Grand Prix Rejects

The less-angry cousin of Rantbox.

Currently watching the BBC online F1 Classic races, Monza 1991. And just pondered:

Wasn't James Hunt bloody awesome in his role as Murray's Sidekick.

...if it crosses your mind. Post it here

F1 stands at a cross-roads. It usefulness and relevance rely on it being somewhere between the bling of the 2000's and the privateer-trailer-park looks of the 1960's and 1970's.

If Ferrari got away with lying.

Shouldnt Hamilton's lie last year be reinstated?

is it a show or a sport.....if its a show.... can they do anybody for bringing it into disrepute.....

ADx_Wales wrote:The less-angry cousin of Rantbox.

Currently watching the BBC online F1 Classic races, Monza 1991. And just pondered:

Wasn't James Hunt bloody awesome in his role as Murray's Sidekick.

...if it crosses your mind. Post it here

Agreed, loved some of Hunts comments although never liked his vendetta against Patrese, especially after reading about the incident he blamed him for.

From watching the highlights on the bbc got me thinking that the early nineties were a golden age for F1, so much variety in car design, engines, technology, sadly all gone now.

Just today I was reading an Eddie Irvine interview in the latest issue of the Spanish F1 Racing. He called the Ferrari he drove in 1999 a snail and said it was good because it was reliable. Well what about Luca Badoer, then?

Do people hate Ferrari because of its success?

ADx_Wales wrote:If Ferrari got away with lying.

Shouldnt Hamilton's lie last year be reinstated?

The difference is that you can prove Hamilton lied, you couldn't prove in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt that Ferrari lied...

thehemogoblin wrote:Do people hate Ferrari because of its success?

Do people hate McLaren because of its success?

Do people hate Fernando because of his success?

Do people hate Lewis because of his success?

Everyone will find small things to point to each of F1's bête-noires, but the fact of the matter is success acts as a polarising factor. The most successful people are usually either loved or loathed.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:Do people hate Ferrari because of its success?

Do people hate McLaren because of its success?

Do people hate Fernando because of his success?

Do people hate Lewis because of his success?

Everyone will find small things to point to each of F1's bête-noires, but the fact of the matter is success acts as a polarising factor. The most successful people are usually either loved or loathed.

Usually both, by different factions.

Pulling out a "burn from the stern" performance on GP4 with the 2006 mod is alot harder than you think...

Just thought I'ld put that out there

We know Rosberg is a good driver. We also acknowledge the Mercedes isn't a bad car at all. You know what? On the back of last year's performance, I reckon they may CREAM Singapore this year.

CarlosFerreira wrote:We also acknowledge the Mercedes isn't a bad car at all.

But the Mercedes is as bad a car as everyone's saying it is. The only reasons they're up there are Rosberg and the Mercedes engine. I've read on here and possibly elsewhere that the problem is the balance of the car is completely at odds with both the drivers and the tyres (The same problem happened to an extent in the second half of 09 and from what I've heard they still can't solve the problem.)

Wizzie wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:We also acknowledge the Mercedes isn't a bad car at all.

But the Mercedes is as bad a car as everyone's saying it is. The only reasons they're up there are Rosberg and the Mercedes engine. I've read on here and possibly elsewhere that the problem is the balance of the car is completely at odds with both the drivers and the tyres (The same problem happened to an extent in the second half of 09 and from what I've heard they still can't solve the problem.)

It's still probably the fourth fastest car on the grid overall, depending on the circuit...

CarlosFerreira wrote:It's still probably the fourth fastest car on the grid overall, depending on the circuit...

I disagree, Renault are well ahead at the moment and even Williams are often quicker. Force India (well, Sutil) are sometimes quicker than Merc depending on the circuit, although they have dropped back recently.

Prepare to throw papayas.

Karun Chandhok is more awesome than Kamui Kobayashi.

redbulljack14 wrote:Prepare to throw papayas.

Karun Chandhok is more awesome than Kamui Kobayashi.

We grant you the benefit of doubt.

Phoenix wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:Prepare to throw papayas.

Karun Chandhok is more awesome than Kamui Kobayashi.

