The "we are still using doping" Cycling-thread!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 18 Jul 2012, 15:23

ALLEZ VOECKLER!

This is why he is my favourite rider. The man does not know the definition of "giving up". He looked in pain half of the time, even more so than usual (because he is grimacing like 90% of the time anyway), but he just would not stop and won all four climbs and the stage. Total domination. Polka dot jersey absolutely deserved. One more day in the Pyrenees and it's his for the keeping. I believe.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 18 Jul 2012, 18:52

kostas22 wrote:ALLEZ VOECKLER!

This is why he is my favourite rider. The man does not know the definition of "giving up". He looked in pain half of the time, even more so than usual (because he is grimacing like 90% of the time anyway), but he just would not stop and won all four climbs and the stage. Total domination. Polka dot jersey absolutely deserved. One more day in the Pyrenees and it's his for the keeping. I believe.

A brilliant win. Absolutely astounding.

I don't know why Team LiquiGas does not have anyone supporting Nibali. Are they all a bunch of lames (aside from Sagan)? Are some of them injured? Nibali tried to attack and didn't stand a chance, and I could stop myself from yelling at the television "WHERE THE bathplug ARE YOUR TEAMMATES?"

Good to see Teejay still in White.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 18 Jul 2012, 19:02

F1000X wrote:I don't know why Team LiquiGas does not have anyone supporting Nibali. Are they all a bunch of lames (aside from Sagan)? Are some of them injured? Nibali tried to attack and didn't stand a chance, and I could stop myself from yelling at the television "WHERE THE bathplug ARE YOUR TEAMMATES?"

Good to see Teejay still in White.

They don't have much depth. Ivan Basso is supposed to be to Nibali what Froome is to Wiggins, but ever since he stopped doping he's been a pale shadow of his former (juiced) self. However, it seems shocking that they brought Sylwester Szmyd and then he is nowhere to be seen when Nibali is fighting for the GC. He should be their main mountain domestique but I can't remember seeing him at all this tour. It's like he is invisible. Aside from Szmyd I don't think they have any domestiques strong enough on the hilly stuff to assist Nibali properly.

Robert Gesink was really poor before he eventually retired. Rabobank should target either Nibali or Froome to replace him as their new first choice GC contender. They can offer a little bit more in terms of backup for GC contenders than Liquigas IMO.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 18 Jul 2012, 19:19

kostas22 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I don't know why Team LiquiGas does not have anyone supporting Nibali. Are they all a bunch of lames (aside from Sagan)? Are some of them injured? Nibali tried to attack and didn't stand a chance, and I could stop myself from yelling at the television "WHERE THE bathplug ARE YOUR TEAMMATES?"

Good to see Teejay still in White.

They don't have much depth. Ivan Basso is supposed to be to Nibali what Froome is to Wiggins, but ever since he stopped doping he's been a pale shadow of his former (juiced) self. However, it seems shocking that they brought Sylwester Szmyd and then he is nowhere to be seen when Nibali is fighting for the GC. He should be their main mountain domestique but I can't remember seeing him at all this tour. It's like he is invisible. Aside from Szmyd I don't think they have any domestiques strong enough on the hilly stuff to assist Nibali properly.

Robert Gesink was really poor before he eventually retired. Rabobank should target either Nibali or Froome to replace him as their new first choice GC contender. They can offer a little bit more in terms of backup for GC contenders than Liquigas IMO.

I agree with that. Liquigas, whilst one of the better teams, can't match what Sky are currently capable of, and as you say, what teams like Rabobank, Saxo Bank etc have been capable of previously. Just watched the stage highlights on ITV4, and it's clear that Nibali would be far better off with a teammate or two backing him up for longer. I think he'll have to go balls out tomorrow to try and make any sort of inroads on either Froome or Wiggins, and hope that Sky as a team can't reel him in towards the end. Voeckler did very well today, probably one of the best victories of this Tour. I'd imagine Europcar are looking at ProTour ranking once more after this, it would certainly be very well deserved. They've easily been the best of the ProContinental teams this year.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Jul 2012, 12:31

Voeckler has beaten Kessiakoff in the first climb of the day.

