Hamilton done for dodgy driving...

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 26 Mar 2010, 14:52

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82412

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 26 Mar 2010, 15:05

They should summon him to court 5 minutes before the race!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 26 Mar 2010, 15:22

Good! I mean, it's dangerous, but I am glad every now and then a normal person pops in from below the Terminator-like features. I wonder if it's the Oz air, or the being upside down that causes the chip to fail.

Gilles27 · Post by **Gilles27** » 26 Mar 2010, 15:33

I just wish he hadn't apologised. I remember the stories about Gilles Villeneuve driving from Monaco to Maranello in a 328, although I doubt the Italian Police would have impounded Gilles' car if they had caught him!
Sounds like the Australian cop just wanted to make a name for himself. I can understand why many F1 drivers are driven on the roads rather than driving themselves these days.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2010, 16:56

He's NOT the Messiah, hes a VERY naughty BOY!!!

Listening to the BBC Radio 5 and Red-Button commentary team they were mentioning the amount of drivers who are aware of the dangers on the roads and their imaginations of crashing heavily and therefore they dont drive quick on the roads, F1 sometimes needs "bad boys" but no matter how good Lewis is on the track (SOMETIMES) he can't pull off a "bad boy" image.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 26 Mar 2010, 20:12

I think its time for the FIA to take firm action over race drivers misdeamenours on the public roads by suspending racing licences if a driver ends up gettiung banned from driving on the road.....

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 26 Mar 2010, 21:49

This story is simply hilarious, if you ask me.

Although given the story, I think it must have been on the exit road which extends beyond turn 13, so he might have still been within the circuit precinct.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&q=lakeside%20drive%20melbourne&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Post by **mario** » 26 Mar 2010, 23:14

WeirdKerr wrote:I think its time for the FIA to take firm action over race drivers misdemeanours on the public roads by suspending racing licences if a driver ends up getting banned from driving on the road.....

Was it actually on a public road though?

eytl wrote:This story is simply hilarious, if you ask me.

Although given the story, I think it must have been on the exit road which extends beyond turn 13, so he might have still been within the circuit precinct.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&q=lakeside%20drive%20melbourne&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

If it is the case (I would presume that part of the circuit precinct would be the private property of the circuit owners), that would mean that the offence occurred on private property, not on a public road.

Certainly, it is foolish of him, but Hamilton is by no means the first race driver to have been a little over exuberant on the roads. After all, we recently had Schumacher get in trouble for a number of motoring offences (such as borrowing a taxi off a taxi driver to drive to an airport when late - which earned Schumacher a fine for driving a vehicle he was uninsured for). What about Button getting fined for speeding in a BMW courtesy car back in his BMW-Williams days? Even Kimi has bent the rules at times, although he got away with it (I recall seeing a clip where he is being interviewed by a Finnish journalist, who asks him at one point what was the first Ferrari that Kimi drove - if I recall well, he said that it was a F430 (owned by a friend) at about 120mph, on a public road).

And those are just a few of the drivers - I would bet that a number of the drivers have bent the rules of the road (in the same way that many members of the public do on a regular basis). Not that this is excusable - it isn't - it's just that it is not the first time, and won't be the last, that one of the drivers gets into trouble.

Stewart · Post by **Stewart** » 26 Mar 2010, 23:16

eytl wrote:Although given the story, I think it must have been on the exit road which extends beyond turn 13, so he might have still been within the circuit precinct.

According to the Police, he was turning out of Lakeside Drive onto Fitzroy Street when he 'deliberately lost traction'.

Timed spectacularly to coincide with the launch of the FIA's 'Make Roads Safe' campaign in F1 this weekend!

Post by **Nuppiz** » 26 Mar 2010, 23:37

mario wrote:And those are just a few of the drivers - I would bet that a number of the drivers have bent the rules of the road (in the same way that many members of the public do on a regular basis). Not that this is excusable - it isn't - it's just that it is not the first time, and won't be the last, that one of the drivers gets into trouble.

