Felipe Massa 2010-2013

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:20

Similar to the Williams topic earlier this is Felipe Massa's record since 2010

Wins 0
Podiums 8
Fastest Laps 2
Poles 0
Points 445
Best Championship Position: 6th x2

Is it the Injury Alonso or something else? You discuss

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:28

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Similar to the Williams topic earlier this is Felipe Massa's record since 2010

Wins 0
Podiums 8
Fastest Laps 2
Poles 0
Points 445
Best Championship Position: 6th x2

Is it the Injury Alonso or something else? You discuss

wsrgo brilliantly suggested that Massa has been badly affected by the loss of refuelling and on heavier loads he would struggle and be slower. In the refuelling era he could sprint on lower fuel loads and was really fast. He also might struggle on Pirelli tyres as well while on Bridgestones he found it easier to drive.
Until recently I though the spring in Hungary killed his speed but really given how he should have recovered by now wsrgo's theory is really plausible.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:35

One thing I have noticed is that since the first five races this year, which Felipe did fairly well at, especially in Spain, his performance has completely faltered. Now I'm sure the rest of you know this, but what may have caused this?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:42

go_Rubens wrote:One thing I have noticed is that since the first five races this year, which Felipe did fairly well at, especially in Spain, his performance has completely faltered. Now I'm sure the rest of you know this, but what may have caused this?

He then shunted in Canada and Britain and a technical problem put him out in Germany. I couldn't find anything wrong with his races in Canada and Britain; after all he suffered setbacks but I think his form has been poor also because of Ferrari's (inevitable?) recent performance slide. Many say that Felipe represents the true pace of the car.
By the way Spain might have been a fluke given how good the Ferrari was on its tyres in the race.

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:47

good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Similar to the Williams topic earlier this is Felipe Massa's record since 2010

Wins 0
Podiums 8
Fastest Laps 2
Poles 0
Points 445
Best Championship Position: 6th x2

Is it the Injury Alonso or something else? You discuss

wsrgo brilliantly suggested that Massa has been badly affected by the loss of refuelling and on heavier loads he would struggle and be slower. In the refuelling era he could sprint on lower fuel loads and was really fast. He also might struggle on Pirelli tyres as well while on Bridgestones he found it easier to drive.
Until recently I though the spring in Hungary killed his speed but really given how he should have recovered by now wsrgo's theory is really plausible.

I have to agree- Usually with this sort of change there is usually a few drivers who can't cope with it and Massa seems to be the fall guy. I think Ferrari should cut their losses

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:47

rachel1990 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Similar to the Williams topic earlier this is Felipe Massa's record since 2010

Wins 0
Podiums 8
Fastest Laps 2
Poles 0
Points 445
Best Championship Position: 6th x2

Is it the Injury Alonso or something else? You discuss

wsrgo brilliantly suggested that Massa has been badly affected by the loss of refuelling and on heavier loads he would struggle and be slower. In the refuelling era he could sprint on lower fuel loads and was really fast. He also might struggle on Pirelli tyres as well while on Bridgestones he found it easier to drive.
Until recently I though the spring in Hungary killed his speed but really given how he should have recovered by now wsrgo's theory is really plausible.

I have to agree- Usually with this sort of change there is usually a few drivers who can't cope with it and Massa seems to be the fall guy. I think Ferrari should cut their losses

What do you mean by that?

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:53

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Similar to the Williams topic earlier this is Felipe Massa's record since 2010

I have to agree- Usually with this sort of change there is usually a few drivers who can't cope with it and Massa seems to be the fall guy. I think Ferrari should cut their losses

What do you mean by that?

In the past technical changes have meant that some drivers were not able to adapt to the new regulations. Damon Hill is a perfect example of this in 1998/99 with the grooved tyres (apart from Belgium in the wet). Maybe Felipe wasn't able to adapt to the changes and thats why he has lost whatever pace he had.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 16:56

rachel1990 wrote:In the past technical changes have meant that some drivers were not able to adapt to the new regulations. Damon Hill is a perfect example of this in 1998/99 with the grooved tyres (apart from Belgium in the wet). Maybe Felipe wasn't able to adapt to the changes and thats why he has lost whatever pace he had.

Like Mark Webber in some sense. The Pirelli tires were one of many reasons why Mark was rinsed by Vettel in 2011 because he just couldn't gel with the Pirelli's and it looks like Massa hasn't been able to either from what you're saying

inoue3210 · Post by **inoue3210** » 28 Aug 2013, 17:59

R.I.P.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:00

inoue3210 wrote:R.I.P.

What in the flying hell?!

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:01

go_Rubens wrote:
inoue3210 wrote:R.I.P.

What in the flying hell?!

He's not dead. Does this mean what i think it means?

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:04

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
inoue3210 wrote:R.I.P.

What in the flying hell?!

He's not dead. Does this mean what i think it means?

Does what? What I said? I was confused, possibly overreacting.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:05

go_Rubens wrote:Does what? What I said? I was confused, possibly overreacting.

