2014 Silly Season Thread

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 15 Oct 2012, 08:25

What do we make of this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541

Vettel to Ferrari for 2014 claims the BBC.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 15 Oct 2012, 09:31

It's one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" things. Personally I don't think Vettel wants to leave Red Bull/Newey, I don't think Alonso wants Vettel, and I don't think Ferrari want to upset Alonso. For me, Hulkenberg is looking to be likely to drive for Ferrari in 2014. If I put a guess up now, everyone can laugh at me in 2014:

Caterham
Pic
Rossi

Enstone
Raikkonen
Grosjean

Ferrari
Alonso
Hulkenberg

Force India
Alguersuari
Di Resta

HRT
Petrov
Clos

Marussia
Glock
Chilton

Mercedes
Hamilton
Rosberg

McLaren
Button
Perez

Red Bull
Vettel
Ricciardo

Sauber
Kovalainen
Gutierrez

Toro Rosso
Da Costa
Kvyat

Williams
Maldonado
Bottas

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 15 Oct 2012, 09:51

... can we please not have the 2014 Silly Season thread before the 2013 one is officially over?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Oct 2012, 12:49

Ross Prawn wrote:What do we make of this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541

Vettel to Ferrari for 2014 claims the BBC.

Autosport or it hasn't happened. And guess what? Autosport states it hasn't yet happened.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 15 Oct 2012, 13:02

dr-baker wrote:
Ross Prawn wrote:What do we make of this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541

Vettel to Ferrari for 2014 claims the BBC.

Autosport or it hasn't happened. And guess what? Autosport states it hasn't yet happened.

Autosport gives no editorial opinion either way in that article.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Oct 2012, 13:26

Ed24 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Ross Prawn wrote:What do we make of this??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941541

Vettel to Ferrari for 2014 claims the BBC.

Autosport or it hasn't happened. And guess what? Autosport states it hasn't yet happened.

Autosport gives no editorial opinion either way in that article.

But there is definitely no confirmation of any contract there, or even of any immediate interest in him...

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 15 Oct 2012, 13:44

Of course there's no confirmation yet because if anything, it's likely only a pre-agreement with exit clauses before the deal would be finalised.

And furthermore, Ferrari have a history of denying contracts (Raikkonen, Alonso etc.) so you can hardly take his words solely on face value. Also, Ferrari do have a history of signing drivers about 18 months before they commence, so the timing of these rumours would be about right.

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 15 Oct 2012, 14:37

German driver winning in an Italian car at Monza.

Yeah, Vettel already ticked off that box back in 2008.

Unless Red Bull plans to fire and/or kill Newey, cancel their contract with Renault, and pull out in 2014, he'd be wiser to stay put.

Ferrari has a great history, but there's no point in driving for them and putting up with their crap if they're not consistently P1 material.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 15 Oct 2012, 16:21

The BBC clearly are one step ahead of everyone else due to their vast array of contacts. Hamilton going to Mercedes was a big surprise and Jordan deserves a lot of credit for finding that out. The Hulkenburg rumor appears to be true too.

I don't think Vettel has made his mind up yet though. Certainly a big blow for Red Bull if true.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 15 Oct 2012, 16:25

TheBigJ wrote:The BBC clearly are one step ahead of everyone else due to their vast array of contacts. Hamilton going to Mercedes was a big surprise and Jordan deserves a lot of credit for finding that out. The Hulkenburg rumor appears to be true too.

I don't think Vettel has made his mind up yet though. Certainly a big blow for Red Bull if true.

Than I suppose the news that Hulkenberg is going to Sauber should be taken seriously then? I was hoping it was just a rumor... :cry:

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 15 Oct 2012, 16:35

tristan1117 wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:The BBC clearly are one step ahead of everyone else due to their vast array of contacts. Hamilton going to Mercedes was a big surprise and Jordan deserves a lot of credit for finding that out. The Hulkenburg rumor appears to be true too.

I don't think Vettel has made his mind up yet though. Certainly a big blow for Red Bull if true.

Than I suppose the news that Hulkenberg is going to Sauber should be taken seriously then? I was hoping it was just a rumor...

Lets just say its more than just a rumour at this stage. The second seat at Sauber is the one that the BBC haven't committed to, "tipping" Gutierrez.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 16 Oct 2012, 10:29

McDuck wrote:Ferrari has a great history, but there's no point in driving for them and putting up with their crap if they're not consistently P1 material.

