The end of the little teams?

[Leyton House]

With the news Caterham and now Marussia have gone into administration, it seems the circumstances for a small team to survive in F1 are worse than they have ever been.
Big money has ruled F1 since the 80s at least and there have always been 'haves and have nots', but while the have nots have never had a brilliant chance of success they at least had a reasonable chance of survival. It seems now that any new team without the backing of a bottomless pit of money (see Red Bull) are all but doomed from the outset, and in my mind there are four clear reasons for it;

The totally unequal way in which the sport's revenue is divided.
Bernie's habit of poaching sponsors from teams to sponsor the circuits.
Ultra reliable cars make it extremely unlikely for a lower team to score points.
The rules demanding extremely expensive and over-complicated designs.

When teams like McLaren and Sauber are running almost bereft of sponsorship, the latter still not having a point to it's name this season, something is clearly amiss. Dare I say it, I believe the worst thing F1 ever did is give the teams a say on how the sport is run. The FIA may be a highly political organisation, but it and it alone should be running the sport. Right now it is run by the teams and the commercial rights holder, the teams can't see past the ends of their own noses and a commercial rights holder by definition exists to make money - and it shows.
Take NASCAR as an alternative, the redneck roundabouts are not everyone's cup of tea but bear with me. The governing body looks after the sport, and the teams look after themselves. It's clear as a Texan sky the way the whole thing operates, you don't have to pay the GDP of a small country just to enter and they aren't changing the way the cars are built every season so teams can save money if need be.
F1 is obviously a very different animal, but I feel it needs to be opened up and generally simplified. Customer cars could work if applied the right way, those who say it's against F1's traditions need to check their history. The requirement to run two cars and do every race could be scrapped in a heartbeat. The requirement to run these expensive hybrid powertrains could be done away with, allowing those manufacturers who wanted to use them to actually demonstrate their superiority over 'traditional' units.
I honestly don't mind the concept of three car teams as has been mooted, but not at the expense of the minnow. Long may the small team have a place in F1!

[Yannick]

It's indeed worrysome for F1 that not one but two of its teams have fallen into administration at the same time. When was the last time that happened (if ever)?

[Nin13]

I believe the worst thing F1 ever did is give the teams a say on how the sport is run. The FIA may be a highly political organisation, but it and it alone should be running the sport. Right now it is run by the teams and the commercial rights holder, the teams can't see past the ends of their own noses and a commercial rights holder by definition exists to make money - and it shows.
I honestly don't mind the concept of three car teams as has been mooted, but not at the expense of the minnow.

FIA has tried to introduce budget cap in past but every time Ferrari has vetoed against rule change. And now you have to bare consequences now. You cant blame FIA or FOM, they have tried and top teams have not been keen. Remember breakaway series saga during 2nd half of 2008 season.

Some years back even Moto GP had similar problem and field was down to 16. This year they introduced 2 different groups factory and open class within Moto GP.
We should also have same thing. One group constructors like Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren, Williams, RBR. Others which can buy old chassis from these teams like Force India, Sauber, Lotus. That way it will decrease cost of development for lower teams and more teams are likely to join.

As far as 3 cars are concerned There are rules for 3 cars too, they will not force all teams to run 3 cars. FIA will decide which teams and smaller teams will be exempted . Also 3rd car will not score constructors points. But again it will be problem for smaller team. Like for example if Mercedes finish 1-2-3, even though 3rd car does not get points. One finishing 11th who otherwise should have been 10th will lose points. Lets say 3 Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren make 9 places. So for others it will be tough, even though each of 3rd car does not score points, it takes away others points.

[andrew2209]

When the budget cap was planned in 2010, I think there were around 15 new entries attempting to appl,y of which 3 (then later 4) became successful. What is their greatest achievement? 9th at Monaco. The current system in Formula 1 is failing, as there's no incentive for teams to join, if they'll be pounding around the back of the field, struggling to survive.

I remember when everyone was talking about an F1 split. At this rate, I could see it happening. Someone create a series called "GP1", set a reasonable budget cap, and I'd be up for watching that.

[noiceinmydrink]

I remember when everyone was talking about an F1 split. At this rate, I could see it happening. Someone create a series called "GP1", set a reasonable budget cap, and I'd be up for watching that.

call it FORMULA JUAN

[dr-baker]

Is/was Minardi the last small-budget team that managed to survive long-term in the sport as a small-budget team (i.e. say 5+ years)?