I read about two years ago about Heikki Kovalainen. He openly admitted that he had "practiced" racing on public roads when he was younger. Even if they were northeastern Finnish backroads with very little traffic, it's still very dangerous to drive 150+ km/h there, on a gravel surface.

Nonetheless, we do have to remember that celebrities act as role models to many people. That's why they should refrain from stupidities as much as possible.

This isn't the first time that Hamilton has had an off-track driving incident. A few years ago, he drove in the back of an Alfa Romeo solely because of a momentary lapse in concentration, but luckily the speed was only about 20-30 km/h by then. And in late 2007, he was given a one month driving ban and his Mercedes-Benz CLK was impounded for speeding at 196 km/h on a French motorway. So he's a pretty bad boy when it comes to driving on the public roads.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 26 Mar 2010, 23:46

WeirdKerr wrote:I think its time for the FIA to take firm action over race drivers misdeamenours on the public roads by suspending racing licences if a driver ends up gettiung banned from driving on the road.....

I don't see any reason for the FIA to get involved, if its on a public road its for the Police (not the band) and the civil courts to decide, remember you don't actually need a road licence to get a competition licence....

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 26 Mar 2010, 23:48

but as ive said before loss of road licence should equal loss of racing licence (driving bans should apply whether on public roads or race tracks, fields or other private land)

Post by **mario** » 27 Mar 2010, 00:47

Nuppiz wrote:
mario wrote:And those are just a few of the drivers - I would bet that a number of the drivers have bent the rules of the road (in the same way that many members of the public do on a regular basis). Not that this is excusable - it isn't - it's just that it is not the first time, and won't be the last, that one of the drivers gets into trouble.

I read about two years ago about Heikki Kovalainen. He openly admitted that he had "practiced" racing on public roads when he was younger. Even if they were northeastern Finnish backroads with very little traffic, it's still very dangerous to drive 150+ km/h there, on a gravel surface.

Nonetheless, we do have to remember that celebrities act as role models to many people. That's why they should refrain from stupidities as much as possible.

This isn't the first time that Hamilton has had an off-track driving incident. A few years ago, he drove in the back of an Alfa Romeo solely because of a momentary lapse in concentration, but luckily the speed was only about 20-30 km/h by then. And in late 2007, he was given a one month driving ban and his Mercedes-Benz CLK was impounded for speeding at 196 km/h on a French motorway. So he's a pretty bad boy when it comes to driving on the public roads.

True, which is why I said that his actions were not excusable (since there are going to be quite a few young fools who think that they have the talent of Hamilton behind the wheel, when they are sorely mistaken). Now, an accident due to human error is more defensible (such as the first accident you mention, when he ran into the back of somebody - pretty much anybody could do that) - but something where he has made an active decision to misbehave can't be justified.
That said, however, I disagree with WeirdKerr that this should lead to his licence being revoked - for a start, the offence is not serious enough to warrant anything more then a fine (or at least that is what the Victoria Police are implying). This falls within the remit of the local authorities - the offence took place outside of the jurisdiction of the FIA, so you would have to argue whether they would actually have the legal power to do anything anyway (as the Flavio v FIA case showed, the FIA could end up in legal difficulties if it tries to impose a punishment which is outside of it's remit, or runs against the law as practised in that country).

SuperAguri · Post by **SuperAguri** » 27 Mar 2010, 04:18

When I first saw the headline I thought the police are a little harsh, he was quick but not so quick that the Webber fan club would have reported him to the police. :p

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 Mar 2010, 07:57

Stewart wrote:Timed spectacularly to coincide with the launch of the FIA's 'Make Roads Safe' campaign in F1 this weekend!

This puts a focus on the link between F1 and road safety. How can a sport which encourages young men to drive cars at the absolute limit be a focal point for road safety campaigns? Mixed messages...

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 27 Mar 2010, 08:23

Gilles27 wrote:Sounds like the Australian cop just wanted to make a name for himself.

Why? He received exactly the legislated punishment; you think he should have been treated more leniently than someone else because of his celebrity?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Mar 2010, 08:32

noisebox wrote:
Stewart wrote:Timed spectacularly to coincide with the launch of the FIA's 'Make Roads Safe' campaign in F1 this weekend!