Come on Ti-Blanc, bring the jersey home. I BELIEVE!

/ And now that's seven out of the last seven climbs that he has topped in first. Only two to go and the jersey will belong to him come Paris. ALLEZ ALLEZ ALLEZ!!!

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 19 Jul 2012, 13:18

kostas22 wrote:Voeckler has beaten Kessiakoff in the first climb of the day.

Come on Ti-Blanc, bring the jersey home. I BELIEVE!

/ And now that's seven out of the last seven climbs that he has topped in first. Only two to go and the jersey will belong to him come Paris. ALLEZ ALLEZ ALLEZ!!!

This is absolutely riveting. HERE WE GO.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Jul 2012, 13:55

He may not be at the front anymore, but he's still in the same group as Kessiakoff. As long as he keeps in his wheel and jumps him at the mountain tops, he should be set for the polka dot jersey. Chapeau Tommy.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 19 Jul 2012, 14:10

kostas22 wrote:He may not be at the front anymore, but he's still in the same group as Kessiakoff. As long as he keeps in his wheel and jumps him at the mountain tops, he should be set for the polka dot jersey. Chapeau Tommy.

This really is the stage to end all stages. Altitude, insane Pyrenees climbs, rain, fog. Finally Nibali's team has some semblance of their shite together. Lets see if he can make something happen.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 19 Jul 2012, 15:04

Voeckler

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 19 Jul 2012, 15:19

Froome is going to be Wiggins' biggest foe next year. He really had a shot at Valverde.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 19 Jul 2012, 21:45

Voeckler is a boss.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 20 Jul 2012, 00:09

F1000X wrote:Froome is going to be Wiggins' biggest foe next year. He really had a shot at Valverde.

The way Wiggins said he'd support a bid by Froome for the GC in future seasons suggests that the two's roles may be reversed even by next year should Froome stay at Sky. Considering he's younger and looks in far better shape, it makes total sense for Sky to back Froome, at least once Wiggins has his Tour victory. I personally think it would be awesome to see Froome go somewhere else and then have the two going head-to-head next year. Maybe Radioshack if they're still about, or Saxo Bank?

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 20 Jul 2012, 20:13

Well done Supermanx.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 20 Jul 2012, 20:36

Well Cav destroyed everyone today. Just goes to show that those guys who say he's no good without his leadout train are idiots. And it's got nothing to do with the fact he won from being 10 bike lengths behind with only 200m to go. Where were Greipel and Goss? Nowhere! Without their own leadout trains they were absolutely nowhere. Sagan has gone the whole tour using other teams' wheels to get himself in the fight, Liquigas have given him no service. I'm not even particularly a fan of Cav, but he really showed up the doubters today. Even spending two weeks being a domestique hasn't slowed him down.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 21 Jul 2012, 16:03

If Cadel wants to show he's a team player, he might consider riding domestique for Van Garderen so Teejay can make a bid for 3rd place. I BELIEVE IN YOU TEEJAY!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 16:13

F1000X wrote:If Cadel wants to show he's a team player, he might consider riding domestique for Van Garderen so Teejay can make a bid for 3rd place. I BELIEVE IN YOU TEEJAY!

I don't see how. That would require a breakaway once they'd already reached the Champs-Élysées, and once they are there, it's flat, so there's no real opportunity to successfully break. I think Sky will be quite determined to get Cav into a position to win the stage and will chase any serious breaks for that reason. The GC is locked in now.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 21 Jul 2012, 18:00

Bradley Wiggins is a hero! With Cavendish and Frome as well British cycling has never looked stronger and we look in great shape for the Olympics too.

Yes I am bringing up the Olympics, problem Kostas?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 18:24

Shadaza wrote:Bradley Wiggins is a hero! With Cavendish and Frome as well British cycling has never looked stronger and we look in great shape for the Olympics too.

Yes I am bringing up the Olympics, problem Kostas?

No. You'll have one when Germany wins gold with Greipel having Martin as his leadout man :twisted:

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Jul 2012, 19:20

kostas22 wrote:
Shadaza wrote:Bradley Wiggins is a hero! With Cavendish and Frome as well British cycling has never looked stronger and we look in great shape for the Olympics too.

