The Closed/Destroyed Tracks Thread

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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by RejectSteve »

matt1985 wrote:Catalunya:
What is with slowing down the final right-hand corner sequence leading onto the front straight? They slowed it right down and removed the close racing and pretty much all possibility of a car following another at great speed right down the front straight and possibly overtaking them into the first corner.

Somebody give this man a beer! It also took away the only decent corner on the circuit. Andrea Montermini might disagree, however, and Bertrand Godin who had a massive shunt there in F3000 qualifying back in 1998.
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Re: Lost Circuits

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matt1985 wrote:Catalunya:
What is with slowing down the final right-hand corner sequence leading onto the front straight? They slowed it right down and removed the close racing and pretty much all possibility of a car following another at great speed right down the front straight and possibly overtaking them into the first corner.

The idea was to slow the cars down coming onto the main straight. The problem with a lack of passing stems from the aerodynamics, particualrly in fast corners. A driver cannot get close to another car in high-speed bends because of the aero kit. It was thought that by slowing the cars down, the distance between them would be lessened ... but so far, we haven't seen anything to indicate that it has worked.

Aerodynamics is the problem, not the circuits.
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by Pieman »

watka wrote:On the advise of AutoSport, I've been watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5zdnGvT0c

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDAK4jBK ... re=related


That's awesome! :shock: Thanks for posting!
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by Phoenix »

Captain Hammer wrote:
matt1985 wrote:Catalunya:
What is with slowing down the final right-hand corner sequence leading onto the front straight? They slowed it right down and removed the close racing and pretty much all possibility of a car following another at great speed right down the front straight and possibly overtaking them into the first corner.

The idea was to slow the cars down coming onto the main straight. The problem with a lack of passing stems from the aerodynamics, particualrly in fast corners. A driver cannot get close to another car in high-speed bends because of the aero kit. It was thought that by slowing the cars down, the distance between them would be lessened ... but so far, we haven't seen anything to indicate that it has worked.

Aerodynamics is the problem, not the circuits.

Well, indeed the distance between cars has been lessened. But not that it means overtakes, sadly. We'd also need more raw overtakers. Drivers have to remember what they're doing.
After thinking a while I think any circuit could provide great races if cars's design favoured overtaking and drivers tried it a bit harder.
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by DonTirri »

Phoenix wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
matt1985 wrote:Catalunya:
What is with slowing down the final right-hand corner sequence leading onto the front straight? They slowed it right down and removed the close racing and pretty much all possibility of a car following another at great speed right down the front straight and possibly overtaking them into the first corner.

The idea was to slow the cars down coming onto the main straight. The problem with a lack of passing stems from the aerodynamics, particualrly in fast corners. A driver cannot get close to another car in high-speed bends because of the aero kit. It was thought that by slowing the cars down, the distance between them would be lessened ... but so far, we haven't seen anything to indicate that it has worked.

Aerodynamics is the problem, not the circuits.

Well, indeed the distance between cars has been lessened. But not that it means overtakes, sadly. We'd also need more raw overtakers. Drivers have to remember what they're doing.
After thinking a while I think any circuit could provide great races if cars's design favoured overtaking and drivers tried it a bit harder.


Well, with fuelstops banned next year, there oughta be a lot more overtaking. It might take a couple of progressional queue-up races until the drivers and teams realize you can no longer rely on pitstops for overtakes.
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by Phoenix »

DonTirri wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Well, indeed the distance between cars has been lessened. But not that it means overtakes, sadly. We'd also need more raw overtakers. Drivers have to remember what they're doing.
After thinking a while I think any circuit could provide great races if cars's design favoured overtaking and drivers tried it a bit harder.


Well, with fuelstops banned next year, there oughta be a lot more overtaking. It might take a couple of progressional queue-up races until the drivers and teams realize you can no longer rely on pitstops for overtakes.

It should work indeed. Some of the better races F1 has seen (most of it really) were when refuelling wasn't allowed or wasn't used as a strategic tool. Of course, this isn't the only factor, but we should see...
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by eagleash »

For anyone that is interested I have just found out that the Sprint event at Crystal Palace is to be revived this year, using (if the same as before) a good part of the old circuit. Previously there have been no barriers & you can wander about amongst the machinery in the paddock. It takes place over 2days on May Bank Hol weekend.
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Re: Lost Circuits

Post by Faustus »

eagleash wrote:Did anyone see the recent James May prog where he built a 3 mile scalextric circuit following the line of the old Brooklands track. Inc thru peoples gardens, office blocks & over a river? Interesting to see the banking as it is now & what has become of the developed areas.


