Grand Prix Rejects

I think this is interesting, that the 2016 and 2017 Indy 500s are the ZZ Top of motorsport. In the same way that the only member of ZZ Top without a beard has the surname Beard, the only female entrant of those Indy 500s has the surname Mann...

dr-baker wrote:I think this is interesting, that the 2016 and 2017 Indy 500s are the ZZ Top of motorsport. In the same way that the only member of ZZ Top has the surname Beard, the only female entrant of those Indy 500s has the surname Mann...

I think you may have missed a word in there, as I don't think that Frank Beard was the only member of ZZ Top

tommykl wrote:

dr-baker wrote:I think this is interesting, that the 2016 and 2017 Indy 500s are the ZZ Top of motorsport. In the same way that the only member of ZZ Top without a beard has the surname Beard, the only female entrant of those Indy 500s has the surname Mann...

I think you may have missed a word in there, as I don't think that Frank Beard was the only member of ZZ Top

Thanks. Edited for clarification. How I feel:

Reminds me also of British relay team back in the day. The guy on the left in this picture is named Roger Black.

And, as pointed out in the comments section below that tweet, they both have one win each.

Was this the first Grand Prix where every driver had previously scored points in their career?

FullMetalJack wrote:Was this the first Grand Prix where every driver had previously scored points in their career?

2014 USA and Brazil both had every driver be former pointscorers. Even Esteban...

I will admit, though, that any further examples would be a tough find.

EDIT: Make that almost the entire first half of 2009 as well, from Malaysia to Germany.
EDIT 2: 2008 from Silverstone onwards.
EDIT 3: 2005 France and Great Britain.

Ok, someone else can take over.

I was thinking "When was the last time there were no world champions on the podium? It must be a long time ago". Then I looked and discovered it was actually only recently at Malaysia 2016: Ricciardo-Verstappen-Rosberg. And before that it was Belgium 2014: Ricciardo-Rosberg-Bottas. Continuing to look back, I've found Malaysia 2010, with Vettel-Webber-Kubica.

Considering that Vettel and Rosberg have become world champions since those races, if you want to go back to a race where none of the podium sitters were champions, and none of them would go on to being champions, you have to look back to nine years ago at Canada 2008: Kubica-Heidfeld-Coulthard. That's ages ago.

Not really an F1 stat, but it involves a former F1 driver.

Ralf Schumacher has raced at Fuji Speedway 6 times in his career (3 times in Formula Nippon, twice in JGTC, and the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix.

In these 6 races, he failed to finish in ALL of them.

Following the death of Leo Kinnunen, Finland dropped from the countries which have all their Grand Prix participants alive.

These include:
Chile (Salazar)
Czech Republic (Enge)
Denmark (Belso, Nelleman, J.Magnussen, Kiesa, K.Magnussen)
Hungary (HWNSNBM)
India (Karthikeyan, Chandhok)
Indonesia (Haryanto)
Japan (Fushida, Hasemi, Takahara, Hoshino, Takahashi, S.Nakajima, A.Suzuki, Hattori, Katayama, T.Suzuki, Noda, Inoue, Nakano, Takagi, Sato, Ide, Yamamoto, K.Nakajima, Kobayashi)
Liechtenstein (von Opel)
Malaysia (Yoong)
Poland (Kubica)
Russia (Petrov, Kvyat)

Additional FP drivers from aforementioned countries:
Charouz (Czech Republic)
Motoyama (Japan)
Fauzy (Malaysia)
Sirotkin (Russia)

Countries with only FP drivers
China (Ma, Fong who is from Hong Kong which is part of China)
Israel (Nissany)

Countries with all participants living but some entrants not:
Colombia: Ricardo Londono was refused entry. Both drivers who participated (Guerrero, Montoya) are alive.
Portugal: Casimiro de Oliveira entered but did not arrive. Four participants (de Cabral, Chaves, Lamy, Monteiro) are alive.

Hungary will be the first Brazilian-less Grand Prix since... Imola 1982.

Bleu wrote:Japan (Fushida, Hasemi, Takahara, Hoshino, Takahashi, S.Nakajima, A.Suzuki, Hattori, Katayama, T.Suzuki, Noda, Inoue, Nakano, Takagi, Sato, Ide, Yamamoto, K.Nakajima, Kobayashi)

Further proof that the people of Japan are actually immortal.

(But their engines are not)

Simtek wrote:Hungary will be the first Brazilian-less Grand Prix since... Imola 1982.

Is there any other nation that had such a long unbroken stint of at least one driver in F1? Italy and France come to mind?

Waris wrote:

Simtek wrote:Hungary will be the first Brazilian-less Grand Prix since... Imola 1982.

