The _TCC Series Thread

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 27 May 2012, 11:15

Pointrox wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Is this possibly foreshadowing a second Michel Vaillant movie by any chance?

According to this, it's more likely a publicity stunt for the new series of Michel Vaillant comics.

So there are going to be Michel Vaillant comics about touring cars now??

Post by **tommykl** » 27 May 2012, 15:47

Waris wrote:
Pointrox wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Is this possibly foreshadowing a second Michel Vaillant movie by any chance?

According to this, it's more likely a publicity stunt for the new series of Michel Vaillant comics.

So there are going to be Michel Vaillant comics about touring cars now??

Just as long as they continue to do some F1 now and then, I'm perfectly cool with this, but I fear it'll be lacking that certain special something that came with Jean Graton's involvement.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 27 May 2012, 21:12

tommykl wrote:Just as long as they continue to do some F1 now and then, I'm perfectly cool with this, but I fear it'll be lacking that certain special something that came with Jean Graton's involvement.

Meh, it'll always be like that. I don't know if you are a big comics fan, but after the original artist dies or quits, comics usually become a lot worse.

Post by **tommykl** » 28 May 2012, 04:59

Waris wrote:
tommykl wrote:Just as long as they continue to do some F1 now and then, I'm perfectly cool with this, but I fear it'll be lacking that certain special something that came with Jean Graton's involvement.

Meh, it'll always be like that. I don't know if you are a big comics fan, but after the original artist dies or quits, comics usually become a lot worse.

I'm a huge Michel Vaillant fan, and I just hope they'll keep the same feel to it, with Philippe Graton still involved in some way.

Post by **Londoner** » 30 May 2012, 21:37

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100000

So, can we expect the same level of carnage as in Salzburg, knowing what teams are like? :roll:

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 30 May 2012, 22:24

East Londoner wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100000

So, can we expect the same level of carnage as in Salzburg, knowing what teams are like?

Lada to win both rounds then it looks like.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 05 Jul 2012, 07:01

Meanwhile, Chevrolet has announced that they are going to leave the WTCC after the 2012 season: http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7837
And Nissan thinking about entering touring cars in the next years: http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=7833

Maybe GM will allocate something of its motorsport budget to Opel, in order to let them go back to DTM? Probably not, as Opel doesn't even have a suitable coupe in the moment.

Post by **Londoner** » 05 Jul 2012, 14:58

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100911

Translation: He's trashing pit garages Daniel Melrose style. :lol:

At least the blow of losing Chevrolet is softened somewhat by Honda joining the series next year, but unless they are quick straight off the block, I can see 2013 being a BMW walkover.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 05 Jul 2012, 15:15

East Londoner wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100911

Translation: He's trashing pit garages Daniel Melrose style.

At least the blow of losing Chevrolet is softened somewhat by Honda joining the series next year, but unless they are quick straight off the block, I can see 2013 being a BMW walkover.

But we haven't seen Honda testing their WTCC Civic yet. The same goes for the planned WTCC version of the new Leon (Although the new Leon isn't out yet). The only manufacturer that might be fixed for 2013 is Lada.

On the other hand, we still have plenty of privateer teams, and the organizers should now do something to sink the costs/raise the revenues for the privateers. Especially since races in the USA or Japan aren't cheap.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 05 Jul 2012, 16:56

Ferrarist wrote:Maybe GM will allocate something of its motorsport budget to Opel, in order to let them go back to DTM? Probably not, as Opel doesn't even have a suitable coupe in the moment.

Weld up the doors of an Insignia, job done.

It's a bit like Honda's BTCC entry a few years back; the regulations stated they had to run a four/five-door model (or something like that), so their plan to enter the three-door Civic Type R was somewhat scuppered. That is, until they transferred all the oily bits from the Type R into a five-door bodyshell, that was legal, and they were race winners again...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Jul 2012, 19:33

The WTCC also won't be racing in Britain for the foreseeable future either. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100903

This and Chevrolet's exit just worsens what is an already poor series. For some reason the WTCC has never taken off has it? I just don't think there is much demand for it outside Europe, because each global region has it's own equivalent. Brazil have their V8s like Australia, the US has NASCAR, and even in Europe we have the BTCC, the Germans have the DTM, etc, etc. I just can't see where the WTCC can really achieve.

I hope Nissan don't bother with it and instead focus on a WEC programme to challenge Toyota. I'd really like to see another manufacturer or two over there in the near future, but it's early days for that series, and anyway this is the touring car thread!

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 05 Jul 2012, 19:45

dinizintheoven wrote:
Ferrarist wrote:Maybe GM will allocate something of its motorsport budget to Opel, in order to let them go back to DTM? Probably not, as Opel doesn't even have a suitable coupe in the moment.

