The Sportscar and Endurance Thread

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 03 Feb 2012, 18:54

mario wrote:It's an interesting theory, and it wouldn't be the first time that a car has been designed purely with the intention to smash a rival after being brusquely rejected - if that is the case, then we might have a few fireworks in the paddock as well as on the track.

Only thing that is lacking is someone in the Le Mans paddock calling himself "Best In The World" despite retiring, and we'd be having ourselves a real-life F1RWRS. :lol:

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 09 Feb 2012, 03:32

Klon wrote:Only thing that is lacking is someone in the Le Mans paddock calling himself "Best In The World"

CM Punk?

Anyways, the ALMS Sebring test is this week. And Muscle Milk Cytosport has their LMP1 HPD and LMPC Oreca there. The team's colors makes for some great liveries. The first pic is of the HPD, bit blurry.

This is their LMPC car.

I like what i see. Everything is looking good for the first round of the WEC and ALMS!

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 09 Feb 2012, 03:48

Does this mean there's no Aston-Lola Prototype this year?

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 09 Feb 2012, 03:50

The ALMS is allowing the old LMP1 regs for one more year, but i guess it's better to run to the new regs. Dyson is getting new Lolas, too. I will miss the old girl though, even though I don't like the look of the headlights.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 09 Feb 2012, 04:01

oh, well. will the Aston v12 still be used in any chassis?

Post by **mario** » 09 Feb 2012, 08:04

nome66 wrote:oh, well. will the Aston v12 still be used in any chassis?

Certainly not at Le Mans according to the entry list - only Judd and Mazda engines are being used by the independents, whilst back in the GT class the factory team are planning on using the V8 Vantage. It is possible that in the future we might see the Aston V12 return to the GT class - the GT3 version of the V12 Vantage which is due to be launched this year, so a GTE version could well be developed for future use.
Indirectly, though, Aston Martin is providing the means for a couple of outfits to race by licensing out their chassis technology - Racecar Engineering has revealed that the Pescarolo 03 that will compete at Le Mans will be using a chassis from the AMR-One, though the rest of the car is being scrapped (Henri Pescarolo himself declared that the chassis of the AMR-One was superb - which ties in with the reports that the car had very good mechanical grip - but the rest of the car was simply not up to scratch). http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... pescarolo/

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 09 Feb 2012, 12:35

nome66 wrote:oh, well. will the Aston v12 still be used in any chassis?

The ALMS have a bit of leeway with the ACO rules and have been thin prototypes in recent years, so if anyone was intent on running an old spec engine, ALMS would be their best bet. ALMS COO Scot Elkins mentioned that prototype entries are up, so perhaps there are one or two Aston V12s in there.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 10 Feb 2012, 02:09

Heres a better photo of Muscle Milk's new HPD.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 10 Feb 2012, 02:27

so what kind of engine is that new Muscle Milk HPD running?

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 10 Feb 2012, 10:20

Its the ARX-03a, which the the P1 version, so its running a 3.4L V8 similar to the one they've been running since 2007.

The P2 version is the ARX-03b, which runs a production based 2.8L Twin Turbo V6. The two cars are outwardly very similar, you have to look for the details (periscope turbo inlets on the P2 are the biggest give away).

HPD have really stepped up their program this year, running six cars (plus one engine supply) in the various series.

Post by **mario** » 10 Feb 2012, 15:30

It looks like Toyota have been fairly active in recent days - they have just announced the driver line up for the second works car, with Hiroaki Ishiura (a Super GT driver) being joined by Davidson and Buemi. Now, Davidson is a fairly logical choice - he has racked up quite a lot of experience at Peugeot and was Wurz's team mate at Le Mans, so it's not surprising that he has followed Wurz to Toyota - but Buemi is perhaps a slightly more surprising choice. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97474

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 15 Feb 2012, 18:41

The FIA have made rules changes to allow Toyota to compete for the World Championship.

Only the top finisher will score manufacturer points (Toyota are only running one car) and only the best 6 results will count for the championship (out of 8 rounds, Toyota are only contesting 7.)

A nice "thank you" from the FIA to Toyota for saving the series, hopefully they will also do a better job of equalising the Diesel/Petrol equation than the ACO ever did, the Diesels still have larger air restrictors to go with their larger engine capactiy despite their obvious superiority.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 15 Feb 2012, 19:27

here's some music for you all to enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqB2oOA2ezA

who's car is at 2:25 ?