Is there any other nation that had such a long unbroken stint of at least one driver in F1? Italy and France come to mind?

Britain I imagine has to be high on the list too.

dr-baker wrote:

Waris wrote:

Simtek wrote:Hungary will be the first Brazilian-less Grand Prix since... Imola 1982.

Is there any other nation that had such a long unbroken stint of at least one driver in F1? Italy and France come to mind?

Britain I imagine has to be high on the list too.

Going purely from memory, the UK has had a driver on every Grand Prix entry list since 1952, with no British drivers making the grid in Monaco in 1980 and none making the start in Indy 2005.

France have at least one from late 1967 to Panis' retirement at the end of 2004. Italy's longest run would start during 1973 and end with Trulli and Liuzzi disappearing after 2011, non-qualifications and non-starts (again, Indy) in the intervening period notwithstanding.

Other long-runners at the moment are Finland (since 1991), Germany (late 1991) and Spain (1999).

Simtek wrote:Hungary will be the first Brazilian-less Grand Prix since... Imola 1982.

Is there any other nation that had such a long unbroken stint of at least one driver in F1? Italy and France come to mind?[/quote]
Britain I imagine has to be high on the list too.[/quote]
Going purely from memory, the UK has had a driver on every Grand Prix entry list since 1952, with no British drivers making the grid in Monaco in 1980 and none making the start in Indy 2005.

France have at least one from late 1967 to Panis' retirement at the end of 2004. Italy's longest run would start during 1973 and end with Trulli and Liuzzi disappearing after 2011, non-qualifications and non-starts (again, Indy) in the intervening period notwithstanding.

Other long-runners at the moment are Finland (since 1991), Germany (late 1991) and Spain (1999).[/quote]

Finland isn't since 1991 but the oddball race in Hungary 1994 where Häkkinen was serving his race ban, Lehto was sidelined by Benetton and Salo didn't get his random F1 shot yet

I'm not sure about this one but this season is probably the one with most team mate collisions in recent history.

With Sainz's move to Renault all but confirmed, this creates an interesting statistic: with the exception of Vitantonio Liuzzi, who took a one and a half year sabbatical before driving for Force India, the Spaniard is the first Toro Rosso driver to move directly to an F1 team that isn't Red Bull, with every other driver to take a seat there either moving to the main team or both starting and ending their F1 career at Toro Rosso (weirdly, Kvyat looks like he'll actually do both!).

It certainly highlights both the strictly linear nature of the Red Bull Junior platform, but arguably also how ruthless it is- those drivers don't get a second chance in Formula One if Helmut Marko dislikes them, even if they are arguably deserving of an F1 place, like Bourdais or Vergne (interesting that they're both French- this does not bode well for Gasly)

This Could Be You wrote:It certainly highlights both the strictly linear nature of the Red Bull Junior platform, but arguably also how ruthless it is- those drivers don't get a second chance in Formula One if Helmut Marko dislikes them, even if they are arguably deserving of an F1 place, like Bourdais or Vergne (interesting that they're both French- this does not bode well for Gasly)

I feel Jaime Alguersuari's dismissal was rather undeserved, he could've been a solid teammate opposite Vettel at Red Bull. Then again, maybe Marko and co. felt he lacked something special that Ricciardo had (few are able to do banzai moves like Dan can). Still, I can't help but feel that Jaime might still be racing (or would've gone on for a bit longer) had he not gotten the chop so prematurely.

When was the last race that both Ferraris were out on the first lap?

Rob Dylan wrote:When was the last race that both Ferraris were out on the first lap?

David Croft said there wasn't one, specifying this as true for exactly two starting.

That's quite incredible - it's one of those firsts where you assume it's already happened at least once in the last 67 years

But yeah - assuming that Hamilton wins this title, which it looks likely that he will - this will go down as one of the all-time moments for the picture book of moments championships were lost.

good_Ralf wrote:

This Could Be You wrote:It certainly highlights both the strictly linear nature of the Red Bull Junior platform, but arguably also how ruthless it is- those drivers don't get a second chance in Formula One if Helmut Marko dislikes them, even if they are arguably deserving of an F1 place, like Bourdais or Vergne (interesting that they're both French- this does not bode well for Gasly)

I feel Jaime Alguersuari's dismissal was rather undeserved, he could've been a solid teammate opposite Vettel at Red Bull. Then again, maybe Marko and co. felt he lacked something special that Ricciardo had (few are able to do banzai moves like Dan can). Still, I can't help but feel that Jaime might still be racing (or would've gone on for a bit longer) had he not gotten the chop so prematurely.