[tommykl]

Is/was Minardi the last small-budget team that managed to survive long-term in the sport as a small-budget team (i.e. say 5+ years)?

If you count late-era Jordan/Midland/Spyker/early Force India, then them too.

[AdrianSutil]

Is/was Minardi the last small-budget team that managed to survive long-term in the sport as a small-budget team (i.e. say 5+ years)?

If you count late-era Jordan/Midland/Spyker/early Force India, then them too.

i wouldn't count that lot, especially as they had a new buyer every season, thus eliminating the prospect of administration/bankrupcy/folding.

[Collieafc]

When teams like McLaren and Sauber are running almost bereft of sponsorship, the latter still not having a point to it's name this season, something is clearly amiss. Dare I say it, I believe the worst thing F1 ever did is give the teams a say on how the sport is run. The FIA may be a highly political organisation, but it and it alone should be running the sport. Right now it is run by the teams and the commercial rights holder, the teams can't see past the ends of their own noses and a commercial rights holder by definition exists to make money - and it shows.

This is a good discussion point and to me raised parallels with (bear with me) what happened in Scotland with the Scottish Premier League - This was formed so the top football teams in Scotland got a bigger share of revenue and a (somewhat) bigger say in matters. It had the "Big Teams" (Rangers, Celtic - akin to your Ferrari's and Mercedes) your moderately large teams (Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd - Your present day McLarens, Williams, Enstone based outfits and Saubers) and a medley of other teams which would be your Marussia's, Toro Rosso's and Caterams with varying degrees of rejectworthyness from 1-10.

It also had gimmicks (you can see the parallels here) such as the league split. It also was nicknamed the "Self Preservation League" for various reasons. One main reason was that only one team was relegated per season and another promoted but it did not stop there - the team to be promoted had to fit certain criteria before it was allowed in. One very notorious one was the demand of stadiums to have a minimum capacity of 10,000 (later reduced to 6000) this was daft as some teams who promoted (such as Gretna and Ross County) were based in areas where the entire population was less than this! This rule was seen as protecting some of the more prominant teams from dropping down and as a result losing a lot of money.

At first it was popular, but eventually falling attendances due to continued dominance of 2 teams and having to play the same teams 3-4 times a year every year meant falling incomes. However, fan demands for such things like a bigger league or abolishing the top-6 split were ignored as the teams put their own (commercial) interests first. At first smaller teams went into administration but eventually the entire league came crashing down and forced to listen to fan demands when first Hearts and then Rangers fell on their financial arses hard. By this point Scotland had far less footballing prestige than when the SPL started.

The lessons of the story? Teams/participants should not be able to run the show or eventually they will all be worse for wear - it wouldnt look good if Ferrari and McLaren hit the wall. That being said, the FIA and FOM shouldnt have too much power either. All 3 should be acting as a check and balance to each other - right now its 20/40/40 against the FIA.

And also listen to what the fans want - in the end it is what props the sport up.

[Ferrim]

I remember when everyone was talking about an F1 split. At this rate, I could see it happening. Someone create a series called "GP1", set a reasonable budget cap, and I'd be up for watching that.

I believe a certain Mr. E, whose resignation I've been asking for in my signature for years, has that trademark registered. Seriously.

I'm also of the opinion that participants shouldn't be allowed to run a competition. For all the woes of European football, I believe we live in the best possible world with the UEFA still running the show, instead of a Superleague with the best teams in the continent, as was proposed a few years ago.

In any case, what I feel is key is that all the participants enjoy the same rights. After all, the Premier League is also run by the participant clubs and it's in pretty good shape, I would say. But there, for example, you have a centralised sale of TV rights which allows for a competitive competition. Compare that to La Liga, also run by the clubs but where every team sells its rights and you have two teams taking 50% of the money. F1 is certainly looking more similar to this latter model, because you have several teams with "special rights" (formerly it was just Ferrari, but recently they've introduced additional price money, as well as voting rights, for other top teams) which are improving their position at the expense of the rest.

[CoopsII]

I remember when everyone was talking about an F1 split. At this rate, I could see it happening. Someone create a series called "GP1", set a reasonable budget cap, and I'd be up for watching that.