Yes I am bringing up the Olympics, problem Kostas?

No. You'll have one when Germany wins gold with Greipel having Martin as his leadout man

Haha oh dear! Do you have some sort of phobia of supporting your home team Kostas? Or are those aspirations of independence getting in the way again?

Martin isn't bad, but then again, you don't get much better preparation than the Tour do you?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 19:38

AndreaModa wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
Shadaza wrote:Bradley Wiggins is a hero! With Cavendish and Frome as well British cycling has never looked stronger and we look in great shape for the Olympics too.

Yes I am bringing up the Olympics, problem Kostas?

No. You'll have one when Germany wins gold with Greipel having Martin as his leadout man

Haha oh dear! Do you have some sort of phobia of supporting your home team Kostas? Or are those aspirations of independence getting in the way again?

Martin isn't bad, but then again, you don't get much better preparation than the Tour do you?

Team GB is bullshit. It's Team England. Don't give me crap about David Millar being 'Scottish', he was born in Malta. I will hope that Chavanel breaks and crushes the sprinters as a result, it's the only way he can beat Cavendish, by making sure there isn't a sprint finish.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Jul 2012, 19:50

Sorry, I wasn't able to fully read your post Kostas, I got distracted by that massive chip on your shoulder, and the inferiority complex that seems to cloud your judgments whenever it comes to Scotland and sport in general. Surely the lack of a Scottish rider in the road race team isn't that big a deal? I mean if you look percentage-wise at the population of the UK, of the total 62 million or so of us here, only 6 million are from Scotland. Therefore if you would like to see a bit more of a proportional representation, you've pretty much already got it, when you consider the success of Sir Chris Hoy and the coverage he receives. I mean he's favourite to be the athlete carrying the torch in the ceremony! It doesn't get much better than that!

I'll gloss over the fact that all the cyclists have to train in Manchester, regardless of where they're from, I wouldn't want to fan those flames!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 20:02

AndreaModa wrote:Sorry, I wasn't able to fully read your post Kostas, I got distracted by that massive chip on your shoulder, and the inferiority complex that seems to cloud your judgments whenever it comes to Scotland and sport in general. Surely the lack of a Scottish rider in the road race team isn't that big a deal? I mean if you look percentage-wise at the population of the UK, of the total 62 million or so of us here, only 6 million are from Scotland. Therefore if you would like to see a bit more of a proportional representation, you've pretty much already got it, when you consider the success of Sir Chris Hoy and the coverage he receives. I mean he's favourite to be the athlete carrying the torch in the ceremony! It doesn't get much better than that!

I'll gloss over the fact that all the cyclists have to train in Manchester, regardless of where they're from, I wouldn't want to fan those flames!

Cycling, Archery, Track, whatever, doesn't matter, I don't give a toss about countries at the Olympics. If Voeckler had been picked for the French team, I'd be supporting France in the Road Cycling races, but he hasn't, so I don't care much about it really.

Inferiority complex? Chip on shoulder? Where do you get these? I have no idea what you're talking about. When are you going to get that I just don't care about the Olympics, and therefore don't care about Team GB. I don't care about nationalities, I'm not proud to be Scottish or whatever, if I dislike something it has nothing to do with the country, I just genuinely don't care because I have zero interest in it. If the Olympics were in Glasgow or Edinburgh I'd feel the same way, I don't give a toss about the Commonwealth Games here and are quite angry we bid for it considering how much money will be wasted on it. I won't be buying tickets to any events in 2014 that is for sure.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Jul 2012, 20:28

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not too fussed about the Olympics either. I'll watch a bit of it, most of the cycling, and a few of the final races, but that's about it. I can't see how people can get so worked up and passionate about it, so in that sense I agree with you Kostas.

