TOTB (ten of the best)

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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Ataxia wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Since it's nearly the end of the year, it's another one of these...

Ataxia's Top 10 Albums of 2014
...

No mention of AM? At all? Ataxy, I am very disappoint son. :P


...because AM was released in 2013, maybe? :P

That's no excuse, it should still feature on that list. :P

Yep, I feel like a twonk. Again. :P
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tommykl »

Top ten Weezer albums
1. Blue album (1994)
Ten songs, all of which are thouroughly enjoyable, brilliant guitar work, fun yet occasionally dark lyrics and brilliant band chemistry. Not a single bad song on this album, and most of them are really damn good. "Only In Dreams" is their most epic song, in my opinion.

2. Pinkerton (1996)
Harder to get than the Blue album due to its more abrasive and raw sound, but extremely heartfelt songs and lyrics. Again, great chemistry within the band. Matt Sharp's last album with Weezer. Also, "El Scorcho" kicks arse.

3. Maladroit (2002)
The second album after a long hiatus and first with Scott Shriner on bass, it's by far their most experimental. On the one hand, a couple of songs are borderline metal, while "Burndt Jamb" is just straight-up funk. "Dope Nose" and "Keep Fishin'" were the only two singles, and both are awesome songs, though not quite as good as their best.

4. Everything Will Be Alright In The End (2014)
After a four year wait, EWBAITE was a welcome return to form, with "Back To The Shack" promising a return to 1994 Weezer...while sounding like 2001 Weezer :P
"The British Are Coming" and "Da Vinci" are two of the best songs on the album, which has tracks which wouldn't be out of place on Pinkerton. Certainly their best in quite some time.

5. Green album (2001)
When Pinkerton was panned by critics and became a commercial failure, Weezer went on hiatus and Matt Sharp left the band. After long periods of doubt, the band finally reformed in 2001 with Mikey Welsh on bass and released another self-titled album, full of solid, if unimpressive, tracks. "Hash Pipe" is incredibly intense, while radio staple "Island In The Sun" is very relaxing, if a bit boring. Outside of the singles, "Don't Let Go" and "Knockdown Dragout" are also pretty good songs.

6. Hurley (2010)
Yes, it's named after a character from Lost. It came out just one year after their worst album and sounded really unfinished in places, but that didn't stop it from featuring some good tracks, like "Trainwrecks". "Memories" is a decent song with a catchy chorus, but lyrics are fairly tame throughout. It was their least commercially successful album, not by merit, but by reputation, and is probably their least memorable.

7. Red album (2008)
The first Weezer album to feature songs without Rivers Cuomo as lead singer, it's their most experimental since Maladroit, and features some really good songs, such as "The Angel and the One". Singles "Pork And Beans" and "Troublemaker" are also fairly solid, but lyrical inconsistencies are a major problem, most notably on "The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On a Shaker Hymn)", supposed to be their version of "Bohemian Rhapsody".

8. Death To False Metal (2010)
A compilation of unreleased material, it...okay, I've never actually listened to it, but it's not last simply by virtue of it not possibly being worse than these last two.

9. Make Believe (2005)
Yes, it's their most commercially successful. No, I'm not being a hipster. Yes, I covered "Beverly Hills". That was just because it's extremely easy to play. Every song on the album has at least one problem, whether it's repetitiveness ("This Is Such A Pity"), not carrying enough momentum ("We Are All On Drugs") or just plain stupid lyrics ("Perfect Situation"). There are high moments, but they never last a whole song.

10. Raditude (2009)
After lyrics were named as the biggest problem of 2008's Red album, Rivers Cuomo resorted to hiring professional songwriters to help him. This did not work out as planned. "(If You're Wondering If I Want You To) I Want You To" is an okay song, if a bit repetitive, but the rest is lacking in all areas. Most songwriters who contributed are known for writing for the likes of Ke-dollar sign-ha or Miley Cyrus or "cash-money-hoes" rappers, which resulted in songs with uninspiring, inane and sometimes offensive lyrics. Especially in the song "Can't Stop Partying", which talks about Rivers enjoying an alcohol addiction, something he'd spoken out against in the Blue album's "Say It Ain't So". Also, it featured Lil Wayne. A couple of songs were okay, but sounded like they were by another artist, taking away from their quality. One song was written by drummer Patrick Wilson, who had cowritten a few other good songs beforehand. Sadly, "In The Mall" has the same problems, showing that Wilson shouldn't be left alone with pen and paper.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Captain Hammer »

With the new James Bond film being announced this week, here's my top ten Bond films:

10 - Live And Let Die
9 - Dr. No
8 - GoldenEye
7 - Thunderball
6 - The World Is Not Enough
5 - Casino Royale
4 - The Living Daylights
3 - For Your Eyes Only
2 - Skyfall
1- From Russia With Love
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dr-baker »

Top Ten F1 Teams of 2015 (I.e. in order of favouritism)

1. Williams
2. McLaren
3. Mercedes
4. Sauber
5. Force India
6. Lotus
7. Ferrari
8. Toro Rosso
9. Red Bull
10... Erm?
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by shinji »

Now that it has in all likelihood come to a sad end, can we come up with our ten best moments of the F1 Rejects podcast?

My two favourites that come to mind are the funeral for Formula Elaborate Bluff, from probably the 2009 British GP Edition, and the Super Aguri tribute ('Only the Good Die Young'), in what was probably the 2008 Spankish GP Editon.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dr-baker »

shinji wrote:Now that it has in all likelihood come to a sad end, can we come up with our ten best moments of the F1 Rejects podcast?

My two favourites that come to mind are the funeral for Formula Elaborate Bluff, from probably the 2009 British GP Edition, and the Super Aguri tribute ('Only the Good Die Young'), in what was probably the 2008 Spankish GP Editon.