Jean Alesi

That is all.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 Oct 2012, 11:28

kostas22 wrote:
McDuck wrote:Ferrari has a great history, but there's no point in driving for them and putting up with their crap if they're not consistently P1 material.

Jean Alesi

That is all.

Also Gilles Villeneuve.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 16 Oct 2012, 11:31

I don't see Vettel going to Ferrari as something impossible. He's already won two titles and might be on his way to a third, so going to Ferrari and trying to win there can be a very seductive proposition for him. Besides, he's spent a good few years with Red Bull already. Nothing motivates like a new challenge. It's going to happen if Alonso gives his approval.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Oct 2012, 11:53

Phoenix wrote:I don't see Vettel going to Ferrari as something impossible. He's already won two titles and might be on his way to a third, so going to Ferrari and trying to win there can be a very seductive proposition for him. Besides, he's spent a good few years with Red Bull already. Nothing motivates like a new challenge. It's going to happen if Alonso gives his approval.

All true. But I will add that I doubt Vettel will add new championships to his tally after moving to Ferrari... Alonso isn't making it, so I don't think it is Vettel who will be making it.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 16 Oct 2012, 11:59

Part of the reason I'm fascinated to see this move is where it will leave Red Bull with drivers - Webber will be due to retire in a couple of seasons, and I can;t see Hamilton giving up on Mercedes after one season, or Button wanting to leave McLaren, so will they have to have two junior drivers for 2014 (or Webber and a junior driver)?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 16 Oct 2012, 12:01

DanielPT wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I don't see Vettel going to Ferrari as something impossible. He's already won two titles and might be on his way to a third, so going to Ferrari and trying to win there can be a very seductive proposition for him. Besides, he's spent a good few years with Red Bull already. Nothing motivates like a new challenge. It's going to happen if Alonso gives his approval.

All true. But I will add that I doubt Vettel will add new championships to his tally after moving to Ferrari... Alonso isn't making it, so I don't think it is Vettel who will be making it.

Alonso hasn't managed to do it because Ferrari hasn't been able to build consistently good cars for the past two years. In 2010, when they had a real contender in the F10, they screwed up at the last race on strategy.

Remember Michael Schumacher joined Ferrari in 1996 and it took him until 2000 to win a title with Ferrari. It was all because Williams and McLaren built faster cars and Schumacher spent too many time trying to keep up. But they should produce another great car sometime, and who knows if Vettel will be there to benefit...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 16 Oct 2012, 12:04

James1978 wrote:Part of the reason I'm fascinated to see this move is where it will leave Red Bull with drivers - Webber will be due to retire in a couple of seasons, and I can;t see Hamilton giving up on Mercedes after one season, or Button wanting to leave McLaren, so will they have to have two junior drivers for 2014 (or Webber and a junior driver)?

Ricciardo and Vergne should already be hardened by 2014. The question, though, will be if they will be able to perform consistently at the level of Vettel. And, more importantly, that Newey doesn't get bored with Red Bull or F1.

Post by **mario** » 16 Oct 2012, 12:12

McDuck wrote:German driver winning in an Italian car at Monza.

Yeah, Vettel already ticked off that box back in 2008.

Unless Red Bull plans to fire and/or kill Newey, cancel their contract with Renault, and pull out in 2014, he'd be wiser to stay put.

Ferrari has a great history, but there's no point in driving for them and putting up with their crap if they're not consistently P1 material.

The terms that have been suggested by the BBC do have a performance related clause - the indication is that Ferrari can only utilise their option if they achieve certain performance goals (i.e. their position in the WCC) in 2013, so, if the rumours are true, Vettel isn't making the switch without ensuring that he will still have a competitive car.

James1978 wrote:Part of the reason I'm fascinated to see this move is where it will leave Red Bull with drivers - Webber will be due to retire in a couple of seasons, and I can;t see Hamilton giving up on Mercedes after one season, or Button wanting to leave McLaren, so will they have to have two junior drivers for 2014 (or Webber and a junior driver)?

It would be awkward for Red Bull to be a top ranking team without one of the higher rated drivers in the sport and no competitive alternative choice from their young driver program to move into the senior team. I think that Red Bull would probably go with Webber and the better of their current junior drivers - Webber has indicated that he would be interested in staying on for a few more years, and it may be the case that Red Bull need him there to provide some sort of continuity.
Mind you, they could go for a slightly left field option instead - Kimi's contract with Lotus ends in 2013, and his stint there suggests that he is still pretty competitive - might they try to pick Kimi up if Vettel does head for Ferrari?