We grant you the benefit of doubt.

It is Chandhok after all.

Chandhok is the Indian Kobayashi.

That being said Kobayashi in The Usual Suspects was Indian.

Contains Swearing

thehemogoblin wrote:Do people hate Ferrari because of its success?

I resent all success, I don't like Ferrari cos they've won more than anyone else over the last decade, I didn't like Schumacher at all, but now he's not winning (especially during his retirement) I grew to like him.

I like watching anyone beat Red Bull, because it feels like they are the team to beat, and I like seeing the underdog win. Conversely, I like seeing Webber win because it seems like he shouldn't be beating Vettel.

I still like Jenson Button because I got the impression he was truly delighted to have won a title, realised that perhaps he shouldn't have, and doesn't take victory at all for granted.

I'm liking Hamilton a lot less these days because I get the impression he feels he should be winning, and any reason he doesn't win couldn't possibly be his fault. A second championship might tip him over into outright hatred.

CarlosFerreira wrote:We know Rosberg is a good driver. We also acknowledge the Mercedes isn't a bad car at all. You know what? On the back of last year's performance, I reckon they may CREAM Singapore this year.

It depends on the standards by which you judge them. By the standards of BAR and particularly Honda its a decent car, by the standards of the reigning world champions, its very poor. You have to remember that they have slipped from a part of the "big four" and podium contention (at least with Rosberg) to head of the midfield and often behind the Williams and particularly Kubica's Renault in less than a year.

With regards Singapore, i'd say RBR have the better shot, that car has been mighty at every kind of circuit, they've been quick at the tracks where they struggled last year (Monaco, Hungaroring, Spa) and even seem to be on the pace at Monza. The merc might be well suited to Singapore, but there no answer to the raw downforce of the RBR. Where McLaren and and Ferrari will be is harder to tell.

I got fed up of Ferrari's success, I hate their attempts to try not to lose lately. Fernando thinks he's still in the title hunt because he takes my F1 Finals concept as the actual series.

IdeFan wrote:You have to remember that they have slipped from a part of the "big four" and podium contention (at least with Rosberg) to head of the midfield and often behind the Williams and particularly Kubica's Renault in less than a year.

Don't forget Sutil's Force India

redbulljack14 wrote:

IdeFan wrote:You have to remember that they have slipped from a part of the "big four" and podium contention (at least with Rosberg) to head of the midfield and often behind the Williams and particularly Kubica's Renault in less than a year.

Don't forget Sutil's Force India

Mercedes are the new sauber ie start the year looking strong before slipping back into the depths of midfield by the end of the season.....

WeirdKerr wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:

IdeFan wrote:You have to remember that they have slipped from a part of the "big four" and podium contention (at least with Rosberg) to head of the midfield and often behind the Williams and particularly Kubica's Renault in less than a year.

Don't forget Sutil's Force India

Mercedes are the new sauber ie start the year looking strong before slipping back into the depths of midfield by the end of the season.....

Sauber often slipped back because they barely evolved the car over the course of the season. Mercedes just have a troublesome car.

Carlos Ferreira - Telling Colin Kolles to go home since 2010.

redbulljack14 wrote:Carlos Ferreira - Telling Colin Kolles to go home since 2010.

They should move the startline, and build a new pits at Monza before the Parabolica.

TimmyB wrote:

ADx_Wales wrote:If Ferrari got away with lying.

Shouldnt Hamilton's lie last year be reinstated?

The difference is that you can prove Hamilton lied, you couldn't prove in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt that Ferrari lied...

And Hamilton lied to try and have another competitor disqualified, which is far worse.

is it time to introduce a rule that the compulsory pit stop must be carried out before 80% race distance or something

WeirdKerr wrote:is it time to introduce a rule that the compulsory pit stop must be carried out before 80% race distance or something

It's time to introduce proper F1 tyres that degrade, or instead eliminate tyre changes altogether.

ADx_Wales wrote:They should move the startline, and build a new pits at Monza before the Parabolica.

Any particular reason why you think they should do that?