This puts a focus on the link between F1 and road safety. How can a sport which encourages young men to drive cars at the absolute limit be a focal point for road safety campaigns? Mixed messages...

"Make roads safe: ban powerful engines"? Daily Mirror-reading crew, it's your moment in the spotlight.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 23 May 2010, 05:16

The saga continues:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/lewis-hamilton-to-face-court-over-aussie-burnout-stunt-20100523-w3kv.html

Lewis Hamilton, MBE, official 2008 Formula One World Champion, and soon-to-be convicted Australian criminal?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 May 2010, 07:56

You can bet they'll push this one as hard and as far as they can. If they can claim Hamilton's scalp, they're going to see it as a major coup and push it in road safety propaganda.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 09:20

Captain Hammer wrote:You can bet they'll push this one as hard and as far as they can. If they can claim Hamilton's scalp, they're going to see it as a major coup and push it in road safety propaganda.

Oh yeah. Land him a HUGE fine, or maybe even some civic service, if that's possible. Make an example of him. Then, the FIA Road Safety campaign may start to make sense.

MinardiFan95 · Post by **MinardiFan95** » 23 May 2010, 10:14

eytl wrote:The saga continues:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/lewis-hamilton-to-face-court-over-aussie-burnout-stunt-20100523-w3kv.html

Lewis Hamilton, MBE, official 2008 Formula One World Champion, and soon-to-be convicted Australian criminal?

You have to remember that this was in Victoria, a state where you can now be fined $358 just for leaving your car doors unlocked.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 23 May 2010, 10:31

I hope they make an example of him and throw the book at him.... custodial sentence...

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2010, 10:57

MinardiFan95 wrote:
eytl wrote:The saga continues:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/lewis-hamilton-to-face-court-over-aussie-burnout-stunt-20100523-w3kv.html

Lewis Hamilton, MBE, official 2008 Formula One World Champion, and soon-to-be convicted Australian criminal?

You have to remember that this was in Victoria, a state where you can now be fined $358 just for leaving your car doors unlocked.

Being fined for leaving your car unlocked - that is a joke, right?
I'm a bit surprised that the authorities in Victoria have served Hamilton with a court summons, since I thought that the authorities had laid the matter to rest by fining him during the race weekend itself. Sounds to me like it is a bit of a publicity stunt by the authorities - their way of telling the locals that they will pursue someone and bring them to book, regardless of who they are.

WeirdKerr wrote:I hope they make an example of him and throw the book at him.... custodial sentence...

Why? Does the offence even allow for a custodial sentence? As far as I am aware, the law does not allow for a custodial sentence.
No offence to those calling for a harsh punishment - since I myself feel that, as he has broken the law, he should be called to task, although in proportion to the crime - but would you be calling for such harsh punishment if it was your favourite driver who had been caught?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 23 May 2010, 12:01

I think it was well enough with the fine; however, depriving him of his road driving license for a month would not be out of place.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 12:07

Phoenix wrote:I think it was well enough with the fine; however, depriving him of his road driving license for a month would not be out of place.

Was it Mansell who lost his license for a year for speeding, some time after becoming WDC? Harsh sentences to a well-known figure could be a nice deterrent. Having them visit Hospitals where people who suffered crashes are recovering - the sort of thing judges sometimes use as penalty - could have an impact on him and, thanks to the platoon of journos following him, on more people as well. The law is the law.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 23 May 2010, 12:23

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I think it was well enough with the fine; however, depriving him of his road driving license for a month would not be out of place.

Was it Mansell who lost his license for a year for speeding, some time after becoming WDC? Harsh sentences to a well-known figure could be a nice deterrent. Having them visit Hospitals where people who suffered crashes are recovering - the sort of thing judges sometimes use as penalty - could have an impact on him and, thanks to the platoon of journos following him, on more people as well. The law is the law.