Weld up the doors of an Insignia, job done.

It's a bit like Honda's BTCC entry a few years back; the regulations stated they had to run a four/five-door model (or something like that), so their plan to enter the three-door Civic Type R was somewhat scuppered. That is, until they transferred all the oily bits from the Type R into a five-door bodyshell, that was legal, and they were race winners again...

I doubt that the overly correct ITR would allow Opel to do that kind of thing. Of course, Opel doesn't have the money to compete in DTM in the first place.

AndreaModa wrote:The WTCC also won't be racing in Britain for the foreseeable future either. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100903

This and Chevrolet's exit just worsens what is an already poor series. For some reason the WTCC has never taken off has it? I just don't think there is much demand for it outside Europe, because each global region has it's own equivalent. Brazil have their V8s like Australia, the US has NASCAR, and even in Europe we have the BTCC, the Germans have the DTM, etc, etc. I just can't see where the WTCC can really achieve.

I hope Nissan don't bother with it and instead focus on a WEC programme to challenge Toyota. I'd really like to see another manufacturer or two over there in the near future, but it's early days for that series, and anyway this is the touring car thread!

The WTCC just surrendered to BTCC and DTM in their homegrounds. No race in Germany (Because after BMW as a works entry left, attendances fell and no track really wanted to have WTCC) and of course no race in Britain. Maybe they (and the organizers of BTCC and DTM) should swallow their egos and race alongside the other national touring car series.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 05 Jul 2012, 20:15

Ferrarist wrote:The WTCC just capitulated to BTCC and DTM in their homegrounds. No race in Germany (Because after BMW as a works entry left, attendances fell and no track really wanted to have WTCC) and of course no race in Britain. Maybe they (and the organizers of BTCC and DTM) should swallow their egos and race alongside the other national touring car series.

The problem is that would require a major overhaul in either series' regulation. The pseudo-GT cars of the DTM are not comparable to the BTCC cars, and the question is what would rather give: the reasonable costs of the BTCC or the power of DTM cars. If it were the latter, I'd ragequit touring car racing.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Jul 2012, 20:17

Klon wrote:
Ferrarist wrote:The WTCC just capitulated to BTCC and DTM in their homegrounds. No race in Germany (Because after BMW as a works entry left, attendances fell and no track really wanted to have WTCC) and of course no race in Britain. Maybe they (and the organizers of BTCC and DTM) should swallow their egos and race alongside the other national touring car series.

The problem is that would require a major overhaul in either series' regulation. The pseudo-GT cars of the DTM are not comparable to the BTCC cars, and the question is what would rather give: the reasonable costs of the BTCC or the power of DTM cars. If it were the latter, I'd ragequit touring car racing.

I suppose they could share the same race weekend, but run different races, but yeah why would I want to watch the rubbish WTCC field when I can see the far more varied, interesting and exciting BTCC field instead?

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 06 Jul 2012, 21:26

Ferrarist wrote:Meanwhile, Chevrolet has announced that they are going to leave the WTCC after the 2012 season

I've been out of the loop all week as I've been away for work but seeing this headline on the WTCC website made my day. Thank god this boring team, with their boring cars, have even bored themselves it seems.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 07 Jul 2012, 00:36

Barbazza wrote:
Ferrarist wrote:Meanwhile, Chevrolet has announced that they are going to leave the WTCC after the 2012 season

I've been out of the loop all week as I've been away for work but seeing this headline on the WTCC website made my day. Thank god this boring team, with their boring cars, have even bored themselves it seems.

The WTCC is just really boring.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 07 Jul 2012, 00:48

All this talk of boring has reminded me of this. :lol:

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 28 Sep 2012, 09:51

sooo no words on the first WTCC race on American soil?
nothing on the flagman's muck up that had the race run an extra lap?

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 28 Sep 2012, 20:26

The races were WTCC races, therefore the only comment to make is - they were OK. Not a bad circuit, but until the dull Chevy wins end, I can't get too excited about any of it. Only some of the cars ran an extra lap though, didn't they?

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 06 Oct 2012, 18:41

I don't think I'm going to enjoy BTCC tomorrow. Plato on pole and the Hondas are nowhere.

Here's Plato's typically graceful quote (from the BTCC website) - “Gordon only 19th – that’s a shame, isn’t it? You shouldn’t wish ill on your rivals… but I do."

What an utter James Allen. Can someone lock him and Jackie Stewart in a room so they can 'charm' each other to death?

