Grand Prix Rejects

Don't forget also that Brundle and DC have been mates for nearly 15 years now, so no doubt they get along with each other and know how to spin a good yarn together.

I think this could actually work and DC brings the modern level of F1 experience that Martin now lacks, plus he's observant enough to identify things that Martin misses.

However, in terms of getting 'excited' about the race, maybe that'll be more difficult for them. A good commentator can 'set the scene' so that even a casual fan can understand what's going on and appreciate the sport for what it is.

Hopefully this is another way that 2011 will improve on 2010...

I hope the Beeb will also announce that F1 will be in HD for 2011.

Gilles27 wrote:I hope the Beeb will also announce that F1 will be in HD for 2011.

I don't know if that is in BBC hands. It think it is in Bernies hands and he showed some resistance to it...

It's Official: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9355081.stm

DanielPT wrote:

Gilles27 wrote:I hope the Beeb will also announce that F1 will be in HD for 2011.

I don't know if that is in BBC hands. It think it is in Bernies hands and he showed some resistance to it...

It is mostly in Bernie's hands, since FOM provides the live feed for the TV crews, which are then relayed back to their respective home countries. In theory, the BBC could try to upscale the original feed (I think that in Germany, where there is an option to watch F1 in HD, that they have to upscale the signal), but it is probably an awkward solution, and the picture quality is still not as good compared to filming it with HD equipment in the first place.
Still, the BBC and many other broadcasters are pushing FOM hard to change, and it seems that they are responding, albeit slowly; still, it seems a shame that F1 is lagging behind so badly when it has been proven that it is easily possible (NASCAR, for example, has offered HD feeds to broadcasters for several years now, so it can be done).

Brundle and DC as a pairing is interesting ... and something of a gamble that does have the potential to backfire.

Whilst Brundle has the eloquence to be a main commentator, it's not just a matter of him landing in that role; it's a case of him switching roles from analyst to main caller. Under the traditional motorsport commentary model, one describes what's happening and provides factual details, the other passes judgment. For example (and I'm making these up):

Murray Walker: "And de Cesaris shuts the door on Mansell!"
James Hunt: "What an idiot!"

or

Jonathan Legard: "Kobayashi goes down the inside and passes Alonso!"
Martin Brundle: "Oooh, great move, love it!"

If this model is to be maintained, Brundle now has to switch mindsets, and arguably he'll have to restrict himself from commenting on what's happening and leave that for DC, or else DC will have nothing to do. After 14 years in a comment/judgment role, I can imagine that old habits are hard to break.

Alternatively, and I find this possibility quite intriguing and exciting, Brundle and DC might represent a different style of commentary altogether, ie a more conversational style rather like Toby Moody and Julian Ryder (as someone has already mentioned above), as if you're listening in to two guys chatting in the pub as the race unfolds. It can be more informal, less rigid and perhaps even more interesting.

I'm happy with this decision

Do you guys get the BBC commentary feed on the Australian coverage? I thought Cameron McConville and 'Rusty' did the honours...

Theres an old photo of Ledgard standing next to a BBC Radio Norwich/Newark/Rotchdale/somewhere insignificant van near the beginning of his career. I thought that was fitting, he always seemed perfect for local radio.

The addition of DC is very nice, but i do worry. I'm hoping this vast increase in speech that he'll have to do wont mess his reputation up.

Also, Johnny Herbert for Coulthard's old job alongside Jake and Eddie

(Edit - Post 100! Its only taken two years)

mario wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

Gilles27 wrote:I hope the Beeb will also announce that F1 will be in HD for 2011.

I don't know if that is in BBC hands. It think it is in Bernies hands and he showed some resistance to it...

It is mostly in Bernie's hands, since FOM provides the live feed for the TV crews, which are then relayed back to their respective home countries. In theory, the BBC could try to upscale the original feed (I think that in Germany, where there is an option to watch F1 in HD, that they have to upscale the signal), but it is probably an awkward solution, and the picture quality is still not as good compared to filming it with HD equipment in the first place.
Still, the BBC and many other broadcasters are pushing FOM hard to change, and it seems that they are responding, albeit slowly; still, it seems a shame that F1 is lagging behind so badly when it has been proven that it is easily possible (NASCAR, for example, has offered HD feeds to broadcasters for several years now, so it can be done).

