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Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 07 Apr 2013, 18:26
by dr-baker
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:dr-baker wrote:Really emphasises the difference between the two Sebs that season, doesn't it?
Especially the difference in luck. Vettel had all his bad luck out of the way before the Toro Rosso was on form, while Bourdais lost a potential podium at Monza due to a car problem - though he still set fastest lap in that race. He lost another possible podium at Spa with that last-moment downpour, and then there was that ridiculous penalty he got in Fuji.
Makes you wonder how he might have gone if he had another chance for a different team. He has (had) a good career in America, but that rarely translates to Europe (with the exceptions of Emerson Fittipaldi and Mario Andretti).
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 07 Apr 2013, 19:56
by dr-baker
And as we are currently (near) the top of a page...
Overall Championship Table with car numbers and drivers' teamsCode: Select all
year Winner car no. Points Originally Driver's Team
1950 Juan-Manuel Fangio n/a 458 2nd Alfa Romeo
1951 Juan-Manuel Fangio n/a 979 1st Alfa Romeo
1952 Alberto Ascari n/a 1218 1st Ferrari
1953 Juan-Manuel Fangio n/a 762 2nd Maserati
1954 Juan-Manuel Fangio n/a 686 1st Maserati, Mercedes
1955 Maurice Trintignant n/a 389 ? 4th Ferrari
1956 Stirling Moss n/a 699 2nd Maserati
1957 Stirling Moss n/a 502 2nd Maserati, Vanwall
1958 George Amick n/a 594 15th Epperly
1959 Phil Hill n/a 544 4th Ferrari
Code: Select all
1960 Olivier Gendebien n/a 400 6th Cooper
1961 Giancarlo Baghetti n/a 450 9th Ferrari
1962 Bruce McLaren n/a 452 3rd Cooper
1963 Jim Clark n/a 428 1st Lotus
1964 Jim Clark n/a 416 3rd Lotus
1965 Jackie Stewart n/a 504 3rd BRM
1966 Jack Brabham n/a 354 1st Brabham
1967 Dan Gurney n/a 364 8th Eagle
1968 Jacky Ickx n/a 439 4th Ferrari
1969 Jackie Stewart n/a 438 1st Matra
Code: Select all
1970 Jacky Ickx n/a 466 2nd Ferrari
1971 Ronnie Peterson n/a 640 2nd March
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi n/a 824 1st Lotus
1973 James Hunt n/a 378 8th March
1974 Clay Regazzoni 11 572 2nd Ferrari
1975 James Hunt 24 792 4th Hesketh
1976 James Hunt 11 759 1st McLaren
1977 Jody Scheckter 20 1100 2nd Wolf
1978 Carlos Reutemann 11 528 3rd Ferrari
1979 Alan Jones 27 1080 3rd Williams
Code: Select all
1980 Alan Jones 27 1809 1st Williams
1981 Jacques Laffite 26 1144 4th Ligier
1982 Didier Pironi 28 1092 2nd Ferrari
1983 Rene Arnoux 28 1372 3rd Ferrari
1984 Michele Alboreto 27 823 ½ 4th Ferrari
1985 Michele Alboreto 27 1431 2nd Ferrari
1986 Ayrton Senna 12 660 4th Lotus
1987 Gerhard Berger 28 1008 5th Ferrari
1988 Gerhard Berger 28 1148 3rd Ferrari
1989 Nigel Mansell 27 1026 4th Ferrari
Code: Select all
1990 Ayrton Senna 27 2106 1st McLaren
1991 Alain Prost 27 918 5th Ferrari
1992 Michael Schumacher 19 1007 3rd Benetton
1993 Ayrton Senna 8 584 2nd McLaren
1994 Gerhard Berger 28 1148 3rd Ferrari
1995 Jean Alesi 27 1134 5th Ferrari
1996 Damon Hill 5 485 1st Williams
1997 David Coulthard 10 360 3rd= McLaren
1998 Mika Hakkinen 8 800 1st McLaren
1999 Heinz-Harald Frentzen 8 432 3rd Jordan
Code: Select all
2000 Jacques Villeneuve 22 374 7th BAR
2001 David Coulthard 4 260 2nd McLaren
2002 Juan-Pablo Montoya 6 300 3rd Williams
2003 Kimi Raikkonen 6 546 2nd McLaren
2004 Jenson Button 9 765 3rd BAR
2005 Kimi Raikkonen 9 1008 2nd McLaren
2006 Jenson Button 12 672 6th Honda
2007 Kimi Raikkonen 6 660 1st Ferrari
2008 Lewis Hamilton 22 2156 1st McLaren
2009 Jenson Button 22 2090 1st Brawn
Code: Select all
2010 Fernando Alonso 8 2016 2nd Ferrari
2011 Fernando Alonso 5 1285 4th Ferrari
2012 Kimi Raikkonen 9 1863 3rd Lotus (Enstone)
2013 Lewis Hamilton 10 1890 4th Mercedes
Some random stats- Smallest points hauls to win title were in 2001 and 2002
- Largest points hauls to win title were in 2008, 1990 and 2009
- Clearly the number of races and points awarded for wins make little difference to points total, judging by the past few years...
