Grand Prix Rejects

It's about time we got this year's thread underway, and Controversial Jacques is sticking his neck on the line once again.

Raikkonen should just go home, says Jacques. I'd agree with this, but it's a bit rich coming from someone like him, who basically gave up after 2000.

Jacques begins the latest Red Bull conspiracy theory. Discuss.

I actually have some nagging suspicion that Vettel will be racing for Mercedes in the near future, creating a German dreamteam with Rosberg. Let's not forget how wily they were with signing Lewis last year, and if he keeps throwing his toys out of the pram Mercedes might decide he's too much of a liability.

Of course, this is just my gut speaking, and its forecasting skills haven't been brilliant in the past!

AustralianStig wrote:Let's not forget how wily they were with signing Lewis last year, and if he keeps throwing his toys out of the pram Mercedes might decide he's too much of a liability.

I think they're a long way from dumping Hamilton, and don't forget Mercedes are 1-2 in the championship so from their point of view they're probably happy with the way things are. I don't think Vettel has anywhere better to go at the moment either. I have no idea how his mind works but if I were him I'd be shellshocked by how Ricciardo is out-performing me and I certainly wouldn't move to a new team where I may end up even more exposed. At least currently RBR are fully supportive of their Champion. The catalyst for change this season may be Jenson Button either of his own volition or not but, again, the McLaren seat isn't as hot as it was and who knows how long it will take Honda to bolt together a decent unit. Forget the Senna glory days, the last time Honda was in F1 they were average, not spectaculary successful.

I can't see Mercedes ditching Hamilton yet, not after the amount they paid for him. I doubt there will be any movement at Mercedes.

The most likely seat to come up is Kimi's, and possibly even Alonso's at Ferrari if he also decides he's had enough. I'd say Vettel would be the prime person to take one.

I'm also wondering if Button might decide to call it a day after this year, but I suspect he will stay for 2015.

Perez, Bottas, Hulkenberg and Bianchi will all be vying for top seats although if Force India keep up this form I can see one or both of their drivers staying - both seem very at home there. They would have to ask themselves whether a move to Ferrari or McLaren would really be a step up right now.

Why is no-one throwing RoGro into the mix? He should be a candidate for a McLaren/Ferrari seat, if not something even better.

good_Ralf wrote:Why is no-one throwing RoGro into the mix? He should be a candidate for a McLaren/Ferrari seat, if not something even better.

Actually yes, especially with Boullier at McLaren. One would have to wonder if he would gently start nudging Button out of the way - Magnussen and Grosjean would be a very strong line up.

LellaLombardi wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:Why is no-one throwing RoGro into the mix? He should be a candidate for a McLaren/Ferrari seat, if not something even better.

Actually yes, especially with Boullier at McLaren. One would have to wonder if he would gently start nudging Button out of the way - Magnussen and Grosjean would be a very strong line up.

But Button has links with Honda from their recent stint, is popular in Japan due to his girlfriend (is she not his fiancee yet?) and has been at McLaren a few years now. I think he'll stay if he chooses to...

good_Ralf wrote:Why is no-one throwing RoGro into the mix? He should be a candidate for a McLaren/Ferrari seat, if not something even better.

He should be definitely considered for Ferrari, and given Raikkonen's struggles there is a great number of people who will be inevitably linked to the role as well. I wonder if Hulkenberg and Perez can be persuaded to move to Ferrari? It's certainly a tempting offer...

My only concern is that Ferrari's development of the car isn't really the best - Ferrari right now are a team that is solidly in the midfield, and they can also contend for podiums on the odd day. The trouble is, there isn't any evidence to suggest that there will be a breakthrough from the team to consistently battle for wins at the moment.

Aerospeed wrote:Ferrari right now are a team that is solidly in the midfield

They're 3rd in the WCC. If Kimi could be bothered to give two shites, they'd be 2nd, or, at least, very close to Red Bull. They might not be world-beaters, or close to it, but if Ferrari offered Grosjean Kimi's seat, you can bet your house he'd jump at the chance.

Here's who has a contract for 2015 (not that contracts mean anything):
Mercedes-Rosberg and Hamilton
Red Bull-Ricciardo and Vettel
Ferrari-Alonso and Raikkonen
Force India-Perez and Hulkenberg
Williams-Massa and Bottas
So the top five have both drivers under contract and nobody else has any driver contracts. STR and Marussia don't have an power unit contract, and McLaren are going to Honda power.