GMIF1Ps were always a highlight as an ongoing feature. And my favourite one-off feature were the debates that featured in the 11.12.27/2011 Season Review Podcast. Especially the Maria de Villota v. Milka Duno debate.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by good_Ralf »

Captain Hammer wrote:With the new James Bond film being announced this week, here's my top ten Bond films:

10 - Live And Let Die
9 - Dr. No
8 - GoldenEye
7 - Thunderball
6 - The World Is Not Enough
5 - Casino Royale
4 - The Living Daylights
3 - For Your Eyes Only
2 - Skyfall
1- From Russia With Love


No love for Goldfinger, Captain? :( :P
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Captain Hammer »

good_Ralf wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:No love for Goldfinger, Captain? :( :P

None whatsoever. It's probably the most over-rated film in the series. Bond is an absolute moron throughout, making stupid mistakes that get him captured and relying entirely on luck and other people to escape. Goldfinger is equally dim-witted, given that he builds his prison cells directly underneath the room where he explains his plan. And then there is the completely pointless Tilly Masterson sub-plot, which comes out of left-field and then goes nowhere because she is killed off before anything can happen.

The only good thing about it is Honor Blackman.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tommykl »

Top 10 best Formula One drivers without a podium finish (per decade)
The fifties
10. Johnny Claes (BEL) - 1950-53, 1955
Forum favourite. Only on this list for the lel, really.

9. Consalvo Sanesi (ITA) - 1950-51
Alfa Romeo tester and awesome sportscar driver, he only got half a season in Formula One. Often let down by his car, he managed a sole fourth place in Switzerland 1951.

8. Carroll Shelby (USA) - 1958-59
Best known as an engineer, Shelby drove on-and-off in the late-50s. Often driving uncompetitive machinery for Scuderia Centro Sud and Aston Martin, he managed a shared fourth place in Italy 1958 with Maurice Trintignant, which didn't count for points anymore.

7. Yves Giraud-Cabantous (FRA) - 1950-53
After finishing fourth in the inaugural championship race, he competed as works Talbot driver, then in his own private Talbot, scoring a further fifth at Spa in 1951. He finished his career with some uninspired outings for HWM.

6. Ken Wharton (GBR) - 1952-55
One of the best sportscar drivers of his day, Wharton only managed a single fourth place finish on début in Switzerland. He spent the next four years as a driver-for-hire in uncompetitive British outfits, proving reliable and consistent.

5. B. Bira (THA) - 1950-55
One of the best privateer pre-War drivers out there, the Siamese prince kept his form after WWII, although he never quite managed to get top-drawer machinery. He was at his best driving Maseratis, whether for Platé (five points in 1950) or for himself (three points in 1954). Between those two, however, he failed to make an impression for Gordini, Connaught, Milano or even the Maserati works team. He did, however, score regular podiums in non-championship races against weaker opposition.

4. Jack Fairman (GBR) - 1953, 1955-61
Another highly competitive driver-for-hire, Fairman is best known for developing the Connaughts and scoring five points with them in 1956. His F1 appearances were sporadic due to sportscar commitments, but when he did finish races, he was usually towards the front.

3. Paco Godia (ESP) - 1951, 1954, 1956-58
After an anonymous début at his home race in 1951, Godia returned a few years later for the work Maserati team, driving for most of 1956. At the end of the season, he scored two impressive consecutive fourth places. After two further seasons of mediocrity in his own machinery, he retreated to his playground of sportscars, but his form in 1956 showed his raw talent behind the wheel.

2. Toulo de Graffenried (SUI) - 1950-54, 1956
One of the best privateers of the early 1950s, de Graffenried could always be relied on for impressive results. Sadly, they never came in the world championship. A Grand Prix winner in 1949, he enjoyed some good performances in the next few years with Enrico Platé, the works Alfa Romeo team and his own private entries, scoring a total of nine championship points, including fourth place at Spa in 1953.

1. Roberto Mieres (ARG) - 1953-55
Talented at many things, Mieres is best known for his Grand Prix racing career. After very impressive results in Argentina, his success translated to drives in Europe, first with Gordini, then for himself and finally for Maserati. There, he scored five points finishes, including three fourth places and a fastest lap at Zandvoort in 1955, ending up the top Maserati driver that season. After scoring a total of 13 career points, he suddenly ended his F1 career and turned to other hobbies such as sailing, competing in the 1960 Olympic Games.

Other decades to come soon.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

TOP TEN BOND THEMES

10. You Know My Name (from Casino Royale) - Chris Cornell
9. You Only Live Twice - Nancy Sinatra
8. The World Is Not Enough - Garbage
7. A View to a Kill - Duran Duran
6. Thunderball - Tom Jones
5. Diamonds Are Forever - Shirley Bassey
4. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
3. Nobody Does It Better (from The Spy Who Loved Me) - Carly Simon
2. The Living Daylights - a-ha
1. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney & Wings
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Ataxia »

Simtek wrote:3. Nobody Does It Better (from The Spy Who Loved Me) - Carly Simon


Glang...glang-a-lang-a-lang-a-lang!
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

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Top 10 Bad Names I Just Made Up for Sebastian Vettel's Pole Lap at the 2011 Japanese Grand Prix
10. Moving the Inevitable Forward
9. McLaren Almost Win Twice, But Still Don't
8. [Sebastian Vettel] 2011 Japan Pole (Formula One)
7. VETTELPOLESLOL Part XII
6. Red Bull: Theoretically Stoppable
5. It's Okay, He Doesn't Win the Race
4. A Red Bull Enters Qualifying At Suzuka. What Happens Next Will Amaze You.
3. It Was Fair
2. A Man, A Plan, Japan
1. Seb vs. Web 51
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by CoopsII »

Top Ten Royksopp songs

1 - Do It Again
2 - So Easy
3 - I Wanna Know
4 - The Girl And The Robot
5 - Only This Moment
6 - Eple
7 - I Had This Thing
8 - This Must Be It
9 - Ice Machine (Depeche Mode cover)
10 - You Don't Have A Clue
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Klon »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:10 of the best circuits which look and feel like tilkedromes even if he had nothing to do with them

bullshite list

i.e., top 10 circuits you don't like because sharp corners are inherently bad


Not to mention no list of "Tilkedromes that aren't done by Tilke" is complete without post-1991 Silverstone.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by watka »

CoopsII wrote:Top Ten Royksopp songs

1 - Do It Again
2 - So Easy
3 - I Wanna Know
4 - The Girl And The Robot
5 - Only This Moment
6 - Eple
7 - I Had This Thing
8 - This Must Be It
9 - Ice Machine (Depeche Mode cover)
10 - You Don't Have A Clue


Big Royksopp fan myself and can't argue with any of this.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by CoopsII »

watka wrote:Big Royksopp fan myself and can't argue with any of this.