The reason I think you have a bit of an inferiority complex, is because you explicitly described it as 'Team England' rather than Team GB, a quite obvious statement that you feel English athletes are held in higher regard than their Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish counterparts. That doesn't mean to say you support Scottish athletes, you're just disappointed to see a perceived lack of Scottish athletes competing, whether that's in cycling, or whatever. This also explains why you're such a keen Inter Milan fan, rather than being interested in the frankly very weak Scottish football system, and support other sportsmen of differing nationalities when there is little interest from a Scottish perspective. To take cycling as an example, seeing as that's the thread we're in, you stated above that you don't particularly like Mark Cavendish, and have shown little support for Bradley Wiggins, or any of Team Sky over the course of this Tour. Instead you've chosen to support Voeckler, who is a rider most people like anyway, but you've deliberately gone out of your way to support him instead of the riders which share the same country as you do, which says it all really doesn't it? Maybe it's an underlying bias that's just part of your nature, but it's not hard to detect really when you look.

That's not to say it's a criticism. Each to their own at the end of the day. In fact it would be pretty crap if everyone was the same in who they supported and the reasons for doing so. I have no problem with who you support, and why, I just find it fascinating really because I've never been in that position myself!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 21:23

AndreaModa wrote:If it makes you feel any better, I'm not too fussed about the Olympics either. I'll watch a bit of it, most of the cycling, and a few of the final races, but that's about it. I can't see how people can get so worked up and passionate about it, so in that sense I agree with you Kostas.

The reason I think you have a bit of an inferiority complex, is because you explicitly described it as 'Team England' rather than Team GB, a quite obvious statement that you feel English athletes are held in higher regard than their Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish counterparts. That doesn't mean to say you support Scottish athletes, you're just disappointed to see a perceived lack of Scottish athletes competing, whether that's in cycling, or whatever. This also explains why you're such a keen Inter Milan fan, rather than being interested in the frankly very weak Scottish football system, and support other sportsmen of differing nationalities when there is little interest from a Scottish perspective. To take cycling as an example, seeing as that's the thread we're in, you stated above that you don't particularly like Mark Cavendish, and have shown little support for Bradley Wiggins, or any of Team Sky over the course of this Tour. Instead you've chosen to support Voeckler, who is a rider most people like anyway, but you've deliberately gone out of your way to support him instead of the riders which share the same country as you do, which says it all really doesn't it? Maybe it's an underlying bias that's just part of your nature, but it's not hard to detect really when you look.

That's not to say it's a criticism. Each to their own at the end of the day. In fact it would be pretty crap if everyone was the same in who they supported and the reasons for doing so. I have no problem with who you support, and why, I just find it fascinating really because I've never been in that position myself!

Voeckler has been on the ProTour since 2001. Wiggins only came onto my radar as a Road racer when he moved to Garmin. Before that I could only think of him in the velodrome. And I didn't like him in the past. He has matured in the last 12 months. And as for Cavendish, he could be French, Italian, Japanese, whatever, I'm not a fan because I'm not a fan of his cavalier attitude. Thomas V has always been down to earth. I like that. There is a difference between being a fan and having respect. I have recently gained respect for Wiggins, because he has matured as a rider and a person, but I am not a fan. This is why my heart was in the King of the Mountains battle this year. I have supported Voeckler for a long time (remember him battling with Armstrong for the yellow in 2004? That's pretty much when it started), and he shows qualities many other riders don't. He was offered twice his currently salary by Cofidis when Bbox Bouygues Telecom withdrew sponsorship from his team, but turned down this offer, to stay at the team he had been with his entire pro career. I admire that.

It is Team England, but that doesn't mean I'm complaining about the lack of Scottish athletes. I'm not surprised that there are far more English than there are Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish in the team, poplulation densities account for that, but why should I support something that is predominantly from another country than myself, for the sake of supporting my 'home' team? I don't buy into this idea that you have to support what is near you and what you were born into. I will support what I have a genuine feeling for, someone whom I actually care that wins or loses. In cycling, that means Thomas Voeckler, in football that means Inter Milan, in F1 that means Kobayashi. I have not and never will support anyone based on nationality alone. I mean, how do you feel when girls support a sports team/person because their uniform looks nice or they're good looking, or something ridiculous like that? To me that and nationality are one and the same, it's just a superficial attribute. I do support the Scottish football team, but it's not only because it's where I'm from - I actually care what the result is. I react with anguish when we screw up, I feel elation when we score, the double victory against France a few years ago was euphoria. But with Team GB I feel nothing. With Sky ProCycling, Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish, I feel nothing.