LellaLombardi wrote:I can't see Mercedes ditching Hamilton yet, not after the amount they paid for him. I doubt there will be any movement at Mercedes.

The most likely seat to come up is Kimi's, and possibly even Alonso's at Ferrari if he also decides he's had enough. I'd say Vettel would be the prime person to take one.

I'm also wondering if Button might decide to call it a day after this year, but I suspect he will stay for 2015.

Perez, Bottas, Hulkenberg and Bianchi will all be vying for top seats although if Force India keep up this form I can see one or both of their drivers staying - both seem very at home there. They would have to ask themselves whether a move to Ferrari or McLaren would really be a step up right now.

Furthermore, Hamilton still has strong support from Lauda and seems to have built up a reasonably strong rapport with his side of the garage - he may have shown signs of stress, but I think that relations between him and the team are still fairly healthy. On the other side of the garage, well, it's very unlikely that Rosberg will be moving anywhere either, so vacancies are unlikely to open up there for some time.

As for Ferrari, I agree with the sentiment that it is certainly feasible that at least one seat comes up for 2015 - Kimi's current problems will not be endearing him to the team, whilst Alonso's recent comments suggests that his patience with Ferrari's lack of success is beginning to wear very thin. There are a few rumours suggesting that Honda have been pushing McLaren to sign Alonso too, although that could well just be idle speculation.

Speaking of McLaren, Button has indicated that he would prefer to stay there for 2015 if he could. He does have a few advantages, both in terms of experience and through his links with Honda (which, given his popularity in Japan, will be of strong commercial interest) - a Button-Alonso line up would probably also work fairly well (Ferrari seem to have considered replacing Massa with Button a few years ago, but Button was not interested in moving from McLaren).

As for the drivers in the midfield who might want to move up a tier, we know that Hulkenberg was considered as an option by Ferrari until Kimi became available - he seems to have also tried his luck with McLaren, but McLaren seem to have dismissed his offer of talks out of hand. Hulkenberg would probably be targeted by Ferrari if they did lose one or both drivers, but at this point it is perhaps questionable if Hulkenberg would accept given that Force India are currently on course for one of their best seasons for years and also have corporate ties with Mercedes, which might give him further options for the future.

As for Vettel? I think that Villeneuve is reading far too much into his current struggles and the comments by Marko. Realistically, I do not think that Red Bull would have turned on their star driver so quickly - furthermore, even with his current problems Vettel is still fairly high up in the WDC and still driving a car that looks much more competitive than anything Ferrari have turned out for years. why would he throw that away? It'd be out of character for him to do that.

good_ralf wrote:Why is no-one throwing RoGro into the mix? He should be a candidate for a McLaren/Ferrari seat, if not something even better.

I think he's in with a good shout at something but I'm not sure what...

I think Button will retire at the end of this year leading to a Magnussen/Vandoorne partnership in 2015. Alonso has a Ferrari contract until 2016, but Raikknen is out of contract in 2015. Kimi retires at the end of 2015, whilst Alonso goes to McLaren alongside whoever is better out of Kevin and Stoffel, if the 2014 Honda engines are any good. Ferrari take Bianchi after 2015 as SFI are now where 1998-2000 Jordan were and Hulk is challenging for wins. Hulk by this point has got ahead of Perez, who signs for Ferrari alongside Bianchi. At Red Bull I think it will stay the same, with Vettel out of contract at the end of 2015 (I think), and Kvyat moves upstairs to partner Ricciardo. At STR Vergne get the boot at the end of this year, with Da Costa/Lynn/Sainz Jr (most likely Da Costa) replacing him and one of the two that don't get picked for 2015 (most likely Lynn) gets the gig in 2016. Mercedes stay unchanged, as do Williams, while RoGro replaces Perez at FI when Checo leaves. Down Sauber way Sutil gets the boot as Guttierez's pesos talk louder than talent. Di Silvestro and her amazing sponsorship opportunities sign. Grosjean has got out of the sinking ship at Lotus, allowing Valsechi and Maldonado to drive into rejectland, while Marussia keep Max Talent and Speedy Gonzalez and Caterham keep Ericson and sign Rio Haryanto

mrfakeboullier wrote:I think Button will retire at the end of this year leading to a Magnussen/Vandoorne partnership in 2015.

I'm gonna stop you right there - have you seen Vandoorne's GP2 record this year? It's not exactly flattering...

