Overrated and Underrated Sportspeople

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 13 Jun 2013, 20:50

As my last topic went horribly wrong (Don't worry I've got over it now as i'm sure most people have had locked topics) I think a better topic would be to discuss who is Overrated and who is Underrated ie: Who falls woefully short of their hype and who is actually better than people's expectations would have you believe

One man who falls perfectly into the latter catergory is Nico Rosberg. I've always rated Nico highly and if you give him a car that is quick and designed to suit him plus have him paired with a super fast team-mate at the height of his powers then he can touch anyone. I think he should have more than just the 1 Win he currently has this season if the Mercedes wasn't a tire eating machine. On paper only 8 podiums in his entire career isn't spectacular considering the likes of Alonso Hamilton and Vettel are capable of scoring 8 podiums in a single season but you have to remember that he's been saddled with a Williams team on the decline (Indeed before Maldonado's Win in Spain last year Rosberg had scored the team's last podium in Singapore 2008) and he's been with Mercedes when they are getting up to speed so it's no wonder he hasn't got a higher podium count than he should have.

One man who is defiantly overrated is Paul di Resta. We've spoken about Paul time and time again about how his personality is level with a Glass of Milk but the BBC and Sky believe that this guy is the next British hope after Jenson Button hangs up his helmet but so far I've only seen about 4-5 good drives but nothing more from him and I'm still struggling to give him credit for his drives this year. Just like Perez last year Di Resta achieved his best results through making one stop less than those around him. In Bahrain i think if he'd done 3 stops he would have been 7th-8th instead of 4th while i think in Canada he would have been 9th-10th had he made 2 stops instead of 7th. I'm sorry but until i see a result from him on pure pace he hasn't done anything to convince me he is living up to his hype.

Post by **Londoner** » 13 Jun 2013, 20:53

For the overrated catagory, I have but two nouns to say.

Jacques Villeneuve.

That is all.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Jun 2013, 20:54

Doesn't Nico now have two wins, not just one? China last year, Monaco this year?

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 13 Jun 2013, 20:56

dr-baker wrote:Doesn't Nico now have two wins, not just one? China last year, Monaco this year?

Don't worry baker i've just realized my mistake and edited it to this season

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 13 Jun 2013, 21:09

I think Roberto Moreno is one of the most underrated drivers in Formula 1, considering that he scored AGS' first point, got a Coloni on the grid for 4 times in 1989, scored a podium in his first race for Benetton, and even managed to qualify in an Andrea Moda.

Post by **Ataxia** » 13 Jun 2013, 22:01

This is all relative to the countries' independent media, though. Perhaps Di Resta is a bit overrated by the British press and coverage, but I would suspect that in other countries he's probably not mentioned so much. Even though he's somewhat a bit of a lightning rod for the stick this forum dishes out, he's still a pretty handy driver when he's not complaining. He's been in the points in every race except Malaysia this season, and currently sits 8th in the championship. Although everyone here was largely apathetic about the Di Resta/Sutil pairing at Force India, you have to (perhaps begrudgingly for some) admit they've both performed rather well.

That said, I think Nico has finally received his deserved compliments recently; the British media that's not entirely blinkered by Hamilton has suggested that he's doing a very good job indeed (and the portion that is puts blame on Hamilton's laments that he's not used to the car, despite the fact that he's had quite a while to do so). Prior to this season, I would agree that it's been very difficult to gauge where he sat in relation to other drivers; although the scoreboard didn't quite agree he was mainly on level terms with Webber in 2006, but that's the only reliable marker point we've had. Wurz was a returnee after several years out of the cockpit on a regular basis, Nakajima was never a particularly special driver so being comprehensively beaten by Nico was expected, and of course we weren't sure how much Schumacher had depreciated out of the cockpit.

A driver who I think was rather underrated by teams over the years was Allan McNish. He'd been on the periphery of F1 for years, and was very unlucky in not breaking through until the call-up to join Toyota. He was usually quite close to the more experienced Mika Salo in 2002, who was renowned for being a very handy driver on his day. It was unfortunate that he was dumped at the end of year, because Cristiano Da Matta in particular never really did anything that warranted dumping a capable driver keen to improve.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 13 Jun 2013, 22:52

pi314159 wrote:I think Roberto Moreno is one of the most underrated drivers in Formula 1, considering that he scored AGS' first point, got a Coloni on the grid for 4 times in 1989, scored a podium in his first race for Benetton, and even managed to qualify in an Andrea Moda.