I believe a certain Mr. E, whose resignation I've been asking for in my signature for years, has that trademark registered. Seriously.

I think terms like "Grand Prix" and any variation are also owned by him so that if any other series were formed, as Briatore and others suggested some years ago, it wouldnt sound comparably similar to his product.

[DemocalypseNow]

I remember when everyone was talking about an F1 split. At this rate, I could see it happening. Someone create a series called "GP1", set a reasonable budget cap, and I'd be up for watching that.

I believe a certain Mr. E, whose resignation I've been asking for in my signature for years, has that trademark registered. Seriously.

Not even Formula 1 has a registered trademark. Unregistered trademarks however depend on an already-established presence of the trademark being in use, which GP1 has not. So any of us could rock up and make a series called "GP1". As long as we established it before Bernie or any of his cronies did, we would have the rights to the unregistered trademark

[Klon]

And also listen to what the fans want - in the end it is what props the sport up.

Do not. Fans are insipid, fickle creatures who wouldn't know what they want if it bit them in the arse.

[CoopsII]

And also listen to what the fans want - in the end it is what props the sport up.

Do not. Fans are insipid, fickle creatures who wouldn't know what they want if it bit them in the arse.

I agree and include myself in that. However, if not fans or people like us who enjoy the sport then who?

[DemocalypseNow]

And also listen to what the fans want - in the end it is what props the sport up.

Do not. Fans are insipid, fickle creatures who wouldn't know what they want if it bit them in the arse.

I agree and include myself in that. However, if not fans or people like us who enjoy the sport then who?

People with extremely high levels of disposable income. Trust fund kids. We are not those...

[DanielPT]

Do not. Fans are insipid, fickle creatures who wouldn't know what they want if it bit them in the arse.

I agree and include myself in that. However, if not fans or people like us who enjoy the sport then who?

People with extremely high levels of disposable income. Trust fund kids. We are not those...

And casual fans. Don't forget them. They and the never ending idiotic quest to attract them are the center of F1 universe right now.

Hardcore fans only want to go back to their cherished childhood racing but will still see anyway while casuals only want to be emotionally involved. As F1 fails at the latter and is not really gaining more of the former, the end result is less people interested regardless of what they are doing to improve the 'show'.

[Ataxia]

I agree and include myself in that. However, if not fans or people like us who enjoy the sport then who?

People with extremely high levels of disposable income. Trust fund kids. We are not those...

And casual fans. Don't forget them. They and the never ending idiotic quest to attract them are the center of F1 universe right now.

Hardcore fans only want to go back to their cherished childhood racing but will still see anyway while casuals only want to be emotionally involved. As F1 fails at the latter and is not really gaining more of the former, the end result is less people interested regardless of what they are doing to improve the 'show'.

If I was in charge of the FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP™, I'd try and see if it was possible to do these things:

1) Make stuff cheaper. Provide a maximum limit an engine supplier can charge. Standard ECU works, why not have a standard gearbox too?
2) Bigger media presence. Don't make it so exclusive.
3) Create a "customer" class for teams operating under £40m a year; more standardised parts, but subject to quarterly audits. Manufacturer teams cannot do this.
4) Online streaming pass. £150 a year, free online access to all the races. £15 for one select race weekend. No adverts.
5) Provide £500,000 to the team who signs the current GP2 SERIES™ champion.

Forget the show, just make it more accessible, you know?

[DanielPT]

If I was in charge of the FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP™, I'd try and see if it was possible to do these things:

1) Make stuff cheaper. Provide a maximum limit an engine supplier can charge. Standard ECU works, why not have a standard gearbox too?
2) Bigger media presence. Don't make it so exclusive.
3) Create a "customer" class for teams operating under £40m a year; more standardised parts, but subject to quarterly audits. Manufacturer teams cannot do this.
4) Online streaming pass. £150 a year, free online access to all the races. £15 for one select race weekend. No adverts.
5) Provide £500,000 to the team who signs the current GP2 SERIES™ champion.

Forget the show, just make it more accessible, you know?

I don't know if accessible will do it. See Football. It is getting pricier by the day and yet people still follow because they are involved emotionally. Most people I know only care about the team they support and don't even care if a champions league final is on or not. It is not about the sport or the show, it is about emotions. They connected when kids with their team. F1 needs to realise the problem is not the show. The show was fine as it was. They just needed to keep it as simple as possible like building a car, hiring a driver and trying to finish first. F1 needs to connect emotionally because that is the only way grab the casual fan. You know, a bond like it used to exist when Senna was around...