On a side note, I remember reading that Juan Manuel Fangio was opposed to an Argentinian law which denied driving licenses to those above 80 (including Fangio) in 1994. He expressed his contempt for that law by challenging Traffic Bureau personnel to a race between Buenos Aires and Mar del Plata, a 400km distance, in two hours or less. Just epic. The law then made an exception for him.

coops · Post by **coops** » 23 May 2010, 12:39

CarlosFerreira wrote:The law is the law.

Look out everyone! Its Judge Dredd!!!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 May 2010, 12:50

CarlosFerreira wrote:Oh yeah. Land him a HUGE fine, or maybe even some civic service, if that's possible. Make an example of him. Then, the FIA Road Safety campaign may start to make sense.

Oh I'm not talking about the FIA. I mean the VIctorian government. They'll push for a prosecution and they'll go further than they normally would for you or me the reason being that if they succeed in nabbing Hamilton, it's going to give them a lot of attention and ammunition for a road safety campaign of their own. Prosecuting someone for dangerous driving is fine - but they're not pushing for Hamilton because he was being an idiot they're pushing for Hamilton because getting him will mean political points for them.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 12:53

Captain Hammer wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Oh yeah. Land him a HUGE fine, or maybe even some civic service, if that's possible. Make an example of him. Then, the FIA Road Safety campaign may start to make sense.

Oh I'm not talking about the FIA. I mean the VIctorian government. They'll push for a prosecution and they'll go further than they normally would for you or me the reason being that if they succeed in nabbing Hamilton, it's going to give them a lot of attention and ammunition for a road safety campaign of their own. Prosecuting someone for dangerous driving is fine - but they're not pushing for Hamilton because he was being an idiot they're pushing for Hamilton because getting him will mean political points for them.

That was my point as well. Whatever is the (reasonable) maximum the law has in store for these cases, throw it at him.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 May 2010, 13:09

I hope they'll give him quite some jailtime, I want Gary Paffett in the car - his pit radio would be absolutely awesome, if the Valencia DTM race is the standard.

coops · Post by **coops** » 23 May 2010, 13:19

Klon wrote:I hope they'll give him quite some jailtime.

Thats mental. Time in prison for spinning his wheels?

Anyhoo. If the world goes mad and sends Hamilton to the clink he'd be only the second F1 driver I know to do so (the first being Bertie Gachot). Are there any other F1 pilots that have done time either during or after their career?

I seem to remember Scheckters lad being arrested for soliciting but he wasnt jailed, or was he?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 May 2010, 13:25

coops wrote:Thats mental. Time in prison for spinning his wheels?

As if that would be worst to come out of the Australian law system...

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 23 May 2010, 14:10

Klon wrote:
coops wrote:Thats mental. Time in prison for spinning his wheels?

As if that would be worst to come out of the Australian law system...

If Hammy gets jailed I promise to be the happiest man on the planet!

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2010, 15:29

coops wrote:
Klon wrote:I hope they'll give him quite some jailtime.

Thats mental. Time in prison for spinning his wheels?

Anyhoo. If the world goes mad and sends Hamilton to the clink he'd be only the second F1 driver I know to do so (the first being Bertie Gachot). Are there any other F1 pilots that have done time either during or after their career?

I seem to remember Scheckters lad being arrested for soliciting but he wasnt jailed, or was he?

I'll agree with you there - looking at the suggestions of others, Phoenix's suggestion of a temporary driving ban is sensible, and something that I would agree with. Getting Hamilton to work with a road safety charity, as part of a community service program - which could generate positive publicity for the FIA's road safety program - is, again, sensible, and actually constructive.
But sending him to jail? Disproportionate to the crime, I would say. If Joe Bloggs was caught doing a burn out there, then he wouldn't be sent to jail, so I wouldn't demand (as some here are doing) that Hamilton be sent to jail either.

As for drivers doing time, there aren't that many who have (at least recently). The closest that comes to mind immediately is Jos Verstappen, who was convicted last year of harassing his former wife and given a suspended jail sentence of three months http://www.duemotori.com/news/f1/32377_ ... ssault.php (and it wasn't the first time he was in trouble with the law - he also got away with a five year suspended sentence for assault, which left a man with a fractured skull, back in 2000 through an out of court settlement http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/998973.stm ).