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 16 Oct 2012, 12:26

KImi makes a lot of sense to be honest.

I'd be disgusted at Hamilton if he gave up on Merc after one season so he could hop into a Red Bull........not beyong the realms of possibility though.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 17 Oct 2012, 00:33

Didn't Kimi have Red Bull sponsorship a while ago?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 17 Oct 2012, 01:03

eurobrun wrote:Didn't Kimi have Red Bull sponsorship a while ago?

He did for his first season in the WRC. There was never anything more to it than Red Bull looking to get a bit more coverage because a former Formula 1 World Champion competing in the WRC was sure to attract more attention. It was the Raikkonen fanboys who read far too much into things.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:01

For 2014

Webber will join Ferrari.

Raikkonen will replace Webber at Red Bull.

Vettel will stay at Red Bull.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:06

I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:10

I really can't see the logic of Webber going to Ferrari in 2014. Why would they take him over Hulkenberg for example, if they don't have Vettel?

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:23

Ed24 wrote:I really can't see the logic of Webber going to Ferrari in 2014. Why would they take him over Hulkenberg for example, if they don't have Vettel?

@CaptainHammer True. But Raikkonen would only be a stop gap for da Costa. 2014 is a bit too soon for da Costa to drive for RBR. Vettel would also want Raikkonen as his team mate I'd imagine since they get along well in private. Vergne and Ricciardo will never drive for RBR, that is my guess.

@Ed24 Well Alonso and Webber are good friends. Webber would be an ideal Ferrari driver. It would be like the 90's again with Alonso = Schumacher and Webber = Irvine, but better. And I believe Hulkenberg will sign 2 year deal with Sauber so that makes him unavailable for 2014.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 17 Oct 2012, 09:33

Alonso-Webber would be Briatore's dream partnership. I'm surprised that the two didn't end up at Renault together at some point between 2003 and 2006.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 17 Oct 2012, 10:36

Benetton wrote:True. But Raikkonen would only be a stop gap for da Costa.

Better that they get one of their own.

When Perez moved to McLaren, his Ferrari Driver Academy contract was "not a problem". There was absolutely no fuss in getting him - Hamilton allegedly signed the Mercedes contract only days before it was announced, and McLaren were still able to get Perez and announce it to the world before Hamilton's Mercedes contract was made public. The implication is that teams cannot write contracts with their young drivers that bind them to the team - if they want out or if another team want them, they cannot be made to stay. The team and the driver program, while operated by the same people, are completely separate entities.

If Red Bull took Raikkonen for a year, they would likely lose every driver in their stable to other teams who will say "Sure, they say they'll only take Raikkonen for a year ..." and then pinch them away from the YDP. It's exactly what McLaren did with Perez.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 17 Oct 2012, 10:45

Backmarker wrote:Alonso-Webber would be Briatore's dream partnership. I'm surprised that the two didn't end up at Renault together at some point between 2003 and 2006.

Briatore tried to persuade Webber to move there in 2005 to replace Trulli/Villeneuve. But Webber thought Williams would be the better choice.

Oh dear.

Post by **Ataxia** » 17 Oct 2012, 10:58

kostas22 wrote:
Backmarker wrote:Alonso-Webber would be Briatore's dream partnership. I'm surprised that the two didn't end up at Renault together at some point between 2003 and 2006.

Briatore tried to persuade Webber to move there in 2005 to replace Trulli/Villeneuve. But Webber thought Williams would be the better choice.

Oh dear.

REALLY? Double oh dear...

Post by **mario** » 17 Oct 2012, 11:43

Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

As for Webber and Ferrari, that is an interesting question - we know that Webber is on good personal terms with Alonso and there probably wouldn't be too much friction between the two drivers, but on the other hand Webber did mention earlier in the year, when he talked about the deal he struck with Red Bull, that he was considering committing to Red Bull for multiple years when his contract expires in 2013. He might be open to moving to Ferrari - the fact that he had talks with them this year shows that there is some interest at least - but he seems happier to stay put at Red Bull for the foreseeable future.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 17 Oct 2012, 12:48

mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

Don't forget Klien and Liuzzi (and since you're counting Bourdais; Robert Doornbos). Unless you happen to be Sebastien Vettel, being a Red Bull young driver actually seems to make it more difficult to progress in F1.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 17 Oct 2012, 13:23

IdeFan wrote:
mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

Don't forget Klien and Liuzzi (and since you're counting Bourdais; Robert Doornbos). Unless you happen to be Sebastien Vettel, being a Red Bull young driver actually seems to make it more difficult to progress in F1.

