-Duct!

Or run less wing that other people, or both.

BTW I don't think it's going to be important at all whether the tyres degrade today or not. The track is completely new and will change a lot as the weekend goes on. If they didn't have dramatic issues with their tyres today (which they haven't) there will be no problems at all on Sunday.

Post by **mario** » 22 Oct 2010, 13:33

How much money have HRT blown on fines this year for silly mistakes? It must be getting on for a sizeable amount, as they have broken the procedures on a number of occasions and been hit with a fine as a result.

That tyre blanket just cost them $5,000, there was the unsafe release in Monza which lead to that mechanic being injured, for which they were fined $20,000, then Klien and Senna between them racked up around $3,200 in fines at Singapore for speeding in the pit lane during Q1. For a larger team like, say, Mclaren, who might pick up a fine for a procedural error (such as being fined $10,000 back in 2008, when Hamilton was sent out on a Friday practise session at Interlagos with the wrong set of tyres), that sort of penalty is pocket change. However, when you're a team like HRT, where your budget is only a few tens of millions, racking up several tens of thousands in fines is going to have a bigger effect.

On another note, it looks as if Webber is targeting this race to counter Vettel's recent surge in performance, as he has decided to use his eighth new engine this weekend. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87627

Unlike most of the other teams (only Renault did the same thing), Webber decided to re-use an engine at Monza, instead of using a fresh engine (he used the same engine as Spa, where the repeated rain showers, slowing the pace down, and cooler air temperature would have reduced the stress on the engine). Vettel, however, will have to re-use an older engine (no details on which one he will use just yet), so he will be at a slight power disadvantage by comparison (not much - probably under 10bhp, depending on age and wear - but just a little bit).

[EDIT] It appears that, following feedback from the drivers after the opening practise sessions, that the organisers and the FIA are going to make a few alterations to the track. Firstly, the pit lane entry is to be modified so cars do not have to slow down so sharply in the final corner, especially after a few near collisions when it was unclear whether a driver was intending to pit or not.
In addition, the kerbs at Turn 16 will be raised to stop the car bottoming out, and at Turn 18, to stop the drivers cutting the corner and dragging debris across the track, as is the case at the moment.

http://en.espnf1.com/korea/motorsport/story/31817.html

That said, others might suggest that the drivers are encouraged to copy Hamilton through Turn 16 - he told reporters that he had avoided driving over the kerb in the first place so he wouldn't risk damaging the car...

coops · Post by **coops** » 22 Oct 2010, 14:35

mario wrote:That said, others might suggest that the drivers are encouraged to copy Hamilton through Turn 16 - he told reporters that he had avoided driving over the kerb in the first place so he wouldn't risk damaging the car...

Sounds a bit like common sense being employed. Try explaining that to Sakon Yamamoto.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 22 Oct 2010, 15:54

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Go home, Colin Kolles.

Fixed. What a silly mistake from HRT, this definately shouldn't happen even in F-Ford.

Pedro_Diniz · Post by **Pedro_Diniz** » 22 Oct 2010, 16:51

Ok the inevitable weather check.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5019

There's a typhoon in the region which could hit South Korea by Monday, albeit much weaker than it is now. Even if it only rains on Saturday night, as predicted, that'll wash away any of the grip put down on an already green track. Interesting!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 22 Oct 2010, 17:02

While re-watching FP2, I can see that Mark Webber is lifting his inner front wheel in many corners, anyone knows why?

That BBC weather forecast is saying rain on Sunday, the whole freaking Sunday! :shock:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Oct 2010, 17:57

Myrvold wrote:That BBC weather forecast is saying rain on Sunday, the whole freaking Sunday!

If it's as bad as at Suzuka on Saturday, might my not-so-serious Predictament Prediction come true (albeit for a different reason)?

Post by **mario** » 22 Oct 2010, 18:46

Myrvold wrote:While re-watching FP2, I can see that Mark Webber is lifting his inner front wheel in many corners, anyone knows why?

That BBC weather forecast is saying rain on Sunday, the whole freaking Sunday!

It seems that Mark probably had a damaged rear anti-roll bar (similar to the problems that Vettel had during qualifying in Turkey).

Q. (Marc Surer - Sky TV Germany) Christian, today Mark Webber was doing some laps lifting his front wheels. It looked horrible but it was quite fast. It looked like he was driving without rear anti-roll bar. Was I right with my impression?

