2009 Japanese Grand Prix Discussion

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Oct 2009, 06:12

Fiday FP2 is currently on and the weather is pretty bad. 17 minutes left in the session and Algersuari is the only person who has set a time :shock:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 02 Oct 2009, 07:07

Weather reports are suggesting two things: 1) wet qualifying, dry race or 2) dry qualifying, dry race. Both of these are good. A wet qualifying will shake the grid up, and with the minimal running, the teams won't have much data for the race to go by. As for dry qualifying, it's the same deal, but not as dramatic: teams will get feedback for the race, but it won't be perfect.

Bring it on.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 02 Oct 2009, 07:41

I loved how Force India sent an origami boat down the pitlane for amusement during the wettest part of the session

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 02 Oct 2009, 10:29

And we have a F1 debut in the form of Kamui Kobayashi.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 02 Oct 2009, 10:36

Henrique wrote:And we have a F1 debut in the form of Kamui Kobayashi.

Who wasn't too shabby, by the sounds of things, considering he only got 16 laps in the first session, and 7 in the second

Think he outpaced Grrrjjjjnnnn in FP1 as well

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 02 Oct 2009, 12:14

Why are we suddenly spelling Grosjean's name with just syllables?

I mean, I know it's funny and all ... but I'm just wondering how it came about.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 02 Oct 2009, 12:50

Captain Hammer wrote:Why are we suddenly spelling Grosjean's name with just syllables?

I mean, I know it's funny and all ... but I'm just wondering how it came about.

That's how Jamie and Enoch pronounce his name on the podcasts!

Popi_Larrauri · Post by **Popi_Larrauri** » 02 Oct 2009, 13:03

Henrique wrote:And we have a F1 debut in the form of Kamui Kobayashi.

What the hell happened with Timo "I´m such an old gun" Glock? Is this just a one off?

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 02 Oct 2009, 13:37

Popi_Larrauri wrote:What the hell happened with Timo "I´m such an old gun" Glock? Is this just a one off?

He's ill, they plan for him to qualify and race, but if he's worse/not any better, he might sit it out

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 03 Oct 2009, 04:32

Mark Webber has been forced to miss qualifying for the Japanese Grand Prix following a Saturday morning practice crash at the Degner Curves. The subsequent chassis change for the Australian means he will start Sunday's race from the back of the grid at Suzuka.

Having lost out in the championship fight as a result of brake failure in Singapore six days ago, Mark Webber's chances for a decent result in Japan took a large blow in the third and final practice session.

Having gone straight on to collide with the barriers at Degner, Team Principal Christian Horner has explained that chassis damaged will mean Webber remains in the pits for the rest of the day. The Milton Keynes team is currently constructing a new chassis, hoped to be ready by Sunday morning.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/10/03/webber-to-miss-qualifying/ :lol:

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Oct 2009, 05:19

Holy crap, Trulli looks possessed, in the good way.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Oct 2009, 05:55

Two red flags in one session... this is madness. The results out of Q2 are going to be completely abstract, I reckon.

hootie · Post by **hootie** » 03 Oct 2009, 05:59

oh this is interesting

will this mean we can to see kobayashi doing the honours tomorrow?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10025.html

hootie

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:18

What the hell is going on out there?? :shock:

hootie · Post by **hootie** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:27

new drivers + great track == exciting quali

hootie

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:32

LukeB wrote:What the hell is going on out there??

I don't know. This was one interesting qualifying session, that's for sure.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:49

hootie wrote:will this mean we can to see kobayashi doing the honours tomorrow?

No. Like I said in the live chat over at F1 Fanatic, if you do not qualify a car, you cannot race it. Webber is different because it is his car; in the case of Kobayashi, it was Glock qualifying, but Kobayashi cannot drive it.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:52

I missed my alarm, woke up 50 minutes into qualifying and there was still 7 minutes left in Q2. Anyway Sutil was great, and guys are falling over themselves to be ROTR.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 03 Oct 2009, 06:53

Can anyone think of a better third of a track than the stretch from the straight into Spoon through the Casio Triangle?

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 03 Oct 2009, 07:57

There were way too many shunts today. As good a doctor as Gary Hartstein is - I prefer it when he is not needed.

Especially the Toro Rosso rookies looked a bit out of their depth, I'm afraid. Would that have also happened to Bourdais? We may never know but it's at tracks like this where experience counts.

Kovalainen has probably publicly announced that he's a free agent on the transfer market now.

But Glock's shunt? What exactly happened there? In the replays, it was obvious that he turned the steering wheel while accelerating out of the chicane but nothing happened.

Here is hoping that he is OK. In the German language media, it says that he has received "cuts" on his lower left leg and has a pain in the back, which is why they flew him out to hospital for checks.
I hope Glock will be back at the next race.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Oct 2009, 08:21

Toro Rosso's accidents were just rookie mistakes as several people have already said but the aftermath of Buemi's 2nd accident was particually amaturish (according to the BBC commentry he held up Alonso and the BMWs while trying to get back to the pits).