Post by **Londoner** » 06 Oct 2012, 21:26

Silly question, but has Plato always been a total bastard in the BTCC? Maybe he learned his driving skills from Steve Soper...

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 12 Oct 2012, 20:36

A bit late on this one, but to answer your question - yes.

Last weekend was as bad as I feared it would be. The farcical sight of the MG breezing past everybody with ease while the Hondas went backwards due to them not being allowed to have any turbo boost was extremely depressing. Not content with losing 2 champions - Giovanardi and Turkington - in the last few years because they couldn't get drives (for all his faults, can you imagine Bernie letting that happen in F1?!) Alan Gow is now penalising teams twice with the ballast and the turbo boost restictions. The ballast is enough - if a team like Honda build a fast car, why should they be penalised further?

I bet Plato also loves the fact that his ****wipe of a team mate wipes cars out for him every race as well, especially as whenever he gets a competitive team mate they disappear pretty quickly (Mat Jackson, Andy Nash, Alex McDowell)
Andy Neate should have his licence taken away, he's a total disgrace. In one of the fastest cars, while Plato is 2nd in the championship, Neate is 16th. That tells you everything.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 12 Oct 2012, 21:28

Barbazza wrote:A bit late on this one, but to answer your question - yes.

Last weekend was as bad as I feared it would be. The farcical sight of the MG breezing past everybody with ease while the Hondas went backwards due to them not being allowed to have any turbo boost was extremely depressing. Not content with losing 2 champions - Giovanardi and Turkington - in the last few years because they couldn't get drives (for all his faults, can you imagine Bernie letting that happen in F1?!) Alan Gow is now penalising teams twice with the ballast and the turbo boost restictions. The ballast is enough - if a team like Honda build a fast car, why should they be penalised further?

I bet Plato also loves the fact that his ****wipe of a team mate wipes cars out for him every race as well, especially as whenever he gets a competitive team mate they disappear pretty quickly (Mat Jackson, Andy Nash, Alex McDowell)
Andy Neate should have his licence taken away, he's a total disgrace. In one of the fastest cars, while Plato is 2nd in the championship, Neate is 16th. That tells you everything.

I think I saw something mentioning that having Neate on board dragged the MG's average performance down, so that it makes Plato miles faster than everyone else, as was the case at Silverstone. Andy Neate is an absolute joke - he's the absolute worst driver I've seen in my life without question or shadow of a doubt, and I've seen Michael Waltrip drive. He's barely scored a fifth of the points Plato has. That said, I did cheer when Mike and Andrew Jordan had a go at him when being interviewed; it's well past time somebody tore into him.

That said, Mat Jackson did a hell of a job keeping Plato honest - well, as honest as you can get with Plato. Shedden also still has a fairly decent lead thanks to some frankly great damage limitation, so I'm still confident he can take the championship at Brands Hatch. Especially if it rains.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Oct 2012, 14:19

Barbazza wrote: Not content with losing 2 champions - Giovanardi and Turkington - in the last few years because they couldn't get drives (for all his faults, can you imagine Bernie letting that happen in F1?!).

It happened 20 years ago - Nigel Mansell (1992) and Alain Prost (1993)... Because they couldn't negociate with Frank

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 13 Oct 2012, 19:13

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think I saw something mentioning that having Neate on board dragged the MG's average performance down, so that it makes Plato miles faster than everyone else, as was the case at Silverstone. Andy Neate is an absolute joke - he's the absolute worst driver I've seen in my life without question or shadow of a doubt, and I've seen Michael Waltrip drive. He's barely scored a fifth of the points Plato has. That said, I did cheer when Mike and Andrew Jordan had a go at him when being interviewed; it's well past time somebody tore into him.

So having Neate helps keep their boost up? That figures I guess, it would certainly explain a lot about last weekend. It's almost as if BTCC are embarrassed by him, there was absolutely zero on the website about his antics as usual, and he never seems to be interviewed by ITV4 either. Mike and Andrew Jordan's interviews did indeed say quite enough though!

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:That said, Mat Jackson did a hell of a job keeping Plato honest - well, as honest as you can get with Plato. Shedden also still has a fairly decent lead thanks to some frankly great damage limitation, so I'm still confident he can take the championship at Brands Hatch. Especially if it rains.

Yes, Mat Jackson was awesome as ever - shame his car conked out in the first race. I'm crossing everything for Shedden to take the title, Matt Neal's the best rear-gunner you could ask for!!

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 13 Oct 2012, 19:15

dr-baker wrote:
Barbazza wrote: Not content with losing 2 champions - Giovanardi and Turkington - in the last few years because they couldn't get drives (for all his faults, can you imagine Bernie letting that happen in F1?!).