Looking at my Top Ten I want to change it already, I should've included Go With The Flow from Night Out but never mind. I'm curious to see what they do next as they've billed The Inevitable End as their last album, I presume single track downloads?
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Rob Dylan »

I'll put my own Top 10 Bond Films up:

10. Skyfall - while it was overrated due to simply being better than Quantum, it is definitely a good one, ridiculous plot points aside. We'll see if it stands up over time.
9. A View To A Kill - I always hated the Moore era of awful Bond films, but this one is the only one that properly blends the silliness of that era with an interesting plot. The cast is really good (even the terrible actress for the Bond girl is at least funny :D) and it just feels great as Moore's send-off after all of it. Also he's 57 in it. That alone is hilarious.
8. Dr. No - the first one, and definitely one of the best. It's very down-to-earth, and Connery fits into the role immediately. Parts can be a little dated (editing for example), but the plot and structure is excellent.
7. On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Underrated in my eyes. Gets a lot of hate because of Lazenby, and I can understand a lot of it. But the film itself is damn decent, and in my opinion it has the best music of any Bond film. And Bond fans will know that is no lean feat.
6. Casino Royale - a film I initially hated when it came out, but over time I and a lot of people have come to appreciate it for what it is, and it is a very complex interwoven film, with some seriously good moments and payoff. The potential that the end of this film brought was tragically ruined by Quantum, and that's a big shame.
5. Goldeneye - Nostalgic choice for me seeing as I grew up on this film and the excellent N64 game, meaning that I know every line from every scene. The film has a great cast (Boris :D), good pacing, a really interesting storyline and it holds up well today.
4. You Only Live Twice - maybe I'm overrating this one as well but it's a personal favourite as being just an excellently-enjoyable Bond flick, with so much payoff in the last half-hour. The problems many old Bond films suffer from are dated effects, very poor pacing or heavy pandering to audiences of the time. I don't think this one has those problems to the same extent, and is definitely one of the classics.
3. The Living Daylights - the most underrated of the Bond films, simply because it came after Moore and the 80s crowd weren't ready for the gritty side of James Bond again. This film is brilliant from start to finish: there's double-agents, multiple interwoven plots going on at once, a hell of a lot of suspense, some absolutely fantastic sequences, especially in the plane at the end. How this film misses the praise is in my opinion mostly down to the time of release. If an updated version of that was released at the Casino Royale period, people would be proclaiming it as much as that. Rant over
2. Goldfinger - while Captain Hammer has some good points, Goldfinger is very much a classic in my eyes. It has just about everything that people associate with Bond, it's exciting to watch, and and the plot is actually surprisingly deceptive. And having read the book (which is amazing, read it), it's quite close to that as well. On the subject of the silly mistakes argument, I like how in Connery's Bond he wasn't an invincible superhero, and did make major mistakes. It's a vulnerability lacking from many later Bond films.
1. From Russia With Love - the best and most realistic Bond film. The plot is complex, well thought-out and enjoyable. Throughout there is little to no suspension of disbelief, and there is a hell of a lot of suspense throughout. It doesn't feel dated, but at the same time has that awesome Cold-War vibe about it that just makes it a classic of the 60s spy film genre.

And honourable mentions go to:
Moonraker and Die Another Day - I get some perverse pleasure from watching these films, because they are pretty awful. They're hilarious, don't get me wrong, and the reason why I'm mentioning them is because the good Bond films have to compare their qualities to what made these films awful, and thankfully many of the mistakes these films made were improved upon in later years. But they are worth a watch, and are great for movie nights :D
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Takagi's Top 10 Tracks of 2014

10. - Aloe Blacc - The Man Unbelievably catchy, with the voice of a total god.
9. - Alex Clare - War Rages On In my mind, a better song than "Too Close", the track that has defined his career this far. Going by YouTube views, I'd say I'm very much in the minority. :P
8. - George Ezra - Budapest As far as breakthrough tracks go, this is one of the better ones. Fantastic voice and dead catchy.
7. - Sander van Doorn & Firebeatz - Guitar Track It couldn't be a Takagi music list without EDM. :P Drops harder than Greece's economy, and the fact I'm a massive Firebeatz fanboy helps no end.
6. - Foo Fighters - Something From Nothing I'm no Foo Fighters fan, but I recognise quality when I hear it. I heard this. I recognised the quality. :P
5. - Dimitri Vangelis, Wyman and Steve Angello - Payback One of the real summer tunes, it signalled Angello's return to form following the end of the Swedish House Mafia. If this was given a set of generic lyrics, a lá Reload, it would've been a huge mainstream hit.
4. - Paolo Nutini - Iron Sky As you'd expect from Nutini, a completely beautiful track. His soaring vocals fit the theme of the song beautifully, and bonus points were added for the inclusion of a Charlie Chaplin sample. One of the few 6 minutes + long tracks I can listen to and not get bored of.
3. - StadiumX feat. Taylr Renee - Howl at the Moon The standout track from Tomorrowland, this is the song that really got me back into EDM. Lyrics are fairly generic, but the bass and riff are second to none. Given some of the cack that was chatting in the summer, it's a travesty this song didn't get wider recognition.
2. - Childish Gambino - Crawl In the space of 12 months, Gambino has gone from being a total nobody to having godlike status among rap fans. Crawl isn't one of his more recognisable tracks, given that I don't think they got round to releasing it despite giving it masses of airtime, but it was the best rap track of 2014 by far.
1. - Mark Knight - Return of Wolfy Despite having a huge back catalogue of generic, drab EDM/deep house mixes, Mark Knight still occasionally releases tunes that hit all the right spots. This one very much achieved that, thanks to it's simple combination of a few piano chords and lyrics shamelessly nicked from Chicane - Saltwater. Either way, this has become one of my very favourite tracks of all time, and has my unconditional love. :P

Yep, I had no idea what I was talking about for all of that. :P
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by CoopsII »

Top Ten Songs On My Ipod.

