Alt-1956: Post-season auction is over!

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco

Round 3 is now open.

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France

Round 4 is now open.

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium

Round 5 has now begun.

By the way, my laptop has now been repaired, and in a very surprising turn of events, I've been able to keep all of my files, meaning I can start the Monza race weekend as soon as the voting is completed.

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium
5. Netherlands

Nearly halfway through now, round 6 is open.

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium
5. Netherlands
6. Ireland

Round 7 is up next.

[tommykl]

While all the voting occurs, time to start running the race weekend! Here are the performance figures for qualifying. To give a better indication, both lowest and highest performance values are given. Drivers are ranked according to their highest possible figure.

Taraschi - 89-123
Thirion - 88-119
Russell - 85-119
Bayol - 95-118
Bira - 91-118
Davison - 90-118
Guelfi - 85-118
Volonterio - 90-117
Fangio - 88-117
Hawthorn - 87-117
Perdisa - 81-117
Frère - 93-116
Bianchi - 91-116
Cabianca - 90-115
Marimón - 84-115
Castellotti - 83-115
Musso - 84-114
Behra - 91-113
Gerini - 87-113
de Filippis - 86-113
Salvadori - 93-112
Bonnier - 86-112
Piotti - 85-112
Bonnet - 83-111
Hampshire - 78-111
Sanesi - 91-110
Collins - 83-110
Moss - 98-109
Brabham - 96-109
Serafini - 87-109
González - 90-108
Scotti - 83-108
Gaze - 88-107
Becucci - 88-107
Titterington - 87-107
Manzon - 86-107
Glöckler - 80-107
Ruttman - 85-106
Maglioli - 76-106
Flockhart - 87-105
Gregory - 85-105
Lewis-Evans - 88-104
Hamilton - 88-103

[tommykl]

Qualifying standings
1. Jack Brabham (Gordini) - 2:43.25
2. Mike Hawthorn (B.C.M.A.) - 2:44.62
3. Stirling Moss (O.S.C.A.) - 2:44.75
4. Robert Manzon (O.S.C.A.) - 2:44.82
5. B. Bira (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) - 2:44.85
6. Peter Collins (B.C.M.A.) - 2:45.01
7. Ottorino Volonterio (O.S.C.A.) - 2:45.21
8. Consalvo Sanesi (Gordini) - 2:46.48
9. José Froilán González (O.S.C.A.) - 2:46.55
10. Eugenio Castellotti (Gordini) - 2:46.58
11. Desmond Titterington (Lancia) - 2:46.78
12. Troy Ruttman (O.S.C.A.) - 2:47.89
13. Tony Gaze (Ferrari) - 2:48.08
14. Jo Bonnier (Gordini) - 2:48.67
15. Umberto Maglioli (Ferrari) - 2:50.24
16. Giulio Cabianca (Ferrari) - 2:50.30
17. Onofre Marimón (O.S.C.A.) - 2:51.22
18. Juan Manuel Fangio (Ferrari) - 2:52.78
19. Gilberte Thirion (O.S.C.A.-Hernandez) - 2:53.27
20. Stuart Lewis-Evans (B.C.M.A.) - 2:53.99
21. Masten Gregory (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) - 2:54.22
22. Duncan Hamilton (Lancia) - 2:54.32
23. Luigi Musso (Lancia) - 2:57.16
24. André Guelfi (O.S.C.A.) - 2:57.68
25. Lex Davison (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) - 2:58.99
26. Dorino Serafini (Ferrari) - 2:59.09
27. Roy Salvadori (Vanwall-O.S.C.A.) - 3:00.33
28. Jean Behra (O.S.C.A.) - 3:00.36
29. Jim Russell (Vanwall) - 3:00.39
30. Lucien Bianchi (Cooper-Maserati) - 3:00.46
31. Gerino Gerini (Ferrari) - 3:00.82
32. David Hampshire (Vanwall) - 3:01.14
33. Maria Teresa de Filippis (Cooper-Climax) - 3:01.63
34. Cesare Perdisa (AAC) - 3:01.64
35. Elie Bayol (Gordini) - 3:03.53
36. Helm Glöckler (Cooper-Climax) - 3:04.90
37. Paul Frère (BRM) - 3:05.62
38. Luigi Piotti (AAC) - 3:06.56
39. Piero Scotti (AAC) - 3:09.89
40. Ron Flockhart (BRM) - 3:10.90
41. Berardo Taraschi (O.S.C.A.-AAC) - 3:12.57
42. Giorgio Becucci (AAC) - 3:12.96
43. René Bonnet (DB) - 3:28.18

