BBC "Classic F1" index for UK users

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 10:09

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 25 Sep 2009, 11:18

Thanks for the links, but I have one question: do you really need to pay the BBC fee to view them? I mean, if you had a PC with no TV you wouldn't be paying any fee but watching them anyway, isn't it?

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 11:31

muttley wrote:Thanks for the links, but I have one question: do you really need to pay the BBC fee to view them? I mean, if you had a PC with no TV you wouldn't be paying any fee but watching them anyway, isn't it?

Yes, but the TV licence fee pays for everything the BBC does, including putting all of this online. So that's one of the reasons - rights being the main one, of course - why they're only available to UK users.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 25 Sep 2009, 11:50

Paul Hayes wrote:
muttley wrote:Thanks for the links, but I have one question: do you really need to pay the BBC fee to view them? I mean, if you had a PC with no TV you wouldn't be paying any fee but watching them anyway, isn't it?

Yes, but the TV licence fee pays for everything the BBC does, including putting all of this online. So that's one of the reasons - rights being the main one, of course - why they're only available to UK users.

That is something the other TV broadcasters want changing. They arent happy because they have to charge for their online service where the BBC can offer it for free. I bet they wouldn't complain if they were the ones able to offer it for free.

By the way, nice list. I only found out about the "Classic races" feature a few races ago so this will let me go back and watch the rest easily!

Pedro_Diniz · Post by **Pedro_Diniz** » 25 Sep 2009, 11:52

It's moistening to think what is in those archives...

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 12:34

Pedro_Diniz wrote:It's moistening to think what is in those archives...

Almost certainly everything they showed in the 1980s. Probably a small patchwork of stuff from the 1970s, and next to nothing from before that.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 12:35

Tealy wrote:That is something the other TV broadcasters want changing. They arent happy because they have to charge for their online service where the BBC can offer it for free. I bet they wouldn't complain if they were the ones able to offer it for free.

Well, nobody's forcing anybody to charge for online services. I believe the ITV Player is a free, advertising-supported service, for example. (Unfortunately for them, however, the ITV Player is also crap).

Anyway, glad the list has proven useful for someone, at least!

dragonsteincole · Post by **dragonsteincole** » 25 Sep 2009, 13:31

Happy for this race, as they decided to have some proper great races on the archives this week. Dijon 79, Dallas 84 (great to see the track fall apart), Mexico 1990. Lush.

Pedro_Diniz · Post by **Pedro_Diniz** » 25 Sep 2009, 15:59

dragonsteincole wrote:Happy for this race, as they decided to have some proper great races on the archives this week. Dijon 79, Dallas 84 (great to see the track fall apart), Mexico 1990. Lush.

What's more wonderous is the commentary!

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 25 Sep 2009, 16:43

Paul Hayes wrote:
Pedro_Diniz wrote:It's moistening to think what is in those archives...

Almost certainly everything they showed in the 1980s. Probably a small patchwork of stuff from the 1970s, and next to nothing from before that.

You gotta remember that F1 wasn't really a TV-spectacle till the mid-seventies/early eighties, so it's just natural there isn't that much footage from eras before that, simply because they weren't filmed as exhaustively as they do nowadays.

Personally i'd love to see some of the 50's races... To actually SEE the great Fangio in action instead of just reading and hearing about him

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 16:55

DonTirri wrote:You gotta remember that F1 wasn't really a TV-spectacle till the mid-seventies/early eighties, so it's just natural there isn't that much footage from eras before that, simply because they weren't filmed as exhaustively as they do nowadays.

Plus the fact that the BBC didn't establish a videotape archive until 1978.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 25 Sep 2009, 19:18

They almost certainly do have all the Grands Prix that they broadcast from the 1970s onwards. I know this because most of the 70s ones (certainly all the British races) have been on the ESPN classic channel!

The fact that they keep saying that they're not in the archive is completely dishonest IMO, especially as most viewers wouldn't know otherwise. They clearly sold the rights to everything up to about 1980 to ESPN and couldn't show them. However, since the British GP weekend I don't think ESPN classic have shown any old motor racing so I'm guessing either the Beeb have bought the rights back or ESPN's agreement has expired. That's probably why Andrew Benson's suddenly 'remembered' where they are in the archive!!!!