They've got it in Germany:

f1fanatic_co_uk Keith Collantine
RT @F1_Addict: Sky Deutschland CEO Brian Sullivan has this afternoon confirmed they will show #F1 in HD next season - http://bit.ly/f99F9v

Although I guess this is what you were mentioned about upscaling the signal rather than 'true HD'. In Belgium I saw a couple of HD cameras being used, including one suspended from a blimp with the F1 logo on it. I think it's on it's way.

To be honest I'm going to miss the banter between DC and EJ, and I also didn't mind Legard (am I really saying that?)

The chemistry was great, unlikely the beeb won't utilize it for bits and pieces in the race build up & F1 Forum

James1978 wrote:To be honest I'm going to miss the banter between DC and EJ, and I also didn't mind Legard (am I really saying that?)

According to the report on Autosport, the indication is that DC will still be present for the pre race broadcast, and the post race discussion forum - it's just that he will commentate on top of his current duties, not that they will replace what he does at the moment.

Coulthard is embarking on his third season with the BBC, having retired from F1 at the end of 2008. Although he is stepping up to the commentary box, he will continue to provide his expert analysis for both pre-race build-up and post-race shows.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88861
So, there should still be plenty of banter between EJ and DC - if anything, I expect that EJ might have a few more digs at DC over his commentating.

That said, will Coulthard be racing in the DTM series for 2011? I'm curious to know what will happen if, as happened last year, he is attending a race instead of commentating - would Brundle have to go it alone, or will one of the other presenters have to take DC's place? It happened to Davidson a few times last year when testing or racing for Peugeot (and I believe that he will race for Peugeot next year, so they could have the same problem), but it was OK there because they could cover his absence with other former drivers or presenters.

mario wrote:That said, will Coulthard be racing in the DTM series for 2011? I'm curious to know what will happen if, as happened last year, he is attending a race instead of commentating - would Brundle have to go it alone, or will one of the other presenters have to take DC's place?

Nothing has been confirmed yet but both sides seem to be willing to continue the deal. But that is a smaller problem since DTM races are scedueled to not run alongside F1 events since DTM has no chance of beating Formula 1 in TV ratings in Germany which is still the biggest market.

I''m quite happy about it. We don't need someone talking fast rubbish to make it exciting.

Brundle was fairly quiet at first and I think he does a very good job nowadays. I don't think we need someone to take the role of the over-excited commentator. After so many years of Murray Walker I think we all expect it, but do we really need it to enjoy the sport?

madcat wrote:I''m quite happy about it. We don't need someone talking fast rubbish to make it exciting.

Brundle was fairly quiet at first and I think he does a very good job nowadays. I don't think we need someone to take the role of the over-excited commentator. After so many years of Murray Walker I think we all expect it, but do we really need it to enjoy the sport?

Exactly, we don't. And I agree with others who have mentioned about Brundle's experience, over 10 years in the job, he's more than ready to take the lead as far as I'm concerned. Legard was a shame, he was a good guy, knew his stuff, and was passionate about the sport and his job, but I just don't think he was the right guy for it. We put 2009 down to experience, being new to the job, etc. 2010 was his chance to make the step and prove everyone of his abilities, but it didn't work out. I'm definately looking forward to seeing how these two get on though, because we equally have no clue what they'll be like and they might well indeed be just as bad. It's pointless speculating about what they'll be like because it really is an unknown until they're thrown in there at Bahrain.

Should be interesting!

MaxZero wrote:Theres an old photo of Ledgard standing next to a BBC Radio Norwich/Newark/Rotchdale/somewhere insignificant van near the beginning of his career. I thought that was fitting, he always seemed perfect for local radio.

