Grand Prix Rejects

Geoff Lees - Shadow, Tyrrell..Ensign..etc...................not much for a Formula 2 champ. And left without trace .Somehow I didn't expect much of him though , whereas Beppe Gabbiani...I thought was going to be a big star

EDIT- now found Geoff was mentioned in the Most Forgettable Drivers discussion at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=182 , but there's always Damien Magee isn't there

Johnny Herbert did a race or two for Tyrrell around Spa 1989 IIRC

On a side note I've just noticed he raced for 3 different teams in 1994 (Lotus Ligier and Benetton) I wonder if anyone else can beat that?

EDIT; Just noticed Herbert at Tyrrell has already been mentioned. There is however Capelli stint at Tyrrell in 85 and I didn't know he drove for AGS in 1986 until just now.

Stefan Johansson's stints at AGS and Footwork in 1991.

Way before any of our times, but always surprises me that Graham Hill had a stint at Brabham.

watka wrote:Way before any of our times, but always surprises me that Graham Hill had a stint at Brabham.

Until I started doing alternative championships, I'd always thought he stopped driving in around 1970 or 71. (I knew he'd started his own team but didn't think he drove)!!

Given that in one of those years his teammate won the championship, this is an odd choice but, Heikki Kovalainen at McLaren

FullMetalJack wrote:Given that in one of those years his teammate won the championship, this is an odd choice but, Heikki Kovalainen at McLaren

In general his career was anonymous. He stepped up to Renault during their post-championship decline, was only McLaren's 4th or 5th choice (I can't quite remember, but he was behind Nick Heidfeld in the pecking order, which says a lot), and then hit a career dead-end at Caterham. His single F1 victory was an inherited one thanks to title protagonists Hamilton and Massa's respective woes.

I think you have to look at the Italian GP of the same year to really hit home the anonymity of his stint - with the Ferrari off the boil in terms of outright performance, Massa on the wrong pit strategy, and both Raikkonen and Hamilton making strategy errors in qualifying that saw them start well down the order, the circumstances were ripe for Kovalainen to take victory, and instead Vettel in the STR beat him to the punch. One might suspect a better driver would have won that race in that car.


My nomination; Mika Salo at Arrows. Apart from points at Monaco, it was a barren season for him. I always used to think of him as just transitioning straight from Tyrrell to BAR. Even when he did get that 4th place, Diniz was not far behind in 6th. A really mediocre season for him.

Robert Doornbos drove for Red Bull. Apparently.

In time I think it will become pretty easy to forget that Giancarlo Fisichella raced for Ferrari. Their dismal form in 2011 combined with Fisi being associated with Benetton/Renault for most of his career makes it hard to recall.

I'm sure as a few years pass, everyone will forget that Sergio Perez spent a season at McLaren! When you compare their lineup the year before and then the years after, it does look a little out of place. Just like Heikki at McLaren.

Mention of Tyrrell reminds me that Peter Revson had a one-off drive for the team at his home race in 1971...and it really didn't seem at all obvious how that happened. Not a Tyrrell-type personality..no obvious sponsor link..no particular reason for the team to run an extra car ( apart from possible prize money) , and it all went wrong for Peter ( retired early) while the regular drivers scampered off at the front.

yannicksamlad wrote:Mention of Tyrrell reminds me that Peter Revson had a one-off drive for the team at his home race in 1971...and it really didn't seem at all obvious how that happened. Not a Tyrrell-type personality..no obvious sponsor link..no particular reason for the team to run an extra car ( apart from possible prize money) , and it all went wrong for Peter ( retired early) while the regular drivers scampered off at the front.

Additionally, he drove in F1 as a privateer almost a full decade before he made his mark with McLaren, achieving very little.

I keep forgetting that Gabriele Tarquini drove for Tyrrell at Nurburgring in 1995. Probably because I'm more interested in what Deletraz was doing that day

Also I find Verstappen's stint at Tyrrell pretty unremarkable.

ibsey wrote:I keep forgetting that Gabriele Tarquini drove for Tyrrell at Nurburgring in 1995. Probably because I'm more interested in what Deletraz was doing that day

Also I find Verstappen's stint at Tyrrell pretty unremarkable.

As well as Brian Henton's Tyrrell stint in 1982, who scored no points whilst Alboreto was scoring podiums.