I think I'm right in saying that up to 1979 it was British races plus a handful of others only though - usually the 'big' races ie Monaco, Monza. I also vaguely remember ITV showing some of the other races too in 1978 so they genuinely won't have the rights to those!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Sep 2009, 21:20

Barbazza wrote:They almost certainly do have all the Grands Prix that they broadcast from the 1970s onwards. I know this because most of the 70s ones (certainly all the British races) have been on the ESPN classic channel!

The fact that they keep saying that they're not in the archive is completely dishonest IMO, especially as most viewers wouldn't know otherwise. They clearly sold the rights to everything up to about 1980 to ESPN and couldn't show them. However, since the British GP weekend I don't think ESPN classic have shown any old motor racing so I'm guessing either the Beeb have bought the rights back or ESPN's agreement has expired. That's probably why Andrew Benson's suddenly 'remembered' where they are in the archive!!!!

I think I'm right in saying that up to 1979 it was British races plus a handful of others only though - usually the 'big' races ie Monaco, Monza. I also vaguely remember ITV showing some of the other races too in 1978 so they genuinely won't have the rights to those!

The BBC wouldn't have sold the ownership to their coverage of races to ESPN. They would have simply have sold ESPN the rights to show copies, a deal which would have been sorted by the BBC's commercial arm, BBC Worldwide, which is responsible for selling the BBC programme catalogue around the world.

The thing you have to remember about the BBC is that it's a very large and unwieldy organisation, and you should never put down to conspiracy what can be put down instead to incompetence. Yes, those 1970s British Grands Prix they wanted to put online should have shown up on an INFAX search, but for whatever reason they didn't. I seem to remember that I tried an INFAX search at the time Benson's article first went up as I was curious too, having seen recordings of the ESPN showings online, and I couldn't find them either.

But they certainly do exist, and I am sure they will be tracked down for use next year.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 26 Sep 2009, 20:11

Fair do's. A couple of my close friends work at the BBC so I am aware of the bureaucracy and occasional incompetency that goes on there so I can buy that!

It does however give me hope that there are some lost Doctor Who episodes around at the Beeb somewhere propping up a cupboard or something (and you too I guess Paul - sure I've seen you on the forum, I recognise that avatar!)

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 26 Sep 2009, 23:16

What is "Infax"?

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 27 Sep 2009, 04:09

thehemogoblin wrote:What is "Infax"?

The BBC's internal archive catalogue system.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 30 Sep 2009, 09:38

Here we are then with the Japanese additions (I have also added these to the master list above):

1976 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273448.stm
1989 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273451.stm
1994 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273473.stm
(Full "Grand Prix" programme - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273799.stm)
2000 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273479.stm
2005 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 273482.stm

The 1976 race is wonderful to see, although I'm not sure I understand how the commentary worked. It's a mix of Barrie Gill on the phone from Fuji, and Murray Walker clearly in a studio back in the UK doing a tube commentary. At first I thought Walker had been used to provide linking narration for a highlights programme, but he also appears to do some live off-tube commentary, so I wondered whether the BBC website had provided a mixture of BBC and ITV highlights, which would be odd. Possibly he was in studio as a back-up in case the link to Gill failed, as I remember John Motson once describing he was during the 1970 World Cup match between Brazil and England, in case the phone link to the commentator in Mexico went down.

Looking at the Times TV listings for that Sunday in 1976, neither channel seems to have covered the race live - BBC1 has twenty minutes of highlights scheduled from 3.55pm to 4.15pm, and ITV an hour and five minutes from 1.10pm to 2.15pm.

Presumably someone around here must remember watching and know what the story behind the combined Walker / Gill commentary on these highlights is?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 30 Sep 2009, 13:48

It's my inability to watch these videos that makes me want to travel back in time, find the 1916 Rising rebels and slap them silly.

It might alter the course of Irish history for the worse, but at least I could watch brief highlights of 20 year old F1 races.