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I think it was well enough with the fine; however, depriving him of his road driving license for a month would not be out of place.

Was it Mansell who lost his license for a year for speeding, some time after becoming WDC? Harsh sentences to a well-known figure could be a nice deterrent. Having them visit Hospitals where people who suffered crashes are recovering - the sort of thing judges sometimes use as penalty - could have an impact on him and, thanks to the platoon of journos following him, on more people as well. The law is the law.

I'm not sure if it was him - I've taken a quick look at the Wikipedia entry as a quick reference and it mentions nothing about a driving ban (if anything, the opposite, as it suggests that he was a Special Constable for the Devon Police in his younger years). Are you sure that you're not mixing it up with the joke that most police men would ask a young driver they had caught speeding "Who do you think you are - Nigel Mansell?" during the early 1990's?

Thinking about it, it might have been Senna who was caught doing that, as he was once caught speeding as he left Mclaren's headquarters. There is supposed to have been a moment where, as usual, the policeman knocked on the window, and said "Who do you think you are - Nigel Mansell?", to which he got the following reply "No, I'm Ayrton Senna" as he wound the window down.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 16:13

mario wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I think it was well enough with the fine; however, depriving him of his road driving license for a month would not be out of place.

Was it Mansell who lost his license for a year for speeding, some time after becoming WDC? Harsh sentences to a well-known figure could be a nice deterrent. Having them visit Hospitals where people who suffered crashes are recovering - the sort of thing judges sometimes use as penalty - could have an impact on him and, thanks to the platoon of journos following him, on more people as well. The law is the law.

I'm not sure if it was him - I've taken a quick look at the Wikipedia entry as a quick reference and it mentions nothing about a driving ban (if anything, the opposite, as it suggests that he was a Special Constable for the Devon Police in his younger years). Are you sure that you're not mixing it up with the joke that most police men would ask a young driver they had caught speeding "Who do you think you are - Nigel Mansell?" during the early 1990's?

Thinking about it, it might have been Senna who was caught doing that, as he was once caught speeding as he left Mclaren's headquarters. There is supposed to have been a moment where, as usual, the policeman knocked on the window, and said "Who do you think you are - Nigel Mansell?", to which he got the following reply "No, I'm Ayrton Senna" as he wound the window down.

Found it, was in 1998:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/49787.stm

Funny, I remember the joke between bikers that it once happened to Barry Sheene on the road. "Who do you think you are, son, Barry Sheene?" "Uh, yes..."

coops · Post by **coops** » 23 May 2010, 17:07

mario wrote: I wouldn't demand (as some here are doing) that Hamilton be sent to jail either.

[Editted bit]. C'mon why do you want the guy sent to prison? Because you dont like how he handles things or because he beat your most-favourite-ever driver. Grow up. Schumacher taking out Hill in 1994 brought me to tears but I never once hoped for bad things to happen to him. I wasnt one of those numbskulls who were happy when he broke his foot in 1999 either.

Perhaps you guys want Hamilton out of the way because you fear the competition he presents?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 17:16

Coops, I'm sorry for editting your post. I'm sorry for doing this publicly, but you don't provide your email. I don't know if your post violates the rules - probably not - but it would start a flaming war. Please email me for more details, if you disagree.

Again, sorry.

Cheers, Carlos

coops · Post by **coops** » 23 May 2010, 17:25

CarlosFerreira wrote:Coops, I'm sorry for editting your post.

No apology necessary, if I over-stepped the mark Im happy to be corrected.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 May 2010, 17:26

coops wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Coops, I'm sorry for editting your post.

No apology necessary, if I over-stepped the mark Im happy to be corrected.

It's all cool. 8-)

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 23 May 2010, 17:30

CarlosFerreira wrote:Coops, I'm sorry for editting your post. I'm sorry for doing this publicly, but you don't provide your email. I don't know if your post violates the rules - probably not - but it would start a flaming war. Please email me for more details, if you disagree.

Again, sorry.

Cheers, Carlos

Lemme guess, his original post was aimed at me?