I agree with this. The statistics say it all...

I think both Stefano Modena and Pierluigi Martini are underrated. Martini scored a lot of Minardi's total points and I think lead a lap in Portugal (also their only lap lead) in '89.

As for Modena, he had the ability to be very fast, but never got into a higher (and deserved) seat, which ended his career.

Plus, I agree with Ataxia on McNish being an underrated driver. He should have been in F1 way before 2002, and as Ataxia pointed out, he was close to Mika Salo, who was a fairly experienced driver at the time of 2002.

As for overrated drivers, I'd say Jacques Villeneuve is overrated. He won all of his races in his first two seasons and his championship in the outright best car in both '96 and '97. He didn't do crap ever since except a few podiums for Williams and BAR. Since '97, basically nothing good came from him. Disappointing. Plus, people still rave about him, even when he drives like a total douechebag.*

Another overrated driver I think is Glass of milk Paul di Resta. The British media are on such a rave about him when (before 2013) he basically did nothing but crap at SFI. People also think he is talented, which is the same here. I agree to that. But the British media take it too far again. His answers to questions is why there is a Paul di Resta Quotes thread, because some are comical and just random crap. I think his overratedness is bound to go away soon, but I don't see it happening now.

Sorry for that.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Jun 2013, 22:56

go_Rubens wrote:I think both Stefano Modena and Pierluigi Martini are underrated. Martini scored a lot of Minardi's total points and I think lead a lap in Portugal (also their only lap lead) in '89.

As for Modena, he had the ability to be very fast, but never got into a higher (and deserved) seat, which ended his career.

Modena unfortunately wound up in the career-killer that was the 1992 Jordan. Otherwise, he could've been something special.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 14 Jun 2013, 00:24

One driver who I (personally) feel is underrated is Alex Wurz. He always seems to have a blitzing performance whenever he wakes up on the right side of the bed. Canada 2007. His early days at Benetton. Having a side-by-side battle with Schumi in Monaco. Starting conspiracy theories on website forums dedicated to the not-so-good drivers of F1... actually,ignore that last one. He somehow had a good performance in every season he was in (except maybe 2000).

Overrated... Jenson Button. Sure,I'll credit him with his impressive 2004 performance and his late season form in 2006. But from 2000 to 2008, excluding the periods mentioned above, Button has not really...impressed me. I dunno why,but I feel that Button,when stuck with the shite earth car of 2007 and 2008,never did anything spectacular,or anything really,while Barichello got a podium with the damn thing.2010 to now is not impressive either,having seen Lewis Hamilton have more outright pace than him and seeing Perez light up past him in the races since Bahrain. You may or may not agree with this,but although I feel Button is a good driver,he's not a great one as some people paint him to be.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 14 Jun 2013, 01:32

Underrated: Ukyo Katayama, an ultimate what could have been story.

Overrated: Villenueve, and Antonio Pizzonia. The hype around Pizzonia was immense or at least it was immense from Williams stating he was a future champion. As we all know, Pizzonia is a reject and has a profile here.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jun 2013, 06:42

Underrated:
Nico Rosberg
Heikki Kovaleinen
Allan McNish
Pedro De La Rosa
Anthony Davidson
Bruno Senna (I know he's not a great driver, but he didn't deserve the level of criticism he received)

Overrated
Romain Grosjean
Eddie Irvine
Olivier Panis (post 1997)
Christijan Albers
Giedo van de Garde

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 14 Jun 2013, 07:49

Before this descends into a list of 'Unworthy Champions list' as it surely will :lol:

Id like to nominate Fabrizio Barbazza as underrated. He was outstanding in the 1993 Minardi and even scored a couple of points which when Webber did it was a big deal but that Barbazza did it seems to have been forgotten. Great potential ruined by a lack of funds which indirectly led him to a career finishing accident which forced him out of racing. At least, thats how I remember him.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 14 Jun 2013, 07:58

Gabriele Tarquini is also one underrated driver - he only got crap cars to drive (except maybe the Fondmetal, but it was way too unreliable) but still managed to score a point and managed to qualify rather often despite the equipment he had at hand. You only need to look at his touring car career to see what could have been.

Post by **Londoner** » 14 Jun 2013, 08:55

WaffleCat wrote:One driver who I (personally) feel is underrated is Alex Wurz. He always seems to have a blitzing performance whenever he wakes up on the right side of the bed. Canada 2007. His early days at Benetton. Having a side-by-side battle with Schumi in Monaco. Starting conspiracy theories on website forums dedicated to the not-so-good drivers of F1... actually,ignore that last one. He somehow had a good performance in every season he was in (except maybe 2000).