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 30 Sep 2009, 14:13

Enjoyed the mildly significant appearances of Hideki Noda and Taki Inoue, among others, in the '94 Japanese GP!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 14 Oct 2009, 09:10

The Brazilian Grand Prix choices are now up:

1982 Brazilian Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304661.stm
(Full "Grand Prix" programme - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304656.stm)
1989 Brazilian Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304671.stm
1993 Brazilian Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304921.stm
1994 Brazilian Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304936.stm
2008 Brazilian Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 304965.stm

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 17 Oct 2009, 14:15

I remember watching Senna spinning off. I was 7!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 28 Oct 2009, 19:36

It's championship and season finales this week. With the added bonus of two full "Grand Prix" highlights shows:

1980 United States Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326367.stm
(full "Grand Prix" programme - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326701.stm)
1981 Las Vegas Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326401.stm
1983 South African Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326407.stm
1984 Portuguese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326412.stm
1988 Japanese Grand Prix - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326461.stm
(full "Grand Prix" programme - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 326702.stm)

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 28 Oct 2009, 20:39

I think its good the BBC show the old stuff. The only gripes I have is that the voters are largely Mansell-centric and (IMO, but my opinion only) anti-Schumi, so sometimes jingoism gets the nod

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Mar 2010, 20:51

The BBC are reviving the idea of showing highlights of 5 Grands Prix on the internet and red button in the lead-up to each GP this year.

In the lead-up to Bahrain, they will be showing last year's Bahrain GP, plus 4 classic season-openers:
-1978 Argentina
-1982 South Africa
-1984 Brazil
-1990 Phoenix.

On their forum, they give the chance to vote for one of these to be extended highlights, as explained:

for any newcomers, here's a brief explainer:

Ahead of each grand prix, we trawl the archives and come up with a selection of five classic races from the past.

You then let us know, by responding on this blog, which one of the five you would most like to see - and why. We will then use your comments to decide which race to highlight in the run-up to the relevant grand prix.

We will run the full BBC 'Grand Prix' highlights programme - if it exists - for each one we choose, as well as a shorter highlights package - normally in the region of five to nine minutes. The other four just get the shorter highlights.

Like last year, we cannot offer longer edits for races that were originally broadcast on ITV - i.e. from the years 1997 to 2008. But we have listened to your feedback and have done our best to limit the number of races we choose from where possible.

Please take time to read some of the comments left there - you really do get some muppets voting for races that have been shown last year and linked to previously in this thread, or just any old race. What are they thinking...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... rix_r.html

Post by **mario** » 04 Mar 2010, 21:30

dr-baker wrote:The BBC are reviving the idea of showing highlights of 5 Grands Prix on the internet and red button in the lead-up to each GP this year.

In the lead-up to Bahrain, they will be showing last year's Bahrain GP, plus 4 classic season-openers:
-1978 Argentina
-1982 South Africa
-1984 Brazil
-1990 Phoenix.

On their forum, they give the chance to vote for one of these to be extended highlights, as explained:

for any newcomers, here's a brief explainer:

Ahead of each grand prix, we trawl the archives and come up with a selection of five classic races from the past.

You then let us know, by responding on this blog, which one of the five you would most like to see - and why. We will then use your comments to decide which race to highlight in the run-up to the relevant grand prix.

We will run the full BBC 'Grand Prix' highlights programme - if it exists - for each one we choose, as well as a shorter highlights package - normally in the region of five to nine minutes. The other four just get the shorter highlights.

Like last year, we cannot offer longer edits for races that were originally broadcast on ITV - i.e. from the years 1997 to 2008. But we have listened to your feedback and have done our best to limit the number of races we choose from where possible.

Please take time to read some of the comments left there - you really do get some muppets voting for races that have been shown last year and linked to previously in this thread, or just any old race. What are they thinking...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... rix_r.html

If it is anything like last year, then there should be a few good races lined up along the way. However, one thing that I am interested in is the fact that most of the races chosen by the BBC during last year came from the 1980's to about 1995 (on average). What I wouldn't mind seeing, however, would be some of the even earlier races, where possible, such as when they showed the 1961 German GP. Surely they must have a bit more footage in the archives which could be shown off?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Mar 2010, 21:58

Well, they've got a late-'70s race this time round, and I remember they had a Stirling Moss Monaco victory last year. It is the earlier races I would be facinated to see, to fill gaps in my knowledge, and to see if racing really was better "in the good old days."

Post by **mario** » 04 Mar 2010, 22:15

dr-baker wrote:Well, they've got a late-'70s race this time round, and I remember they had a Stirling Moss Monaco victory last year. It is the earlier races I would be facinated to see, to fill gaps in my knowledge, and to see if racing really was better "in the good old days."