- 15 champions win this in same year (you obviously don't don't carry the number 1 before you win the title, you do that a year later...)
- Lowest original championship positions to win this: 3 x 5ths; 2 x 6ths; 1 x 7th; 2 x 8ths; 1 x 9ths; 1 x 15th
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 07 Apr 2013, 21:06
by UncreativeUsername37
I love how you made an alternate championship where an Indy 500-only driver wins.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 08 Apr 2013, 11:03
by dr-baker
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:I love how you made an alternate championship where an Indy 500-only driver wins.
Yeah, I was surprised when that happened. I think that I'm the only person who has done that. And he didn't even win the Indy 500!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 08 Apr 2013, 11:09
by TomWazzleshaw
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:dr-baker wrote:Really emphasises the difference between the two Sebs that season, doesn't it?
Especially the difference in luck. Vettel had all his bad luck out of the way before the Toro Rosso was on form, while Bourdais lost a potential podium at Monza due to a car problem - though he still set fastest lap in that race. He lost another possible podium at Spa with that last-moment downpour, and then there was that ridiculous penalty he got in Fuji.
And then you had the Ferrari engine which decided to blow up with two laps to go in Australia while Bourdais was running in P4 in the crapbox that was the 2007 STR.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 08 Apr 2013, 11:21
by Salamander
Wizzie wrote:BlindCaveSalamander wrote:dr-baker wrote:Really emphasises the difference between the two Sebs that season, doesn't it?
Especially the difference in luck. Vettel had all his bad luck out of the way before the Toro Rosso was on form, while Bourdais lost a potential podium at Monza due to a car problem - though he still set fastest lap in that race. He lost another possible podium at Spa with that last-moment downpour, and then there was that ridiculous penalty he got in Fuji.
And then you had the Ferrari engine which decided to blow up with two laps to go in Australia while Bourdais was running in P4 in the crapbox that was the 2007 STR.
Ah, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Although I think you'll find that was the 2008 STR - albeit before it was any good.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 08 Apr 2013, 11:30
by James1978
Thanks for doing that 2008 alternative! (I had in my mind it would be Kubica's championship though).......
At least the winner of that won't win any more while he's got car number 1 though.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 08 Apr 2013, 11:59
by Meatwad
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Bourdais lost a potential podium at Monza due to a car problem - though he still set fastest lap in that race.
Actually, the fastest lap in Monza was set by Räikkönen (his ninth that season). Bourdais set the second fastest lap but was 1.211 seconds slower!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 21 Apr 2013, 15:18
by dr-baker
I realised recently that in the 2011 results, that I did not include the
2011 Bahrain GP, but having done a bit of mental arithmetics, I realised that Alonso would still end up as champion anyway. Maybe next weekend, I'll see what difference it makes, but it'll probably be similar, despite the peculiarity of that race's results!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 20 Jul 2013, 15:55
by dr-baker
So after round 9 of 19, here is a half-term report:
Code: Select all
DRIVER ACTUAL POINTS CAR NUMBER REVISED POINTS ORIGINAL POSITION
Hamilton 99 10 990 4th
Raikkonen 116 7 812 3rd
Rosberg 84 9 756 6th
di Resta 36 14 504 9th
Alonso 123 3 369 2nd
Sutil 23 15 345 11th
Grosjean 41 8 328 8th
Vergne 13 18 234 13th
Massa 57 4 228 7th
Code: Select all
DRIVER ACTUAL POINTS CAR NUMBER REVISED POINTS ORIGINAL POSITION
Ricciardo 11 19 209 14th
Webber 93 2 186 5th
Button 33 5 165 10th
Vettel 157 1 157 1st
Perez 16 6 96 12th
Hulkenberg 7 11 77 15th
Hamilton is looking on course to match one of the top-5 or so highest scores of all time in this championship, with Raikkonen the only close-ish challenger and Rosberg the only other who realistically can be see to challenge. Di Resta is doing well, while I hope that Button remains ahead of Vettel by season's end.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 24 Jul 2013, 12:43
by James1978
Got another retro idea for this - what would happen if the 1996 numbering system had never started and the 1974 system had kept going from 1996 to today?
Schumacher would certainly not dominate his Ferrari years as Benetton/Renault would have had 27/28 from 1996 until 2005. Though he no doubt would have won 2006! It probably goes to the team with 27/28 every year except when they really struggled such as Benetton around the turn of the milennium. Though wouldn't Red Bull have had quite high numbers until 2010?