1 Keane - Silenced By The Night
2 New Order - Turn
3 Ben Folds - From Above
4 Royksopp - Do It Again
5 Manic Street Preachers - Some Kind Of Nothingness
6 Saint Etienne - DJ
7 Morrissey - Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself?
8 The Mission - Aint No Prayer In The Bible Can Save Me Now
9 Ash - True Love 1980
10 Kraftwerk - Aerodynamik
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Barbazza »

I mightily approve of No.6. One of the best tracks from one of the best albums of the last few years (which hardly anyone bought, sadly)
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by watka »

Barbazza wrote:I mightily approve of No.6. One of the best tracks from one of the best albums of the last few years (which hardly anyone bought, sadly)


Words and Music was superb!
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Rob Dylan »

Now that "Monuments to an Elegy" has been out a few weeks I'll do a Top 10 Smashing Pumpkins albums , a.k.a. the ten Smashing Pumpkins albums (I'm including Pisces Iscariot in here) in order of quality:

10. Zeitgeist
9. Machina/The Machines Of God
8. Machina II/The Friends & Enemies Of Modern Music
7. Oceania
6. Adore
5. Monuments To An Elegy
4. Pisces Iscariot
3. Siamese Dream
2. Gish
1. Mellon Collie & The Infinite Sadness
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Londoner »

I've left it long enough, now it's time for:

East Londoner's Top Ten Albums of 2014

10. Embrace - Embrace
9. Maxïmo Park - Too Much Information
8. Paolo Nutini - Caustic Love
7. Honeyblood - Honeyblood
6. Manic Street Preachers - Futurology
5. The Family Rain - Under The Volcano
4. The Courteeners - Concrete Love
3. Royal Blood - Royal Blood
2. Paloma Faith - A Perfect Contradiction (yes, you read that correctly. :D )
1. Kasabian - 48:13

As for best EP of the year, there were a few good contenders, such as...you know what, forget that, clearly the best one released this year is Wolf Alice - Creature Songs EP. I am pretty much the resident Wolf Alice fanboy on this forum now, so it's to be expected. But still, check it out, it's a corker of an EP. Their album, when it arrives next year, will probably be my top album of 2015. Now there's a bold prediction.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Nessafox »

Top 10 Modern Punkrock albums

10 Blink 182 - Take Off Your Pants and Jacket
A step too poppy for many people and many would argue that there are better poppunk albums, but i guess it's a matter of taste.
9 Dropkick Murphys - Sing Loud , Sing Proud
The ultimate party punk album.
8 The Offspring - Americana
A personal favourite, because it's the album that got me into modern punkrock in the first place. I played this to death when i was on a holiday in spain, so for me this is the ultimate driving album.
7 Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First
They done a lot of great albums and all of them are interchangeable. But in my opinion, this was their peak album.
6 Mad Caddies - Duck And Cover
Without doubt the best ska-punk album to be ever made.
5 Lagwagon - Hang
Only released this october and already my favourite Lagwagon album. Though almost all their albums would earn a place in a top 10. This is just the most underrated band in the world.
4 Descendents - Everything Sucks
They only made one album in the nineties, but it sums up nineties punkrock perfectly. First band to succesfully merge poppunk with hardcore punk back in the eighties.
3 No Use For A Name - Leche Con carne
Skatepunk at its finest. Nineties at its finest. RIP Tony.
2 Rise Against - Revolutions Per Minute
I discovered this band as a support for a Mad Caddies concert in my city back in 2003, just when this one came out. Never before and after have i been blown away that much. This is one of the best albums ever made in any genre. Sadly, you knew this album was so good that they were never going to be able to make another one like this, and it hurts my eyes to see what mediocre band they have become today.
1 Compilation album - Short Music For Short People
Because bathplug you, that's why! A compilation with 101 songs that last only 30 seconds, including almost all influential bands in the genre. A statement if there ever was one, and also a good history lesson for the genre. The ultimate ADHD-album, for sure :D
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

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This wrote:Top 10 Modern Punkrock albums

10 Blink 182 - Take Off Your Pants and Jacket
A step too poppy for many people and many would argue that there are better poppunk albums, but i guess it's a matter of taste.

You know what else is a matter of taste? ALL MUSIC.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

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Top Ten Star Trek Movies

1 - First Contact
2 - The Wrath Of Khan
3 - The Voyage Home
4 - The Undiscovered Country
5 - The Search For Spock
6 - Insurrection
7 - Generations
8 - The 2009 JJ Abrams Lens-flare-fest.
9 - Nemesis
10 - The Motion Picture

Sorry Final Frontier fans, but no apologies to Into Darkness fans. He got away with delivering shiny fluff for the first movie but not in the second one, what a waste of Benedict Cumberbatch. And as for the big reveal he's actually Khan, well, that was only a big reveal if you were four years old. Also, that bit where Spock and Kirk are in Peter Wellers office is the crappest thing ever. Peter Weller is supposedly this big important admiral but on his desk he's got this row of shitty Airfix models of star-ships. What a carry on...
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Nessafox »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:You know what else is a matter of taste? ALL MUSIC.

Why was that comment necessairy?
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

This wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:You know what else is a matter of taste? ALL MUSIC.

Why was that comment necessairy?

It wasn't. It was just a particularly rude way to point out an obvious statement.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tBone »

Ten of the best (or actually worst) road car rejects

Since we all like rejects, I decided to take it to the road! These are the MasterCard Lolas, Fortis and HRTs with a license plate.

10. Suzuki X-90
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Suzuki decided to mix the worst of two worlds and created a poor-handling, impractical SUV convertible that looked neither bold nor sporty.

9. Yugo GV
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It was cheap to buy and even cheaper in quality. Probably the Andrea Moda of road cars.

8. General Motors EV1
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This electric car was too far ahead of its time. GM bought all these back and demolished most of them.

7. Saab 9-2X
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The best example of Saab's decline at General Motors. Having been such a distinctive brand, a rebadged Subaru was wrong in every way.

6. Edsel
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Possibly the biggest flop in automotive history. Bad marketing and curious styling meant the Edsel brand wasn't the success Ford had hoped it would be.