CH: You weren't far wrong. Basically there was an issue with Mark's car and it was rectified during the session. But even on three wheels he was posting very competitive lap times. There was nothing major but your assumption is not too far off.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87623

As for the weather forecasts, if they are right, it'll make things very difficult for the drivers. If it rains overnight, the loss of rubber is likely to make tyre wear much more of a problem (Alonso commented that, at the moment, tyre wear is quite high, because the cars are sliding about, shearing the rubber on the tyre surface). Button would probably be the happiest in that situation, and Alonso knows that his car is fairly gentle on its tyres, but Red Bull might have a few strategy problems. Kubica, too, might fancy his chances of pulling off a good result, since he was very strong in the first practise sessions when the rubber had only started going down.

If it rains during the race itself, Hamilton and Vettel are likely to be happier - for both of those men, wet conditions would play to their strengths, and potentially give them an advantage over Webber. After all, Vettel and Hamilton would be more willing to take more risks. In Hamilton's case, he has to, being so far back and with an inferior car, whilst Vettel knows that Mark wants to win in Korea, and beating him would give Vettel a much better shot at the title. Webber, conversely, has to be more cautious as he has much more to loose, although he is quite motivated and seems up for beating Vettel (see his decision to take a fresh engine).
Again, Kubica could feature - the cars are essentially the same as Suzuka, where he was strong in qualifying, and he is happy in mixed conditions (2nd in Australia, 5th in China and 3rd in Belgium). Rosberg might also play a part in variable conditions - although you're never quite sure how, he manages to make his way through turbulent races to finish higher then he really should be (like his podium in Silverstone), given how weak his car is. And, of course, a wet race in unfamiliar surroundings could give the new teams their last chance to get a good finish through attrition, should conditions prove to be particularly treacherous and catch out a number of the big names.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 22 Oct 2010, 18:49

dr-baker wrote:
Myrvold wrote:That BBC weather forecast is saying rain on Sunday, the whole freaking Sunday!

If it's as bad as at Suzuka on Saturday, might my not-so-serious Predictament Prediction come true (albeit for a different reason)?

Not only that, but Will Buxton pointed out that the track might have flooding issues because of where it's located.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 22 Oct 2010, 19:27

So, what you are saying are... If we get a Suzuka-ish weather on Sunday, we might now get a race at all... after all this Korean GP not happening talk. jeeez.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 22 Oct 2010, 20:42

Myrvold wrote:So, what you are saying are... If we get a Suzuka-ish weather on Sunday, we might now get a race at all... after all this Korean GP not happening talk. jeeez.

Oh, we'd have a race, it would just be with boats and not with cars. Which I predict BMW Sauber Ferrari would win.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 22 Oct 2010, 21:23

dr-baker wrote:
Myrvold wrote:That BBC weather forecast is saying rain on Sunday, the whole freaking Sunday!

If it's as bad as at Suzuka on Saturday, might my not-so-serious Predictament Prediction come true (albeit for a different reason)?

You'd take the jackpot then!

Post by **mario** » 22 Oct 2010, 21:35

More changes for Webber, it seems, as there are reports that Webber has decided to change his chassis as well as his engine.
The current chassis, No. 6, is the one he has used in Japan and Singapore, but it seems that Webber has not been totally happy with his car ever since the new chassis was installed. Instead, he is going back to chassis No. 3, which started out as Vettel's chassis, before it had to be repaired (that's right, it was "Luscious Liz"). However, the need for repairs didn't seem to hurt Mark, as he won two races using that chassis - so, perhaps, it is a change for the best. It certainly seems to be the case that Mark is pulling out the stops to win this race...
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... s_Lizquot/

Whole Spanish Press · Post by **Whole Spanish Press** » 22 Oct 2010, 21:49

CarlosFerreira wrote:Go home, Colin Koles.

HEY, YOU!!!

YEAH, YOU!

GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS OUT OF OUR SORRY SCAPEGOAT!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:35

Whole Spanish Press wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Go home, Colin Koles.

HEY, YOU!!!

YEAH, YOU!

GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS OUT OF OUR SORRY SCAPEGOAT!

Sheer brilliance :lol:

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:35

I'm going to miss this race due to an emergency flight to the US, then I will spend the next four weeks in the US, this missing decent coverage of the remaining races. Anyone know somewhere I could watch the BBC coverage online in the US? And iplayer too, so I can watch this race later.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:09

Kubica on top at the conclusion of FP3... could this be the weekend?