[Ataxia]

If I was in charge of the FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP™, I'd try and see if it was possible to do these things:

1) Make stuff cheaper. Provide a maximum limit an engine supplier can charge. Standard ECU works, why not have a standard gearbox too?
2) Bigger media presence. Don't make it so exclusive.
3) Create a "customer" class for teams operating under £40m a year; more standardised parts, but subject to quarterly audits. Manufacturer teams cannot do this.
4) Online streaming pass. £150 a year, free online access to all the races. £15 for one select race weekend. No adverts.
5) Provide £500,000 to the team who signs the current GP2 SERIES™ champion.

Forget the show, just make it more accessible, you know?

I don't know if accessible will do it. See Football. It is getting pricier by the day and yet people still follow because they are involved emotionally. Most people I know only care about the team they support and don't even care if a champions league final is on or not. It is not about the sport or the show, it is about emotions. They connected when kids with their team. F1 needs to realise the problem is not the show. The show was fine as it was. They just needed to keep it as simple as possible like building a car, hiring a driver and trying to finish first. F1 needs to connect emotionally because that is the only way grab the casual fan. You know, a bond like it used to exist when Senna was around...

The plans above strip the sport down a bit, which is the idea. Amongst the customer teams, it's about who's the smartest with a budget, and for the engine suppliers it's about making the best engines at a sustainable level; if teams are forced to allocate only £10M or less of their budgets to engines, then it adds some parity. Then it starts to become about drivers; the Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull drivers will capture the hearts and minds of the audience, but if a "customer class" team were to take their £40M and maximise their results as much as possible with it then people might start to fawn over the little teams. Or it might drive a huge wedge in the competition...but it didn't for MotoGP.

With regards to the emotional gubbins, that comes with time. Give the fans something to dribble about. Grosjean hustling his customer-class Lotus to a podium. Alonso driving amazing races, all that stuff. Senna only got popular after the film, anyway. Titles would come out like:

"Alonso" (like Senna, but less ethereal drivel and more moaning...my kind of bloke)
"Li'l Sebastian" (He's 5000 candles in the wind)
"Verstappen to the Max" (the chronicle of the man who people wanted to hate but couldn't; it'll be like a cross between Blade Runner and Rocky IV, with Helmut Marko as some cybernetic bad guy with the emotional capacity of an autistic woodlouse)
".44 Magnussen" (A spaghetti western; Ron Dennis stars as the sheriff of McLaren's Leap, a small town of 650 people. Kevin's either the golden boy or an outcast teaming up with some fugitives, depending on his future)
"The Rosberg" (Titanic crashes into a giant Nico Rosberg; the film's two hours of The Rosberg begin with him initially claiming to want to prove a point, but once people start drowning he says sorry and starts to save them with his giant ice-hands and watch)
"Ham and Hamiltonility" (Lewis Hamilton stars as a Regency-era landowner, who devotes himself to laying down "wonderfully sick compositions" and his dog, Mr. Roscoelet. The story chronicles Mr. Hamilton's endeavours to find a bride less awful than the occasional yoghurt saleswoman he has on-off relations with)
"DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN!...I don't think he can hear me...DAN! DAAAAN!" (Starring Steve Coogan and Daniel Ricciardo. The word "Dan" is said a lot.)
"The Rai Who Loved Me" (Kimi Raikkonen is a secret agent, codename James Hunt. Although frequently captured, his monosyllabic mumbling has caused no state secrets to be released. That is, until "Wolff" (played by Africa-peddlers Toto...oh, the OTHER one. Right.) captures Mr. Hunt and proceeds to lure him to talk with vodka. Will state secrets be revealed? Will Eon sue for the obvious rip-off of their James Bond franchise? Will Buxton make an appearance? He Will.)

[DemocalypseNow]

"DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN! DAN!...I don't think he can hear me...DAN! DAAAAN!" (Starring Steve Coogan and Daniel Ricciardo. The word "Dan" is said a lot.)

Just in case nobody gets it...