5. CityRover
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Desperate attempt to save MG Rover. This rebadged Tata lacked quality, was too expensive and didn't handle good enough to European standards. It meant the end of the British automobile industry.

4. DMC DeLorean
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This thing looked awesome. Unfortunately, that was the only thing about it that wasn't terrible. Also, the shady story about John DeLorean would make a good movie script...

3. Brilliance BS6
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Chinese attempt to be successful in Europe. Disastrous crash test didn't help at all.

2. Fiat Multipla
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Brilliant concept and I love the fact that you could get a refrigerator instead of the middle front seat! A shame they made it just a little too ugly </understatement> for the common man. I still smile every time I see one, though :)

1. Ford Pinto
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It caught fire when hit from behind, due to some quite poor design packaging. Disastrous for Ford's image in the 1970s.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dinizintheoven »

...and of all the nasty heaps of communist junk you could have picked for #9 and compare to Andrea Moda, you went for the least worst! The Yugo/Zastava 45/55/65/Tempo/Koral (marque and model vary depending on location and year) was a mere Minardi in the halls of rejectful road cars and continually came top of the "cheap car" rankings in 1980s car magazine reviews (as did its Fiat 128-based big brother), so much that it was even occasionally included in further reviews against mainstream Western competition, as well as alongside the new arrivals (at the time) from South Korea. You want an Andrea Moda for the road? I'll give you an Andrea Moda. Presenting the ZAZ Tavria, a car of such monumental awfulness that it was to the captive audience of the Soviet Union what all those hideous commie-wagons were to us in the West. The beleagured Soviet people had many dubious choices from Lada, Moskvich and Izh (Volgas and above being reserved for the party officials, not for the mere plebs) or maybe even - gasp! - a foreign manufacturer like Skoda, but all laughed in unison at the hapless owner of any of ZAZ's badly-thrown-together piles of automotive misery.

The Tavria's predecessor, the 1966 Zaporozhets, was just as horrible compared with its competition and was still being built as late as 1994, but escapes my nomination. Yes, it would have been outclassed even in 1966, and Soviet motorists who had a Lada or a Moskvich roundly mocked Zaporozhets owners. It was a smaller and much worse built alternative to those Ladas and Moskviches - but the captive market was exactly that for most of the car's production run. The Tavria, on the other hand, was launched in 1987 and was a smaller and much worse built alternative to some of the other boxy 1980s designs from the Eastern Bloc - the 1984 Lada Samara, for instance, which was hardly a bastion of aesthetic design, performance or reliability that the big cheeses in Turin or Wolfsburg would be having nightmares about. But also in 1987 came the first real clue the Eastern manufacturers were starting to get it right - the Skoda Favorit in 1987 wasn't completely horrible, and neither was the 1988 Yugo Sana (a.k.a. the Zastava Florida when it was at home). The Tavria, though, has its fate sealed as Western competition started to trickle into the former Soviet countries five years into its production run in 1992, a problem the Zaporozhets only had for three years and that was long, long after it should have been put out to pasture. The Tavria kept on production until, would you believe it, 2011, when it would have been steamrollered even by the fledgling car industries in China and India. And as if the ex-Soviets being given a wake-up call as to how far their cars were behind the West, why then was there this hare-brained idea circa 1994 to import the Tavria into the West wearing a Lada badge? Even selling it for under five grand would have been considered a rip-off when the cheap and nasty competition from, for instance, Malaysia would have crushed it like a gnat under the wheels of a Euclid earth mover.

The runner-up prize for Marxist carbuncles on the face of motoring - the Mastercard Lola of the people's highway - goes to the Dacia 500 Lastun - tiny, ugly and horrifically badly built, intended as a second car in a country where the regime openly disapproved of the people owning even one car, let alone two. Its lack of size wasn't a problem per se - after all, a family of four in Poland who'd bought a Polski-Fiat 126p would find a way to get everyone in the car with all their luggage on the roof, but their car was ultimately the product of a Fiat empire which had already ironed out the main problems (or, at least, as many can be ironed out of a 1970s Fiat) and was still much the same car that had been on sale in decadent, capitalist Italy. The Lastun... wasn't, it was an in-house design that was the product of people who had no idea what they were doing. And so those Romanians who only had access to a Lastun would have envious dreams about the Poles in their 126p and hope that one day, they might be able to make that step up the automotive ladder. And to them, a Yugo of any description would be such obscene luxury that Ceaucescu would have had them thrown in a dank oubliette for 30 years even for the thought crossing their minds.

If you want a modern answer to these hateful machines, you need not look quite so far east - not to China, nor the old Soviet countries. What about... France? The horrid little hairdryers on wheels made by Aixam will do 45 mph flat out and are classified by UK law as glorified quadbikes. Sure, we had our own range of law-loophole-exploiting plastic horrors that were the three-wheelers made by Reliant and Bond, the butt of many a joke, but nobody with a full driving licence ever considered them as a serious proposition (unless they'd had severe concussion and shouldn't be driving anyway). The Aixam microcars are viewed much the same way, even though the odd one does keep turning up on our roads and nobody really knows why. In their native land, though, it seems they still are seen as a serious choice as a small car, probably for those with memories of the dreaded voiture sans permit, a "car" (in the loosest sense of the term" that could be driven (until the law was revoked in 1988) by those without a driving licence, such as a 14-year-old who'd never had a driving lesson in their life, or someone who'd been banned from driving for, say, alcohol offences.

You'll notice I've deliberately left out any references (so far) to what would be the Life of the public highway. Such a car would have to combine all these lack-of-qualities into one horrific package of... horrificness. First of all, it must be a three-wheeler with the engine over the front wheel, like a Reliant, so it has the handling ability of a five-year-old child ice skating for the first time. Furthermore, it must be small enough to have room for two people and no luggage (a condition of the French VSP). Then it has to be built in a communist country by captives of a gulag, to "liberal" tolerances that even the most avid reader of the Socialist Worker would find acceptable. The engine should be pathetically small and precambrian in its technology - but still four-stroke, as a two-stroke engine would be simpler and more powerful for the same capacity; make sure it throws out as much oily smoke as possible so the people around it think it's a two-stroke, though. And, above all, keep this horrid machine in production way, way after its sell-by date - a date which has already passed 30 years ago even when the first one rolls off the production line. Think it couldn't be done? I've got a petrol generator at home - an 80cc four-stroke engine, rather than the ubiquitous 50cc two-stroke - and all I'd have to do is ship it to Cuba and have it shoved in the front not-quite-luggage bay of a Thundersley Invacar. How hard can it be?