(To be honest Japan and Monaco could have also been the weekend...)

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:26

fjackdaw wrote:I'm going to miss this race due to an emergency flight to the US, then I will spend the next four weeks in the US, this missing decent coverage of the remaining races. Anyone know somewhere I could watch the BBC coverage online in the US? And iplayer too, so I can watch this race later.

Speed broadcasts qualifying and the race live. You can try justin.tv or atdhe.net, but those aren't reliable.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 04:30

Holy crap... we may be in for a half decent race.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 23 Oct 2010, 05:28

Q1...once again Liuzzi fails, but Yamamoto only 1 tenth slower than De Grassi, and almost a second faster than Senna :shock:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 05:33

Valrys wrote:Q1...once again Liuzzi fails, but Yamamoto only 1 tenth slower than De Grassi, and almost a second faster than Senna

Senna's career isn't going to last longer than Abu Dabby at this rate...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Oct 2010, 05:49

Wizzie wrote:
Valrys wrote:Q1...once again Liuzzi fails, but Yamamoto only 1 tenth slower than De Grassi, and almost a second faster than Senna

Senna's career isn't going to last longer than Abu Dabby at this rate...

Nah I agree it's almost like he's given up already.

Liuzzi disappoints once more, and more rubbish excuses from him about his performance. Didn't test the options in FP3? Come on man Sutil managed it, why couldn't you?

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:05

Senna returned to pit when it was 2 min left, and on that lap, he had two personal best on the two first splits. Then Yamamoto goes for 2 more laps, and beats him. I don't understand what they are thinking...

razta · Post by **razta** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:37

GMIF1P - Brundle on Rubens' complaint to Charlie
"he's through to q3, what's he gonna say? HE HELD ME UP FOR 5 YEARS?!"

:lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:38

Wizzie wrote:
Whole Spanish Press wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Go home, Colin Koles.

HEY, YOU!!!

YEAH, YOU!

GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS OUT OF OUR SORRY SCAPEGOAT!

Sheer brilliance

mario wrote:More changes for Webber, it seems, as there are reports that Webber has decided to change his chassis as well as his engine.
The current chassis, No. 6, is the one he has used in Japan and Singapore, but it seems that Webber has not been totally happy with his car ever since the new chassis was installed. Instead, he is going back to chassis No. 3, which started out as Vettel's chassis, before it had to be repaired (that's right, it was "Luscious Liz"). However, the need for repairs didn't seem to hurt Mark, as he won two races using that chassis - so, perhaps, it is a change for the best. It certainly seems to be the case that Mark is pulling out the stops to win this race...
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... s_Lizquot/

That's good to hear. It did occur to me a while back that Webber had slipped back since changing chassis. Will they be able to change for this weekend?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:41

Oh dear...

There is a difference between here and Interlagos... atleast at Interlagos the water can actually drain somewhere...

Post by **mario** » 23 Oct 2010, 10:03

CarlosFerreira wrote:
mario wrote:More changes for Webber, it seems, as there are reports that Webber has decided to change his chassis as well as his engine.
The current chassis, No. 6, is the one he has used in Japan and Singapore, but it seems that Webber has not been totally happy with his car ever since the new chassis was installed. Instead, he is going back to chassis No. 3, which started out as Vettel's chassis, before it had to be repaired (that's right, it was "Luscious Liz"). However, the need for repairs didn't seem to hurt Mark, as he won two races using that chassis - so, perhaps, it is a change for the best. It certainly seems to be the case that Mark is pulling out the stops to win this race...
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... s_Lizquot/

That's good to hear. It did occur to me a while back that Webber had slipped back since changing chassis. Will they be able to change for this weekend?

From the way that article was written, I believe that Webber's chassis was swapped out in advance of this weekend, so I believe that there should not be any problems. It does seem as if Webber is more comfortable in his car, given that he was so close to Vettel, but, despite having a new engine (although Brundle said that, according to information from Renault and Red Bull, the power difference was fairly negligible, at around 5-6bhp less for a used engine), Webber was consistently slower down the main straight then Vettel, by a couple of kph. That might suggest that Webber is running a slightly higher downforce package to hedge against wet weather tomorrow, although we will have to wait and see what happens.

On another note, the stewards have been looking at a few incidents over the race weekend, and during qualifying, and have announced their decisions.

