Provisional 2013 Calender Released

[TomWazzleshaw]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102674

No real surprises there. Korea is up for review yet again whilst Singapore, Germany and New Jersey are also subject to confirmation.

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

[madmark1974]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102674

No real surprises there. Korea is up for review yet again whilst Singapore, Germany and New Jersey are also subject to confirmation.

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

So Valencia's gone, to make way for USA2, and Spa is signed up for the next couple of years - is the German GP safe (can they even afford to run it next year)?

Although with the amount of German drivers and interests in F1, they'd have to be crazy to drop it ...

[AndreaModa]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102674

No real surprises there. Korea is up for review yet again whilst Singapore, Germany and New Jersey are also subject to confirmation.

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

So Valencia's gone, to make way for USA2, and Spa is signed up for the next couple of years - is the German GP safe (can they even afford to run it next year)?

Although with the amount of German drivers and interests in F1, they'd have to be crazy to drop it ...

If Spa hadn't signed that new deal, everyone would be saying they'd be the shoe-in to get replaced by Russia, but now I just don't know. I suspect Germany may get leant on a bit, but as you say it would be daft for them to give up the race there considering there's so much German interest in the championship at the moment.

I suspect we haven't the last about troubles with Barcelona, and if Bahrain causes more trouble then that could easily be swapped out, similarly with Korea. We knew they were struggling right from the off so it wouldn't be a surprise to see that one drop off the calender.

[Backmarker]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Well Bernie wants there to be 22 races a season, making room for Russia and one other. He often gets his way, so...

[TomWazzleshaw]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Well Bernie wants there to be 22 races a season, making room for Russia and one other. He often gets his way, so...

Nah. That'll be one step too far for Bernie as the teams are already pretty stretched as it is.

[Backmarker]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Well Bernie wants there to be 22 races a season, making room for Russia and one other. He often gets his way, so...

Nah. That'll be one step too far for Bernie as the teams are already pretty stretched as it is.

Maybe it's just his Bernie way of getting the teams to do what he wants. Ask for 22, 'compromise' on 21, thus getting what you originally wanted.

[Shizuka]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Hungaroring? Or... this might be a stretch: Barcelona?

[Warren Hughes]

There are big enough gaps in the calendar to fit in two more races - if Australia and maybe Malaysia were moved a week forward there would be space for another race before China, while the summer break is unnecessarily long as it stands and could easily be reduced by at least a week. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bernie get his way here.

[mario]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Hungaroring? Or... this might be a stretch: Barcelona?

Barcelona is struggling a little - even though Alonso's ability to attract the crowds is still strong, the attendance figures are still on the slide. The reports from the time indicate that turnout was around 80,000 on race day - still reasonably healthy, but below the target of the organisers (who were reportedly hoping for closer to 100,000), and trailing behind some of the newer races too. Mind you, it probably wouldn't do much for FOM's bottom line either if they axed the Spanish GP, particularly if Alonso remains as competitive as he is now - there might be something of a slight resurgence in the sport if Alonso wins the title this year.

If anything, I would have thought that the more likely race to be dropped would be the Korean GP - they are in financial trouble and have tried to renegotiate terms with FOM due to a shortfall in funding, whilst their long term development plans appear to have ground to a halt at the moment. Similarly, FOM will be aware about the image problems that have plagued the track, from the repeated headlines about the trouble they they had during construction through to complaints about festering rubbish left in the garages last year, and it hasn't really drawn in any new sponsors despite the attempts to promote the event.
All in all, I can see that race being dropped sooner rather than later, especially if there are further problems with fee payments being late - that would give FOM a useful reason for declining to renew their contract with the circuit owners if they so wished. Mind you, Backmarker is right to point out that Bernie might be trying to find a way to keep extending the calendar even further, and could be aiming to add a Russian GP to the list rather than displacing an existing race.

[AdrianSutil]

Sadly, I'd agree it might be Korea that gets the chop. And what happened to the rumours about Germany and Belgium doing a yearly rotation? Or was that just a rumour?

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

[Backmarker]

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

[pasta_maldonado]

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room. I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

[AndreaModa]

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room. I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

I do, and I'm sure all of the car manufacturers and sponsors do too. The Chinese GP won't be dropped for a very long time, because of its value. It has a huge potential audience and that's not something F1 can afford to miss out on. It's for that exact reason that we're going back to America this year, and will have two races there from 2014 onwards. If the Korean GP isn't dropped, I could see why too, because there's plenty of sponsor interest and a quickly developing middle class with disposable income and a high standard of living in the country, but if they can't meet the fees then that pretty much decides it. Looks like a French GP is unlikely at the moment, certainly for 2013, maybe they'll get one organised for 2014 I don't know. As far as companies are concerned, Europe is a pretty dead market right now. There's very little money about, lots of unemployment, and very little opportunity to make money. The real business is in the emerging markets and the US. I'm talking China, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc.