That was a great program and a great series!
I went to Brooklands in 2005 and you could walk freely around the banking. Not sure how it works now with Mercedes owning the site.
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The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

I was looking up info about Nivells-Balders track not to long ago, and that got me thinking. What other (F1 or not) tracks are there in the world that no longer exist, or simply not being used. What do they look like now? Can they be still driven in it's configuration? If it does, what parts of the track still exist and what doesn't? I think that maybe this thread could be a good domain for this particular kind of topic.

Anyways, I mentioned Nivelles-Balders earlier. As some of you may already know, the track was closed in 1981. Despite being closed, it was still possible go inside the race course, and do illegal laps around the track. It was demolished sometime in the 1990s. It is now an industrial park with some of the streets used on the same layout of the original race course. There are even some parts of the track still there, but they have since decayed, and are partly covered with overgrown dirt piles. Here's an overhead picture of it below. (I don't really need to line it out since most of the layout still exists.)

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5288008
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by madmark1974 »

Quick post as I'm just about to go out the door, but this site has quite a few listed :

http://www.circuitsofthepast.nl/English.html
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

madmark1974 wrote:Quick post as I'm just about to go out the door, but this site has quite a few listed :

http://www.circuitsofthepast.nl/English.html


Thanks. Some of the tracks on that site are still being used though. But that will help a little bit.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by AndreaModa »

Perhaps the most recent one is the 'reclamation' that's been underway on the old Hockenheim circuit following the 2002 rebuild. The image on Wikipedia shows it almost completely replaced by grass, and low vegetation.

Another is the Brooklands circuit in southern England, most of which is now covered by housing estates and a business park, as shown on the episode of James May's Toy Stories where they assembled a Scalextric track on the line of the old layout.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

I know that Jacarepagua is scheduled for demolition soon to make way for an olymipic training center. The oval has already been partially demolished for another sports complex in 2007. As you can see in the picture below.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q ... 4&t=k&om=1
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Londoner »

I had a book out from the library a couple of weeks ago about some of the lost race circuits of Europe. Pretty damn good book. Apparently, there was a race track in Finland by the name of Keimola, and it's just been left to rot since the late 70s, apart from some illegal races conducted in the 1980s. I wonder if any of the Finnish members of the forum could shed anymore light on this?
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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Bremgarten is a racetrack I can think of that is no longer being used, thanks to legislation drawn up in Switzerland in 1955.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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That site is a great find!
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Barbazza »

AndreaModa wrote:Another is the Brooklands circuit in southern England, most of which is now covered by housing estates and a business park, as shown on the episode of James May's Toy Stories where they assembled a Scalextric track on the line of the old layout.


My best mate lives 2 minutes walk from what's left of the track (on the outside of the banked curve)
Whenever I go to visit him and have to pop to Tesco or M&S (inside the old curve) a little part of me always feels sad inside.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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East Londoner wrote:I had a book out from the library a couple of weeks ago about some of the lost race circuits of Europe. Pretty damn good book. Apparently, there was a race track in Finland by the name of Keimola, and it's just been left to rot since the late 70s, apart from some illegal races conducted in the 1980s. I wonder if any of the Finnish members of the forum could shed anymore light on this?


Yes, I looked up that track a couple of weeks ago when I was downloading the GPL F2 Mod. According to the track's wikipedia page, it was closed in 1978 due to financial difficulties. The track remained in good shape up until the late 1980s. During that time, there were many illegal races there dubed "moonlight races". It abruptly ended after someone was injured after hitting a moose. Deep ditches were dug in certain locations of the track in 1988. This did not deter the racers after they quickly filled up the dug holes. Eventually, the owner of the land apparently got fed up with people racing there, and ploughed up the the tarmac. Ending the illegal races for good. Still after 35 years of closer, some structures still stand. A residential area is planed to be built there soon, with some street planned to be run on some of the original track routes. The control tower will also be preserved as well. Such a fasinating story indeed. Here's the track's wikipedia profile, and sky picture below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keimola_Motor_Stadium

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=60.31951 ... ,24.831033
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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Imola. Yes, I know it's only been away from Formula 1 for a few years and is probably still being used for Sportscar, GT, endurance races etc. But it was nice to see how clean and fresh it looked on Top Gear the other week. While tracks been resurfaced and the kerbs and run-off points have been given a refurb. I'd love to see it back on the calendar.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

plenty of dead, gouged, demolished, disused, etc. racetracks here in the states as well.
because NASCAR is so popular here, our country, namely the eastern coast, is riddled with closed and disused, or even gone all together, Oval tracks.
Here's one near where i live. Beltsville Speedway http://www.thevintageracer.com/tracks/beltsville.htm (Beltsville, Maryland) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=capitol%2 ... a=N&tab=il
now the site of a low budget college campus.
another near my residence, Marlboro Speedway (Upper Marlboro, Maryland) Image(present)Image(1965) This used to be one of the old Gems on the famed Trans-Am schedule back in the 60's.
aaannd some CART fans might know this next one, Nazareth Speedway (Nazareth, Pennsylvania. Mario Andretti's Hometown) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth_Speedway
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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^ Don't forget Riverside International Raceway. Used in the 1960 U.S. Grand Prix, was a popular track for Can-Am, and NASCAR. Then they demolished it in 1989 for a shopping mall that no one uses, and for a residential area that has since drastically gone downhill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside_ ... al_Raceway