Wurz was absolute dynamite in the first part of 1998, but I think having two massive accidents in a row (that terrifying crash coming out of the tunnel in Monaco, and rolling his Benetton in Canada) really did seem to knock the wind from his sails, plus the fact that Benetton seemed to lose their edge to Jordan in the second half of the season. Who knows how far he'd have made it if Benetton had remained the third-best team in 1998?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Jun 2013, 10:31

Onxy Wrecked wrote:Underrated: Ukyo Katayama, an ultimate what could have been story.

Ukyo Katayama, "undoubtedly the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced," underrated? :lol:

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 14 Jun 2013, 10:42

To quote Jamie and Enoch from the Andrea Moda profile "Roberto Moreno for the love of the sport would drive a wheely bin if it was offered to him.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 14 Jun 2013, 10:56

I reckon Alessandro Nanninni was massively underrated. If he hadn't had that injury, who knows what could have been? Christian Fittipaldi was pretty handy in the early 90's Minardis as well.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 14 Jun 2013, 12:46

Talking about Barbazza, I would downplay him a bit.

He was beaten 8-0 in qualifyings by Fittipaldi. Martini, who came to replace him, beat CF 4-2, before Fittipaldi was replaced by Gounon for the last two races. Donington was his best qualifying (20th), in other qualifyings he was between 23rd and 25th. Fittipaldi's worst position was 23rd (twice) during first eight races, otherwise he made top 20.

On the plus side for Barbazza, he seemed to be a very good wet-weather driver. The race in Donington showed that, and it was also seen in first qualifyings in Donington (14th) and Monaco (15th). Another point in Imola was pretty much down to attrition. Of the finishers he beat Badoer in a Lola and Suzuki who was delayed many laps.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 14 Jun 2013, 13:46

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Modena unfortunately wound up in the career-killer that was the 1992 Jordan. Otherwise, he could've been something special.

Here is some very interesting insight on Modena from an ex Tyrell engineer (Nigel Beresford) who appeared to work with him in 1991;

Stefano was a nice guy, but after Harvey left he just became more and more disillusioned, insular and sour as the season progressed. He didn't seem to have that innate self confidence that the most successful guys have.

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s ... ibsey&st=0
(see post #28)

East Londoner wrote:
WaffleCat wrote:One driver who I (personally) feel is underrated is Alex Wurz. He always seems to have a blitzing performance whenever he wakes up on the right side of the bed. Canada 2007. His early days at Benetton. Having a side-by-side battle with Schumi in Monaco. Starting conspiracy theories on website forums dedicated to the not-so-good drivers of F1... actually,ignore that last one. He somehow had a good performance in every season he was in (except maybe 2000).

Wurz was absolute dynamite in the first part of 1998, but I think having two massive accidents in a row (that terrifying crash coming out of the tunnel in Monaco, and rolling his Benetton in Canada) really did seem to knock the wind from his sails, plus the fact that Benetton seemed to lose their edge to Jordan in the second half of the season. Who knows how far he'd have made it if Benetton had remained the third-best team in 1998?

Sorry to disagree with you both, but IMO Wurz & Benetton massively benefited from superior Bridgestone tyres in early 1998 hence his good results. In fact, some people believe that Benetton cheated somewhat because they switched from Goodyear tyres to Bridgestone extremely late in the day for the start of the 1998 season, leading people to suggest that they passed on the Goodyear data to the Bridgestone people (hence their early season adavntage). However Goodyear got their act together after Monaco & M Schumi (a Goodyear runner) won the following 3 races thereafter. Also, it is a little known fact that Fisco suffered from a major road car accident in early 1998, hence the reason he wasn't quite on the pace until mid season.

I personally thought Wurz was a little overrated, because that podium result at Sliverstone 1997 was largely down to retirements of other front runners (i.e. M Schumi, Hakkien, Frentzen etc). Also I don't think the 1997 Benetton was that bad a car, I think both Alesi & Berger were under performing partly because they were disenchanted with all the rumours surrounding Benetton at the time. Having said that, I do think he did show some promise during 1997 & 1998, but appeared to lose confident whenever his teammate beat him.

CoopsII wrote:Before this descends into a list of 'Unworthy Champions list' as it surely will

I’ll try & restrain myself this time from mentioning a certain British ex WDC

. Mainly because I haven’t got the time to get involved in another long winded debate like last time.