And on a pensive note, another note to add. During the pre-race build up, Sir J. Stewart was talking about changes in safety regulations, and was talking about the changes in the way that the drivers react. In particular, he pointed out that Moss mentioned that, in his day, no driver would have done anything like Schumacher's move in Hungary, and Jackie noted that they would have been much more careful in defending their position in his era as well.
As a result, he suggested that the increased safety of the cars has created a new problem - that the drivers feel that they can take ever bigger liberties with each other and the track, because if they crash, it doesn't matter. By comparison, if you go back, say, 20 or 30 years, a heavy crash would be much more likely to result in a serious ijury, or even prove fatal - so the drivers would not push each other around on the track, as much because they knew that they could be seriously injured (as well as the other driver).

I hope Mercedes and Williams build competitive cars next year. Just so Schumacher can have another go at the title, only to be completely crushed by Barrichello. But is Rubens so old Hulkenberg would beat him?

I think someone should have reminded this earlier...


HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KOBAYASHI KAMUI!

And tomorrow is Kuwashima Masami's birthday, according to Stats F1.

Vitantonio Liuzzi has probably just given up his last, best chance to be unrejectified with the twelfth place at Monza.

Does anyone know what the longest contract a driver has signed with a team is? Off the top of my head I assume a 5 year deal.

F1000X wrote:Does anyone know what the longest contract a driver has signed with a team is? Off the top of my head I assume a 5 year deal.

Hamilton signed a 5 year extension in Jan 2008. Runs up to end of 2012. Presume he initially signed for 2007 only.

F1000X wrote:Does anyone know what the longest contract a driver has signed with a team is? Off the top of my head I assume a 5 year deal.

Button signed a 5 year deal with Honda and co at the end of 2005...

Wizzie wrote:

F1000X wrote:Does anyone know what the longest contract a driver has signed with a team is? Off the top of my head I assume a 5 year deal.

Button signed a 5 year deal with Honda and co at the end of 2005...

Served 4 of them I guess.

shinji wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

F1000X wrote:Does anyone know what the longest contract a driver has signed with a team is? Off the top of my head I assume a 5 year deal.

Button signed a 5 year deal with Honda and co at the end of 2005...

Served 4 of them I guess.

According to the accounts filed at Companies House by Brawn GP (for the year running from 2008 to 2009), Honda appear to have terminated their existing contract with Button at the end of 2008, paying him £10 million as a "Contract Settlement Fee" (which would presumably be the wages which he would have otherwise received had Honda continued racing). http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/09/14/braw ... t-in-2009/
I believe that Button then signed a one year contract with Brawn GP, along with Rubens, although Button was the only one on a fixed salary (and that was simply because he got his contract in first) - Rubens was paid on a race by race basis, depending on the number of points he scored.

In fact, the accounts make for interesting reading - Brawn GP, according to that article, made a total profit of £98.5 million (presumably pre-tax), although most of that appears to be the cash that Honda gave Brawn to take over the team and keep it running, thereby ensuring that it would not have to pay for ending the contracts early (Honda gave them £92.5 million).
The company directors (Brawn, Fry, Kerr (finance director), Marsden (HR), McGrory (legal services) and Gordon Blair (role unspecified)) received £8.4 million in salaries - with the lions share (£4.7 million) going to just one director (thought to be Brawn, who was the most senior director). However, only Brawn remains on the board of directors now, as the rest of the directors resigned in December, following the deal with Mercedes (to be replaced with three directors from Mercedes, including Haug, and two from Aabar).
In addition to that salary, Brawn GP also paid a £20 million dividend to the shareholders at the end of the year to Aabar, Mercedes and the board of directors, with Aabar and Mercedes receiving 75.1% of that between them.

Looking at those figures, it does seem that the team was not as short of funding as perhaps the media portrayed them as being - they finished the year with around £78 million, which is fairly healthy (bear in mind that Brawn's profits are about the same as the entire revenue of HRT and Virgin Racing combined). There might be a few disgruntled former employees wondering if their redundancy package was a little meagre, given those figures...

P.S. So, 1000 posts now under my belt - unfortunately, I've got a bit too much free time on my hands, it seems...

In celebration of Mario's 1000th post, I feel obliged to post this song.