I guess you could say my way of thinking is rather too radical for most.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Jul 2012, 21:53

kostas22 wrote:I mean, how do you feel when girls support a sports team/person because their uniform looks nice or they're good looking, or something ridiculous like that?

Haha well you're not going to like me, I first started supporting Blackburn because I liked their kit having seen it in the sticker collection I had at the time, and I like Liquigas because I love the neon green/white/blue combo they've got going on! 8-)

Having said that, I know what you mean, supporting someone purely on nationality/liking a livery/etc. can sometimes suggest ignorance of the sport being followed, and often these sort of people are the bandwagon jumpers we all dislike, and I guess you could say that's a pretty big motive for liking the people/teams you do. It differentiates you from the mainstream, and gives you an identity. Arguably you could say that's why we're all here in the first place, supporting reject teams and drivers because very few else do, and so it makes us unique in a sense, and that is somewhat rewarding I suppose.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 21 Jul 2012, 22:14

AndreaModa wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I mean, how do you feel when girls support a sports team/person because their uniform looks nice or they're good looking, or something ridiculous like that?

Haha well you're not going to like me, I first started supporting Blackburn because I liked their kit having seen it in the sticker collection I had at the time, and I like Liquigas because I love the neon green/white/blue combo they've got going on!

Having said that, I know what you mean, supporting someone purely on nationality/liking a livery/etc. can sometimes suggest ignorance of the sport being followed, and often these sort of people are the bandwagon jumpers we all dislike, and I guess you could say that's a pretty big motive for liking the people/teams you do. It differentiates you from the mainstream, and gives you an identity. Arguably you could say that's why we're all here in the first place, supporting reject teams and drivers because very few else do, and so it makes us unique in a sense, and that is somewhat rewarding I suppose.

Indeed, many of us on here could be identified as the rejects of society. Reading your debate is interesting as I can see where both of you are coming from, as I too think the Olympics are a waste of time. The thing I like the most about F1Rejects is that at heart, everyone is a top bloke/girl, who make the forums a great place to discuss our biggest love (Formula One) with a humourous side too. The whole here at F1R is greater than the sum of it's parts, but only by a slim margin.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 21 Jul 2012, 22:23

pasta_maldonado wrote:Indeed, many of us on here could be identified as the rejects of society.

Um... excuse me?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Jul 2012, 23:14

AndreaModa wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I mean, how do you feel when girls support a sports team/person because their uniform looks nice or they're good looking, or something ridiculous like that?

Haha well you're not going to like me, I first started supporting Blackburn because I liked their kit having seen it in the sticker collection I had at the time, and I like Liquigas because I love the neon green/white/blue combo they've got going on!

Having said that, I know what you mean, supporting someone purely on nationality/liking a livery/etc. can sometimes suggest ignorance of the sport being followed, and often these sort of people are the bandwagon jumpers we all dislike, and I guess you could say that's a pretty big motive for liking the people/teams you do. It differentiates you from the mainstream, and gives you an identity. Arguably you could say that's why we're all here in the first place, supporting reject teams and drivers because very few else do, and so it makes us unique in a sense, and that is somewhat rewarding I suppose.

If anything, all the ridiculous bandwagon-jumping regarding this Tour de France put me off Team Sky and all its riders. Over a couple of weeks they went from a sporting niche to national heroes in this country. Where were 90% of this so called 'fan base' back when the team was launched and Wiggins only finished 24th? They are glory hunters, and I despise all of them. If Team Sky have a bad year next year, all of these people will be gone by the time the 2014 Tour comes around. They probably don't even understand the magnitude of what they are seeing. The fact that Wiggins has taken 60 years of British cycling history in Le Tour and single handedly bested all of it in the space of three weeks. He has changed the face of cycling in Britain forever, and all most people will think is "A BRITSH GUY IS WINNING SOMETHING!! HOORAY!! Oh wait, there's a British guy in another sport winning something five minutes after? FORGET WIGGINS, HOORAY FOR THE NEW GUY!!!"

