Ferrari vs. Williams

[tristan1117]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77551

Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play"

[rffp]

Didn't in 2005 Ferrari veto every solution proposed to solve the USA GP imbroglio? They were in their right to do so, but they were quite cynical in their press release after that race. At that time, they did not think of fair play or what the repercussions would be in the USA if such farce would take place, as it indeed did. They followed the regulations, just as Williams are doing. But I believe that Williams might be using this veto to also to exact some vendetta at all the stunts Ferrari has done in the past seasons.
Fair play? After Austria 2002? Give me a break! Perhaps, Luca should watch that race again and then rethink of their use of the term "fair play"!

[bigslydoc]

Think Williams are completely within their rights to refuse Ferrari's request. Schumacher is one of the best car testers and developers there was. If they wanted one someone that knew the car they should have hired Luca Badoer or Marc Gene. They chose Schumacher over them or any number of drivers with experience of 2009-spec F1 cars. Their fault and they shouldn't get special compensation for it. Just another example of Ferrari thinking there is one rule for them and another for everyone else! Fair play to Frank and Patrick I say!

[jackanderton]

One of P-F1.com's hacks thought even allowing him a day of testing would provide the level of information about the car that would amount to giving Ferrari an unfair advantage.

I guess some team had to step up, and seen as Red Bull/Toro Rosso have joined in with a much flimsier conceit, I'm not sure why Williams are copping all the flak.

As for the comments about Williams' recent performances in Formula 1- a)what does that have to do with anything b)they've been better than Ferrari this year on a more level playing field and having Nakajima! c)Not in FOTA isn't the same as Not in F1

[dr-baker]

Hallelujah! I have found a place where people are talking sense! Ferrari have always tried to twist the rules to their own advantage on so many occasions, it makes a pleasant change to see the team who have the third-highest number of GP wins standing up to them.

[MaxZero]

mmm, a typical Ferarri strop.

Shumaker is skilled enough to get to grips with the new cars over the free practice periods, resulting in a period of immense gain if he used them for anything other than familiarization. If they wanted to develop in this time period they should have used a test driver.

[CarlosFerreira]

I am happy to see the early-to-mid-1990's rivalry flaring up again. If only Nakajima would step up his game, Williams could be challenging Ferrari for 3rd in the Championship...

[Nin13]

Nice article on FERRARI V/S WILLIAMS, their past fights!!
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/04/h ... s-ferrari/

1997 European Grand Prix, Jerez
No-one’s going to forget this one in a hurry. Schumacher was leading the race and on course to beat second-placed Jacques Villeneuve to the world championship. But after the final round of pit stops the Williams driver suddenly began catching Schumacher and launched an attack at the Curva Dry Sack. Schumacher swung in and the pair collided – but Villeneuve survived, while the Ferrari driver slid off the track and out of the race. The FIA confiscated Schumacher’s points for the season – a penalty widely regarded as far too lenient – and Ferrari hit back at Williams by claiming they had colluded with McLaren to rig the race finish.

1998 Canadian Grand Prix
When Schumacher shot out of the pits during the race he failed to notice Heinz-Harald Frentzen’s Williams on the circuit, and shoved him off into the barriers. Patrick Head stormed over to the Ferrari pit and vowed to see the driver serve a lengthy ban for reckless driving. The stewards penalised Schumacher but he won the race nevertheless.

1999 Belgian Grand Prix
With Schumacher injured, Ferrari were striving to keep Eddie Irvine in the championship hunt. The McLarens were running away with the race, and it fell to Irvine’s team mate Mika Salo to help Irvine into the best result he could manage. Salo held back Williams’ Ralf Schumacher to the tune of nine seconds in the middle of the race, allowing Irvine to get out of the pits ahead of the Williams driver. Patrick Head blew another gasket, but once again there was nothing he could do about the situation.

2003 Italian Grand Priwx
There were plenty of run-ins between Ferrari and Williams in the intervening period – often involving Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya. But the events that transpired in the run-up to the 2003 Italian Grand Prix threw the two teams into another fierce row. Williams had emerged as one of the principal challengers to Ferrari, thanks in part to their Michelin tyres. But following an appeal by Ferrari’s tyre supplier Bridgestone, the FIA instructed Michelin to change the design of their tyres.