Maybe I'll try it, paint it red (with some emulsion from Wilkinson's), see if I can sell one to Ernesto Vita, and convince him to enter it into the World Touring Car Championship.
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"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

...and after all this no mention of one of East Germany's greatest cultural icons. The Trabi! Contrary to popular belief this picture is not taken from the EastCar series.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dinizintheoven »

I take it all back.

I didn't forget the Trabant; for all its many faults, and that it stayed in production 25 years too long, had I been given a choice of only communist cars to drive for the rest of my life, I'd have picked the Trabi ahead of both the Zaporozhets and the Lastun (as well as the equally minuscule Lada Oka). And it's not as if Western manufacturers didn't experiment with smoky two-stroke engines; just ask Saab about their first attempt at a car.

However, I have a new winner for the Life of the public roads. For all I knew about Aixam and their angry hairdryers, I was only recently introduced to the wider category of voiture sans permit by James May in one of his recent programmes on People's Cars of the world. When looking at French VSPs he drove a KV-1 and very nearly soiled himself with fear at how difficult it was to make it go and stop, never mind how there was this complete lack of instruments or recognisable build quality. Well, since that last post I have discovered exactly why the KV-1 is such a terrifying drive.

A review of the 2009 Concours d' LeMons and its "show cars" gives us a look underneath the KV-1 at its drive train. No, your eyes do not deceive you. Even the worst of the worst piles of hateful communist junk with smoky two-stroke engines, six-volt electrics, suspension from a 19th century covered wagon and the loosest interpretation of synchromesh on the gearbox (if it had it at all) still had a proper driveshaft and differential to drive the rear wheels. The KV-1 - and I can barely bring myself to believe this was ever allowed on the roads in France of all places that should have known better - drove its rear wheels via two grindstones directly rotating against the rear tyres. And remember - these were driven by people who couldn't drive, at all, or who had been convicted of drunk driving, or who had otherwise had their licence revoked.

If that isn't as rejectful to the public highways as a W12 engine with half the power of the rest of the field housed in a year-old chassis that had been condemned in a crash test and nicknamed an "interesting flowerpot", then I don't know what is. The KV-1 rightly deserved its "worst car in show" award, and if there was a "worst car ever to show up at LeMons" then I doubt it could ever be beaten.
Last edited by dinizintheoven on 06 Jan 2015, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dr-baker »

dinizintheoven wrote:
You'll notice I've deliberately left out any references (so far) to what would be the Life of the public highway. Such a car would have to combine all these lack-of-qualities into one horrific package of... horrificness. First of all, it must be a three-wheeler with the engine over the front wheel, like a Reliant, so it has the handling ability of a five-year-old child ice skating for the first time. Furthermore, it must be small enough to have room for two people and no luggage (a condition of the French VSP). Then it has to be built in a communist country by captives of a gulag, to "liberal" tolerances that even the most avid reader of the Socialist Worker would find acceptable. The engine should be pathetically small and precambrian in its technology - but still four-stroke, as a two-stroke engine would be simpler and more powerful for the same capacity; make sure it throws out as much oily smoke as possible so the people around it think it's a two-stroke, though. And, above all, keep this horrid machine in production way, way after its sell-by date - a date which has already passed 30 years ago even when the first one rolls off the production line. Think it couldn't be done? I've got a petrol generator at home - an 80cc four-stroke engine, rather than the ubiquitous 50cc two-stroke - and all I'd have to do is ship it to Cuba and have it shoved in the front not-quite-luggage bay of a Thundersley Invacar. How hard can it be?

Maybe I'll try it, paint it red (with some emulsion from Wilkinson's), see if I can sell one to Ernesto Vita, and convince him to enter it into the World Touring Car Championship.

Fun fact: I actually live a walking distance away from the Manor Trading estate where the Thundersley Invacar wad built! Used to see some on the road around there while they were in production. I half-wish that I had chosen that rather than the DeLorean for the one-off 2014 Bathurst 24 Hour Enduro...

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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tBone »

dinizintheoven wrote:Great story about Soviet cars


Thanks a lot for that! Awesome to know there were some even more rejectful cars out there. However, I don't feel they were as out of place as the Yugo was. After all, the Yugo was (attempted to be) sold in Western Europe as well...
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dinizintheoven »

Who said it was only the Yugo that crawled its way into Western Europe? Here's a list of all the communist cars I can think of that were ever sold in Britain:

Lada 1200/1300/1600, Lada Riva, Lada Samara, Moskvich 408/412, Skoda 1000MB, Skoda Estelle/Rapid, Skoda Favorit, Dacia Denem, Dacia Duster (a.k.a. Aro 10), FSO 125p, FSO Polonez, Yugo 45/55/56, Yugo 311/411/511, Yugo Sana.

Bear in mind this means that this is only the list of cars that were built in right-hand-drive! So it doesn't include the Trabants, Wartburgs, Syrenas and anything else that stayed on the continent but not necessarily behind the Iron Curtain. And of all those, the least rejectful (as I said) were the Skoda Favorit and Yugo Sana, first launched as the cracks started to appear in the communist regimes and launched this side of the channel as the people of the people's workers' paradise were in open rebellion against it. The Yugo 45/55/65 series, based on the Fiat 127, was launched a bit earlier, in 1983 - the year the 127 was replaced by the Uno, so the Serbian challenger wouldn't tread on the toes of its sharp-suited Italian boss. Even so, it put up a better fight than any other Eastern Bloc car did until the arrival of the Favorit.

A goldmine out there for car nerds is Trigger's Retro Road Tests, which does exactly what it says on the tin - scanned articles of road tests from car magazines. Some go as far back as the 1950s, but most are 1970s-1990s, and track the progress of the communists' attempts to overthrow decadent Western capitalism with its cars (or, to put it another way, to bring a bit of much-needed decadent Western capitalist cash into the socialist workers' paradise after it became obvious that "we don't need money to function" just didn't wash).