And, if he'd ultimately been beaten by Nibali in the Pyrenees, you'd have seen people going "Typical, a Brit gets in a great position to win and bottles it. What a let down. Let's forget it ever happened and look to another sport." That would be, despite him breaking almost every British record in the Tour de France on the way to Paris.

This is why I identify with Italy more than my own nation. They have more passion. They are not fans of the bandwagon. People have backed Nibali there for a while now, well before this year when he came the closest ever to winning the Tour. OK, sure, they jump on bandwagons when it comes to F1 drivers, but for good reason, it's about who is driving for Ferrari, which are as close to national team for motor racing as you'll ever get.

I also just thought about a way to explain the Inter Milan thing. If you think about it, the fact I'm a fan of Inter and what the team stands for kind of makes sense. They formed after a faction of AC Milan were against the club's policy of hiring exclusively Italians to the team. Hence the Internazionale name. To Inter, nationality has never been a factor. Race has never been a factor. When in the 60s racism was still rife, and Inter hired Brazilian winger Jair da Costa, and instead of hostility, Il Capitano, Giacinto Facchetti, took him in personally to live in his own home. We were the first Italian team to ever have a foreign player captain our team, in Javier Zanetti. While he was not the first ever black player in the Italy national team (that was Fabio Liverani), Balotelli has become the first mainstay in the Italian national team of his race. And he was trained at Inter. We don't care about background, superficial details that don't make a real difference. In Italy, Inter is different, and the club is proud of that. While countless other clubs were proven to be implicated in Calciopoli and Calcioscommesse, we have not. The only exception is Ranocchia being questioned about when he played for Bari, and the question was about his team-mates, not accused of any wrongdoing himself. The club and I share the same values. We do not cheat. We do not discriminate. That has meant for periods of time we have been nowhere, but in the 90s I was happier we lost clean than won doping with EPO like Juventus did. Much like in cycling, where only recently the dopers have been forced to go clean and suffered as a result, Inter flourished when the cheaters were brought to justice and the playing field levelled. And this is why I am now, and always will be, an Interista.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 22 Jul 2012, 00:08

I thought I was the only Voeckler fan in the known universe. He is my favourite rider now that Robbie McEwen has retired.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 Jul 2012, 00:35

eurobrun wrote:I thought I was the only Voeckler fan in the known universe. He is my favourite rider now that Robbie McEwen has retired.

I think you should change 'the known universe' to Australia. France love him like a national hero. They don't call him Le Chouchou for nothing.
I really hope he wins a Grand Tour before he retires. It will be really tough for him to do it, but the organisers of next year's TdF will probably shove in a whole load of classic mountain stages to celebrate 100 years of Le Tour, and considering he won King of the Mountains, then maybe, just maybe, he has a chance. It would be fitting after all, for a Frenchman to win the 100th edition of the greatest bike race on earth on home soil...

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 22 Jul 2012, 00:38

kostas22 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:I thought I was the only Voeckler fan in the known universe. He is my favourite rider now that Robbie McEwen has retired.

I think you should change 'the known universe' to Australia. France love him like a national hero. They don't call him Le Chouchou for nothing.
I really hope he wins a Grand Tour before he retires. It will be really tough for him to do it, but the organisers of next year's TdF will probably shove in a whole load of classic mountain stages to celebrate 100 years of Le Tour, and considering he won King of the Mountains, then maybe, just maybe, he has a chance. It would be fitting after all, for a Frenchman to win the 100th edition of the greatest bike race on earth on home soil...

Yes, this would be awesome, I really hope it happens.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 22 Jul 2012, 19:45

Ultrasprint by Cavendish. Incredible.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 Jul 2012, 21:07

F1000X wrote:Ultrasprint by Cavendish. Incredible.