It happened 20 years ago - Nigel Mansell (1992) and Alain Prost (1993)... Because they couldn't negociate with Frank

True enough, though Mansell found a great drive in Indycars and Prost was near retirement anyway. Plus Bernie didn't have quite as much influence back then.

Giovanardi had done a fair stint, but to lose Turkington was utter madness.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Oct 2012, 00:42

Barbazza wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think I saw something mentioning that having Neate on board dragged the MG's average performance down, so that it makes Plato miles faster than everyone else, as was the case at Silverstone. Andy Neate is an absolute joke - he's the absolute worst driver I've seen in my life without question or shadow of a doubt, and I've seen Michael Waltrip drive. He's barely scored a fifth of the points Plato has. That said, I did cheer when Mike and Andrew Jordan had a go at him when being interviewed; it's well past time somebody tore into him.

So having Neate helps keep their boost up? That figures I guess, it would certainly explain a lot about last weekend. It's almost as if BTCC are embarrassed by him, there was absolutely zero on the website about his antics as usual, and he never seems to be interviewed by ITV4 either. Mike and Andrew Jordan's interviews did indeed say quite enough though!

I think Neate also brings a fair bit of money iirc. It isusually a safe bet that he will end up being DBTMOTR

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 14 Oct 2012, 05:09

CTSCC Title deciding race, which happened to be the finale as well, happened at Lime Rock Park this past week. They split the race into two rounds, one for ST(street tuner - compacts and 325i's), and the other for GS(Grand Sport - stock muscle cars and some porsches). both races decided each class' points title.

ST Winner: Pierre Kleinubing, Cybernation/iMoto Mazda MX-5 Miata
GS Winners: David Empringham and John Farano(same team,tie), The Billfish Foundation/Rum Bum Film and HD Studios/RumBum.com Porsche Carreras

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Oct 2012, 15:22

Barbazza wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I think I saw something mentioning that having Neate on board dragged the MG's average performance down, so that it makes Plato miles faster than everyone else, as was the case at Silverstone. Andy Neate is an absolute joke - he's the absolute worst driver I've seen in my life without question or shadow of a doubt, and I've seen Michael Waltrip drive. He's barely scored a fifth of the points Plato has. That said, I did cheer when Mike and Andrew Jordan had a go at him when being interviewed; it's well past time somebody tore into him.

So having Neate helps keep their boost up? That figures I guess, it would certainly explain a lot about last weekend. It's almost as if BTCC are embarrassed by him, there was absolutely zero on the website about his antics as usual, and he never seems to be interviewed by ITV4 either. Mike and Andrew Jordan's interviews did indeed say quite enough though!

So Jason Plato spent all of last year bickering about parity and equality, then his new team for 2012 exploits a rule to make him and his car go faster? Hypocrisy...

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 21 Oct 2012, 13:57

Gordon Shedden wins the championship, great drive.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Oct 2012, 14:19

darkapprentice77 wrote:Gordon Shedden wins the championship, great drive.

He really deserved it as well, it's been a fantastic year for him, really pleased to see him win it. Congratulations to Aron Smith as well, winning his first race - he's really come good these last few meetings, hasn't he? Definitely somebody to keep an eye on in the future.

Of course, the day wouldn't be complete if Andy Neate wasn't being an utter moron, going off at Graham Hill before rejoining and driving straight into Adam Morgan, taking Morgan, Tom Onslow-Cole, and Aaron Williamson out through no fault of their own. I wish somebody would just ban this clueless idiot from all racing, he clearly has no idea what he's doing.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 21 Oct 2012, 14:55

Congratulations to Gordon Shedden, indeed. If you beat a team mate called Matt Neal, you truly deserve a BTCC title. Maybe he can enter the WTCC in the next years with Honda? Or maybe not, because the BTCC needs some more top drivers. 2009 was great, with Giovanardi, Turkington, Thompson, Chilton and so on.

In other next, Bruno Spengler has finally (After something like a million attempts) won a DTM championship! It was indeed a nail-biting finale, but Spengler held Paffett behind for the whole distance, thus making it a fully deserved championship. I wonder, if someone in Canada will notice, though...

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 21 Oct 2012, 18:05

Ferrarist wrote:In other next, Bruno Spengler has finally (After something like a million attempts) won a DTM championship! It was indeed a nail-biting finale, but Spengler held Paffett behind for the whole distance, thus making it a fully deserved championship. I wonder, if someone in Canada will notice, though...

I DID! YES! YES! YES!

Post by **Londoner** » 21 Oct 2012, 18:21

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
darkapprentice77 wrote:Gordon Shedden wins the championship, great drive.