Is that a spambot-esque answer he gave there?

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:07

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:Does what? What I said? I was confused, possibly overreacting.

Is that a spambot-esque answer he gave there?

He discussed F1 stuff on here without being a spammer, so I think he is a good guy. He made 9 legit posts before, so go figure.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:09

go_Rubens wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:Does what? What I said? I was confused, possibly overreacting.

Is that a spambot-esque answer he gave there?

He discussed F1 stuff on here without being a spammer, so I think he is a good guy. He made 9 legit posts before, so go figure.

Ah right. Sorry inoue :oops:

I think you must have meant the pre-injury Massa as R.I.P

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:10

inoue3210 wrote:R.I.P.

LMFAO. It does at first glance appear to be commemorating the birth and death of someone, although my first thought was that his Ferrari career was finished (until I did the maths :lol:

)

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:11

I think R.I.P was for the refuelling era Massa, who won multiple races and was a championship contender. It seems as though that is no more.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:12

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Ah right. Sorry inoue I think you must have meant the pre-injury Massa as R.I.P

I don't know. I was slightly confused about the title until I read your opening post...

Seriously.

Post by **Ataxia** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:16

Good lord, I don't know of anything that's been taken more literally!

I know it's the internet and it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek stuff, but don't get so worked up. This whole thread is just ridiculous now...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:20

good_Ralf wrote:I think R.I.P was for the refuelling era Massa, who won multiple races and was a championship contender. It seems as though that is no more.

I agree and its as much of a disappointment as Webber to me. Both had their opportunities to beat the odds but it never quite happened. I guess thats why they're called 'chances'.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:23

Ataxia wrote:Good lord, I don't know of anything that's been taken more literally!

I know it's the internet and it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek stuff, but don't get so worked up. This whole thread is just ridiculous now...

I only created this thread to look at Felipe Massa's struggles since he returned in 2010 but it has snowballed into something a bit silly started by my assumption that inoue posted a spamming post (which wasn't true) Can we get back on topic now please? Thank you

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:23

CoopsII wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:I think R.I.P was for the refuelling era Massa, who won multiple races and was a championship contender. It seems as though that is no more.

I agree and its as much of a disappointment as Webber to me. Both had their opportunities to beat the odds but it never quite happened. I guess thats why they're called 'chances'.

A shame that the years they competed for the championship they completely deserved the title and they didn't win.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:39

Felipe Massa pre-spring:

826 led laps.

Post-spring:

56 led laps. :cry:

Post by **mario** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:47

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:In the past technical changes have meant that some drivers were not able to adapt to the new regulations. Damon Hill is a perfect example of this in 1998/99 with the grooved tyres (apart from Belgium in the wet). Maybe Felipe wasn't able to adapt to the changes and thats why he has lost whatever pace he had.

Like Mark Webber in some sense. The Pirelli tires were one of many reasons why Mark was rinsed by Vettel in 2011 because he just couldn't gel with the Pirelli's and it looks like Massa hasn't been able to either from what you're saying

There is an indication that the changes from the Bridgestone era tyres, where the cars tended to be front grip limited, to the current situation with Pirelli where the cars tend to be rear traction limited, has adversely affected Massa (whereas some other drivers, like Kimi, are probably more at ease with the current situation, as he seems to cope with a rear traction limited car more easily than front traction limited).

good_Ralf wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:One thing I have noticed is that since the first five races this year, which Felipe did fairly well at, especially in Spain, his performance has completely faltered. Now I'm sure the rest of you know this, but what may have caused this?

He then shunted in Canada and Britain and a technical problem put him out in Germany. I couldn't find anything wrong with his races in Canada and Britain; after all he suffered setbacks but I think his form has been poor also because of Ferrari's (inevitable?) recent performance slide. Many say that Felipe represents the true pace of the car.
By the way Spain might have been a fluke given how good the Ferrari was on its tyres in the race.

Barcelona is a track that probably would have also worked more to the strength of the F138 and to Massa given that it tends to be a front traction limited track - it is probably also why Massa's pace in the British GP, despite the fact that his tyre failure did cause some damage to the floor of the car, was pretty close to Alonso's pace too, since Silverstone also tends to be a front traction limited circuit too.

I'd agree, though, that Massa did have a couple of difficult weekends whilst the car was still reasonably competitive in Monaco - crashing in both the practise sessions and the race itself (the latter being ascribed to a fault with the car itself), the tyre blowout in Britain and an ill handling car in Germany would have damaged his confidence after that earlier run of good form.
It appears that his race in Belgium was also compromised by a couple of factors too - he had KERS problems in the opening laps, which seems to explain why he dropped back in the earlier stages. That forced the team to bring him in early for his first stop in an attempt to leapfrog those ahead of him, though it left him with a longer than desirable middle stint on the softer compound where he struggled for pace.