[DanielPT]

The plans above strip the sport down a bit, which is the idea. Amongst the customer teams, it's about who's the smartest with a budget, and for the engine suppliers it's about making the best engines at a sustainable level; if teams are forced to allocate only £10M or less of their budgets to engines, then it adds some parity. Then it starts to become about drivers; the Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull drivers will capture the hearts and minds of the audience, but if a "customer class" team were to take their £40M and maximise their results as much as possible with it then people might start to fawn over the little teams. Or it might drive a huge wedge in the competition...but it didn't for MotoGP.

I certainly agree with simplifying things. I don't agree with standard parts though. I would prefer an alternative (ex. budget cap) instead. As for customer teams, it depends on the day really but ideally everyone should be a constructor. Customer teams, for me at least, would only be allowed if a year old stock or upgraded by the customer team itself.

With regards to the emotional gubbins, that comes with time. Give the fans something to dribble about. Grosjean hustling his customer-class Lotus to a podium. Alonso driving amazing races, all that stuff. Senna only got popular after the film, anyway.

The problem of the emotional stuff is that in F1 it tends to happen with the drivers and not with the team and as we know drivers time in F1 is relatively short. From what I could observe, once you are casual and watch the sport for a driver, you tend to watch it until that driver either retires or plunges down the field. We all verified that the Schumacher fans did not return for another driver. Not for Vettel nor Rosberg. Some of them supported Michael in his comeback but others just switched off after realising he wouldn't be fighting for championships. Connection must happen with the teams. They can be around for longer. Think about it, which teams gather more fans around? Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. Sure Red Bull and Mercedes also have their fans but truthfully it is still a small and volatile fanbase (mainly due to the drivers). It is not a coincidence that those three teams I mentioned first are the ones who stuck around for longer. This is the missing link with the casual fans. Also do not forget that most casual do not bother in following F1 into pay-per-view world and certainly not for a sport that usually spit on fans faces.

Don't underestimate this emotional part. It is this connection most people want to have when they watch sport and if F1 wants a piece of that pie that is the way, I believe. Otherwise, it will still have the hardcore ones, but risks to be transformed into a smaller and secundary sport.

Finally, I don't agree Senna got popular after the film. Maybe that happened in England because you had many other drivers to support. For those who had few or none, Senna transcended the sport. He was a true global super star. It might be arguable that Schumacher was the other one to achieve that status since but it is a rare thing to happen in F1 and hasn't been seen since (Hamilton is the only one that can do it IMHO).

[Ferrim]

Will all due respect, how anyone could say Senna wasn't popular before the film is beyond me.

[Nessafox]

Will all due respect, how anyone could say Senna wasn't popular before the film is beyond me.

If it did anything, it widened the gap between Senna-lovers and Senna-haters. (as personally, that movie made me dislike him even more than i did) But hate is also an emotion that could make a sport more popular. What would a football competition be worth if there isn't a team you strongly dislike? Someone you would love to see lose as much as possible games, but you would miss them when they're gone. It's like the friendly rivalry of Belgium with the Netherlans. Tensions can get very high, not only in sports, but in every day life. But we couldn't imagine a life without each other, and don't have the same emotions for other neighbor countries. It spices up our life!
It's a lot like everyday social life, altough most people on here probably don't have a social life

[DanielPT]

Will all due respect, how anyone could say Senna wasn't popular before the film is beyond me.

If it did anything, it widened the gap between Senna-lovers and Senna-haters. (as personally, that movie made me dislike him even more than i did) But hate is also an emotion that could make a sport more popular. What would a football competition be worth if there isn't a team you strongly dislike? Someone you would love to see lose as much as possible games, but you would miss them when they're gone. It's like the friendly rivalry of Belgium with the Netherlans. Tensions can get very high, not only in sports, but in every day life. But we couldn't imagine a life without each other, and don't have the same emotions for other neighbor countries. It spices up our life!
It's a lot like everyday social life, altough most people on here probably don't have a social life

Hummm... Someone knows if Celtic fans are missing Rangers in the SPL?

I don't think the profound dislike (or hate if you will) people have with Lewisteria or Red Bull and The Finger domination made them watch or get closer to the sport because the wish of seeing them fail. On the contrary. What would improve was a rivalry. A real one, not one fabricated by the press although that still probably helped to improve ratings.

[Nessafox]

Will all due respect, how anyone could say Senna wasn't popular before the film is beyond me.