Thinking about it it's easy to forget Verstappen's Stewart stint too

Francis23 wrote:Thinking about it it's easy to forget Verstappen's Stewart stint too

I had to Google that to remind myself where that stint fitted into the history of Stewart and Verstappen's career.

And how many people knew that Alan Jones raced for Graham Hill's Embassy Hill team, and scored two-thirds of the team's points?!

dr-baker wrote:

Francis23 wrote:Thinking about it it's easy to forget Verstappen's Stewart stint too

I had to Google that to remind myself where that stint fitted into the history of Stewart and Verstappen's career.

And how many people knew that Alan Jones raced for Graham Hill's Embassy Hill team, and scored two-thirds of the team's points?!

How many people knew that Alan Jones raced in a privateer Hesketh that same year?

This wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

Francis23 wrote:Thinking about it it's easy to forget Verstappen's Stewart stint too

I had to Google that to remind myself where that stint fitted into the history of Stewart and Verstappen's career.

And how many people knew that Alan Jones raced for Graham Hill's Embassy Hill team, and scored two-thirds of the team's points?!

How many people knew that Alan Jones raced in a privateer Hesketh that same year?

How many people knew that he made a one-race comeback for Arrows in '83?

This wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

Francis23 wrote:Thinking about it it's easy to forget Verstappen's Stewart stint too

I had to Google that to remind myself where that stint fitted into the history of Stewart and Verstappen's career.

And how many people knew that Alan Jones raced for Graham Hill's Embassy Hill team, and scored two-thirds of the team's points?!

How many people knew that Alan Jones raced in a privateer Hesketh that same year?

Harry Stiller Racing was in the initial release of the CREW F1 1975. Every F1C nut does We also know the other private Heskethes of Ertl and Palm for the very same reason.

Not really a stint, but I just found out that along with his DTM drive, Jean Alesi actually tested for McLaren in 2002.



Unlike Olivier Panis two years earlier, which I absolutely do know, and also it wasn't anonymous.

Reject_Dom wrote:Not really a stint, but I just found out that along with his DTM drive, Jean Alesi actually tested for McLaren in 2002.



Unlike Olivier Panis two years earlier, which I absolutely do know, and also it wasn't anonymous.

Not really on topic, but what a flipping beautiful car.

Warren Hughes wrote:Not really on topic, but what a flipping beautiful car.

+1 on that, but I felt I'd share it as it isn't really well known that Alesi had tested for a team like McLaren after he ended his F1 career.

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Robert Doornbos drove for Red Bull. Apparently.

Yeah, anonymous, but just a little.

Doornbos had a some kind of feud with Alonso. This started in one of free practice sessions of Hungarian Grand Prix, when Alonso got angry with Doornbos because the Dutchman didn't let him go. You know the story, Alonso threw his car against him in the middle of the straight and did a brake test in the first corner, resulting in a grid penalty for the Spaniard. In the following weekend at Turkey, he had a minor contact with the Spaniard in free practice.

Mika Salo drove for (and put in some good drives at) Sauber in 2000. It went unnoticed though.

Ralf Schumacher testing for Force India to try and get a drive. Also for me I would say Paul di Resta's career. I literally remember nothing he did.

After watching an old race I was reminded of Barrichello's Honda stint 2006-2008. Thinking about it, the only thing I remember about his time at Honda was the shock podium at Silverstone in '08. I can't remember a single other thing he ever did at Honda, whereas at least Button had a pole position and a win, with some memorable moments (in his engine blowing up in Albert Park). Thinking about it, I might even stretch Barrichello's streak of anonymity back to 2005 as well, where once I again I can recall pretty much nothing he did that year. With the exception of the podium in the opening race, he was pretty much outperformed once Schumacher got the hang of the prancing sloth that was the F2005.

Barrichello's later career summary in my mind seems to come up with a rather empty gap between Ferrari and Brawn, with three years of apparent anonymity in between.

I remember Ralf Schumacher the Jordan driver, but I struggle to remember his Williams and Toyota days.

Gianni Morbidelli's two race stint at Scuderia Italia in early 1990.

Come to think of it, Bernd Schneider at Arrows and Gregor Foitek at Brabham as well.

Alonso at Minardi.

FullMetalJack wrote:Gianni Morbidelli's two race stint at Scuderia Italia in early 1990.

Come to think of it, Bernd Schneider at Arrows and Gregor Foitek at Brabham as well.