Document 27
No / Driver 14 - Adrian Sutil
Team Force India F1 Team
Time 14:01:00
Session Qualifying
Fact Pit Lace Speeding - 108.9 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine - €1,800

Document No.33
No / Driver 3, Michael Schumacher
Team Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
Time 14:41
Session Qualifying
Fact Between turns 10 and 14 during Qualifying 2, Car 3 impeded Car 9 as evidenced by video and telemetry data.
Offence Breach of Article 16.1 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty A penalty of a Reprimand is imposed on the driver.
The stewards note that irrespective of the team’s opinion that car 9 was not on a “fast lap”, it is ultimately the drivers responsibility to be conscious of closing cars via the use of mirrors and blue flags/lights.

Document No.34
No / Driver 4, Nico Rosberg
Team Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
Time 11:54
Session Practice Three
Fact During Practice 3 between turns 14 and 15 Car 4 impeded Car 8 forcing the driver of Car 8 to brake heavily
Offence Breach of Article 16.1 of the 2010 FIA Sporting Regulations
Decision Noting that the driver of Car 4 attempted to avoid impeding Car 8 the Stewards decide to impose no Penalty.

It might seem strange that the last complaint should have been brought up now, even though it took place in the final practise session. However, we know that the right had side of the grid, which is where the even numbered cars start, is very dusty (as no cars have travelled over that part of the grid), and would work against you at the start. Nico Rosberg happens to be in 5th place, and Massa is in 6th - if Rosberg happened to be penalised, Massa would have started in 5th. Starting from there would have put him in a position to stay ahead of Button, who starts in 7th, and possibly get ahead of Hamilton in 4th, all of which would have helped Alonso out enormously by hindering two of his rivals.

Fortunately for all, it seems that the stewards, and probably Jones in particular, were wise to Ferrari's intentions, and have told them to, to quote from Woody Allen "go forth and multiply, but not in as many words".

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 10:37

And just to illustrate Mario's point about the grid Bob says he'ld be better off if he was starting from 11th rather than 8th.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Rosberg ends up 2nd or 3rd by the end of the first lap.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:30

I don't really have a reason to post this except to point out that even the picture that accompanies the article depicts him as a grumpy old man. :lol:

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:39

Wizzie wrote:I don't really have a reason to post this except to point out that even the picture that accompanies the article depicts him as a grumpy old man.

The headline does a pretty good job of conveying that same notion. It may as well read "Schumacher caught on Barrichello's lawn again".

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:49

fjackdaw wrote:I'm going to miss this race due to an emergency flight to the US, then I will spend the next four weeks in the US, this missing decent coverage of the remaining races. Anyone know somewhere I could watch the BBC coverage online in the US? And iplayer too, so I can watch this race later.

I have a solution, at least for live programming. But there doesn't seem to be a private message system on this forum, should I e-mail you?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:51

Mister Fungus wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:I'm going to miss this race due to an emergency flight to the US, then I will spend the next four weeks in the US, this missing decent coverage of the remaining races. Anyone know somewhere I could watch the BBC coverage online in the US? And iplayer too, so I can watch this race later.

I have a solution, at least for live programming. But there doesn't seem to be a private message system on this forum, should I e-mail you?

That's generally what everyone uses for PMs here.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:11

Yes, I know. But I can't find one on this forum
EDIT: Oh wait, misunderstood your post. Never mind

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:08

Mister Fungus wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:I'm going to miss this race due to an emergency flight to the US, then I will spend the next four weeks in the US, this missing decent coverage of the remaining races. Anyone know somewhere I could watch the BBC coverage online in the US? And iplayer too, so I can watch this race later.

I have a solution, at least for live programming. But there doesn't seem to be a private message system on this forum, should I e-mail you?

Hi! Yes please, that'd be really great thanks. Not sure how to PM, but I think if you click the envelope icon, it'll e-mail me directly. Cheers!

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:48

Looking very likely that there'll be rain overnight and tomorrow morning, and possible showers through til 3pm.

Should be exciting! I'm tempted to go out and put an each way bet on either Rosberg, Kubica or Button....

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 23 Oct 2010, 14:25

at least if it rains it removes most if not all of the bias to one side of the grid.

of course with Webber's starts being so poor this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go backwards regardless.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 23 Oct 2010, 14:28

And yet Autosport keep reporting that rain will stop 3 hours before the race start...