Alguersuari was contacted by Team Enstone for 2012 drive (I think to partner Kimi), but Marko was stating intention to keep him, but then he was dropped anyway. At that point Grosjean had got the seat at Enstone.

How I can recall the situation, it was mostly expected that STR would go into 2012 with Ricciardo and one of their 2011 drivers. Vergne getting the second seat was more surprising.

Had a look on collisions and drivers involved, data starting from 2011. The target was to find who has been most often in the collision where other driver was at fault. Massa and Hamilton had 9 such incidents, but with Massa being penalized just once he got the top spot here.

Not surprising to see Maldonado on the other end of the table, though it might shine out that he was the victim six times in addition to the crashes he caused.

Bleu wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

This Could Be You wrote:It certainly highlights both the strictly linear nature of the Red Bull Junior platform, but arguably also how ruthless it is- those drivers don't get a second chance in Formula One if Helmut Marko dislikes them, even if they are arguably deserving of an F1 place, like Bourdais or Vergne (interesting that they're both French- this does not bode well for Gasly)

I feel Jaime Alguersuari's dismissal was rather undeserved, he could've been a solid teammate opposite Vettel at Red Bull. Then again, maybe Marko and co. felt he lacked something special that Ricciardo had (few are able to do banzai moves like Dan can). Still, I can't help but feel that Jaime might still be racing (or would've gone on for a bit longer) had he not gotten the chop so prematurely.

Alguersuari was contacted by Team Enstone for 2012 drive (I think to partner Kimi), but Marko was stating intention to keep him, but then he was dropped anyway. At that point Grosjean had got the seat at Enstone.

How I can recall the situation, it was mostly expected that STR would go into 2012 with Ricciardo and one of their 2011 drivers. Vergne getting the second seat was more surprising.

I was gutted that Alguersuari left Formula 1 in the way that he did, but let's not forget he was offered a seat at HRT after his Toro Rosso drop, and he dismissed it with disdain. Had he taken a year in HRT, there is always a chance that something might have come up for him in 2013. Conjecture, I know, but a drive is a drive.

I get the feeling that Jaime was kinda...pushed into racing by his Mad Dad. He had talent, certainly, but I don't think he entirely had the desire to spend his life racing. Suffice it to say I don't think he'll ever pick up motorsport again.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

Rob Dylan wrote:When was the last race that both Ferraris were out on the first lap?

David Croft said there wasn't one, specifying this as true for exactly two starting.

This is one of those asterisk scenarios. Both Ferraris collided at the first corner of the 1976 British GP, triggering the pile-up that would lead to the red flag. They would almost certainly have retired on the spot if no red flag was shown.

They also collided on the first lap in Spain the previous year, but Regazzoni continued after a very lengthy pit stop for repairs.

I listed every driver who had, in the 2010s, been entered in:
*An F1 race
*At least 8 GP2 or FE races
*At least 8 IndyCar or 2011-14 FR3.5 races in a single season
and counted up the nationalities.

>9 drivers
1. United Kingdom (28)
2. Brazil (22)
3. France (18)
4. Germany (14)
=. Italy
=. United States

5-9 drivers
7. Spain (9)
=. Russia
9. Netherlands (8)
=. Switzerland
11. Colombia (7)
=. Japan
13. Canada (5)
=. New Zealand
=. Venezuela

<5 drivers
16. Finland (4)
=. Sweden
3 drivers: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mexico, Monaco, Portugal, Romania
2 drivers: Argentina, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, India
1 driver: Bulgaria, China, Cyprus, Norway, Philippines, Poland, South Africa, Thailand, UAE

Julián Leal was counted as Colombian, and Ed Jones was counted as Emirati.

Gave each country points based on their drivers' championship positions from 2010 to 2016. The system is:

1. Germany (279)
2. United Kingdom (176)
3. Spain (95)
4. Australia (93)
5. Finland (80)
6. Brazil (61)
7. France (33)
8. Mexico (30)
9. Russia (20)
10. Netherlands (14)
11. Japan (12)
12. Venezuela (9)
13. Poland (6)
14. Denmark (6)
15. Switzerland (4)
16. Italy (2)
17. Sweden (2)
18. Belgium (1)
=. United States (1)

With Gasly replacing Kvyat at Toro Rosso for now, the 2017 Malaysian GP will be the first since the 2013 Brazilian GP not to feature a Russian driver, and the first to feature three or more French drivers since the 2014 Japanese GP.

To be honest, Russia have done all right on the representation front this decade. They had Petrov for three straight seasons, and after a year gap they've had Kvyat for four straight seasons. Hell, if Markelov gets lucky there might be another token Russian next year.

Everytime Kyvat loses his seat. Verstappen wins the next race.