[mario]

Sadly, I'd agree it might be Korea that gets the chop. And what happened to the rumours about Germany and Belgium doing a yearly rotation? Or was that just a rumour?

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

Originally the owners of Spa wanted to alternate with either the owners of Hockenheim or the Nurburgring to cut costs, but that deal was abandoned when the two German circuits decided that it'd make more sense to alternate the German GP and let Valencia hold the European GP instead.
However, they may try to revive that deal due to the uncertainty surrounding the long term financial stability of the company running the Nurburgring - Hockenheim probably couldn't afford to hold the race on an annual basis, especially since attendance figures for the German GP have been in decline in recent years (the Spanish GP might have only pulled in about 80,000 on race day, but at Hockenheim the attendance was just 62,000).

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room. I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

Personally, I think that the Chinese GP is worth keeping on the calendar - the races in the past few years have actually been fairly decent, plus, by marked contrast with most of the venues in Europe, attendance figures have actually been holding up pretty well in recent years (it has been around the 80,000-90,000 mark in the past few years now that the tickets are more reasonably priced) and the sport does seem to be growing in popularity there.

[14 Hundred Hours]

2014 will be real interesting though because something HAS to give way for the Russian GP otherwise the teams will have a stroke at the thought of 21 races.

Well Bernie wants there to be 22 races a season, making room for Russia and one other. He often gets his way, so...

...stop him before he makes it reality!? I've just learnt all about "carrying capacity" in biology today, and I think it can be applied here. There must be a limit to how many races per year there can be. For one thing the teams (bar the drivers) would be so busy they'd have to pretty much say goodbye to their family time. Or non-family time, but either way those guys (and girls!) are pushed as it is. For another wouldn't another two races screw up the whole 'certain number of gearboxes per race etc' thing? I don't know whether the extra races would mean an extra gearbox/engine per car a year, but if so that's kind of counter-productive to the whole idea of clamping down on spending. (That being said, I don't know how much extra gearboxes would set the teams back. Maybe a small amount compared to the grand scheme of things, but still).

[pasta_maldonado]

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room. I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

I do, and I'm sure all of the car manufacturers and sponsors do too. The Chinese GP won't be dropped for a very long time, because of its value. It has a huge potential audience and that's not something F1 can afford to miss out on. It's for that exact reason that we're going back to America this year, and will have two races there from 2014 onwards. If the Korean GP isn't dropped, I could see why too, because there's plenty of sponsor interest and a quickly developing middle class with disposable income and a high standard of living in the country, but if they can't meet the fees then that pretty much decides it. Looks like a French GP is unlikely at the moment, certainly for 2013, maybe they'll get one organised for 2014 I don't know. As far as companies are concerned, Europe is a pretty dead market right now. There's very little money about, lots of unemployment, and very little opportunity to make money. The real business is in the emerging markets and the US. I'm talking China, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc.

Good points AndreaModa, maybe my post was a little un-educated

[roblo97]

Found this on Wikipedia just now
Proposed races

In March 2012, Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner announced plans for a revivial of the Argentine Grand Prix, outlining details of a three-year contract

starting in late 2013. [48][49] The proposal would see the event take place on a street

circuit in the city of Mar del Plata, [50][51]

with a proposed route running around the Base Naval de Mar del Plata and its

breakwater. [52] Bernie Ecclestone had previously floated the idea of Mar del Plata as a potential host venue for the renewed

Argentine Grand Prix in May 2009. [53]

It has been reported [54] that the French Grand Prix will return to the calendar after a four-year absence, with the race moving to the Circuit Paul Ricard. The proposal would see the race alternate with a second venue under a similar arrangement to the event-sharing arrangement utilised by circuits

hosting the German Grand Prix. [55] In April 2012, Bernie Ecclestone told reporters that the deal that would see the return of the French Grand Prix "is done" and that the race will utilise the "full version" of the

circuit's one hundred and sixty-seven [56]

configurations. [57] In May 2012, it was further reported that the election of François Hollande as President of France

had put the future of the race in doubt, [32]

with sources claiming that Hollande's Socialist Party was lobbying to see the race return to the Circuit de Nevers in Magny-

Cours. [58] Bernie Ecclestone was further reported as being opposed to holding the

race at Magny-Cours. [59]

In June 2012, the London Legacy Development Company and Bernie Ecclestone announced that they had been approached with a proposal for a Grand Prix to be held at the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park following the 2012 London Olympic

Games. [61] Ecclestone later declared his

willingness to personally fund the event, [62]

admitting that he had previously attempted to establish a race in the City of Westminster, but the attempt had failed

because of the cost. [63] British drivers Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton

displayed enthusiasm for the idea, [60] while London mayor Boris Johnson expressed his

support for the proposal

Also read that Mexico has apparently been confirmed for next according to a Spanish sports newspaper but I have no idea about Argentina or Mexico so please feel free to correct me if I'm very much mistaken

[roblo97]

Edit: Just noticed there's a three week gap between Silverstone and Nurburgring, then two in a week, then the summer break. Wtf is up with that?!