Post by **mario** » 15 Feb 2012, 19:40

IdeFan wrote:The FIA have made rules changes to allow Toyota to compete for the World Championship.

Only the top finisher will score manufacturer points (Toyota are only running one car) and only the best 6 results will count for the championship (out of 8 rounds, Toyota are only contesting 7.)

A nice "thank you" from the FIA to Toyota for saving the series, hopefully they will also do a better job of equalising the Diesel/Petrol equation than the ACO ever did, the Diesels still have larger air restrictors to go with their larger engine capactiy despite their obvious superiority.

It would be interesting to see if the FIA can do something to sort out the equalisation problem, though the ACO would probably resent what it would see as interference from the FIA in its affairs (OK, nominally the ACO is a member organisation of the FIA but in reality it has lead a semi-independent existence for a number of years now).
The other problem might be whether the ACO alliance is willing to stand fast against Audi if Audi starts to become more assertive in its recent demands for reforming the regulations - Audi may well believe that it can potentially call the ACO's bluff with a threat to quit, as that would threaten the existence of the WEC altogether. Audi are currently pushing the ACO very hard for concessions - a reduction in the minimum weight, for example, is one of their recent demands, and their policy recently has been for an aggressive liberalisation of the regulations, something the ACO has robustly refused on cost grounds (even Audi admits that their proposals would lead to a sharp increase in costs).

As I understand things though, it looks like the draft regulations that the ACO produced towards the end of last year will not be revised ahead of the start of the WEC (also available via the FIA's website http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulati ... a-wec.aspx ), so for 2012 at least the petrol-diesel equivalence formula is unlikely to change. The other potential complication could be the entry of Porsche into the LMP1 class, because the VW Group could potentially find itself in a situation where the diesel-petrol equivalence formula could be a real headache (because shifting the balance in either direction favours one part of the company but not the other part).

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 16 Feb 2012, 02:34

nome66 wrote:
who's car is at 2:25 ?

That is the WEC Pecom Racing Oreca 03.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Feb 2012, 10:40

Good news for a certain member of this forum...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 24 Feb 2012, 22:42

Entry list for Sebring

I count 61 cars, its going to be one hell of a race, although the ALMS prototypes are looking a bit think on the ground...

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 25 Feb 2012, 01:42

ALMS without Risi for Sebring

Hopefully they get enough funds, the ALMS fraternity won't be the same.

Post by **mario** » 25 Feb 2012, 16:50

RealRacingRoots wrote:ALMS without Risi for Sebring

Hopefully they get enough funds, the ALMS fraternity won't be the same.

Now that is a bit surprising - normally Risi would be one of the stalwarts of the ALMS, particularly for what is considered to be one of the most prestigious events on the ALMS calendar. I hope that this is only a one off absence...

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 25 Feb 2012, 20:45

http://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/

Live online coverage of the Bathurst 12 Hour race, started in the dead of night. I believe the last two hours are being shown on "Speed", unsure if this is American Speed or Australian Speed (yes it does exist)

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 28 Feb 2012, 19:57

20 years ago, things were oh so disappointing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2fEHAaa ... re=related

8 Cars
Tedious comments about who was going to win the race, and who was going to be the main contenders for the win...

...and James Allen.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 28 Feb 2012, 21:27

Hopefully the FIA don't repeat the same mistakes again, they need to learn that manufacturers go racing when it suits them, there is no point in pandering to them because no matter how much the rules favour them they will still up and leave when times are tough (look at Peugeot). The privateers are there for the sport, they are there because racing is their business, if you want a series to stay strong in the long term you need to ensure that the privateers can be competitive.

With the cost capped LMP2s and the GT class the series is inherently stronger than a prototype only series, but the Diesel/Petrol balance in LMP1 still needs to be addressed, if Audi or Toyota were to pull the plug the series would be in trouble, the "two manufacturer" clause that cropped up when Peugeot withdrew could be a serious stumbling block in the future.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 28 Feb 2012, 22:30

what we need is a Brawn GP LMP car.
there's your competitive privateer.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Feb 2012, 20:53

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/audi-r18 ... o-4858154/

Weirdly I kinda like this new r18 e-tron quattro. Perhaps it is because of the livery...

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 29 Feb 2012, 22:57

It has that Modernised version American Quattro in Trans-Am livery look about it...