Ontario Motor Speedway also suffered a similar fate. Built in 1970, was state of the art at the time, hosted some NASCAR, Indy Car races, and held a Formula Libre race that attracted big names like Mario Andretti, and Jackie Stewart. Also held some very successful concerts as well. (Deep Purple had a very famous concert there.) Then in 1980, just barely a decade old, the track was bought up by Chevron, and demolished. All for it's real estate value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Motor_Speedway

A real shame for both tracks in my opinion. :(
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

ah, yes. "The Indianapolis of the West". NASCAR has been racin' rectangles well before '94 when they started using IMS.
The USAC races there posted almost exactly the same lap times as IMS back in the late 70's, probably because both track were exactly the same length of 2.5 miles. Here's some footage from all the mentioned american tracks (except Beltsville).

Nazareth, known as the World's fastest 1 mile oval. just listen to the throttle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=konlZXzc8Ig

Riverside, NASCAR's 1986 Western 500
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ukPLX7iIw

Ontario, NASCAR 1971 Ontario 500
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBiO32hQffY

Marlboro, 1966
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h9OLNQDxwk

and some different tracks. first, Langhorne Speedway. Pennsylvania's forgotten Circle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy_l4KDUJIA

next, Trenton Motor Speedway. New Jersey's Eggplant-shaped oval. notice Turn 2 is a part of the backstretch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVyprNHH_PY
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Vepe »

East Londoner wrote:I had a book out from the library a couple of weeks ago about some of the lost race circuits of Europe. Pretty damn good book. Apparently, there was a race track in Finland by the name of Keimola, and it's just been left to rot since the late 70s, apart from some illegal races conducted in the 1980s. I wonder if any of the Finnish members of the forum could shed anymore light on this?


I happen to live right next to Keimola, and like DOSBoot said only the watchtower is standing. Most of the other structures, like all stands, entrance to the track, guardrails etc. were demolished in 1998 I believe.

Here´s some brief history of Keimola... if you´re too lazy to go to wikipedia...

Founded by Jochen Rindts father-in-law, Curt Lincoln, it was Finlands first permanent racing circuit, built in 1966 to host races after 'Eltsu' was deemed too dangerous.

It was said to be a great track, some even compared it to Monza. Being only 3.3 km (or 2.1 miles for you americans), it never hosted F1 races, but F2 races were hosted there, and so drivers like Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Jack Brabham, Jochen Rindt and Denny Hulme drove there also. It was a part of Interserie between 1970-1972. It also had a rallycross track and hosted drag races. Tracks financial situation went down during the 70s and it was eventually closed in 1978.

One of the tracks problems was that after the events, there was huge traffic jams, because the Helsinki-Hämeenlinna road was only two-laned, even though a new road was promised to be built to make the access in/out of the track easier. They were only 10-years too late...

Illegal races were indeed held during the 80s, finally ending in 88. In some better world for motorsport, those races wouldn´t have been illegal, because after the tracks closure, some enthusiasts asked for permission to use the track, but since it was denied, they broke the locks.

Afterwards, the tracks pit area was used as a tire yard, but it burned in 2004. They´re going to build a new residential area there, called Keimolanmäki, and the roads are going to follow the track layout and the watchtower is going to get restored.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Londoner »

Another track that is completely dead is the AVUS in Germany. As it was basically a high speed blast up and down an autobahn with 'return loops', virtually nothing remains of the track, apart from the Mercedes control tower, some rusty armco and one of the grandstands. Bundesautobahn 115 occupies the area now.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

East Londoner wrote:Another track that is completely dead is the AVUS in Germany. As it was basically a high speed blast up and down an autobahn with 'return loops', virtually nothing remains of the track, apart from the Mercedes control tower, some rusty armco and one of the grandstands. Bundesautobahn 115 occupies the area now.

this bit is kind of still there.
Image
it's that round-a-bout where they cut the track in half when Berlin was split.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by AdrianSutil »

I'm guessing, thanks to the direction of traffic, that's 'turn 2'. Which was the larger of the two hairpins.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Londoner »

AdrianSutil wrote:I'm guessing, thanks to the direction of traffic, that's 'turn 2'. Which was the larger of the two hairpins.

I think that was the second incarnation of the South turn, used after the war to shorten the track.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

Vepe wrote:
East Londoner wrote:I had a book out from the library a couple of weeks ago about some of the lost race circuits of Europe. Pretty damn good book. Apparently, there was a race track in Finland by the name of Keimola, and it's just been left to rot since the late 70s, apart from some illegal races conducted in the 1980s. I wonder if any of the Finnish members of the forum could shed anymore light on this?