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 25 Jul 2013, 16:39
by Bleu
It's difficult to say because the amount of teams decreased to 10 at worst, so I think that 27/28 might have not been used at all.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 25 Jul 2013, 17:20
by Bleu
With no spaces fixed. New teams will take smallest available numbers:
Benetton-Renault-Lotus: 27/28 1996-2005, 1/2 2006, 9/10 2007 to date
Tyrrell-BAR-Honda-Brawn-Mercedes: 3/4 1996 to date
Williams: 5/6 1996-1997, 1/2 1998, 7/8 1999 to date
McLaren: 7/8 1996-1998, 1/2 1999-2000, 9/10 2001-2006, 1/2 2007, 27/28 2008, 1/2 2009-2010, 11/12 2011 to date
Arrows: 9/10 1996, 1/2 1997, 5/6 1998-2002
Jordan-Midland-Spyker-Force India: 14/15 1996 to date
Forti: 21/22 1996
Minardi-STR: 23/24 1996 to date
Ligier-Prost 25/26: 1996-2001
Ferrari: 1/2 1996, 9/10 1997-2000, 1/2 2001-2005, 27/28 2006-2007, 1/2 2008, 27/28 2009 to date
Sauber-BMW-Sauber: 29/30 1996 to date
Stewart-Jaguar-Red Bull: 11/12 1997-2010, 1/2 2011 to date
Lola: 16/17 1997
Toyota: 16/17 2002-2009
Super Aguri: 5/6 2006-2008
Lotus-Caterham: 5/6: 2010 to date
HRT: 16/17 2010-2012
Virgin-Marussia: 18/19 2010 to date
As you can see, numbers 16 to 22 stay empty for four years which would not make much sense. I made this kind of system with possible changes throughout the years:
For 1996, Benetton will take its "traditional" numbers 19/20, which were empty since Larrousse went bust. Sauber moves to Simtek's place for 11/12. Stewart had already announced its intention to enter, so 16/17 stay empty for 1996 season, until Stewart gets them. Lola will get 21/22 left out by Forti. After Lola collapse, Prost will take their numbers.
Arrows and Ferrari swap 1/2 and 9/10 as in previous example. Williams and Arrows swap for 1998, then McLaren and Williams for 1999. So in 2000, the field is:
1/2 McLaren, 3/4 BAR, 5/6 Arrows, 7/8 Williams, 9/10 Ferrari, 11/12 Sauber, 14/15 Jordan, 16/17 Jaguar, 19/20 Benetton, 21/22 Prost, 23/24 Minardi.
Toyota will enter in 2002 and take 25/26 as Prost left its withdrawal quite late. Next year, Toyota takes Arrows's numbers 5/6.
With all the owner changes, some reshuffle in 2006. #18 will be taken to the use again. Renault takes 1/2, then all until 16/17 like in 2002 (with some teams changing names), then Ferrari 18/19, Toro Rosso 20/21, Super Aguri 22/23.
Renault and McLaren swap for 2007, then Ferrari takes 1/2 for a year. McLaren uses 1/2 again in 2009 and 2010.
In 2010, Lotus will take Toyota's numbers 5/6. HRT will be assigned 22/23 and Virgin 24/25. Red Bull and McLaren swap in 2011. In 2013 numbers used are between 1 and 25. Along with unlucky 13, 22 and 23 are not used following HRT's withdrawal.
Therefore the number assignment would be:
1/2 Red Bull, 3/4 Mercedes, 5/6 Caterham, 7/8 Williams, 9/10 Lotus, 11/12 Sauber, 14/15 Force India, 16/17 McLaren, 18/19 Ferrari, 20/21 Toro Rosso, 24/25 Marussia
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 22:37
by dr-baker
Sorry I haven't been updating this as often as some of the other Alternative Championships - this is not a priority over my uni work and life.
Although I wish it could be!
Anyway, a reminder of the positions prior to Vettel's race-winning domination...
dr-baker wrote:So after round 9 of 19, here is a half-term report:
Code: Select all
DRIVER ACTUAL POINTS CAR NUMBER REVISED POINTS ORIGINAL POSITION
Hamilton 99 10 990 4th
Raikkonen 116 7 812 3rd
Rosberg 84 9 756 6th
di Resta 36 14 504 9th
Alonso 123 3 369 2nd
Sutil 23 15 345 11th
Grosjean 41 8 328 8th
Vergne 13 18 234 13th
Massa 57 4 228 7th
Code: Select all
DRIVER ACTUAL POINTS CAR NUMBER REVISED POINTS ORIGINAL POSITION
Ricciardo 11 19 209 14th
Webber 93 2 186 5th
Button 33 5 165 10th
Vettel 157 1 157 1st
Perez 16 6 96 12th
Hulkenberg 7 11 77 15th
Hamilton is looking on course to match one of the top-5 or so highest scores of all time in this championship, with Raikkonen the only close-ish challenger and Rosberg the only other who realistically can be see to challenge. Di Resta is doing well, while I hope that Button remains ahead of Vettel by season's end.
And now, for the final results! (NP - new position, OP - original/real life position)
Code: Select all
NP OP Name Points Car No. Revised Points
1. 4. Hamilton 189 10 1890
2. 6. Rosberg 171 9 1539
3. 5. Raikkonen 183 7 1281
4. 7. Grosjean 132 8 1056
5. 2. Alonso 242 3 726
6. 12. Di Resta 48 14 672
7. 10. Hulkenberg 51 11 561
8. 13. Sutil 29 15 435
9. 3. Webber 199 2 398
10. 1. Vettel 397 1 397
Code: Select all
NP OP Name Points Car No. Revised Points
11. 14. Ricciardo 20 19 380
12. 9. Button 73 5 365
13. 11. Perez 49 6 294
14. 15. Vergne 13 18 234
15. 8. Massa 112 2 224
16. 16. Gutierrez 6 12 72
17. 17. Bottas 4 17 68
18. 18. Maldonado 1 16 16
So, as predicted at the half-way stage, this was Hamilton's to win, for only the second time. Vettel's late season charge seems to have helped him gain several places, yet still loses out to his departing teammate by a single point!