Salamander wrote:

Aerospeed wrote:Ferrari right now are a team that is solidly in the midfield

They're 3rd in the WCC. If Kimi could be bothered to give two shites, they'd be 2nd, or, at least, very close to Red Bull. They might not be world-beaters, or close to it, but if Ferrari offered Grosjean Kimi's seat, you can bet your house he'd jump at the chance.

At the end of the season? Absolutely.

But right now? Not a chance. He'll have learned his lesson. He joined F1 as a mid-season replacement and it almost killed his career before it had begun. You can't swap teams mid-season and do well. I think I said it in another thread, that not a single mid-season replacement has actually worked since Vettel for Speed in '07. And there you have a huge contrast between levels of talent. Kimi for Grosjean is less so. It won't make any difference, and it'll make Romain look bad.

Biscione wrote:

Salamander wrote:

Aerospeed wrote:Ferrari right now are a team that is solidly in the midfield

They're 3rd in the WCC. If Kimi could be bothered to give two shites, they'd be 2nd, or, at least, very close to Red Bull. They might not be world-beaters, or close to it, but if Ferrari offered Grosjean Kimi's seat, you can bet your house he'd jump at the chance.

At the end of the season? Absolutely.

But right now? Not a chance. He'll have learned his lesson. He joined F1 as a mid-season replacement and it almost killed his career before it had begun. You can't swap teams mid-season and do well. I think I said it in another thread, that not a single mid-season replacement has actually worked since Vettel for Speed in '07. And there you have a huge contrast between levels of talent. Kimi for Grosjean is less so. It won't make any difference, and it'll make Romain look bad.

I never said he should be a mid-season replacement.

mrfakeboullier wrote:I think Button will retire at the end of this year leading to a Magnussen/Vandoorne partnership in 2015. Alonso has a Ferrari contract until 2016, but Raikknen is out of contract in 2015. Kimi retires at the end of 2015, whilst Alonso goes to McLaren alongside whoever is better out of Kevin and Stoffel, if the 2014 Honda engines are any good. Ferrari take Bianchi after 2015 as SFI are now where 1998-2000 Jordan were and Hulk is challenging for wins. Hulk by this point has got ahead of Perez, who signs for Ferrari alongside Bianchi. At Red Bull I think it will stay the same, with Vettel out of contract at the end of 2015 (I think), and Kvyat moves upstairs to partner Ricciardo. At STR Vergne get the boot at the end of this year, with Da Costa/Lynn/Sainz Jr (most likely Da Costa) replacing him and one of the two that don't get picked for 2015 (most likely Lynn) gets the gig in 2016. Mercedes stay unchanged, as do Williams, while RoGro replaces Perez at FI when Checo leaves. Down Sauber way Sutil gets the boot as Guttierez's pesos talk louder than talent. Di Silvestro and her amazing sponsorship opportunities sign. Grosjean has got out of the sinking ship at Lotus, allowing Valsechi and Maldonado to drive into rejectland, while Marussia keep Max Talent and Speedy Gonzalez and Caterham keep Ericson and sign Rio Haryanto

For a start, I might be mistaken but hasn't da Costa been kicked out of Red Bulls' Young Driver program? He's not listed on their website, and it seems that there are signs that they were disappointed with his performance in the Young Driver test he had with them in 2013. That would only really leave them with Sainz Jr. as a potential candidate.

Salamander wrote:

Biscione wrote:

Salamander wrote:They're 3rd in the WCC. If Kimi could be bothered to give two shites, they'd be 2nd, or, at least, very close to Red Bull. They might not be world-beaters, or close to it, but if Ferrari offered Grosjean Kimi's seat, you can bet your house he'd jump at the chance.

At the end of the season? Absolutely.

But right now? Not a chance. He'll have learned his lesson. He joined F1 as a mid-season replacement and it almost killed his career before it had begun. You can't swap teams mid-season and do well. I think I said it in another thread, that not a single mid-season replacement has actually worked since Vettel for Speed in '07. And there you have a huge contrast between levels of talent. Kimi for Grosjean is less so. It won't make any difference, and it'll make Romain look bad.

I never said he should be a mid-season replacement.