Sagan was closing in very quickly though - another 10 or 20 metres and it may have been a different story. I think if Cavendish wants to race for green again in the near future he will have to leave Sky. Perhaps for Orica GreenEdge, because they don't seem to have a lot of faith in Goss to be their main man, but have a good backbone for a lead-out train. They would be devastating with a proper sprint finisher. Although I fear for the day Sagan gets handed a leadout train, Daniel Oss aside he had almost no help from his own team yet still destroyed everyone this year.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 01 Aug 2012, 12:25

Jens Voigt has three contract offers for next season. Sky ProCycling, SaxoBank-Tinkoff and Radioshack-Nissan. If Froome leaves Sky it won't matter, because Jens will tell his legs to shut up and drag Wiggins across the whole of France on his own. He may be 40 but I don't see him retiring any time soon

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Aug 2012, 19:11

What legend. That guy never gives up, his interview after Schleck left the Tour this year was so up front and honest, he's a real character and I'd love to see him at Sky. It's going to be interesting to see if Froome will stay put or not, same with Cavendish. Sky are almost a victim of their own success really.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 01 Aug 2012, 23:16

kostas22 wrote:Jens Voigt has three contract offers for next season. Sky ProCycling, SaxoBank-Tinkoff and Radioshack-Nissan. If Froome leaves Sky it won't matter, because Jens will tell his legs to shut up and drag Wiggins across the whole of France on his own. He may be 40 but I don't see him retiring any time soon

How many Tours has he done now?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 01 Aug 2012, 23:59

eurobrun wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Jens Voigt has three contract offers for next season. Sky ProCycling, SaxoBank-Tinkoff and Radioshack-Nissan. If Froome leaves Sky it won't matter, because Jens will tell his legs to shut up and drag Wiggins across the whole of France on his own. He may be 40 but I don't see him retiring any time soon

How many Tours has he done now?

15. Two more and he equals Hincapie.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 02 Aug 2012, 00:49

kostas22 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Jens Voigt has three contract offers for next season. Sky ProCycling, SaxoBank-Tinkoff and Radioshack-Nissan. If Froome leaves Sky it won't matter, because Jens will tell his legs to shut up and drag Wiggins across the whole of France on his own. He may be 40 but I don't see him retiring any time soon

How many Tours has he done now?

15. Two more and he equals Hincapie.

I can see him breaking the record as he still has a few more years left in him.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 02 Aug 2012, 13:16

KCF have confirmed that Vincenzo Nibali has signed a two year contract at Astana. He is also bringing Liquigas domestiques Valerio Agnoli and Alessandro Vanotti with him. In theory, this would mean linking up with former Liquigas team-mate Roman Kreuziger, however he looks likely to end up at Saxo Bank next year.

It's not surprising really, what with Giuseppe Martinelli being Astana's new general manager. I expect he will raid Lampre for domestiques as well. Although apparently Jakob Fuglsang is near the top of their list, or so he says at least.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Aug 2012, 14:34

kostas22 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:I thought I was the only Voeckler fan in the known universe. He is my favourite rider now that Robbie McEwen has retired.

I think you should change 'the known universe' to Australia. France love him like a national hero. They don't call him Le Chouchou for nothing.
I really hope he wins a Grand Tour before he retires. It will be really tough for him to do it, but the organisers of next year's TdF will probably shove in a whole load of classic mountain stages to celebrate 100 years of Le Tour, and considering he won King of the Mountains, then maybe, just maybe, he has a chance. It would be fitting after all, for a Frenchman to win the 100th edition of the greatest bike race on earth on home soil...

Voeckler is not the Grand Tour winner type of guy. He isn't even considered to be a proper climber or a time trialist. He is a breakaway guy who happens to be gutsy enough to better fellow escapees in the mountains. Although he showed he can climb last year, it was incredibly hard and some sort of miraculous that he could keep the yellow for so long. He is some sort of Virenque post Festina scandal if you wish. Trouble is that teams are warned about him now and will prevent him from taking much time on a breakaway, which is the only way for him to win such a race. If you are looking at a French winner for next year, my bet would be Pierre Rolland or possibly John Gadret (a long shot this one). Thibaut Pinot is the most promising one but I am afraid he is still too young and lacking proper time trial abilities to avoid losing 3-4 minutes to chronic candidates in 50kms TTs. To conclude, Voeckler winning TdF (or any other Grand Tour) would be an upset of epic proportions only comparable to Maldonado winning the WDC in a Williams...