[JDOD]

Ferrari should be able to do straight line tests (which I believe they will do) for Schumacher to famiarise himself with the latests controls (i.e. KERS) and moveable wings and to reaquient himself with the speed, breaking and accelaration. Thats it. SHouldn't take more than an hour.

[Osiris13]

I think applying this rule to Schuey's situation is a bit mean - the rest of the field have had the season to get to know there cars. I wouldn't put it past any team given the chance to use a test for car development but what's wrong with giving the guy a day of testing?

[Cynon]

Ferrari has no business getting Michael Schumacher a test. For one he already had a test that wasn't supposed to have happened, and for another, Alguersuari never had a test session, just hopped straight into the Toro Rosso.

Typical Ferrari though. We should not be surprised.

[dr-baker]

Ferrari should be able to do straight line tests (which I believe they will do) for Schumacher to famiarise himself with the latests controls (i.e. KERS) and moveable wings and to reaquient himself with the speed, breaking and accelaration. Thats it. SHouldn't take more than an hour.

These F1 teams have simulators to familiarise the drivers with these...

[CarlosFerreira]

Still on topic, Ferrari has decided Badoer will not be testing the F-60, but he will be shooting a promotional film in Fiorano:

Badoer to drive F60 at Fiorano

Ferrari test driver Luca Badoer will be able to familiarise himself behind the wheel of one of the team's F60s ahead of his return to Formula 1 next weekend, when he drives the car for promotional purposes at Fiorano on Monday and Tuesday.
...
Ferrari made it clear that Badoer was not partaking in a test but would be driving the car for 'promotional purposes' only.

The Italian will be restricted to using Bridgestone's ultra-hard promotional tyres and will not be able to exceed the 100km limit agreed by the teams on either day.

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

I'd like to hear Patrick Head about this. I'm sure he'll go absolutely apes*it!

[jackanderton]

What part of 'testing is not allowed' do they not get?

[CarlosFerreira]

What part of 'testing is not allowed' do they not get?

The "no", I believe.

[Kuwashima]

Have I lost all sense of perspective in this due to Badoer's prescence?

I think if he can't go over 100, this is perfectly fine. It enables him to get familiar with the car, but to have no racing experience. This is different to Schumi's requested one-day test.

[noshpit]

they should also make him use a car with pre-season specs and not allow any data logging. just luca and the car - nothing else

[CarlosFerreira]

Have I lost all sense of perspective in this due to Badoer's prescence?

I think if he can't go over 100, this is perfectly fine. It enables him to get familiar with the car, but to have no racing experience. This is different to Schumi's requested one-day test.

Well, Luca's been Ferrari's test driver in the last 9 years or so. I'd imagine he's an accomplished development driver, so Ferrari will probably be testing some stuff, even with the harder-than-nails tyre. That's not really fair, is it?

Either way, somehow I'd be much more upset if it was Schumacher. Possibly because I think Luca does not have a fighting chance, I don't really care that much.

[jackanderton]

He's in a Ferrari, so will on that basis alone have a fighting chance.

[Kuwashima]

Thinking my position through - I think my point is that if this is allowable for ALL the teams - ie they have an agreement that teams may run the car in promotional events so long as they don't go above 100 - then the whole thing is OK.

I mean, could this not have been a loophole intentionally placed in by the teams to allow for some, limited, promotional activity during the 4 week blackout?

If Ferrari's asking for something not available to the other teams (as was the case with Schumi's one-off request) then that's where I draw the line.

[CarlosFerreira]

Thinking my position through - I think my point is that if this is allowable for ALL the teams - ie they have an agreement that teams may run the car in promotional events so long as they don't go above 100 - then the whole thing is OK.

I mean, could this not have been a loophole intentionally placed in by the teams to allow for some, limited, promotional activity during the 4 week blackout?

If Ferrari's asking for something not available to the other teams (as was the case with Schumi's one-off request) then that's where I draw the line.

Sure. It's just that I had never heard of this loophole. It also begs the question of why didn't Toro Rosso (we're going back to the same old argument...) make some promotional event with new-boy Alguersauri on board before he was entered in Hungary. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-testing, not protesting. It's just that this all sounds a bit convenient.

[Steve]

The F1 sporting regs (22.1(a)(i)) make a specific exception for 'promotional or demonstration events carried out using tyres provided specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier'. I presume the 100km figure has been agreed by the teams separately.