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

That would be a good idea if they used this

http://theracingline.net/racingcircuits ... index.html

[roblo97]

I wouldn't be sad if they got rid of Bahrain because of the human rights issues and the same with Korea because I feel that f1 is being used as a brand out there and the circuit is actually pretty crap because sector 1 is far to long and sector 3 is far to tight and the same with any dhabi because the circuit is a boring crappy built by people who I feel don't care about the entertainment factor of the sport so there is ny reason why f1 should use some of the old circuits but just modernised

[eagleash]

According to 5live, during today's coverage, there's a press conference tomorrow (Saturday) regarding the future of the Singapore GP. Think it's at 7PM local time; so after quali.
Timing would suggest that it is unlikely to be bad news for the event.

[Backmarker]

According to 5live, during today's coverage, there's a press conference tomorrow (Saturday) regarding the future of the Singapore GP. Think it's at 7PM local time; so after quali.
Timing would suggest that it is unlikely to be bad news for the event.

I would bet my own pancreas that they're announcing a new multi-year deal.

[eagleash]

According to 5live, during today's coverage, there's a press conference tomorrow (Saturday) regarding the future of the Singapore GP. Think it's at 7PM local time; so after quali.
Timing would suggest that it is unlikely to be bad news for the event.

I would bet my own pancreas that they're announcing a new multi-year deal.

Yep!

(Scalpel on stand by just in case)

[shinji]

I wouldn't be sad if they got rid of Bahrain because of the human rights issues and the same with Korea because I feel that f1 is being used as a brand out there and the circuit is actually pretty crap because sector 1 is far to long and sector 3 is far to tight and the same with any dhabi because the circuit is a boring crappy built by people who I feel don't care about the entertainment factor of the sport so there is ny reason why f1 should use some of the old circuits but just modernised

Jaysus I had to take a deep breath after reading that!

[TomWazzleshaw]

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room. I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

I do, and I'm sure all of the car manufacturers and sponsors do too. The Chinese GP won't be dropped for a very long time, because of its value. It has a huge potential audience and that's not something F1 can afford to miss out on. It's for that exact reason that we're going back to America this year, and will have two races there from 2014 onwards. If the Korean GP isn't dropped, I could see why too, because there's plenty of sponsor interest and a quickly developing middle class with disposable income and a high standard of living in the country, but if they can't meet the fees then that pretty much decides it. Looks like a French GP is unlikely at the moment, certainly for 2013, maybe they'll get one organised for 2014 I don't know. As far as companies are concerned, Europe is a pretty dead market right now. There's very little money about, lots of unemployment, and very little opportunity to make money. The real business is in the emerging markets and the US. I'm talking China, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc.

Good points AndreaModa, maybe my post was a little un-educated

Little un-educated? Dude, Economics 101 says Bahrain and Abu Dhabi HAVE to stay on the calender for Bernie to not jack up the fees of all the European races.

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't be sad if they got rid of Bahrain because of the human rights issues and the same with Korea because I feel that f1 is being used as a brand out there and the circuit is actually pretty crap because sector 1 is far to long and sector 3 is far to tight and the same with any dhabi because the circuit is a boring crappy built by people who I feel don't care about the entertainment factor of the sport so there is ny reason why f1 should use some of the old circuits but just modernised

Jaysus I had to take a deep breath after reading that!

thehemogoblin would have suffered a heart attack after reading this if he was still here.

[AndreaModa]

Good points AndreaModa, maybe my post was a little un-educated

Little un-educated? Dude, Economics 101 says Bahrain and Abu Dhabi HAVE to stay on the calender for Bernie to not jack up the fees of all the European races.

I apologise for coming over a bit heavy with my post there Pasta, but in my opinion you're spot on about Bahrain and Abu Dhabi.

Wizzie my friend, they may indeed pay over the odds for their races, but that doesn't make them a shoe-in for a calender slot, because if money was the problem, then we'd have a calender full of Middle East and Asian tracks, and no representation from Europe, or North America for that matter. The reality is that the sponsors, and particularly the car manufacturers involved with F1, want races where they can advertise to a sizeable audience. You could have all the races you wanted in the Gulf, but you wouldn't have any teams to race because none of the sponsors or car makers would be interested, because the combined population of those countries probably doesn't even amount to a tenth of China's. Bernie doesn't need to charge stupidly high race fees to the circuit owners - he does because he can, hence why the Arab nations pay so much more, because the governments there don't know what to do with all their money. He needs to service the debt CVC are burdened with, but that's effectively what he's employed to do, but if CVC really were in dire straits then they would have walked away from F1 a long time ago and cut their losses.