Similarly Stefan Johansson's two races for AGS at the start of 1991.

And not sure if these count as they formed a part of larger stints that I do easily remember, but I'd forgotten Bertrand Gachot joined Larrousse for the last race of 1991 after getting out of the slammer, and that Karl Wendlinger joined Leyton House/March at the end of the year as well

Izzyeviel wrote:I remember Ralf Schumacher the Jordan driver, but I struggle to remember his Williams and Toyota days.

Ralf crashing his Toyota at Indianapolis in 2005 led to an unforgettable weekend...

Izzyeviel wrote:I remember Ralf Schumacher the Jordan driver, but I struggle to remember his Williams and Toyota days.

I do not recall him doing badly at all in Williams...

Izzyeviel wrote:I remember Ralf Schumacher the Jordan driver, but I struggle to remember his Williams and Toyota days.

I remember Ralf's stint at Williams. Specially some certain races in 2003, where he suddenly became the best driver of the grid. Then he disappeared in 2004, and was never to be seen again (except a pole lap in Suzuka in 2005). Bar that, no clue about what he did in Toyota, except that they we're paying him over 20 million a year to go around in 10th place.

Reject_Dom wrote:

Izzyeviel wrote:I remember Ralf Schumacher the Jordan driver, but I struggle to remember his Williams and Toyota days.

I do not recall him doing badly at all in Williams...

He didn't. All of his Grand Prix wins came while driving for them. He was not quite as good as Montoya but he was no slouch. Nevertheless, he did get his share of bashing from Jamie and Enoch, as far as I remember

Oddly enough, I find Ralf's Jordan stint fairly anonymous compared to his Williams days when he looked a potential WDC (had his brother never driven in F1, of course), and his Toyota days when he claimed he was the third best driver in F1.

Salamander wrote:Oddly enough, I find Ralf's Jordan stint fairly anonymous compared to his Williams days when he looked a potential WDC (had his brother never driven in F1, of course), and his Toyota days when he claimed he was the third best driver in F1.

Really Ralf, really?



When did he claim he was the third best driver in F1? I'm sure I saw it on an old race review, but i'd love to know what was going through his mind.

I've probably already written it somewhere on this forum, but I often forget Fisichella's stint at Sauber and assume he had directly switched from Jordan to Renault.

novitopoli wrote:I've probably already written it somewhere on this forum, but I often forget Fisichella's stint at Sauber and assume he had directly switched from Jordan to Renault.

I usually forget his second stint at Jordan too. Despite the fact that he won that race.

novitopoli wrote:I've probably already written it somewhere on this forum, but I often forget Fisichella's stint at Sauber and assume he had directly switched from Jordan to Renault.

Yeah, I sometimes forget that too, and about Heidfeld going the other way the same year from Sauber to Jordan. I also tend to forget Glock's brief stint in the same team (also 2004), though I think that might already have been mentioned here... Possibly the others too

FullMetalJack wrote:

Salamander wrote:Oddly enough, I find Ralf's Jordan stint fairly anonymous compared to his Williams days when he looked a potential WDC (had his brother never driven in F1, of course), and his Toyota days when he claimed he was the third best driver in F1.

Really Ralf, really?



When did he claim he was the third best driver in F1? I'm sure I saw it on an old race review, but i'd love to know what was going through his mind.

Unless maybe he meant the third best paid driver.

In all seriousness wasn't he on a ridiculous salary at Toyota? Certainly not value for money.

But yeah his Toyota stint was pretty forgettable, especially 2007, I don't recall anything from him that year (admittedly I'd zoned out a bit in general that year, combination of spec tyres and the Hamilton fap fest kind of dulled my interest a bit).

Don't agree on the Williams bit though - was capable of beating everyone including his brother on his day, although how much of that was his day and how much was the car's and Michelin's day is probably open to debate.

It's probably due to the fact I didn't follow Formula 1 very much in 2003-2004, but I completely missed that Marc Genè raced (and unrejectified himself) for Williams. I always assumed he had been appointed as a Ferrari test driver soon after the end of his Minardi stint.

I liked Ralf, he was a decent enough driver. But at Jordan he was the next big thing and whilst I know he won races at Williams, I don't remember any of them or his other performances. The only 2 drives I can recall are the two at Indy where he certainly made a big impact. I have no idea when he joined Toyota. 2004? 2007?

Speaking of Toyota - did Zonta drive for them at some point?