Here's an early one from 1975 in which the newly-launched Polski-Fiat 125p goes up against its closest British opposition - the bare-bones base model Ford Escort Popular - and the base-model Honda Civic, at a time when Japanese cars still weren't accepted as much more than a cheap joke (they passed that baton to their Korean neighbours in the 1980s). At the time the 125p was a nine-year-old design and had been built in Poland for eight of those years - the Escort was hot off the press but Ford's meat-and-potatoes engineering meant the 1975 MkII owed rather a lot to the original 1968 MkI and the Escort/125p test was, in all reality, a fair one - and the Escort Popular was the cheapest car it was possible to buy until the Pole arrived to undercut it.

This test from 1985 weighs up the merits of the FSO Polonez, Skoda Estelle, Lada Riva and Yugo 513 against each other, aimed at the impoverished motorist with little money to spend who doesn't want to brave the minefield - as it was at the time - of the used car dealer. For the same price as these communist clunkers it was possible to buy a three-year-old Escort or Astra, but clocking was rife and there was little way of checking the car's condition and mileage were genuine; buy a new Lada, for instance, and you've at least got the peace of mind of no hidden history and a year's warranty. The verdict, for those who knew what they were getting was: you'd be OK with the Yugo and wouldn't be completely laughed at, the Lada would at least be barely tolerable, but don't touch the other two with a barge pole. Likewise, another earlier test from 1983 had compared the four marques above - same models, except for the FSO 125p instead of the Polonez - alongside Korean opposition, the Hyundai Pony (which must have been an absolute scream in Cockney East London, if you see what I mean). Much the same conclusion was drawn; the stand-out car of the five was the Hyundai, but it was significantly more expensive, thus not challenging the Eastern Bloc's trump card - the rock-bottom price. Even so, the Yugo again came out on top of the communist cars, being the least ancient of the designs.

Eastern cars sold to people who could afford no more, so occasionally there was another test against Western opposition that was equally cheap. So, in 1984, with an innovative test scoring system, the Skoda Estelle and Lada Riva - stodgy old designs derived from a 1950s Renault and a 1960s Fiat - challenged France's "peasant's car", the Citroen 2CV, still being built after 40 years, and Britain's answer to the French "voiture sans permis", the Reliant Rialto, with one wheel conspicuously missing. The test was to find exactly how much quality motoring could be extracted from bargain-basement cars; tellingly, even the Daihatsu Domino, Japan's "kei car" designed mainly for its domestic market to pack as much into as small a package as possible, was considered too expensive! To make the test between these vastly different cars fair, the reviewers decided that a score of 10 represented that the car was as good as a Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6 GL, which pretty much represented "Mr. Average" (a Ford Sierra of the same spec would most likely have done the same job). Meanwhile, a score of 0 represented the abilities of the Fiat 126, the tiny, cheap and incompetent Italian which the reviewers loathed (though its predecessor, the 500, was practically sanctified). The cars were driven in heavy London traffic, blasted down the M4 at full belt all the way to Wales, then driven through some challenging mountain roads - in winter, where the Welsh weather was exactly as you'd expect. No prizes for guessing which car was given a horrifying rating for handling. There was no Yugo in this test, the Lada being chosen to represent "the old Fiat-derived designs", but likely as not, you could apply the same ratings in this test; just remember that the Yugo would be a smaller car costing slightly more and adjust your expectations accordingly.

Finally, the later years; communism may have fallen in Eastern Europe but its cars lived on. How could they compete in 1994? So the not-entirely-rejectful Skoda Favorit and the still very nasty Lada Samara were put up against what they could live against on price - our good old Mini, 35 years old but still built because people kept buying it (14 years after the Metro was supposed to have seen it off) - and the Fiat Cinquecento, the newcomer of the four, launched in 1992 and built in post-communist Poland. As with the oddball test above, there was an obvious difference in size - the Skoda and Lada were about the same size as a MkII Golf, whereas the Mini and Fiat were in the smallest sector of the market. The conclusion was that you could either have space or quality - though by this time, it was clear VW's involvement with Skoda was paying off; the 1994 Favorit was right on the brink of unrejectification, and was about as un-communist as a car could be for something launched in Eastern Europe in the 1980s. Next year it was replaced by the Felicia, and the rest is history.

By 1994, of course, Yugo was done and dusted in Western Europe; Yugoslavia had ripped itself apart in a civil war that made the News At Ten for all the wrong reasons, and sales of the Sana stopped here in 1993. Trigger doesn't have a road test of the Sana, but Top Gear does - in its old days, when it was still a consumer-based magazine programme. Tiff Needell tested it in 1990 - and found it to be a tolerable car to live with, not without its shortcomings, but certainly a huge improvement on what Eastern Europe had come up with before.

In 1986, of the three "attempt at a modern design" communist cars - the Skoda Favorit, Lada Samara and Yugo Sana - only the Lada had been launched and would not reach the UK until November 1987. This meant bargain-basement Eastern Bloc motoring was limited mostly to the 1960s designs inherited from Fiat. If you thought it was only the current incarnation of Top Gear that spoke its mind about terrible cars, think again. Long-term TG anchorman William Woollard was considered to be the antithesis of Jeremy Clarkson (even though the two worked together from 1989-92) but even he was utterly blunt about the abilities of what the East had to offer. Fast forward three years to 1989, the Favorit's been launched, and Chris Goffey gave it (mostly) the thumbs up. If anything, it comes across in his review as a better car than the Sana did a year later.

So, I have given you all the evidence I can dig out of what I've known is out there for many months. Decide for yourselves which of the Eastern Bloc cars were tolerable enough to live with against the Western competition, and which were nasty heaps of hateful junk that were better off being shot by East German border guards as they attempted to jump the Berlin Wall. And don't forget we made more than a few horrors ourselves.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tBone »

All right, maybe the Yugo was not the best choice for such a car. Its image is actually worse than the car may have been, now I read your links.