Bernie knows damn well that F1 will only succeed if he maintains a strong European presence, whilst keeping races in strong markets like China, the US, India, and emerging markets like Brazil and Russia. It surprises me that a Mexican race hasn't been considered more seriously as of now, and I would bet money that it will be on the calender within the next few years, Perez and Guttierez driving or not. This is also why I'm of the belief that there'll be a race in Africa before too long, the likely bet is South Africa, but I wouldn't rule out somewhere like Ghana, Nigeria or Kenya as well. They're all beginning to grow quickly, and are demonstrating all the signs of a population boom and an expanding middle class with disposable income. Car companies and sponsors will want exposure there, just like they do now with China and the US. They want their logos to be where the money is, and that isn't Bahrain or Abu Dhabi, because they're just small fries, even compared to the saturated and financially unstable European markets.

He'll take the Arabs' money while he can because he's a businessman, but as soon as there are better prospects elsewhere, they'll be straight off the calender. Imagine if Bahrain was in a similar situation to Spa. Money is tight, the Sheik wants a reduction, and he tells Bernie that he can't meet the race fee for the next season. You think Bernie's going to bend over for a race no-one cares about and has no history and no substance?

[Boomstick]

Well maybe they will drop Melbourne? I mean every year there is always this big tiff over how much the Melbourne GP looses to the Victorian tax payer, and to be totally honest it is a slowly dying event.....

.....and if you think I'm saying this out of spite....well yes there is a bit of spite in there....not all of it tho!

[Captain Hammer]

A seductive little space to slip a French grand prix into...

It's been suggested, but I think it's unlikely. Rantin' Joe Saward reckons that it's a possibility, and he seems to think that Turkey could be on the 2013 calendar, too. Bt I have no idea where Turkey might fit in. Maybe between Bahrain and Barcelona?

Get rid of the Bahrain, Chinese, Abu Dhabi, Korean Gps and there's plenty of room.

Why China? The last few races have been great, and the race is starting to attract large crowds.

I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

Except that it's the Formula 1 World Championship, not the Formula 1 European Championship.

Well maybe they will drop Melbourne? I mean every year there is always this big tiff over how much the Melbourne GP looses to the Victorian tax payer, and to be totally honest it is a slowly dying event.....

The cost of the Grand Prix is a favourite target for incoming politicians who want to make a name for themselves. Claiming that they will be the one to take Bernie to town and cut a much better deal for the city is the quickest and easiest way to get a headline. So far, Bernie has remained unmoved.

[pasta_maldonado]

This is also why I'm of the belief that there'll be a race in Africa before too long, the likely bet is South Africa, but I wouldn't rule out somewhere like Ghana, Nigeria or Kenya as well.

They did return to South Africa after Apartheid but apart from the bastardization of Kyalami what drove F1 off? If they can build a new circuit or renovate an existing one the race would be a good addition to te calendar.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

This is also why I'm of the belief that there'll be a race in Africa before too long, the likely bet is South Africa, but I wouldn't rule out somewhere like Ghana, Nigeria or Kenya as well.

They did return to South Africa after Apartheid but apart from the bastardization of Kyalami what drove F1 off? If they can build a new circuit or renovate an existing one the race would be a good addition to te calendar.

This is the solution

[Captain Hammer]

Phakisa is good for bikes ... and little else.

[TomPryce]

The Singapore GP has been extended to 2017. That was expected.

[Captain Hammer]

Got a source for that, if only so I can update the 2013 Wikipedia page?

[eagleash]

Got a source for that, if only so I can update the 2013 Wikipedia page?

Yes but you won't like it

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/09/ ... t-to-2017/

[AndreaModa]

It's okay, Autosport are running it too.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102738

[Captain Hammer]

Yes but you won't like it

Eh, got it from Keith Collantine first.

[TomPryce]

Sorry, I couldnt get a source at the time because I LITERALLY only heard it from the comm team at the end of the BBC's coverage of Free Practice 3.

[Mister Fungus]

This is the solution

Wasn't there recently talk about a street track in Cape Town I think that would go around a football stadium?

[roblo97]

This is the solution

Wasn't there recently talk about a street track in Cape Town I think that would go around a football stadium?

are you on about this circuit arround the cape town stadium

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/166095/1/c ... 1_bid.html

looks like quite a good circuit to me

[SuperAguri]

I don't see a problem with F1 being Europe-orientated.

Except that it's the Formula 1 World Championship, not the Formula 1 European Championship.

Indeed we have all those worldwide teams based in the UK, Italy, Spain and Switzerland... erm... well we have engine suppliers based in the UK, Italy and France... erm I know the Tyre supplier based in Italy... erm this is not really working is it... :p