Audi Lineups for the Le Mans 24 Hours (Taken from Radio Le Mans)

1. Marcel Fässler (CH)/André Lotterer (D)/Benoît Tréluyer (F), Audi R18 e-tron quattro

2. Dindo Capello (I)/Tom Kristensen (DK)/Allan McNish (GB), Audi R18 e-tron quattro

3. Timo Bernhard (D)/Romain Dumas (F)/Loïc Duval (F), Audi R18 ultra

4. Marco Bonanomi (I)/Oliver Jarvis (GB)/Mike Rockenfeller (D), Audi R18 ultra

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 01 Mar 2012, 11:54

Nice to see Dindo back for another year, I heard that 2011 was supposed to be his last but thanks to McNish's crash he didn't even get to drive the car during the race.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 02 Mar 2012, 12:56

The deltawing has hit the track...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 05 Mar 2012, 20:43

Couple of updates today: Lola have unveiled their new LMP1, the B12/60:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97855

It looks quite similar to the aero (and wide front) update the Rebellion Lolas recieved last year, but with the mandatory 2012 aero changes. The car pictured is the first Dyson car powered by a Mazda 4cl In-line Turbo, which will race in two weeks at Sebring. Rebellion will use their 2011 car (under a rules waver) at Sebring and will run two Toyota powered (but not the same engine as the TS030) 2012 cars for the first time at the Spa WEC round, Dyson have a second car coming which will presumably run in the ALMS sometime before Le Mans.

Not to be upstaged, Audi have released a "Launch Trailer" for the new Hybrid R18, some pretty cool old footage there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7kNQSWOFo&feature=share

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 05 Mar 2012, 20:46

Everything is coming together nicely for the ALMS and WEC, ELMS however, oh dear..

Post by **mario** » 06 Mar 2012, 09:35

IdeFan wrote:Couple of updates today: Lola have unveiled their new LMP1, the B12/60:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97855

It looks quite similar to the aero (and wide front) update the Rebellion Lolas recieved last year, but with the mandatory 2012 aero changes. The car pictured is the first Dyson car powered by a Mazda 4cl In-line Turbo, which will race in two weeks at Sebring. Rebellion will use their 2011 car (under a rules waver) at Sebring and will run two Toyota powered (but not the same engine as the TS030) 2012 cars for the first time at the Spa WEC round, Dyson have a second car coming which will presumably run in the ALMS sometime before Le Mans.

Not to be upstaged, Audi have released a "Launch Trailer" for the new Hybrid R18, some pretty cool old footage there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7kNQSWOFo&feature=share

You can add to that that Audi's R18 features a first for Endurance Racing - it has been confirmed that the R18's gearbox casing will be carbon fibre, drawing on the current designs favoured by some teams in F1 (you can check the news on mulsannecorner.com for confirmation of that).
It's not the only area where Audi has drawn on the knowledge of F1 teams - the hybrid version of the R18 will use an electro-mechanical flywheel storage system developed by Williams Hybrid Power (one of the spin off companies from the Williams team), based around the flywheel system Williams developed but chose not to use for their KERS in F1. You have to say that this partnership with Williams is about the closest that something designed by Williams is likely to get to winning something this year... http://www.f1technical.net/news/17095

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 06 Mar 2012, 19:12

RealRacingRoots wrote:Everything is coming together nicely for the ALMS and WEC, ELMS however, oh dear..

The ELMS does seem somewhat redundant, the WEC feels like an expanded LMS and almost all of the entrants are LMS regulars, the decision not to have an overlap between the WEC and ELMS like the ILMC did in 2011 has robbed the ELMS of many of its entrants and its two best races (Spa and Silverstone).

My best guess why the didn't just scrap the ELMS is that the FIA didn't want a spec series running in the world championship (LMPC) and the ACO didn't want to scrap LMPC or run it on its own/as a support race. The presence of LMPC and GTC in the ALMS may have also contributed to the WEC not including Petit Le Mans, which has established itself as the third most important ACO sanctioned race and (IMO) should definitely be part of the World Championship.