Underrated IMO;

Chris Amon – JYS rated him as his most talented rival and IIRC didn’t Jim Clark say he was the only driver he truly feared?

Derek Warwick – When Berger was spectating at Monaco 1989 (following his injuries from Imola 1989), he said Warwick was the driver who most impressed him. Also didn’t he win the 1978 British Formula Three Championship ahead of Nelson Piquet? The Renualt move in 1984 & Ayrton Senna's refusal to let Warwick join him as team mate at Lotus in 1986 really stuffed his career IMO.

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jun 2013, 14:03

ibsey wrote:Chris Amon – JYS rated him as his most talented rival and IIRC didn’t Jim Clark say he was the only driver he truly feared?

Nope, that was Dan Gurney, but Mario Andretti did say that "if Chris became an undertaker, people would stop dying", which says a lot about all the bad luck he had.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 14 Jun 2013, 14:06

tommykl wrote:
ibsey wrote:Chris Amon – JYS rated him as his most talented rival and IIRC didn’t Jim Clark say he was the only driver he truly feared?

Nope, that was Dan Gurney, but Mario Andretti did say that "if Chris became an undertaker, people would stop dying", which says a lot about all the bad luck he had.

Thanks for the correction tommykl

. Sadly my memory is not what it used to be.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 14 Jun 2013, 16:58

dr-baker wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:Underrated: Ukyo Katayama, an ultimate what could have been story.

Ukyo Katayama, "undoubtedly the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced," underrated?

His numbers speak a bit differently due to unreliable equipment (look at all those DNFs), but he could have been that way if there wasn't a painful cancerous growth on his back or even a slightly more reliable car of similar performance.

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jun 2013, 17:15

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:Underrated: Ukyo Katayama, an ultimate what could have been story.

Ukyo Katayama, "undoubtedly the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced," underrated?

His numbers speak a bit differently due to unreliable equipment (look at all those DNFs), but he could have been that way if there wasn't a painful cancerous growth on his back or even a slightly more reliable car of similar performance.

You do know all those DNF's are crashes, right? :lol:

Post by **Londoner** » 14 Jun 2013, 17:35

Apparently, we've all forgotten the fact that the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced celebrated his 50th birthday two weeks ago. :oops:

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 14 Jun 2013, 17:38

East Londoner wrote:Apparently, we've all forgotten the fact that the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced celebrated his 50th birthday two weeks ago.

Capelli?

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 14 Jun 2013, 17:55

CoopsII wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Apparently, we've all forgotten the fact that the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced celebrated his 50th birthday two weeks ago.

Capelli?

I always think that Capelli would have been an F1 winner had he had better luck and had he not had his confidence sucked out of him. He should have seen that Ferrari were about to enter a decline and should not have taken the offer to drive for them in 1992.

BTW the clue is in the title

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Jun 2013, 07:20

Kimi-ICE wrote:I always think that Capelli would have been an F1 winner had he had better luck and had he not had his confidence sucked out of him. He should have seen that Ferrari were about to enter a decline and should not have taken the offer to drive for them in 1992.

An Italian turning down a Ferrari drive? Unlikely. In the end the Italian media and Ferrari itself destroyed Capelli. Aswell as all the other things Todt, Brawn and MSC brought to Ferrari they also brought to an end the chaotic, impulsive politics that they'd live by for many, many years.

Post by **mario** » 15 Jun 2013, 09:32

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:Underrated: Ukyo Katayama, an ultimate what could have been story.

Ukyo Katayama, "undoubtedly the best Formula One driver that Grand Prix racing has ever produced," underrated?

His numbers speak a bit differently due to unreliable equipment (look at all those DNFs), but he could have been that way if there wasn't a painful cancerous growth on his back or even a slightly more reliable car of similar performance.

tommykl wrote:You do know all those DNF's are crashes, right?

You're kind of both right in some ways - yes, Katayama did have a lot of DNF's due to driver error, but he also had a lot of retirements due to mechanical problems. He is listed as retiring from 67 races in his career, 35 of which were down to mechanical failures and one was a disqualification for an illegal push start, although that still does leave 31 DNF's due to crashes or driver error.