No, don't worry, none taken...

Paul
(BBC Radio Norfolk producer).

TimmyB wrote:A good commentator can 'set the scene' so that even a casual fan can understand what's going on and appreciate the sport for what it is.

Brundle does often do the "If you haven't watched F1 before..." explanations, actually.

Paul Hayes wrote:

MaxZero wrote:Theres an old photo of Ledgard standing next to a BBC Radio Norwich/Newark/Rotchdale/somewhere insignificant van near the beginning of his career. I thought that was fitting, he always seemed perfect for local radio.

No, don't worry, none taken...

Paul
(BBC Radio Norfolk producer).

Add me to the angry mob, I was born in Norwich

Gilles27 wrote:Although I guess this is what you were mentioned about upscaling the signal rather than 'true HD'. In Belgium I saw a couple of HD cameras being used, including one suspended from a blimp with the F1 logo on it. I think it's on it's way.

No, it's not upscaled HD. sky made quite a point of the fact that it will be "native HD" in their press release today. So it very much looks like FOM will produce that in 2011.

I remember Bernie saying there will be HD in 2011 during last season. Not sure if it was the interview with Eddie Jordan, it might have been but I can't remember...Anyway so it's only a matter of time before the BBC's announcement.

AndreaModa wrote:I remember Bernie saying there will be HD in 2011 during last season. Not sure if it was the interview with Eddie Jordan, it might have been but I can't remember...Anyway so it's only a matter of time before the BBC's announcement.

About 2 weeks after buying a HD telly to replace my 20 year old Toshiba, I read this. What luck!

My initial reaction to the Coulthard news was negative, while I am glad to see Legard go, I felt there were better candidates, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Having thought about it a bit more I am now optimistic. One of the things I felt most annoying about Legard was that he simply describes what's going on in front of him, a "radio style" which is all to common in sports commentary on TV. For me, good commentary is when someone tells me something I don't know, I can see whats going on in front of me, and while it can be helpful to provide the names of the players/drivers for the casual fan, it is slightly insulting in a way to simply say what I can already see.

Perhaps having two "colour commentators" (to borrow an American term) and no "play by play" commentator they can move away from the "say what you see" style and towards the more informative style employed by 5 Live practice sessions and the Eurosport MotoGP commentary.

Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, moving away from the way Murray Walker did it should stop the needless (and unfair) comparisons.

Collieafc wrote:About 2 weeks after buying a HD telly to replace my 20 year old Toshiba, I read this. What luck!

This sounds familiar! Are you actually my dad?

Thoughtlessly worded, Apologies over that.



Got it wrong ontop of that, it was Merseyside

Warren Hughes wrote:

Collieafc wrote:About 2 weeks after buying a HD telly to replace my 20 year old Toshiba, I read this. What luck!

This sounds familiar! Are you actually my dad?

No offence, but I hope not!

Collieafc wrote:

Warren Hughes wrote:

Collieafc wrote:About 2 weeks after buying a HD telly to replace my 20 year old Toshiba, I read this. What luck!

This sounds familiar! Are you actually my dad?

No offence, but I hope not!

None taken! You are Scottish, after all.

Glennerz wrote:Do you guys get the BBC commentary feed on the Australian coverage? I thought Cameron McConville and 'Rusty' did the honours...

We get the race commentary from the BBC, but the pre-race show and the annoying voice-overs just as the ad break comes are done the Aussie commentators. And I'm not sure if McConville did any commentary, but he definitely isn't a main commentator.

eytl wrote:Whilst Brundle has the eloquence to be a main commentator, it's not just a matter of him landing in that role; it's a case of him switching roles from analyst to main caller. Under the traditional motorsport commentary model, one describes what's happening and provides factual details, the other passes judgment. For example (and I'm making these up):

Murray Walker: "And de Cesaris shuts the door on Mansell!"
James Hunt: "What an idiot!"

Well, you say you made that up but I'm sure if we collectively worked our way through the BBC archive from the 80s and early 90s, we could actually find a match for that quote!!