He really deserved it as well, it's been a fantastic year for him, really pleased to see him win it. Congratulations to Aron Smith as well, winning his first race - he's really come good these last few meetings, hasn't he? Definitely somebody to keep an eye on in the future.

Of course, the day wouldn't be complete if Andy Neate wasn't being an utter moron, going off at Graham Hill before rejoining and driving straight into Adam Morgan, taking Morgan, Tom Onslow-Cole, and Aaron Williamson out through no fault of their own. I wish somebody would just ban this clueless idiot from all racing, he clearly has no idea what he's doing.

By the sounds of it, this Neate fellow makes Deletraz look like Fangio.

And there I have a resolution for next year, watch BTCC on a regular basis.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Oct 2012, 18:40

How the hell does that total brainless moron Andy Neate keep getting top drives? He can't be that rich now can he? West Surry Racing to Team AON to Triple Eight, that sounds like the career progression of a rising touring car star, not a clueless pay driver.

For example, why did Team AON even need the money? Chilton brought lots and lots of cash from Aon to fund the entire project, they wouldn't have needed Neate's cash surely. It's strange because it doesn't fit the traditional pay-driver model of bad driver going to small underfunded team that would be at the back of the grid anyway. It is a lot like Yamamoto starting out at Mercedes, then moving on to Lotus and finally ending up at Ferrari.

It's not just when you compare him to his team-mate he looks bad - he finished on exactly the same amount of points as Daniel Welch, who drove the Proton. The bloody PROTON. That car is never going to win anything, not even if you put Neal or Shedden in it. So, 79 points in a Triple 8 developed MG versus 79 points in a car cobbled together in a shed by Welch's own family team. Except it gets better; while Neate did all 30 races this year, Welch didn't start any races at Thruxton and didn't even turn up at Rockingham! SIX races less! What a total joke.

Actually, I stopped watching the BTCC much ever since Andy Neate got his drive with WSR, I think I was so disgusted that the series had got to the point that any old numpty with a ton of cash could buy his way into a top drive that I just wasn't interested anymore. When you have drivers like Fabrizio Giovanardi and James Thompson just sitting on the sidelines doing nothing and these clowns in the top seats, I don't see the point. I'm not interested in seeing Honda race against Jason "I'm a f***ing tool" Plato and a bunch of wealthy gentleman drivers lining the pockets of all the team owners in the series.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 24 Oct 2012, 20:41

kostas, you have pretty much encapsulated every thing I've been thinking this season, especially regarding Mr. Neate.

Incidentally, he was given 3 points on his licence and a fine....for the first race where he lightly touched someone and they went off (can't remember who, might have been Welch actually!) but for the second race, nothing. What a farce!

I didn't much enjoy the Moody and Harvey back-slapping exercise in the last race either. 'Oh, what a wonderful first season it's been for me' says Moody - well, the feeling's not mutual because I think you're bloody dreadful mate and ITV AGAIN went to an ad break with the safety car out and missed the restart. That must have happened half a dozen times in BTCC races this season (and even more in the support races though I suppose that's more forgivable) and is not the action of a professional broadcaster.

Anyhow, well done to Gordon who definitely deserved the title. Pleased for Aron Smith and Frank Wrathall as well - the latter is a little bit wild at times but nowhere near as bad as Plato. I notice Plato had Chris Evans in his pit - proof that pricks stick together.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 09 Nov 2012, 00:21

Münnich Motorsport, of FIA GT1 Championship winning fame in their SLS GT3, is to join the WTCC in 2013 with 3 Seat Leons.

But the real news is that Markus -effing- Winkelhock will drive one of the cars!

Also, their races at the Shanghai F1 Circuit was one of the best WTCC races I've seen in a while, lots of action everywhere even if Chevy won AGAIN.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 09 Nov 2012, 05:19

I think that the next WTCC season could be much more interesting than the current one. The Chevys won't be that dominant without the works support, while the Honda is still very new, and won't dominate the series either. So I expect, that maybe four different marques could fight for wins, instead of always Chevrolet, with sometimes a surprise winner in a BMW or SEAT. I doubt that Ford or Lada can reach the performance of the others.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 23 Nov 2012, 22:53

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the WTCC finale at Macau.

There was some spectacularly bad driving, not least from Yvan Muller who seemed to decide on a very good impression of Jason Plato for the last couple of rounds, and a deserved championship for Rob Huff who nearly lost a huge lead going into the last 2 races.

The TV coverage was awful though, missing many incidents and not replaying things they did catch first time round.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Nov 2012, 01:24

Barbazza wrote:I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the WTCC finale at Macau.

I'm surprised that people watched the WTCC finale.