It is fair to say that Massa's recent dip in form does reflect a drop in the competitiveness of the F138 as a whole - we know that Ferrari are still struggling with aero development work and the lack of development of the F138 has also been reflected in Alonso's dip in form, even if, in his case, the drop in form hasn't been quite as severe. Yes, it is true that Massa hasn't quite had the edge that he had prior to his accident for a number of possible reasons, but it has to be said that Ferrari hasn't always given him the best tools to work with in recent years either.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Aug 2013, 18:48

Jocke1 wrote:Felipe Massa pre-spring:

826 led laps.

Post-spring:

56 led laps.

And 40 of those laps were at Hockenheim 2010, which really is the only race since his accident that Massa has come close to winning.
Otherwise he has only led at pit stops, although he did a good job in Italy 2012 and the early laps of China 2013 in my opinion.

inoue3210 · Post by **inoue3210** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:09

guys im not a spambot, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email??

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:14

inoue3210 wrote:guys im not a spambot, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email??

Even worse you're from Germany. The subject i got a Grade B in my Exam in. We apologise for thinking you were a spambot and all is forgiven right?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:18

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Even worse you're from Germany. The subject i got a Grade B in my Exam in.

I know I'm going off topic again but you did German at school?

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:20

good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Even worse you're from Germany. The subject i got a Grade B in my Exam in.

I know I'm going off topic again but you did German at school?

Yeah. I did French German and Spanish at High school (Spanish was optional and I dropped French after Year 9) I'm off to 6th Form because i passed English and Maths

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:22

inoue3210 wrote:guys, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email?

Dude, we can't see your e-mail address, dude.

inoue3210 · Post by **inoue3210** » 28 Aug 2013, 19:59

Jocke1 wrote:
inoue3210 wrote:guys, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email?

Dude, we can't see your e-mail address, dude.

sorry i misunderstod something about the email tecnique. send me something and ill send back so you can see my adress

Post by **kevinbotz** » 28 Aug 2013, 20:06

inoue3210 wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
inoue3210 wrote:guys, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email?

Dude, we can't see your e-mail address, dude.

sorry i misunderstod something about the email tecnique. send me something and ill send back so you can see my adress

It's alright...we don't need to confirm your email address. For future reference, by the way, it's probably not advisable to make your email address publicly available on the Internet.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 28 Aug 2013, 22:46

I think Massa highlights just how important having the proper mindset in F1 really is, as he sporadically matches and even beats Alonso, before what appears to be completely randomly just being nowhere, so he clearly has some talent, but just can't remain anything like consistent. On a side note, I would nominate his overtake in Singapore as the best of overtake of 2012.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 29 Aug 2013, 00:36

rachel1990 wrote:In the past technical changes have meant that some drivers were not able to adapt to the new regulations. Damon Hill is a perfect example of this in 1998/99 with the grooved tyres (apart from Belgium in the wet). Maybe Felipe wasn't able to adapt to the changes and thats why he has lost whatever pace he had.

Tom Sneva and Darrell Waltrip in IndyCar and NASCAR respectively seemed to had lost their edge when the respective series switched from bias-ply to radial tires in a similar fashion so it's not just in F1 where a regulation change could alter a driver's career. Neither Waltrip nor Sneva won again after the change to radial tires.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 Aug 2013, 08:11

inoue3210 wrote:guys im not a spambot, look at my email address! what kind of spambot would have that email??

Thats what all spambots say

Nort · Post by **Nort** » 29 Aug 2013, 17:59

Poor Felipe i do feel rather sorry for him....I do think though that its more Ferrari giving him no confidence at all due to the fact they favour Fernando...

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 29 Aug 2013, 19:32

Ataxia wrote:Good lord, I don't know of anything that's been taken more literally!

I know it's the internet and it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek stuff, but don't get so worked up. This whole thread is just ridiculous now...

Maybe we could have a Star Spangled Sarcasm banner for these guys?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Aug 2013, 19:36

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Good lord, I don't know of anything that's been taken more literally!

I know it's the internet and it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek stuff, but don't get so worked up. This whole thread is just ridiculous now...

Maybe we could have a Star Spangled Sarcasm banner for these guys?

This'll do for now.

watka · Post by **watka** » 01 Sep 2013, 23:26

SgtPepper wrote:On a side note, I would nominate his overtake in Singapore as the best of overtake of 2012.

Let's all remind ourselves of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7r2n2YmHA

It defies the laws of physics. Amazing pass.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 01 Sep 2013, 23:38

watka wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:On a side note, I would nominate his overtake in Singapore as the best of overtake of 2012.

Let's all remind ourselves of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua7r2n2YmHA

It defies the laws of physics. Amazing pass.

I found it strange when in the following minutes the stewards described it as an incident. I find it disappointing that this pass is hardly mentioned outside of YouTube.
My statement might be wrong as it usually is but I hardly see newspapers, even Benson on the BBC recalling it.
I don't think it was mentioned in the 2012 Season Review on the F1 Rejects website. Jamie and Enoch, shame on you! That was probably the most impressive moment of Massa's post-2008 career.