I would agree with a few posters here that, in terms of current drivers, Rosberg probably was overlooked a bit compared to some of his contemporaries until this season for a number of reasons. As others have pointed out, Williams could only offer Rosberg a moderately competitive car most of the time and, given that neither Wurz nor Nakajima were that highly rated by the paddock, Rosberg was kind of expected to beat them anyway. At Mercedes, meanwhile, whilst Schumacher was initially held up as a stiffer test for Rosberg, at the same time it was a little too easy for some to dismiss Schumacher on the basis of age - in other words, to argue that, since Schumacher was no longer at the peak of his prowess, again an expectation that Rosberg would beat him began to develop, such that it was hard for Rosberg to impress.

Equally, the problem is that Mercedes has been stuck in a bit of a no mans land for a while - in 2010 Rosberg was able to take a few opportunistic podiums when the big three teams made mistakes, but he couldn't pull it off again in 2011 when the major contenders were much more reliable and less error prone and, it could be argued, that as the season wore on in 2012 it was Schumacher that seemed to cope slightly better with the decline in form than Rosberg.
This is the first season in a while where, although the car is still chewing through its tyres at a high rate, the inherent pace of the car is still reasonably strong. Add to that the major slump in McLaren's form and the few rough races that Lotus have had recently, and, for once, Nico seems to have a car at his disposal that may just be quick enough for a podium on merit (Hamilton has taken three 3rd places so far in addition to Nico's win).

Furthermore, Rosberg now has a team mate, in the shape of Hamilton, who is both highly regarded and came off the back of a very competitive 2012 season, so now it is not so easy to dismiss the notion that he should beat his team mate. If anything, the expectation was that Hamilton should be beating Rosberg - although he has, on balance, been more competitive than Rosberg, he hasn't had the advantage that he was expected to have - moreover, the fact that Hamilton has spoken in flattering terms about Nico's performance has boosted his stock even further.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Jun 2013, 11:11

Oliver Gavin - Underrated. Never made it to F1, bar a few afternoons driving the safety car I think, but very promising on the way up in the 90s.

Jean-Christophe Boullion - Overrated. Arrived with much fanfare, left with barely a party popper.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 16 Jun 2013, 21:42

CoopsII wrote:Oliver Gavin - Underrated. Never made it to F1, bar a few afternoons driving the safety car I think, but very promising on the way up in the 90s.

Jean-Christophe Boullion - Overrated. Arrived with much fanfare, left with barely a party popper.

I agree with this. Boullion hasn't done much with Rebellion Racing either. Gavin has had a class win in Le Mans how many times now?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 17 Jun 2013, 00:05

Bouillon isn't even a reject is he? 5th in Germany and 6th in Italy right?

Underrated: Anthony Davidson and (controversial one) Takuma Sato. I'm serious on the second one as everyone seems to remember him as the little Japanese bloke who crashed his way through a debut year with Jordan and then getting completely trounced by button at BAR. Yes, I know his final year with BAR resulted in no points being scored, which is truly shocking, but a lot of people also forget he started from the front row at Nurburgring and scored a podium at Indy. His two-and-a-bit seasons with Super Aguri showed a true team-leader and a determined and motivated driver. I just don't think he ever got the motivation at BAR.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Jun 2013, 00:13

AdrianSutil wrote:Bouillon isn't even a reject is he? 5th in Germany and 6th in Italy right?

Underrated: Anthony Davidson and (controversial one) Takuma Sato. I'm serious on the second one as everyone seems to remember him as the little Japanese bloke who crashed his way through a debut year with Jordan and then getting completely trounced by button at BAR. Yes, I know his final year with BAR resulted in no points being scored, which is truly shocking, but a lot of people also forget he started from the front row at Nurburgring and scored a podium at Indy. His two-and-a-bit seasons with Super Aguri showed a true team-leader and a determined and motivated driver. I just don't think he ever got the motivation at BAR.

Given how strongly Sato has been running in IndyCars this year, I'm inclined to agree.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Jun 2013, 06:41

AdrianSutil wrote:Bouillon isn't even a reject is he? 5th in Germany and 6th in Italy right?

That doesnt subtract from the fact I found him overrated.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 18 Jun 2013, 07:51

Sweden's Ronnie Peterson was easily underrated, as he often extracted the maximum out of some cars, such as those Marches. Then of course he played second fiddle to Mario Andretti when the Lotuses dominated in 1978.
Ronnie's teammate's son, Michael Andretti was probably overrated when he made his debut with McLaren in 1993. Just saying. :lol:

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Jun 2013, 08:02

good_Ralf wrote:Michael Andretti was probably overrated when he made his debut with McLaren in 1993. Just saying.