Massa does not show well here, 10 places behind Fernando and close in postion to his future team. But they (Williams)will have large car numbers next year - will they score enough points to take advantage of this? And for Raikkonen to have finished 2nd (where he was at the half-way stage), he would have needed to have scored 38 real-life points. Possible, but a 'What If?' scenario.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 22:47
by James1978
Massa should have double the points as he had car #4, not #2.
I do like this alternative championship though. McLaren should be in good stead next year if they get their act together, they'll have #9 and #10. I predict Button for champion next year - I presume he'll get #9 and Magnussen will get #10 but he should outscore him by 10% surely!!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 24 Nov 2013, 22:50
by dr-baker
James1978 wrote:Massa should have double the points as he had car #4, not #2.
Thanks.
No wonder he ended up doing relatively badly. At least I'll have a good supply of papayas to last until New Year now!
Will recalculate in the morning when I'm less tired.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 13:02
by dr-baker
Code: Select all
NP OP Name Points Car No. Revised Points
1. 4. Hamilton 189 10 1890
2. 6. Rosberg 171 9 1539
3. 5. Raikkonen 183 7 1281
4. 7. Grosjean 132 8 1056
5. 2. Alonso 242 3 726
6. 12. Di Resta 48 14 672
7. 10. Hulkenberg 51 11 561
8. 8. Massa 112 4 448
9. 13. Sutil 29 15 435
10. 3. Webber 199 2 398
Code: Select all
NP OP Name Points Car No. Revised Points
11. 1. Vettel 397 1 397
12. 14. Ricciardo 20 19 380
13. 9. Button 73 5 365
14. 11. Perez 49 6 294
15. 15. Vergne 13 18 234
16. 16. Gutierrez 6 12 72
17. 17. Bottas 4 17 68
18. 18. Maldonado 1 16 16
OK, so Massa's car number has been corrected and thus has jumped from 15th to 8th, much closer to Alonso. It also causes Vetel to drop out of the top-10!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 28 Nov 2013, 16:27
by dr-baker
This (and thus
this: both from Autosport) could make the future of this championship interesting...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 09 Dec 2013, 22:16
by dr-baker
And with today's news of drivers having fixed numbers for their career, and the final race being double points, it could lead to one driver dominating this championship for years if there are only one or two leading drivers with higher numbers.
Having said that, if you have a one-off winner with a high number winning the final round, that could have a big influence on the championship...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 23:53
by James1978
But it'll still be quite easy to work out the numbers every driver and team would have had if the 1996 - 2013 numbering system continued though and do a "What If" score based on that?
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 09:57
by dr-baker
Well, yes, I guess so, and I may well do so, time permitting, but the priority will be with 'reality'...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:19
by dr-baker
Sorry for the double-posting, but it's been 12 hours - opposite ends of the day...
Autosport have
an article on the history of the use of car numbers if anybody cares to read it.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 23:09
by UncreativeUsername37
dr-baker wrote:Sorry for the double-posting, but it's been 12 hours - opposite ends of the day...
Autosport have
an article on the history of the use of car numbers if anybody cares to read it.
I always kind of half realised that 5 and 6 were always at/near the front much more often than 3 and 4 in the semi-fixed number days. Like RedLetterMedia would say, I didn't notice it, but my brain did. Reading that article really makes me want teams to have personal numbers and not drivers (I could go for Ferrari 27/28 and Williams 5/6 if I had to), even though I know that goes against the reason they're doing it.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 00:14
by go_Rubens
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:dr-baker wrote:Sorry for the double-posting, but it's been 12 hours - opposite ends of the day...
Autosport have
an article on the history of the use of car numbers if anybody cares to read it.
I always kind of half realised that 5 and 6 were always at/near the front much more often than 3 and 4 in the semi-fixed number days. Like RedLetterMedia would say, I didn't notice it, but my brain did. Reading that article really makes me want teams to have personal numbers and not drivers (I could go for Ferrari 27/28 and Williams 5/6 if I had to), even though I know that goes against the reason they're doing it.
I'm one who'd like to see the system from '84 to '95 again as it was easy to tell which teams were which by car number. Next year's system is going to mess uo things a lot. And it's bloody pointless as well.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 11:32
by dr-baker
go_Rubens wrote:UgncreativeUsergname wrote:dr-baker wrote:Sorry for the double-posting, but it's been 12 hours - opposite ends of the day...
Autosport have
an article on the history of the use of car numbers if anybody cares to read it.
I always kind of half realised that 5 and 6 were always at/near the front much more often than 3 and 4 in the semi-fixed number days. Like RedLetterMedia would say, I didn't notice it, but my brain did. Reading that article really makes me want teams to have personal numbers and not drivers (I could go for Ferrari 27/28 and Williams 5/6 if I had to), even though I know that goes against the reason they're doing it.
I'm one who'd like to see the system from '84 to '95 again as it was easy to tell which teams were which by car number. Next year's system is going to mess uo things a lot. And it's bloody pointless as well.