If it did anything, it widened the gap between Senna-lovers and Senna-haters. (as personally, that movie made me dislike him even more than i did) But hate is also an emotion that could make a sport more popular. What would a football competition be worth if there isn't a team you strongly dislike? Someone you would love to see lose as much as possible games, but you would miss them when they're gone. It's like the friendly rivalry of Belgium with the Netherlans. Tensions can get very high, not only in sports, but in every day life. But we couldn't imagine a life without each other, and don't have the same emotions for other neighbor countries. It spices up our life!
It's a lot like everyday social life, altough most people on here probably don't have a social life

Hummm... Someone knows if Celtic fans are missing Rangers in the SPL?

I don't think the profound dislike (or hate if you will) people have with Lewisteria or Red Bull and The Finger domination made them watch or get closer to the sport because the wish of seeing them fail. On the contrary. What would improve was a rivalry. A real one, not one fabricated by the press although that still probably helped to improve ratings.

No, disliking someone isn't a reason to get involved. But it does keep you interested. I wouldn't like Prost if it weren't for Senna. I probably just wouldn't care.
And yes, Celtic fans are actually missing Rangers a lot. Of course, they will never admit that.

[Ataxia]

Various reports are suggesting that Forza Rossa might ACTUALLY be a real thing next year if they can get the funding together.

[dr-baker]

Various reports are suggesting that Forza Rossa might ACTUALLY be a real thing next year if they can get the funding together.

Hate to be the one to type this, but examples of various sauces sources please? Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

Pasta?

[Miguel98]

Various reports are suggesting that Forza Rossa might ACTUALLY be a real thing next year if they can get the funding together.

Hate to be the one to type this, but examples of various sauces sources please? Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

Well, looking at the events of the last few months *cough*Kolles and purchase of Catheram*cough*, it's a hardly a surprise.

[Ataxia]

Various reports are suggesting that Forza Rossa might ACTUALLY be a real thing next year if they can get the funding together.

Hate to be the one to type this, but examples of various sauces sources please? Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

Well, let's wait and see first. I just thought I'd add a bit of hope to the morbid nature of the thread. Here's the source I DO have.

I don't want this to be a case of "I am physically barred from posting anything if Autosport is not a reference".

[pasta_maldonado]

Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

[dr-baker]

Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

Very good...

Various reports are suggesting that Forza Rossa might ACTUALLY be a real thing next year if they can get the funding together.

Hate to be the one to type this, but examples of various sauces sources please? Plus, Autosport or it ain't happening...

Well, let's wait and see first. I just thought I'd add a bit of hope to the morbid nature of the thread. Here's the source I DO have.

I don't want this to be a case of "I am physically barred from posting anything if Autosport is not a reference".

Hey, just rehashing a Rejects meme. Geez.

Then you go from stating that there are "various sources" to "Here's one source I DO have." If you only have one source, fine. I'm interested and would like to read it. And thank you for then linking to it. But if you say there are various sources, then make it seem as if there's only one source, I would like you to be honest and consistent.

But as to the news story itself. As great as it would be for there to be another team next year, I fear that at this stage, it may be as rushed as MasterCard Lola was, and not be successful. But the 2010 new teams lasted longer than Simtek did (barring USF1), and we'll have another Reject team to back, so...

[Ataxia]

Hey, just rehashing a Rejects meme. Geez.

Then you go from stating that there are "various sources" to "Here's one source I DO have." If you only have one source, fine. I'm interested and would like to read it. And thank you for then linking to it. But if you say there are various sources, then make it seem as if there's only one source, I would like you to be honest and consistent.

But as to the news story itself. As great as it would be for there to be another team next year, I fear that at this stage, it may be as rushed as MasterCard Lola was, and not be successful. But the 2010 new teams lasted longer than Simtek did (barring USF1), and we'll have another Reject team to back, so...

Please stop combing through my posts with such apparent disdain for what I or others have to say; I simply stated something that was happening and provided one of the few sources to which I had alluded to; you responded sanctimoniously, which was unnecessary.

There ARE other sources out there; the article itself states that the primary source was The Independent. I never stated it was true; the rumour mill's in over-drive at this point, but I thought I'd share it because it was kinda relevant. I didn't realise you were the moral arbiter of all forum posts.