However, I have another alternative which gives a nice reject feeling. I present you: the Yue Loong Feeling from Taiwan!
They made it to Europe, though only in the Netherlands, 130 were sold. They were too expensive for what they offered (same price as the Mazda 626 at the time), somehow the service parts didn't make it to Europe and in the end the Dutch importer bought all of them (but one, apparently) back for the same price they were sold for.

Dutch magazine Autovisie tested this thing at the time and compared it to the Lada Samara. The Yue Loong was about 3x as expensive and they thought the Lada was better... :P

EDIT: of course there were way more pieces of horror, also from the West as you say. It's probably possible to make another 50 dishonourable mentions.
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by dinizintheoven »

tBone wrote:All right, maybe the Yugo was not the best choice for such a car. Its image is actually worse than the car may have been, now I read your links.

As for the perception of the Yugo being worse than it was... we can probably blame North America for that, most likely the USA (and I've seen you referred to it as the GV, which it was only known as on the other side of the Atlantic). As far as I can tell it was the only car from Eastern Europe to be sold in the North American market, and despite there being many below-par domestic horrors with flaky build quality in the 80s, the Yugo's major crime was to be all of that and smaller in a country where bigger has always been interpreted as better. Then there's the political hot potato, when Reagan and Brezhnev/Andropov/Chernenko/Gorbachev snarled and waved nuclear missiles at each other as the rest of us looked on nervously, the sales brochure had to make it very clear that "the Yugo is built in Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia is not a COMECON country and is not affiliated with the Soviet Union." (I sort-of-quote from memory, I've been trying to find a jpeg of the brochure; I think it'll be in Trigger's collection somewhere, but there's masses of that to comb through.) So there's no way an American customer would ever have been able to buy a Lada, or a Skoda, or a Polski-Fiat or any of the other communist plagues on motoring; anyone who even thought about setting up an import business would immediately be branded as a traitor and dragged in front of Joseph McCarthy and a cigar-chomping executive from Detroit to explain his actions or face 50 years in Alcatraz. The Yugo, not being a product of the Warsaw Pact, wasn't subject to the same scrutiny and was allowed to slide through the net. Meanwhile, those of us in Western Europe who had experienced of a lot more of the East's automotive mistakes looked on at the Yanks and thought "if only they knew how much worse it could be..."

tBone wrote:However, I have another alternative which gives a nice reject feeling. I present you: the Yue Loong Feeling from Taiwan!
They made it to Europe, though only in the Netherlands, 130 were sold. They were too expensive for what they offered (same price as the Mazda 626 at the time), somehow the service parts didn't make it to Europe and in the end the Dutch importer bought all of them (but one, apparently) back for the same price they were sold for.
Dutch magazine Autovisie tested this thing at the time and compared it to the Lada Samara. The Yue Loong was about 3x as expensive and they thought the Lada was better... :P

Now there's one I hadn't heard of - but if I was to compare the Yue Loong Feeling with anything available to the British market, it'd be a Proton. It's the same principle of Japanese designs being sold off to much less wealthy Pacific Rim countries, where they're built solely for those domestic markets until the manufacturers decided they could make a bit of extra cash exporting them to foreign shores for a knockdown price. Proton built obsolete Mitsubishi models, Perdoua some reconstituted Daihatsus; Yue Loong's brief was to build old Nissans instead, from what I can gather from the Dutch article.

Somehow I doubt the Yue Loong Feeling was anywhere near as bad as a Lada Samara; old Japanese technology should beat Russian in-house design any day. One obvious point that may have been the Feeling's undoing was its wacky name - Nissan were, after all, responsible for the Cedric and Gloria in their early days, and Yue Loong built the Cedric for the Taiwanese market, so it may not have seemed odd to them at the time - though the less said about concept car names in Japan the better (Honda's HR-V, for instance, was advertised with the slogan "Joy Machine"; this was half its concept car name...) Then there's the unknown brand of the car itself; Mitsubishi, when they launched in Europe, branded themselves as Colt so it sounded less like a company that made cheap digital watches and personal stereos, reverting only to its parent name when the European market was accustomed to hearing Japanese names and respected the products more. An attempt in 1983 to import Australian-built Mitsubishi Sigmas into Britain as the Lonsdale YD41 fell flat on its face; that the car was already sold here as the Colt Galant didn't help, but if a brand name that doesn't sound "overly foreign" to a conservative market couldn't make it, what chance did Yue Loong have? See the similar story of SsangYong in the 1990s, their absorption into Daewoo who at least had a very different and aggressive strategy to not sink like a depth charge, the return of SsangYong making some hideous affronts to car design, and the end of Daewoo as a brand when GM moved in.
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CoopsII
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by CoopsII »

Top Ten Kraftwerk
1 - Tour De France Soundtracks
2 - Trans Europa Express
3 - Computerwelt
4 - Die Mencsh Maschine
5 - Autobahn
6 - Minimum Maximum
7 - Radioaktivität
8 - The Mix
9 - Techno Pop
10 - Ralf Und Florian
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tBone
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by tBone »

dinizintheoven wrote:It's the same principle of Japanese designs being sold off to much less wealthy Pacific Rim countries, where they're built solely for those domestic markets until the manufacturers decided they could make a bit of extra cash exporting them to foreign shores for a knockdown price. Proton built obsolete Mitsubishi models, Perdoua some reconstituted Daihatsus; Yue Loong's brief was to build old Nissans instead, from what I can gather from the Dutch article.

Only difference is, it wasn't sold for a knockdown price. Which was definitely its main reason for failure, I suppose.
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Rob Dylan
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Re: TOTB (ten of the best)

Post by Rob Dylan »

CoopsII wrote:Top Ten Kraftwerk
1 - Tour De France Soundtracks
2 - Trans Europa Express
3 - Computerwelt
4 - Die Mencsh Maschine
5 - Autobahn
6 - Minimum Maximum
7 - Radioaktivität
8 - The Mix
9 - Techno Pop
10 - Ralf Und Florian

I never thought much of Tour de France actually, I was always more of a fan of Trans Europa Express. Maybe it's because I found a decent original LP of it when I was in Germany, so it holds a lot of memories as well as value to me. I get slated often when I say I think Kraftwerk were far more a singles band than an album band <braces himself>.
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