True - I've grown up in the modern F1 era, yet have heard a lot of people harking back to the old days and the older races. Truth be told, I have always been a little wary of believing people who make those sorts of claims, because I half suspect that nostalga means that they have forgotten the boring races, leaving only the memories of the exciting races - which leads them to conclude that all of the races were exciting.
But yes, it would be interesting to see what things were like when the sport was still in it's infancy. It would be appropriate, given that we are now celebrating the 60th anniversary of the sport, for the BBC to present some footage from the the very beginning, back in 1950, to mark the celebrations and to show how much tings have moved on in the meantime.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Mar 2010, 15:20

This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them :cry:

Post by **mario** » 05 Mar 2010, 15:36

Phoenix wrote:This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them

Well, that is down to the fact that the BBC only has permission from FOM to show the clips to UK users.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Mar 2010, 15:55

mario wrote:
Phoenix wrote:This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them

Well, that is down to the fact that the BBC only has permission from FOM to show the clips to UK users.

Damn it.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 05 Mar 2010, 16:00

Phoenix wrote:This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them

In fairness it is our taxpayer money that funds the BBC and it's services (including the iPlayer which this is from). However I don't know why they haven't tried to branch out into other markets under the BBC Worldwide monikor.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 05 Mar 2010, 16:57

Phoenix wrote:This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them

There are ways to access these videos outside UK, I just have to test them.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 05 Mar 2010, 17:27

I'm a UK user. Does anyone know if it is possible to download these races from the BBC website (or anywhere else for that matter)?

I've just got the license fee bill in £145!!!

for that I would expect a little downloading action.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 05 Mar 2010, 20:53

You can only download a race legally if it's on iPlayer (as opposed to the rest of the site, which would include the classic F1 stuff). In that case, clicking on the relevant race (within a week of broadcast - this is timed to the minute so be careful!) will reveal a selection of download options in the bottom-right-hand corner of the area where the race plays. Be careful which option you select because there can be up to three choices, which vary in quality and file size.

Your best shot with the classic F1 (legally) is to record it using your video/DVD player while watching it on the TV. Naturally this only works with the selections made available preceding a given race.

As for the illegal options, there are whole corners of the internet devoted to that, but it would be unethical and illegal for me to tell you where to find them.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 05 Mar 2010, 22:06

I just watched the 1989 Brazilian Grand Prix on the Classic F1 section. Racing was outstanding back then, as well as Gugelmin scoring a podium. :mrgreen:

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 06 Mar 2010, 06:14

I do not condone this, but:

Find a proxy in Britain.

Note: There are significant risks involved.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 06 Mar 2010, 08:07

Tealy wrote:
Phoenix wrote:This is a crap-only British users can enjoy them

In fairness it is our taxpayer money that funds the BBC and it's services (including the iPlayer which this is from). However I don't know why they haven't tried to branch out into other markets under the BBC Worldwide monikor.

In the case of F1, the international rights are not the BBC's to give, don't forget. They are the FIA's. Or FOM's, anyway.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 06 Mar 2010, 11:31

thehemogoblin wrote:I do not condone this, but:

Find a proxy in Britain.

Note: There are significant risks involved.

I'm no Internet expert. I only do the basics with it.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 07 Mar 2010, 20:34

Go here: http://www.your-freedom.net/

Download the prog and make a free account, after that run the program and set it to use the British server (use the wizard, or instructions from the site).

After that in your browser set the proxy to localhost, port: 1080
That's it you're browsing the internet via a british proxy with speed of 64kbit/s (you can pay for greater speeds if you like), HOWEVER even though 64 kbit/s is nowhere enough to stream video, while watching videos from BBC it will for some reason use your full bandwidth so when you start the video you can comfortably turn off the proxy and still be able to watch/rewind etc. the video. Just make sure you have the proxy turned on while accessing videos.

No risks involved.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 07 Mar 2010, 20:38

Mister Fungus wrote:Go here: http://www.your-freedom.net/

Download the prog and make a free account, after that run the program and set it to use the British server (use the wizard, or instructions from the site).

After that in your browser set the proxy to localhost, port: 1080
That's it you're browsing the internet via a british proxy with speed of 64kbit/s (you can pay for greater speeds if you like), HOWEVER even though 64 kbit/s is nowhere enough to stream video, while watching videos from BBC it will for some reason use your full bandwidth so when you start the video you can comfortably turn off the proxy and still be able to watch/rewind etc. the video. Just make sure you have the proxy turned on while accessing videos.

No risks involved.

Should we have that posted here? Or is it legal?