The ALMS has always had a particular character of its own and is capable of running alongside a World Championship, but I don't think the ELMS has that same character, especially when its robbed of tracks like Spa and Silverstone and teams like Pescarolo and Rebellion.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 06 Mar 2012, 19:36

It will take time before the ELMS stabilizies, since the way it was before the WEC was so successful since the series began. I like what they are doing opening up a GTC class, but the only full time entry packed up and went to the Blancpain Endurance Series instead. But I won't open up a can of worms in the FIA-SRO-ACO debate. If they make the racing more appealing, and run with the WEC, they should get more entries in a few years. And mind you, aren't they trying to get a Asian Le Mans Series going too? Talk about a lot on one's plate and not having the time to work it all out.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 12 Mar 2012, 22:04

Andy Blackmore, creator of Spotterguides, has unveiled the 64 cars to look out for at Sebring this weekend...

http://www.spotterguides.com/wp-content ... sg_Sh1.jpg

Yes thats right...

http://www.spotterguides.com/wp-content ... sg_Sh2.jpg

SIXTY FOUR!!!

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 13 Mar 2012, 00:34

sooo rebellion are running Lotus Badging with Toyota motors..... Just like the actual road cars! ha!
there is also another team running lotus badging but with lotus motors in the LMP2 class.....erm, *cough*Bahar-Toleman.
what does need to happen is Ferrari need to bring this beast to the states for the 12h.

it just needs to happen!

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 13 Mar 2012, 02:45

nome66 wrote:sooo rebellion are running Lotus Badging with Toyota motors..... Just like the actual road cars! ha!
there is also another team running lotus badging but with lotus motors in the LMP2 class.....erm, *cough*Bahar-Toleman.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/279961/news_lotus_models_temporarily_on_hold.html

I honestly wonder what rock Mr.Bahar lives under. All this motorsport involvement in Indy, Le Mans (in three classes now!), and F1 really makes me wonder if Bahar knows that there could be a deep financial hole he may be entering Lotus very soon..

This is getting out of hand.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 13 Mar 2012, 02:55

Although the article does state the 3 month lockdown is simply to comply with Malaysian law, so activity will be resumed once that period is over. I do agree it's all a little bit over optimistic though!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 13 Mar 2012, 05:35

RealRacingRoots wrote:
nome66 wrote:sooo rebellion are running Lotus Badging with Toyota motors..... Just like the actual road cars! ha!
there is also another team running lotus badging but with lotus motors in the LMP2 class.....erm, *cough*Bahar-Toleman.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/279961/news_lotus_models_temporarily_on_hold.html

I honestly wonder what rock Mr.Bahar lives under. All this motorsport involvement in Indy, Le Mans (in three classes now!), and F1 really makes me wonder if Bahar knows that there could be a deep financial hole he may be entering Lotus very soon..

This is getting out of hand.

I think everyone's been expecting Mr Bahar to take the entire Malaysian car industry down to the fiery depths of hell with him since about the beginning of last year really :lol:

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 13 Mar 2012, 17:32

Disappointed by the Rebellion/Lotus linkup, I always thought they had one of the better looking liveries on the grid, and while the black and gold doesn't look too shabby, we've already got a black and gold lola run by Kolles and there will be a couple of black and gold GT Lotuses too.

Also on the livery front, the addition of the Gulf Racing Middle East Lolas means there's also a few too many Gulf blue and orange cars on the grid. Again its not a bad livery but with 4 prototypes plus the GT astons its a bit overboard.

In other news, the deltawing had its proper launch today, with the announcement that the engine will be badged as a Nissan. Despite what the press releases are implying, the engine itself is rumoured to be the RML developed 1.6L I4 Turbo from the Cruze WTCC car, with RML (who aren't running a sportscar program this year) also supplying the crew for Le Mans. Its unclear at this stage to what extent Highcroft Racing is still involved, but they laid off almost all of their staff late last year so any involvement must be restricted to a management role.

The autosport article also has onboard footage of the car testing and it seems to be cornering rapidly! I initially didn't like the Deltawing but its turning out to be a really interesting project and I hope they meet their goal of running between LMP1 and LMP2 pace.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 14 Mar 2012, 02:47

i like the livery from last year. reminds me of Nintendo.
btw::
i noticed that there is a "GTE" class with Pro and Am. are these cars the same ones that run the Grand-Am series?
i saw that the GT Corvettes had different rear ends than the GTE 'Vettes, which had Grand-Am rear ends.
also what would be a giveaway is the Michael Waltrip Racing team Ferrari

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 14 Mar 2012, 03:07

nome66 wrote:are these cars the same ones that run the Grand-Am series?

Most Grand-Am GT cars are tube chassis, outside of the new Audi R8, Ferrari 458 and Porsche GT3s.

Disapointing i know. GT3 in SCCA World Challenge soon please.