Glock's accident was a strange one. It probably wasn't because of mechanical failure even though the car at first glance didn't look like it was responding properly. As Martin said in order to get grip out of the chicane you need to go wide after the exit and Timo just went too far out wide. Either way let's hope Timo gets back in the car ASAP.

And now onto Kovaleinen... he's probably destroyed any shred of hope of staying at McLaren next year with that incident. He's only been saved by dumb luck because the replays indicated to Martin and Jonathon that he was going to run long tomorrow

Now... onto what will turn out to be the big debate in the leadup to the race... then end of Q2...
The footage is conclusive. Brawn and Sutil took a gamble and in the end it paid off and breaking a rule in the process. It's safe to say that all 3 drivers Didn't lift off at the exit of Spoon Curve when the rules state they should have. All 3 have no excuse to do so because Alosno further up the road lifted when he hit the scene of the debris... expect Brawn, Sutil and Buemi to have the book thrown at them.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 03 Oct 2009, 08:28

I don't remember seeing a qualifying session quite like that before. Amazing how many accidents there were, but I suppose it just goes to show what a challenging track Suzuka is. I am not sure Button did terribly well, but at least he kept it on the road. The fuel weights should make interesting reading - I shall be intrigued to see just how much Sutil has on board.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Oct 2009, 08:49

Paul Hayes wrote: The fuel weights should make interesting reading - I shall be intrigued to see just how much Sutil has on board.

Speaking of fuel weights it'll be very interesting to see how heavy Vettel and Trulli are

Enrique Bernoldi · Post by **Enrique Bernoldi** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:16

Wizzie wrote:
Paul Hayes wrote: The fuel weights should make interesting reading - I shall be intrigued to see just how much Sutil has on board.

Speaking of fuel weights it'll be very interesting to see how heavy Vettel and Trulli are

Jarno looked rather happy with himself when he got out of the car. Given his track record of qualifying well, I wouldn't be suprised if he's a little heavier than Vettel.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:30

Five-place penalties for all the miscreants - Button, Barrichello, Sutil, Alonso and Buemi.

That should spice up the midfield a bit!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:34

Paul Hayes wrote:Five-place penalties for all the miscreants - Button, Barrichello, Sutil, Alonso and Buemi.

That should spice up the midfield a bit!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79191 and the article to go with it

And all of a sudden the race just got a hell of a lot more interesting

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:43

We need mathematicians to work out what the grid is, I'm trying to work it out and I'm confused as hell.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:47

Debaser wrote:We need mathematicians to work out what the grid is, I'm trying to work it out and I'm confused as hell.

The new grid is now in that article Wizzie posted

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:49

Valrys wrote:
Debaser wrote:We need mathematicians to work out what the grid is, I'm trying to work it out and I'm confused as hell.

The new grid is now in that article Wizzie posted

A very f***ed up grid at that

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:50

Car weights - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79192

Edit: @Wizzie, Indeed! Looking forward to the race now

Also, Rosberg starts 6th, with a very heavy fuell load....Podium chance? And Truilli actually slightly lighter than Vettel

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Oct 2009, 10:57

And Kubica in 7th is slightly heavier than Rosberg... This could end up being one of the best races of the decade.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:04

So Brawn, exactly the same as last week, get lucky with Kovalainen's gearbox change and are now back onto the clean side of the grid?

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:04

thehemogoblin wrote:Can anyone think of a better third of a track than the stretch from the straight into Spoon through the Casio Triangle?

Depends on what you're classifying as a third of a track, but I'm thinking the Porsche Curves through to Maison Blanche and down to the Ford chicane at La Sarthe, but that's not a Formula One track - and is unlikely to become one. Personally, I prefer the first third of Suzuka as well, but Suzuka is just a fantastic track in general. It's up there with Spa-Francorchamps as the best tracks of the season.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:20

Debaser wrote:We need mathematicians to work out what the grid is, I'm trying to work it out and I'm confused as hell.

When is a 5-place grid penalty not a 5-place grid penalty? When it's a 4-place grid penalty ...

OK, Webber and Glock change chassis so they start from the pits (effectively 19th and 20th) - understood. Liuzzi with a gearbox change is last of those remaining, so he's 18th - understood.

But can someone please explain to me, given Sutil (4th), Barrichello (5th), Button (7th), Kovalainen (9th), Buemi (10th) and Alonso (12th) all got penalties for one reason or another, why Autosport is reporting Alonso in 17th but the others only drop four places each? Should they not all drop five places, ie Sutil to 9th, Barrichello to 10th, Button to 12th, Kovalainen to 14th and Buemi to 15th, and then everyone else who's legit just fills out the remaining spots? It seems to me that Alguersuari should start 8th, not 10th, and Fisichella should start 11th, not 12th.