The '84-'95 system began in 1976, I believe...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 20 Dec 2013, 17:08
by dr-baker
So as things stand at the moment, these are the numbers currently selected and revealed:
Alonso 14
Raikkonen 7
Massa 19
Bottas 77
Rosberg 6/5/8
Perez 11
Vergne 21/25/27
So, if Williams can get themselves into the midfield next year, I reckon Bottas has a very strong chance in this alternative championship. Should Williams have another shocker however, then my money would be on Jules-Eric Vergne (typo deliberate
).
{Source:
Autosport}.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 07 Mar 2014, 23:22
by dr-baker
OK, so the car numbers for 2014 have now been revealed, and here they are in numerical order:
Code: Select all
# Driver Team/Car
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
3 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault
4 Max Chilton Marussia-Ferrari
6 Nico Rosberg Mercedes
7 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari
8 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault
9 Marcus Ericsson Caterham-Renault
10 Kamui Kobayashi Caterham-Renault
11 Sergio Perez Force India-Mercedes
13 Pastor Maldonado Lotus-Renault
14 Fernando Alonso Ferrari
17 Jules Bianchi Marussia-Ferrari
Code: Select all
19 Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes
20 Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes
21 Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari
22 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes
25 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault
26 Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault
27 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes
44 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
45 Andre Lotterer Caterham-Renault
77 Valtteri Bottas Williams-Mercedes
99 Adrian Sutil Sauber-Ferrari
Taking into account the likely points scores of each team in my own opinion, I reckon that the top-three in this championship will quite likely be Hamilton, Bottas and Sutil. But in which order? The Mercedes engine currently seems stronger than the Ferrari, but will Lewis score more than double the number of real-life points that Adrian will score? My prediction? 1. Bottas; 2. Hamilton; 3; Sutil. And as for Vettel? He'll be scoring here with car number 1, not 5, so expect him to be nowhere near the top-10! (Although when I do update this, I will see where he may be with number 5...)
EDIT: Just realised that Sutil is at Sauber and not Force India. So Definitely between Bottas and Hamilton, this one, I reckon...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 13 Mar 2014, 23:36
by dr-baker
And
here's an article explaining why the drivers chose their numbers. Poor Jules Bianchi...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 15 Mar 2014, 15:28
by dr-baker
OK, so I used today's qualifying to see how the points might work out, and it looks like that one driver may dominate, if this single qualifying saession provides any kind of basis for the year... (using the final grid, to replicate any post-race penalties):
In grid order:
Code: Select all
1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 25 x 44 = 1100
2. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault 18 x 3 = 54
3. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 15 x 6 = 90
4. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 12 x 20 = 240
5. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 10 x 14 = 140
6. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault 8 x 25 = 200
7. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 6 x 27 = 162
8. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault 4 x 26 = 104
9. Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes 2 x 19 = 38
10. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1 x 22 = 22
And in points order:
Code: Select all
1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 25 x 44 = 1100
4. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 12 x 20 = 240
6. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault 8 x 25 = 200
7. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 6 x 27 = 162
5. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 10 x 14 = 140
8. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault 4 x 26 = 104
3. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 15 x 6 = 90
2. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault 18 x 3 = 54
9. Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes 2 x 19 = 38
10. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1 x 22 = 22
Of course these don't count for anything, but just interesting to see if there are any patterns...
(Of course the real reason for doing this was to take a break from writing my essay, but you won't tell anyone, will you!)
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 09:30
by Julien
And if Sutil scores a podium, he would win the championship
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 09:48
by Salamander
Julien wrote:And if Sutil scores a podium, he would win the championship
Unless Bottas scores a 4th place or better.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 17:27
by dr-baker
Julien wrote:And if Sutil scores a podium, he would win the championship
Salamander wrote:Unless Bottas scores a 4th place or better.
dr-baker wrote:Overall Championship Table with car numbers and drivers' teamsCode: Select all
year Winner car no. Points Originally Driver's Team
1990 Ayrton Senna 27 2106 1st McLaren
2006 Jenson Button 12 672 6th Honda
2007 Kimi Raikkonen 6 660 1st Ferrari
2008 Lewis Hamilton 22 2156 1st McLaren
2009 Jenson Button 22 2090 1st Brawn
2010 Fernando Alonso 8 2016 2nd Ferrari
2011 Fernando Alonso 5 1285 4th Ferrari
So, as you can see from 2006 to 2011, it is difficult to see how many points is required to win the title. A
huge jump can be seen from 2007 to 2008, then remains exceptionally high until 2011, when it decreases by around 40 % again. Most of the time in recent decades, it's been around 1000+ points, but Senna had a significant peak in 1990, with the second-highest total to date, and the highest at the time.
Now, if Sutil were to score a 3rd-placed podium, he would have 15 x 99 = 1485 points. A win would get him 25 x 99 = 2475 points, which may likely get him the title. The problem with predicting this season's results, though, is that, while we have had big car numbers before (from 1950 to the mid-1970s), nobody has consistently run with such large numbers all season long. And as you can see in my last post, Lewis would only have to win twice to overhaul podium points hauls from Sutil, something that is more than possible, poor reliability or not. So it looks as though this year may well see a record points haul.