I happen to live right next to Keimola, and like DOSBoot said only the watchtower is standing. Most of the other structures, like all stands, entrance to the track, guardrails etc. were demolished in 1998 I believe.


It also states in the wikipedia page, that there is a camera tower still standing on turn 7 as well. (Probably will be scrapped once they start building houses there.)
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

Better footage of Marlboro. as you see here, the track had a jump on the front straight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XkBPOUWM5k
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

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nome66 wrote:Better footage of Marlboro. as you see here, the track had a jump on the front straight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XkBPOUWM5k


That's cool! Of course there is no way you would see that nowadays on a race track. But still, I think a restoration would be great for the track.

Here's a lap of Riverside below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zakPard0iKI
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

here's a fun one. Before the Mickey Mouse, with a big fat capital M, Caesar's Palace F1 "track" in 1981-1982, there was Stardust Raceway.
Stardust Raceway was a promotional venture by the Stardust Hotel and Casino. closed in '69 if i recall correctly.
here's some footage of the martyred Can-Am series running this track in 1966.
Note the white Chapparal with that tall wing.....watch closely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsNPg6gGkJA






.......that car was banned and so was the mechanism!
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Nuppiz »

Vepe wrote:They´re going to build a new residential area there, called Keimolanmäki, and the roads are going to follow the track layout and the watchtower is going to get restored.

So they're finally going to build that? IIRC a residential area has been planned there since the mid-80s, one of the main reasons why no-one has seriously bothered to resurrect the track.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by Vepe »

Nuppiz wrote:
Vepe wrote:They´re going to build a new residential area there, called Keimolanmäki, and the roads are going to follow the track layout and the watchtower is going to get restored.

So they're finally going to build that? IIRC a residential area has been planned there since the mid-80s, one of the main reasons why no-one has seriously bothered to resurrect the track.


Yeah, it´s part of the Marja-Vantaa project... Or something like that...

DOSBoot wrote:It also states in the wikipedia page, that there is a camera tower still standing on turn 7 as well. (Probably will scrapped once they start building houses there.)


I´m not sure about that... It might be there, but I haven´t seen it.
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

Vepe wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:It also states in the wikipedia page, that there is a camera tower still standing on turn 7 as well. (Probably will scrapped once they start building houses there.)


I´m not sure about that... It might be there, but I haven´t seen it.


Here's a picture of it.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3417025? ... google.com
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Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by DOSBoot »

Here's the best footage of Ontario Motor Speedway that I could find. A little long, but gives us several nice overviews of the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usqNQmR8SVU
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midgrid
Posts: 705
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 19:27
Location: UK

Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by midgrid »

East Londoner wrote:Another track that is completely dead is the AVUS in Germany. As it was basically a high speed blast up and down an autobahn with 'return loops', virtually nothing remains of the track, apart from the Mercedes control tower, some rusty armco and one of the grandstands. Bundesautobahn 115 occupies the area now.


I remember being driven from Potsdam to Berlin a few years ago and stumbling upon the remnants of AVUS. Nearly as good as when I realised I was driving the wrong way down the Mulsanne straight. :lol:
"One day Bruno told me that he had heard the engine momentarily making a strange sound; his suspicion was that all the cylinders had been operating."
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nome66
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Joined: 18 Dec 2010, 22:42
Location: Central Marlyland, USA

Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

I know Laguna Seca is not dead or even close to being so, but it used to be much shorter.
here's some old footage of the original turns 1, 2, 3, and 4. Also, the final corner used to be almost that of a street circuit!

IMSA GTP 1985
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cKZfgZiMj4

Can-Am 1979 (some F1 greats!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOuB60RAO0
I believe in German BARawnda-Tyrrell-Simca(and it's working)

the only difference between the roman gladiators and racing drivers is that racing drivers sit inside the lion that is trying to kill them.
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nome66
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Joined: 18 Dec 2010, 22:42
Location: Central Marlyland, USA

Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

found this image on google earth!
Image
taken in 1945.

oh and also one more dead track, Der Sudschleife.
Image
I believe in German BARawnda-Tyrrell-Simca(and it's working)

the only difference between the roman gladiators and racing drivers is that racing drivers sit inside the lion that is trying to kill them.
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nome66
Posts: 1580
Joined: 18 Dec 2010, 22:42
Location: Central Marlyland, USA

Re: The Dead Track Thread

Post by nome66 »

Here's a really good aerial shot of Riverside International Raceway.
Image
I believe in German BARawnda-Tyrrell-Simca(and it's working)

the only difference between the roman gladiators and racing drivers is that racing drivers sit inside the lion that is trying to kill them.
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