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:31

Grid according to autosport:
1. Vettel
2. Trulli
3. Hamilton
4. Heidfeld
5. Raikkonen
6. Rosberg
7. Kubica
8. Sutil
9. Barrichello
10. Alguersuari
11. Button
12. Fisichella
13. Kovalainen
14. Buemi
15. Nakajima
16. Grosjean
17. Alonso
18. Liuzzi
19. Glock
20. Webber

Grid according to Warren Hughes:
1. Vettel
2. Trulli
3. Hamilton
4. Heidfeld
5. Raikkonen
6. Rosberg
7. Kubica
8. Alguersuari
9. Sutil
10. Barrichello
11. Fisichella
12. Button
13. Nakajima
14. Kovalainen
15. Buemi
16. Grosjean
17. Alonso
18. Liuzzi
19. GLock
20. Webber

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:46

Sorry mate, but the Autosport one is right. F1 Fanatic, GP Update and Wikipedia are all showing the same grid as published by Autosport.

Archie2K · Post by **Archie2K** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:50

eytl wrote:When is a 5-place grid penalty not a 5-place grid penalty? When it's a 4-place grid penalty ...

But can someone please explain to me, given Sutil (4th), Barrichello (5th), Button (7th), Kovalainen (9th), Buemi (10th) and Alonso (12th) all got penalties for one reason or another, why Autosport is reporting Alonso in 7th but the others only drop four places each? Should they not all drop five places, ie Sutil to 9th, Barrichello to 10th, Button to 12th, Kovalainen to 14th and Buemi to 15th, and then everyone else who's legit just fills out the remaining spots? It seems to me that Alguersuari should start 8th, not 10th, and Fisichella should start 11th, not 12th.

What happens when the driver 1st gets a 10 place drop and the driver 6th gets a five place drop. Who starts from 11th?

Incidentally, Alguesuari throws his car into the wall in Q2 and fails to set a time, and winds up 10th. The best strategy was to sit in the pits through Q2 and save your tyres it seems.

Eight teams into Q3. Is that a record?

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 03 Oct 2009, 11:58

Archie2K wrote:What happens when the driver 1st gets a 10 place drop and the driver 6th gets a five place drop. Who starts from 11th?

That's a good question. I'm not sure, although I'm guessing the driver who was 1st would then start 10th and the driver who was 6th starts 11th. The rationale would probably be, apply the penalty to the person who was 1st, then apply it to the person who was 6th.

That would explain how a driver who gets an n-place grid penalty ends up with, effectively, an (n-1)-place grid penalty. Or like in Singapore where Barrichello was 5th, then changed gearboxes and should be 10th. But then Heidfeld changed gearbox and engine, so Barrichello moved up one again to 9th. I can understand that.

Here, I can't immediately see any reason why Sutil, Barrichello, Button, Kovalainen and Buemi all effectively got four-place penalties, but Alonso gets 5.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 03 Oct 2009, 12:02

eytl wrote:
Archie2K wrote:What happens when the driver 1st gets a 10 place drop and the driver 6th gets a five place drop. Who starts from 11th?

That's a good question. I'm not sure, although I'm guessing the driver who was 1st would then start 10th and the driver who was 6th starts 11th. The rationale would probably be, apply the penalty to the person who was 1st, then apply it to the person who was 6th.

That would explain how a driver who gets an n-place grid penalty ends up with, effectively, an (n-1)-place grid penalty. Or like in Singapore where Barrichello was 5th, then changed gearboxes and should be 10th. But then Heidfeld changed gearbox and engine, so Barrichello moved up one again to 9th. I can understand that.

Here, I can't immediately see any reason why Sutil, Barrichello, Button, Kovalainen and Buemi all effectively got four-place penalties, but Alonso gets 5.

Kovalainen's gearbox penalty was applied after the yellow flag penalties.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 03 Oct 2009, 12:30

Captain Hammer wrote:Kovalainen's gearbox penalty was applied after the yellow flag penalties.

That doesn't provide a full answer. It's the only explanation for Sutil, Barrichello and Button, but what about Buemi? If Buemi went from 10th to 15th, applying Kovalainen's penalty later would not have helped him go up to 14th.

Unless what the stewards have said is that Glock's penalty is also applied later, which is what moves Buemi up to 14th. In which case why does Alonso not get moved up to 16th?

Plus, if Kovalainen's penalty is applied after the yellow flag penalties, then after the yellow flag penalties to Sutil, Barrichello and Button, shouldn't Kovalainen have gone up from 9th to 6th? Then applying a five-place penalty should put him 11th, not 13th.

No explanation is proving to be entirely satisfactory to me.