Now, for the actual race scores from this round:
Pre-DSQCode: Select all
Pos Driver
1. Nico Rosberg 25 x 6 = 150
2. Daniel Ricciardo 18 x 3 = 54
3. Kevin Magnussen 15 x 20 = 300
4. Jenson Button 12 x 22 = 264
5. Fernando Alonso 10 x 14 = 140
6. Valtteri Bottas 8 x 77 = 616
7. Nico Hulkenberg 6 x 27 = 162
8. Kimi Raikkonen 4 x 7 = 28
9. Jean-Eric Vergne 2 x 25 = 50
10. Daniil Kvyat 1 x 26 = 26
And in points order, rather than race order:
Code: Select all
6. Valtteri Bottas 8 x 77 = 616
3. Kevin Magnussen 15 x 20 = 300
4. Jenson Button 12 x 22 = 264
7. Nico Hulkenberg 6 x 27 = 162
1. Nico Rosberg 25 x 6 = 150
5. Fernando Alonso 10 x 14 = 140
2. Daniel Ricciardo 18 x 3 = 54
9. Jean-Eric Vergne 2 x 25 = 50
8. Kimi Raikkonen 4 x 7 = 28
10. Daniil Kvyat 1 x 26 = 26
Code: Select all
Williams 616
McLaren 564 = 300 + 264
Ferrari 168 = 140 + 28
Force India 162
Mercedes 150
Toro Rosso 76 = 50 + 26
Red Bull 54
Post-DSQCode: Select all
1. Nico Rosberg 25 x 6 = 150
2. Kevin Magnussen 18 x 20 = 360
3. Jenson Button 15 x 22 = 330
4. Fernando Alonso 12 x 14 = 168
5. Valtteri Bottas 10 x 77 = 770
6. Nico Hulkenberg 8 x 27 = 216
7. Kimi Raikkonen 6 x 7 = 42
8. Jean-Eric Vergne 4 x 25 = 100
9. Daniil Kvyat 2 x 26 = 52
10. Sergio Perez 1 x 11 = 11
And in points order, rather than race order:
Code: Select all
5. Valtteri Bottas 10 x 77 = 770
2. Kevin Magnussen 18 x 20 = 360
3. Jenson Button 15 x 22 = 330
6. Nico Hulkenberg 8 x 27 = 216
4. Fernando Alonso 12 x 14 = 168
1. Nico Rosberg 25 x 6 = 150
8. Jean-Eric Vergne 4 x 25 = 100
9. Daniil Kvyat 2 x 26 = 52
7. Kimi Raikkonen 6 x 7 = 42
10. Sergio Perez 1 x 11 = 11
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Williams 770
McLaren 690 = 360 + 330
Force India 227 = 216 + 11
Ferrari 210 = 168 + 42
Mercedes 150
Toro Rosso 152 = 100 + 52
Now, clearly, Bottas I would imagine will score several times more during the season, and Hamilton will score a few wins, which will gain him several thousand points. Will be interesting to see how soon in the season the 2000-point barrier will be breached. Already Bottas has outscored some champions in many previous seasons...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 11:23
by Ferrim
It's clearly Hamilton vs Bottas vs Sutil here
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 27 Mar 2014, 13:34
by dr-baker
Ferrim wrote:It's clearly Hamilton vs Bottas vs Sutil here
Hamilton v. Bottas, yeah. But Sutil, perhaps not so much, given how many points Sauber are likely to be scoring...
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 31 Mar 2014, 11:06
by dr-baker
Malaysian GP 2014Code: Select all
1. Lewis Hamilton 25 x 44 = 1100
8. Valtteri Bottas 4 x 77 = 308
5. Nico Hulkenberg 10 x 27 = 270
6. Jenson Button 8 x 22 = 176
4. Fernando Alonso 12 x 14 = 168
7. Felipe Massa 6 x 19 = 114
2. Nico Rosberg 18 x 6 = 108
9. Kevin Magnussen 2 x 20 = 40
10. Daniil Kvyat 1 x 26 = 26
3. Sebastian Vettel 15 x 1 = 15
Drivers' Championship (assuming Red Bull's appeal fails!)
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1. Lewis Hamilton 0 + 1100 = 1100
2. Valtteri Bottas 770 + 308 = 1078
3. Jenson Button 330 + 176 = 506
4. Nico Hulkenberg 216 + 270 = 486
5. Kevin Magnussen 360 + 40 = 400
6. Fernando Alonso 168 + 168 = 336
7. Nico Rosberg 150 + 108 = 258
8. Felipe Massa 0 + 114 = 114
9. Jean-Eric Vergne 100 + 0 = 100
10 Daniil Kvyat 52 + 26 = 78
11 Kimi Raikkonen 42 + 0 = 42
12 Sebastian Vettel 0 + 15 = 15
13 Sergio Perez 11 + 0 = 11
Very clearly a two-way battle between Lewis and Valterri, although Lewis has only scored once and Valterri twice... Wiliams need to capitalize on their competitiveness to challenge Lewis.