Also this is the first season since 2013 with at least 5 different winners. Which leaves just Kimi out of the top 6 yet to reach the top step.

Remember in Monaco when we were all slating Stroll and Vandoorne for not being up to it?

Well now look: Stroll (32) and Vandoorne (13) have more points in total than their teammates Massa (33) and Alonso (10).

Aislabie wrote:Remember in Monaco when we were all slating Stroll and Vandoorne for not being up to it?

Well now look: Stroll (32) and Vandoorne (13) have more points in total than their teammates Massa (33) and Alonso (10).

Though outscoring Massa isnt much of an achievement and Alonso's lack of motivation also distorts the image a bit. Neverthless they've both proven to be at least decent and still have potential to grow.

Let's have a little Brendon Hartley stats breakdown:

He's the first Kiwi in F1 since Mike Thackwell. We all know this. However, Thackwell tended to identify more as an Australian, having grown up in Perth, and he's mostly been living in the UK since his Formula Ford days. The last driver from New Zealand who also grew up there was the great Chris Amon, who last drove in 1976 and spent much of his retirement living in Taupo.

He's the oldest Toro Rosso driver since Sébastien Bourdais, although any one of us could have guessed that.

Speaking of Toro Rosso, they will go into Austin having replaced both of the drivers they ran at Suzuka. The last time this happened between races was when Manor began the 2016 season with Merhi and Stevens getting swapped out for Haryanto and Wehrlein. More interestingly, the last time this happened mid-season was at Jerez in 1994: Lotus' drivers from the previous race at Estoril were Philippe Adams and Johnny Herbert, who were replaced by Éric Bernard (whose place at Ligier was taken by Herbert) and Alex Zanardi (whose seat Adams had temporarily acquired).

Hartley is also one of this year's Le Mans winners after a phenomenal comeback drive that denied us an LMP2 overall win. Nico Huelkenberg is also a Le Mans winner. The last time we had two of those sharing an F1 grid was back in 2000 with Herbert and Wurz.

I'm sure there's more stuff.

All three times it's happened:

Every time Kvyat gets fired, Verstappen wins.

Rob Dylan wrote:All three times it's happened:

Every time Kvyat gets fired, Verstappen wins.

That means either no more wins, or either Kvyat's gonna be fired a lot of times in his life. Poor Daniil.

Brendon Hartley has now raced under two different numbers within the same season, which made me think: who was the last driver to do that? And the one before, and... how many have there been, since the pay-driver-crazed days of the 1990s?

So these are the previous eight drivers to have done so - not counting those who have only driven in a practice session, otherwise we'd have another one this year in Antonio Giovinazzi (racing for Sauber with the temporary #36 and then testing for Haas with #50), and more than a handful before that.

Daniel Ricciardo, 2011: drove the #23 HRT in the Indian Grand Prix, whereas he'd had the #22 car for all his other races advertising YOUR LOGO HERE - so technically he changed twice in the season, but I'm only counting him once.

Sakon Yamamoto, 2010: also at HRT, drove the #21 car for one race instead of Bruno Senna, then took over Karun Chandhok's #20 car for most of the rest of the season.

Giancarlo Fisichella, 2009: moved from the #21 Force India to the #3 Ferrari (to no effect whatsoever).

Sebastian Vettel, 2007: drove one race in Robert Kubica's #10 BMW, then moved to the #19 Toro Rosso in place of Scott Speed, and annoyed Mark Webber for what would not be the last time.

Jarno Trulli and Ricardo Zonta, 2004: Trulli moved from the #7 Renault to the #16 Toyota, which had been Zonta's; though there were only two races left in the season, Olivier Panis soon decided he'd had enough and so Zonta was given his #17 Toyota for the last race.

Justin Wilson, 2003: moved from the #18 Minardi to the #15 Jaguar, and caused a lot of headaches for their cockpit designers.

Heinz-Harald Frentzen, 2002: the #20 Arrows was removed from underneath him when the team went bust, but he took the #8 Sauber for one race when Felipe Massa was benched in his earlier nutcase days.

And that brings us to the last example I could remember off the top of my head - the crazy driver merry-go-round of 2001, which saw four drivers change numbers: Luciano Burti (#19 Jaguar to #23 Prost), Heinz-Harald Frentzen (sacked from #11 Jordan, moved to #22 Prost), Jean Alesi (went the other way, #22 Prost to #12 Jordan), and Jarno Trulli (moved from the #12 Jordan to #11 for reasons which have never been specified, why Alesi didn't just take the #11 car is beyond me).

So that's a mere 12 in-season racing number changes in the 17 seasons of the 21st Century so far (and there were none in 2000, either). Aren't you all glad you know that now?