[CoopsII]

I don't want this to be a case of "I am physically barred from posting anything if Autosport is not a reference".

Can someone stick this someone it can be read by all please. A.O.I.D.H is becoming the new war-cry of the anal-retentive. If you really feel that every post needs the backing of Autosport to "put it out there" then why don't you frig off and JUST READ AUTOSPORT.

[DanielPT]

Hey, just rehashing a Rejects meme. Geez.

[dr-baker]

OK, OK. I'll just back out of this for a while. Seems like I overstepped a line there. Plus I have something to look at in the last post to keep me busy for a few minutes...

[Wallio]

Racer magazine (and other sources) or not, there can't be anyway possible they can be remotely ready for next year, right? The Rejectfulness could be epic.

[Sublime_FA11C]

Well Bernie is out to make new friends with comments such as "We need the smaller teams if they are going to perform properly, but not if they're going to go around with begging buckets." I may have misquoted slightly but that's the gist of it. I take it to read that he's surprised that Marussia and Caterham are still trying and should have quit ages ago when it became obvious the budget cap wasn't happening. And if Sauber, Lotus or Force India cannot fund themselves they could just go... you know what, nevermind.

He did in almost the same breath state that a 3 car team solution is a short term solution only and even then it may not work at all. A long term, 3 car team framework he thinks would be suicidal. Well... what the hell then? There's only a few competitive teams left, they wont take a smaller cut of the prize money, midfield practically doesnt exist and is so poor they are effectively indentured backmarkers, and the actual backmarkers can flat out just not bother. I agree that F1 should not be an investment opportunity first and a sport second, but there has to be some way in for new teams. It's a hell of a statement to make when the only remotely reasonable new team to come is US based and is already bracing itself for survival.

Oh and he criticised the engines yet again, thouh that may just be because he's hard of hearing. Who knows what the hell he's trying to achieve anyway, it seems so contradictory right now. A 14 car grid for 2015 would surely hurt GP income and that is the largest source, but small teams should die and stop getting in the way. V6 turbos are responsible for a fairly exciting upheaval in competitivnes after the stale RB steamroller and the racing has been pretty exciting as well. But they dont make enough noise... they dont make enough noise. :|

You know what makes noise? Airports and busy highways and they cause neighbouring houses to demand much higher prices because everyone loves noise so much. Cars and buses in cities are being mandated to be as noisy as humanly possible and electric cars must attach empty tin cans tied to a piece of string because they dont make enough noise! Should those damn Vuvuzelas be fitted to exhausts of F1 cars? Would that improve the show?? Why is noise an issue at all? In a sport so high-tech and advanced, why is a pedestrian issue such as noise even taken seriously?

You know what else is making noise? Half the damn teams in F1 are making noise. They're going broke and leaving the sport. They should not be given money just because they cry loudly enough, but they could be given a fair crack at competing. Or participating in a professional and proper way. A way that earns over a billion dollars annually. Who wouldn't want to spend 60-70 millions of their own, to ensure the strategy group members have enough billions to divide up.

Yeah, i don't know why i'm ranting, i'm just watching this unfold and thinking out loud. Well noise is a personal hatred of mine. There's no way the big teams will want to share with newcomers or underachivers. Fine, i can agree to that. But underachivers are underachieving because they cannot throw enough bags of money at developing and improving their cars quickly enough, and pretty much must forefeit a season if they get something wrong. The sport is in serious trouble if they expect the new entries to come in with bigger budgets than current top spenders, because that's what it takes to participate in a professional and proper way and even then there's no guarantee of survival. See Toyota... not that any new team the likes of Toyota is about to enter F1 any time soon anyway.

[Miguel98]

http://thisisf1.com/2014/10/31/ecclestone-warns-2015-f1-reduced-14-cars/

I.. I... don't even bathplug' know. I want to say "bathplug You Bernie", retire, die, what ever.. This is bullshite. F1 is dying, yep.

[noiceinmydrink]

http://thisisf1.com/2014/10/31/ecclestone-warns-2015-f1-reduced-14-cars/

I.. I... don't even bathplug' know. I want to say "bathplug You Bernie", retire, die, what ever.. This is bullshite. F1 is dying, yep.

That's not that bad, Bernie didn't threaten to pull the plug on more teams, he just said "18 - 4 = 14".