Constructors' Championship Code: Select all
Mercedes 1100 + 258 = 1358
Williams 1078 + 114 = 1192
McLaren 506 + 400 = 906
Force India 486 + 11 = 497
Ferrari 336 + 42 = 378
Toro Rosso 100 + 78 = 178
Red Bull 15 + 0 = 15
McLaren are remaining relatively competitive here, but will need to improve to maintain their chances here, I suspect.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 12 Apr 2014, 22:13
by dr-baker
I was away from the internet while the Bahraini GP was on, and because it was a holiday, I am not really all that sorry that I did not update this then...
Points scores for the Bahraini GPCode: Select all
1. Lewis Hamilton 25 x 44 = 1100
8. Valtteri Bottas 4 x 77 = 308
5. Nico Hulkenberg 10 x 27 = 270
3. Sergio Perez 15 x 11 = 165
7. Felipe Massa 6 x 19 = 114
2. Nico Rosberg 18 x 6 = 108
4. Daniel Ricciardo 12 x 3 = 36
9. Fernando Alonso 2 x 14 = 28
6. Sebastian Vettel 8 x 1 = 8
10. Kimi Raikkonen 1 x 7 = 7
Pretty inevitable that those with the biggest car numbers (amongst those in the points - sorry Herr Sutil, but having a big car number does not help you when you are not actually scoring any points - 99 x 0 will always equal 0) scored the big points here. But Lewis is continuing to win and dominate. C'mon Valterri, you need to be doing better than this!!!
Which means this for the WDC:
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2. Lewis Hamilton 50 x 44 = 2200
8. Valtteri Bottas 18 x 77 = 1386
3. Nico Hulkenberg 28 x 27 = 756
5. Jenson Button 23 x 22 = 506
7. Kevin Magnussen 20 x 20 = 400
1. Nico Rosberg 61 x 6 = 366
4. Fernando Alonso 26 x 14 = 364
11. Felipe Massa 12 x 19 = 228
9. Sergio Perez 16 x 11 = 176
13. Jean-Eric Vergne 4 x 25 = 100
Code: Select all
14. Daniil Kvyat 3 x 26 = 78
12. Kimi Raikkonen 7 x 7 = 49
10. Daniel Ricciardo 12 x 3 = 36
6. Sebastian Vettel 23 x 1 = 23
Lewis is pulling away from Valterri here.
And Red Bull's drivers are paying the price here for choosing such small numbers - if either of them had a number in the mid- to high-90s, they would be competing for the title...
And the WCC:
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Mercedes 2200 + 366 = 2566
Williams 1386 + 228 = 1614
Force India 756 + 176 = 932
McLaren 506 + 400 = 906
Ferrari 364 + 49 = 413
Toro Rosso 100 + 78 = 178
Red Bull 36 + 23 = 59
McLaren were leading this after Australia.... This championship was designed to help the smaller team who were more likely to have larger numbers under the old numbering system, yet here, the four Mercedes teams are still 1-2-3-4.
But hey, at least Red Bull are in last place of the point-scorers... And as a Williams fan, I am happy that I can have Williams in second place in my alternative championship!
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 15 Apr 2014, 15:38
by dr-baker
Just wanted to point out that after 3 races and 2 wins this season, Lewis Hamilton already has the largest points haul this championship has ever seen for a single season. It's a combination of large points for a win combined with large entry numbers. Just a shame that Sauber are not as competitive as in the days of Kubica and the slightly boring bearded one.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 20 Apr 2014, 20:52
by James1978
I'll be amazed if Bottas can stay within 4/7 (if my maths is correct) of Hamilton's total.
I'd be more interested to see what would be happening if the 1996 - 2013 numbering continued? Could have been Williams doing well there as they would have 18 and 19! (Massa would probably have the 19 he has anyway as Bottas would more likely have got 18 being the incumbent).
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 20 Apr 2014, 22:27
by dr-baker
James1978 wrote:I'll be amazed if Bottas can stay within 4/7 (if my maths is correct) of Hamilton's total.
At the rate Williams are currently performing, I too will be amazed.
So, onto the Chinese Grand Prix:
Code: Select all
1. Lewis Hamilton 25 x 44 = 1100
7. Valtteri Bottas 6 x 77 = 462
6. Nico Hulkenberg 8 x 27 = 216
3. Fernando Alonso 15 x 14 = 210
2. Nico Rosberg 18 x 6 = 108
4. Daniel Ricciardo 12 x 3 = 36
8. Kimi Raikkonen 4 x 7 = 28
10. Daniil Kvyat 1 x 26 = 26
9. Sergio Perez 2 x 11 = 22
5. Sebastian Vettel 10 x 1 = 10
Again, a massive win for Lewis. Bottas takes second again, and is a looooooong way behind Lewis, therefore quickly losing ground in the WDC. And not a great haul of points for Vettel...