The whole thing is, if you have an average season with other teams, you usually stay right where you are, but with Toro Rosso you get dropped.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 17 Oct 2012, 17:13

IdeFan wrote:
mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

Don't forget Klien and Liuzzi (and since you're counting Bourdais; Robert Doornbos). Unless you happen to be Sebastien Vettel, being a Red Bull young driver actually seems to make it more difficult to progress in F1.

And Enrique Bernoldi.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 17 Oct 2012, 20:33

quote="Backmarker"]

IdeFan wrote:
mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

Don't forget Klien and Liuzzi (and since you're counting Bourdais; Robert Doornbos). Unless you happen to be Sebastien Vettel, being a Red Bull young driver actually seems to make it more difficult to progress in F1.

And Enrique Bernoldi.[/quote]
And Norberto Fontana

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 18 Oct 2012, 05:27

IdeFan wrote:
mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I reckon Webber will go to Ferrari, since they won't give up on him that easily.

But if Red Bull take Raikkonen, it will prove that the YDP has been an expensive waste of time.

Instead, I reckon one of the Toro Rosso drivers - my guess if Vergne - will rise up; if not, they might take a chance on da Costa.

Most of Red Bull's young drivers have been spat out of the sport within a fairly short period of time, so it is questionable whether Red Bull really are getting their money's worth from their young driver program anyway. We have seen Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari thrown out of their teams in quick succession, and a few hints that neither Ricciardo or Vergne are entirely safe either (there have been suggestions that Red Bull might start running da Costa during Friday practise sessions in 2013 in case they drop one of their current Toro Rosso drivers). Furthermore, we know about Red Bull's love of publicity; signing Kimi would give the team an additional publicity boost (it has worked for Lotus this season, although that has been partially overshadowed by Grosjean and his accidents).

Don't forget Klien and Liuzzi (and since you're counting Bourdais; Robert Doornbos). Unless you happen to be Sebastien Vettel, being a Red Bull young driver actually seems to make it more difficult to progress in F1.

To be fair, Red Bull did want to keep Klien in the stable beyond 2006; just not in a F1 seat but in a Indycar drive instead (or it may have been Champcar but I know it was Stateside at any rate)

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 22 Oct 2012, 19:47

Renault reveals (sort of) its engine for 2014:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... f1-engine/

1 CAD image of the engine and 1 photo of the engine on a dyno.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 23 Oct 2012, 11:25

Interesting. So it'll be an overhead airbox as before rather than two small intakes on the sidepods (or a couple of NACA ducts somewhere) and a bare roll bar. And I'll bet it's all in the name of aerodynamics.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Oct 2012, 22:12

dinizintheoven wrote:Interesting. So it'll be an overhead airbox as before rather than two small intakes on the sidepods (or a couple of NACA ducts somewhere) and a bare roll bar. And I'll bet it's all in the name of aerodynamics.

Is it bollocks. Bernie and the FIA were probably bricking at the thought of a potential "backlash" of fans against the conventional shape of an F1 car, just like they were about the sound of the engines, so most likely pussied out and wrote in a rule that mandated roll hoop airboxes, all in the name of "the show".

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 24 Oct 2012, 01:31

My prediction:

Ferrari
1 - Vettel
2 - Massa

RedBull - Renault
3 - Webber
4 - Ricciardo

Mercedes
5 - Hamilton
6 - Rosberg

Lotus - Renault
7 - Raikkonen
8 - Grosjean

Mclaren - Mercedes
9 - Button
10 - Perez

Force India - Mercedes
11 - Di Resta
12 - Bianchi

Sauber - Ferrari
14 - Hulkenberg
15 - Gutierrez

Williams - Renault
16 - Maldonado
17 - Barrichello

Toro Rosso - Ferrari
18 - Vergne
19 - Razia

Caterham - Renault
20 - Kobayashi
21 - Senna

Marussia - Mercedes
22 - Glock
23 - Chilton

HRT - Pure
24 - Delarosa
25 - Ma Qing Hua