I wasn't sure about this at first, but I am coming round to the idea a little more now. It does work in some other sports where both commentators have been professionals in that sport eg snooker (and yes, I know that's totally different to F1 in pace and excitement - well, excepting the Valencia GP of course) and cricket.

I think it has to be an improvement on Legard at least. I'd love Croft to be on TV but you can't blame the BBC for keeping a winning team on 5 Live really.

Barbazza wrote:

eytl wrote:Whilst Brundle has the eloquence to be a main commentator, it's not just a matter of him landing in that role; it's a case of him switching roles from analyst to main caller. Under the traditional motorsport commentary model, one describes what's happening and provides factual details, the other passes judgment. For example (and I'm making these up):

Murray Walker: "And de Cesaris shuts the door on Mansell!"
James Hunt: "What an idiot!"

Well, you say you made that up but I'm sure if we collectively worked our way through the BBC archive from the 80s and early 90s, we could actually find a match for that quote!!

Found it!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPe0t02dWF4

IdeFan wrote:My initial reaction to the Coulthard news was negative, while I am glad to see Legard go, I felt there were better candidates, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Having thought about it a bit more I am now optimistic. One of the things I felt most annoying about Legard was that he simply describes what's going on in front of him, a "radio style" which is all to common in sports commentary on TV. For me, good commentary is when someone tells me something I don't know, I can see whats going on in front of me, and while it can be helpful to provide the names of the players/drivers for the casual fan, it is slightly insulting in a way to simply say what I can already see.

Agree, and I also found it hard to take any notice of Leggard when he described what it was like for the drivers during a race, etc. Being old enough to remember Brundle driving for Tyrrell, I have a lot of respect for an experienced driver's opinion. Murray Walker had the years behind him, it was like listening to your grandad. I think Coulthard will be an interesting addition.

Peter wrote:

Barbazza wrote:

eytl wrote: For example (and I'm making these up):

Murray Walker: "And de Cesaris shuts the door on Mansell!"
James Hunt: "What an idiot!"

Well, you say you made that up but I'm sure if we collectively worked our way through the BBC archive from the 80s and early 90s, we could actually find a match for that quote!!

Found it!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPe0t02dWF4

I love the internet.

This was a GMIF1P clip back in the day too.

Martin Brundle discussing his new role at Autosport International. (Link takes you to Autosport.com, surprisingly!)

dr-baker wrote:Martin Brundle discussing his new role at Autosport International. (Link takes you to Autosport.com, surprisingly!)

He certainly seems very confident about it all. I'm warming to the idea more than I did when it was first announced - something else to look forward to when Bahrain comes around, anyway!

Just reviving this thread because a discussion about it has started elsewhere...

This team of Brundle and DC seems to be working. Brundle's more enthusiastic and less resigned, while DC is informative and getting settled in. Stay home, Jonathan Legard?

What Baker said!

I didn't feel annoyed by the commentary team today, so that must mean they did well. Like a good referee is one that you don't notice...

dr-baker wrote:This team of Brundle and DC seems to be working. Brundle's more enthusiastic and less resigned, while DC is informative and getting settled in. Stay home, Jonathan Legard?

Completely agree. We seem to finally have a strong pairing of commentators.

Well, I guess we're all entitled to our opinions, so I will dare to stick my neck out and say I was a little disappointed by Brundle and DC's first-up performance, although obviously they will need to take time to grow into their roles. Quite simply, Martin still sounded like an expert commentator who only really did "play-by-play" at the start and the finish. It's obviously a fine line how much description of what you can see on screen is required, but Brundle erred on the side of not saying enough, IMHO.

Also, they missed out on an awful lot. The new graphics showing rolling gaps at the bottom of the screen take time to get used to, but that was giving the key info as to who was catching whom, and whose tyres were going off etc. It took an eternity for them to notice that Alonso was slicing into Petrov's gap towards the end, for example. They weren't helped by the Australian directors who missed just as much.

But, as I said, they'll grow into it.