So the WDC here looks like this:
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2. Lewis Hamilton 75 x 44 = 3300
7. Valtteri Bottas 24 x 77 = 1848
4. Nico Hulkenberg 36 x 27 = 972
3. Fernando Alonso 41 x 14 = 574
8. Jenson Button 23 x 22 = 506
1. Nico Rosberg 79 x 6 = 474
9. Kevin Magnussen 20 x 20 = 400
11. Felipe Massa 12 x 19 = 228
10. Sergio Perez 18 x 11 = 198
14. Daniil Kvyat 4 x 26 = 104
Code: Select all
13. Jean-Eric Vergne 4 x 25 = 100
12. Kimi Raikkonen 11 x 7 = 77
6. Daniel Ricciardo 24 x 3 = 72
5. Sebastian Vettel 33 x 1 = 33
Lewis is dominating, Bottas is in a clear second and is himself soon to score enough that he would have won the title in any other year. And Red Bull are bottom of the pile, the most rejectful of the points-scoring teams!
Code: Select all
Mercedes 3300 + 474 = 3774
Williams 1848 + 228 = 2076
Force India 972 + 198 = 1070
McLaren 506 + 400 = 906
Ferrari 574 + 77 = 651
Toro Rosso 104 + 100 = 204
Red Bull 72 + 33 = 105
Mercedes are where you would expect. Williams are in a comfortable 2nd place (yay! - until you see below...). And F1's least-rejectful team of recent years are crud here. And McLaren seem now a long way indeed from their Australian form.
James1978 wrote:I'd be more interested to see what would be happening if the 1996 - 2013 numbering continued? Could have been Williams doing well there as they would have 18 and 19! (Massa would probably have the 19 he has anyway as Bottas would more likely have got 18 being the incumbent).
Well, I won't update this too regularly as it is not 'reality', at least not the reality of this alternate championship, but I may return to it again once or twice during the year. So here is how I would have allocated the car numbers for the year:
Code: Select all
Red Bull 1 Sebastian Vettel
2 Daniel Ricciardo
Mercedes 3 Nico Rosberg
4 Lewis Hamilton
Ferrari 5 Fernando Alonso
6 Kimi Raikkonen
Lotus 7 Romain Grosjean
8 Pastor Maldonado
McLaren 9 Kevin Magnussen
10 Jenson Button
Force India 11 Sergio Perez
12 Nico Hulkenberg
Code: Select all
Sauber 14 Adrian Sutil
15 Esteban Gutierrez
Toro Rosso 16 Jean-Eric Vergne
17 Daniil Kyvat
Williams 18 Felipe Massa
19 Valtteri Bottas
Marussia 20 Jules Bianchi
21 Max Chilton
Caterham 22 Marcus Ericsson
23 Kamui Kobayashi
Red Bull - pre-determined, Vettel would have 1, Ricciardo 2, whether we like it or not.
Mercedes - Rosberg had more wins in 2013. Or I am British and am biased, wanting to give Lewis the larger car number?
Ferrari - Alonso was the incumbent and out-scored Kimi in 2013.
Lotus - Grosjean was the incumbent and out-scored Pasta the Pastor in 2013.
McLaren - See Mercedes.
Force India - letting Perez keep the same number in both versions.
Sauber - Sutil is the more experienced of the two drivers by a long way.
Toro Rosso - Kvyat is a rookie.
Williams - See Sauber. Plus Bottas seems to be scoring higher at the moment, therefore this way round would maximise Williams's scoring (I like Williams...)
Marussia - Talent Talent Talent more likely to score and therefore to maximise the team's score!
Caterham - See Marussia...
So hopefully not too much bias in how I allocated each driver to each number there.
This is how things would currently look under this:
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7. Valtteri Bottas 24 x 19 = 456
4. Nico Hulkenberg 36 x 12 = 432
2. Lewis Hamilton 75 x 4 = 300
1. Nico Rosberg 79 x 3 = 237
8. Jenson Button 23 x 10 = 230
11. Felipe Massa 12 x 18 = 216
3. Fernando Alonso 41 x 5 = 205
10. Sergio Perez 18 x 11 = 198
9. Kevin Magnussen 20 x 9 = 180
14. Daniil Kvyat 4 x 17 = 68
12. Kimi Raikkonen 11 x 6 = 66
13. Jean-Eric Vergne 4 x 16 = 64
6. Daniel Ricciardo 24 x 2 = 48
5. Sebastian Vettel 33 x 1 = 33
Code: Select all
Williams 456 + 216 = 672
Force India 432 + 198 = 630
Mercedes 300 + 237 = 537
McLaren 230 + 180 = 410
Ferrari 205 + 66 = 271
Toro Rosso 68 + 64 = 132
Red Bull 48 + 33 = 81
Williams lead! Williams lead! Williams lead!
but then
that this is not reality. However, Red Bull still remain bottom of the points-scorers, not surprising considering they have the two smallest car numbers in both versions. Mercedes don't look nearly as impressive, though.
Re: Car numbers alternative championship
Posted: 21 Apr 2014, 17:16
by James1978
I think Hamilton would have had 4 rather than 3 as well - it's half of his real number after all (as would be Rosberg's but in a different way!!), plus he was much more impressive with 4 in 2012 than with 3 in 2011!
Kimi would definitely want the 6 he had on his Ferrari in 2007.
McLaren I highly doubt - though Button did make his debut with car 10, he had his first podium with 9!
I was thinking maybe Lotus and Williams may well be the other way round so Grosjean and Massa too get their chosen numbers - though that sounds go against logic really.