Funnily enough nearly all the Indycar drivers that tried F1 appeared overrated. Andretti, Bourdais, Zanardi, and Da Matta all arrived with high hopes and high expectations only to drown in the sea of failure.

Ive ommitted Villeneuve because no matter what people think he will always be the 1997 F1 WDC and Montoya was a race-winning tubby ball of awesomeness.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 18 Jun 2013, 11:17

good_Ralf wrote:Sweden's Ronnie Peterson was easily underrated, as he often extracted the maximum out of some cars, such as those Marches. Then of course he played second fiddle to Mario Andretti when the Lotuses dominated in 1978.

I wouldn't say Ronnie Peterson was underrated. It was well-known and widely-accepted fact that Ronnie was a fabulous driver who could drive anything, but he couldn't develop or setup a car to save his life. Every team he drove for was unanimous in their praise for him and his results against his teammates were always good.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Jun 2013, 11:26

good_Ralf wrote:Sweden's Ronnie Peterson was easily underrated, as he often extracted the maximum out of some cars, such as those Marches. Then of course he played second fiddle to Mario Andretti when the Lotuses dominated in 1978.
Ronnie's teammate's son, Michael Andretti was probably overrated when he made his debut with McLaren in 1993. Just saying.

Ronnie Peterson was insanely good. Colin Chapman honestly couldn't have picked a worse person to play second fiddle to Mario Andretti. If they had had equal backing from the team, I have no doubt that Peterson would've beaten Andretti in the end.

Faustus wrote:It was well-known and widely-accepted fact that Ronnie was a fabulous driver who could drive anything, but he couldn't develop or setup a car to save his life. Every team he drove for was unanimous in their praise for him and his results against his teammates were always good.

Well, the setup side of things was largely down to the fact that he'd drive around problems with the car, much like Jim Clark did.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 18 Jun 2013, 20:28

I go with Coulthard in overrated section. He spent most of your career binning than winning. Also, in your last years he was a truly mobile chicane. In 2008 season he crashed with six times, if I remember well:

1-With Massa in Albert Park
2-With Button in Bahrain
3-With Barrichello in Hockenhein
4-With Nakajima in Monza
5-With Nakajima in Fuji
6-With Nakajima again, in Interlagos

Post by **mario** » 18 Jun 2013, 20:46

Faustus wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Sweden's Ronnie Peterson was easily underrated, as he often extracted the maximum out of some cars, such as those Marches. Then of course he played second fiddle to Mario Andretti when the Lotuses dominated in 1978.

I wouldn't say Ronnie Peterson was underrated. It was well-known and widely-accepted fact that Ronnie was a fabulous driver who could drive anything, but he couldn't develop or setup a car to save his life. Every team he drove for was unanimous in their praise for him and his results against his teammates were always good.

I would agree that is a fairly fair assessment of Peterson - even Peterson himself admitted that his tendency to drive around, rather than try to work through, problems was a problem when it came to developing a car.
There is, I believe, one story about Peterson and Chapman that does kind of sum things up. Chapman asked Peterson to test out the latest version of the 72 (I think it was when they transitioned from the D to E spec car) and, to start from a known baseline, they went for a set up that should have caused slight turn in understeer. Instead, after his first run in the car, much to Chapman's surprise Peterson came in and informed Chapman that he had turn in oversteer, which was the complete opposite of what he expected him to say.
After that, Chapman sent Ronnie out and went round to one particular corner to observe what he was doing, where he realised that Peterson, unconsciously, had detected that understeer and adjusted the way he turned into the corner so that it would intentionally unsettle the rear to provoke enough turn in oversteer to help turn the car into the corner. It demonstrates how adaptable Peterson was, but it also made it very difficult for Lotus to develop the car given that it became difficult to tell whether an issue that Peterson was reporting was really down to the car or down to subconscious chances in Peterson's driving style that provoked an unusual reaction from the car.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:32

CoopsII wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Michael Andretti was probably overrated when he made his debut with McLaren in 1993. Just saying.

Funnily enough nearly all the Indycar drivers that tried F1 appeared overrated. Andretti, Bourdais, Zanardi, and Da Matta all arrived with high hopes and high expectations only to drown in the sea of failure.

Ive ommitted Villeneuve because no matter what people think he will always be the 1997 F1 WDC and Montoya was a race-winning tubby ball of awesomeness.

Montoya was probably worse with his post F1 move to NASCAR.