You didn't specify anything at all. Leaves it totally open to interpritation.

andrew wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/jenson-button/10921822/Jenson-Button-heads-into-British-Grand-Prix-with-uncertain-future-as-McLaren-eye-Alonso-switch.html

Well, Alonso is starting to get bored again, but I don't think he will make a risk move going to Mclaren. It's uncertain if the Honda engines can top Mercedes engines or even Ferrari engines. Magnussen could be a problem for Alonso, who had problems with young team mates in the past (Hamilton) and Mclaren is underperforming more than Ferrari now. Also, In the past, if I remember well, Alonso refused a millionaire offer from Toyota (Mclaren is in a similar car performance situation).

I think its more probably to see Grosjean or even Button staying for another year with the team.

mrfakeboullier wrote:At STR Vergne get the boot at the end of this year, with Da Costa/Lynn/Sainz Jr (most likely Da Costa) replacing him and one of the two that don't get picked for 2015 (most likely Lynn) gets the gig in 2016.

Da Costa is out of RB's YDP. Gasly is in there, but for 2015, little Sainz is the most possible to step up in my opinion.

Raikkonen is almost destined to be out after 2015 and one has to wonder who will replace him since Bianchi can move up there but after years of Marussia it's still a bold choice no matter of the antics he's pulling there.

Vergne could be on his way out after 2014 but the rash of mechanical issues might save his career for a year though I don't see anyone snapping him up either after 2014 or 2015. The Red Bull label kinda prevents anyone else from throwing the lifeline. You either move up to the big team or end up on the hook and Vergne might suffer from that like Speed, Alguersuari and Buemi all did.

It of course remains to be seen who Haas picks up for one of it's seats since he said one driver would be a veteran F1 material and I don't think nationality will matter especially if Haas forms a partnership with someone like McLaren or Lotus.

Sainz will get the Toro Rosso drive probably, he has clearly stepped up a level in FR3.5. I never used to rate him and still do have my doubts about him, but realistically Vernge has had his chance and hasn't made anything notable out of it since mid 2013.

And Vettel to Ferrari will never happen. End of story, move on.

AFdC has indeed left the Red Bull Young Drivers' program, but that doesn't mean he's left Red Bull...



--

For McLaren driver predictions you have to remember Ron's always loved a protege, and Kevin's not been exactly much worse than an aging Jenson this season. Wouldn't expect McLaren to get rid of him no matter what.

mario wrote:

mrfakeboullier wrote:I think Button will retire at the end of this year leading to a Magnussen/Vandoorne partnership in 2015. Alonso has a Ferrari contract until 2016, but Raikknen is out of contract in 2015. Kimi retires at the end of 2015, whilst Alonso goes to McLaren alongside whoever is better out of Kevin and Stoffel, if the 2014 Honda engines are any good. Ferrari take Bianchi after 2015 as SFI are now where 1998-2000 Jordan were and Hulk is challenging for wins. Hulk by this point has got ahead of Perez, who signs for Ferrari alongside Bianchi. At Red Bull I think it will stay the same, with Vettel out of contract at the end of 2015 (I think), and Kvyat moves upstairs to partner Ricciardo. At STR Vergne get the boot at the end of this year, with Da Costa/Lynn/Sainz Jr (most likely Da Costa) replacing him and one of the two that don't get picked for 2015 (most likely Lynn) gets the gig in 2016. Mercedes stay unchanged, as do Williams, while RoGro replaces Perez at FI when Checo leaves. Down Sauber way Sutil gets the boot as Guttierez's pesos talk louder than talent. Di Silvestro and her amazing sponsorship opportunities sign. Grosjean has got out of the sinking ship at Lotus, allowing Valsechi and Maldonado to drive into rejectland, while Marussia keep Max Talent and Speedy Gonzalez and Caterham keep Ericson and sign Rio Haryanto

For a start, I might be mistaken but hasn't da Costa been kicked out of Red Bulls' Young Driver program? He's not listed on their website, and it seems that there are signs that they were disappointed with his performance in the Young Driver test he had with them in 2013. That would only really leave them with Sainz Jr. as a potential candidate.

Oops, my bad

The FIA clearly don't want to listen to us

I've lived and breathed F1 for all but 3 years of my life and it really is starting to weaken with the countless and artificial changes the FIA make. The FIA needs a complete shake up if F1's future is going to improve. I can only wonder what Ari Vatanen would have done had he been in charge.

I would go on a rage, but I don't feel like it, when this perfectly describes the absolute travesty the FIA.

Is it just me, or am I not the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that the FIA are aiming their heads at the ROTY target?

Setting parc ferme at the start of FP3 rather than the start of Q1 seems stupid. What would be the point of going out in FP3 now? Risk of crash requiring pit-lane start, no reason to go out because any improvements can't be implemented.


My response to the standing restarts announcement can be constructed from these words: Stupid, a, idea, what, bathplug.

I can only laugh at that.

It's bathplug ridicolous.

The number of "very"s I'd need to describe all the stupidity FIA has done over the past few years would involve up-arrow notation.

Autosport has the story as well.

Only one statement will come out of my mind and mouth at this time.

FIA, since you don't understand, and because of you guys being a bunch of dumbasses, may you please bathplug the hell off to the great endearment of all of us fans who want to see less gimmicks and sporting values valued more than bathplugging casual fans?

go_Rubens wrote:Autosport has the story as well.

Only one statement will come out of my mind and mouth at this time.

FIA, since you don't understand, and because of you guys being a bunch of dumbasses, may you please bathplug the hell off to the great endearment of all of us fans who want to see less gimmicks and sporting values valued more than bathplugging casual fans?

I want to see actual racing, you know, the kind of thing where 2 or more cars are in close proximity trying to overtake each other. I don't think the FIA know what that is.

Please, someone just tell me that this is a really bad attempt at a joke by the FIA. Because if not....

Salamander wrote:Please, someone just tell me that this is a really bad attempt at a joke by the FIA. Because if not....

They haven't thought anything through, have they? Self reflection/criticism is needed for doing that and unfortunately many 'leaders' (both in politics as in business) these days have a distinct lack of this attribute.

The FP3 parc ferme rule is just stupid. The only positive in my opinion is that (if the drivers bother to go out!) we might get a good sense of what the grid will look like.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing the death of F1.

As for the guys in charge, this confirms that money can't buy you everything. Brains are what this lot is missing.

My 2 pence in terms of drivers..

JB goes to merc in a straight swap with HAM cos he's thrown a hissy fit that he didn't win a championship..

good_Ralf wrote:The FP3 parc ferme rule is just stupid. The only positive in my opinion is that (if the drivers bother to go out!) we might get a good sense of what the grid will look like.

I can kind of see some logic in it, in as much that generally the set up most drivers use in FP3 is the one they would use for qualifying anyway (because the gap between the end of FP3 and the start of qualifying is normally relatively short, which usually means only minor changes can be made).

The other thing is, I suspect that the final wording of the regulations would address the situation where you have variable weather conditions between sessions. It's worth noting that the regulations already say that, if there is a change in conditions between qualifying and the race, Parc Ferme are relaxed to allow some changes to the set up to be made. I imagine that the FIA could simply extend the same regulation slightly to cover that scenario.

Still, I do agree with the question of why the change is being made - it doesn't really seem to have much of a point. I presume that it is meant to be a cost cutting measure, but it doesn't really seem to offer that much of a saving (the mechanics who would have worked on the car on Saturday will still have to be there for Friday).

It's easy in the heat of the moment to say 'sod F1, I'm not watching anymore' and sometimes that's born of anger and frustration when it feels like the powers-that-be are ignoring you, have no interest in you or your opinion.

So I don't want to be accused of a knee-jerk reaction but in all honesty I can see me becoming a casual viewer of F1 next season, if not this. Watching F1 used to be vital to my existence, during a race weekend mine and my family life was geared around it. What we did and where we went was always on an F1 schedule. But these days I feel a transition away from all that wouldnt be much of a wrench being as the sport that F1 is and is developing into bears little resemblance to the sport I used to know.

But hey, at least the ant-eater noses are going. Remember when we thought that was as low as F1 could go? Happy days....

There is another interesting rumour swilling around right now, which is the suggestion that Renault is preparing to cut its ties with F1 entirely and is attempting to sell off the Renault F1 division and the associated facilities at Viry-Chatillion to the highest bidder. One suggested reason for Renault axing their facilities would seem to be the high cost of development coupled to a declining customer base (Adam Cooper has suggested that Lotus are cutting their ties with Renault and will be switching to Mercedes engines for 2015, given that Mercedes will have spare capacity in 2015 due to the termination of their deal with McLaren.

It's already leading to some suggestions that Red Bull might be seeking to purchase Renault's facilities and workforce and turn it into their own in house engine development outfit (with Newey being tasked with integrating the newly purchased engine division into the company as a whole) - a touch extravagant, I must admit. http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/06/25/red- ... -for-2016/