Considering the huge buffer of privateers entering, there aren't any real surprises regarding the drivers failing to make the grid, but it's still a rare occasiona when the likes of Guelfi, Salvadori, Behra, Bianchi or Gerini make a race grid. While Brabham takes his sixth career pole position, Mike Hawthorn and Stirling Moss surprise the crowd by completing the front row. Brabham is now in a perfect position to seal a second world title as Desmond Titterington is stranded in elventh place.

[dr-baker]

Thank you to Cooper for the loan of the Cooper Climax to de Filippis. Here's hoping for a good race.

[Nessafox]

Thank you to Cooper for the loan of the Cooper Climax to de Filippis. Here's hoping for a good race.

You realise that you owe it to me to become my 'pet team' I expect things in return next year, even if that means you'll get bankrupt. But also thanks to Climax for helping out a bit

[dr-baker]

Thank you to Cooper for the loan of the Cooper Climax to de Filippis. Here's hoping for a good race.

You realise that you owe it to me to become my 'pet team' I expect things in return next year, even if that means you'll get bankrupt. But also thanks to Climax for helping out a bit

Oh, don't worry. I intend to go bankrupt, as I want to somehow bring Lola into the sport in 1958/59/60 (if this championship gets that far!). (Might possibly get a driver/manufacturer to commission a car from the young, upstart company, then encourage Lola to get on with a works entry.)

[V8fan12]

BRM will take an engine upgrade if possible

[tommykl]

As I start uni again this Monday, the race may take a short while to run, so do bear with me. It should be completed at some point during the week. In the meantime, the calendar vote is not stopping!

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium
5. Netherlands
6. Ireland
7. Britain

[tommykl]

And here is race performance for Monza.

Volonterio 21
Hamilton 19
Musso 18
Davison 18
de Filippis 15
González 13
Hawthorn 13
Gerini 11
Maglioli 9
Gaze 6
Titterington 2
Gregory 2
Bira 1
Guelfi 1
Bonnier 1
Bianchi 1
Marimón 0
Thirion 0
Hampshire 0
Castellotti -3
Manzon -3
Salvadori -4
Cabianca -5
Collins -6
Ruttman -6
Behra -7
Brabham -8
Lewis-Evans -9
Serafini -11
Perdisa -11
Moss -12
Sanesi -15
Fangio -27
Russell -28

Due to the especially late running date and set-up issues that follow, only a maximum of nine cars will finish this race. There will be 5 engine failures, two C1 crashes and one C5 crash.

[tommykl]

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium
5. Netherlands
6. Ireland
7. Britain
8. Germany

Voting's almost done, folks!

[tommykl]

October 28th 1956, Italian Grand Prix

From the very beginning, it was clear that this would be a race of attrition, as Fangio and Guelfi's clutches failed on the grid. Moss got the best start and led the first lap from Bira, Brabham, Volonterio, Hawthorn and Gaze, whose terrific start gained him seven positions. Gordini's day was ended in a weird incident in which Sanesi, Bonnier and Castellotti all pulled into the pits with overheating issues, apparently caused by fallen leaves entering the cars! On lap 4, Robert Manzon's engine caught fire in spectacular fashion on the front straight, prompting Duncan Hamilton to spin out on the oil, reducing the field to 27 drivers. On the fifth lap, Brabham took the lead from Moss, retaking the upper hand in the title fight just as Stuart Lewis-Evans retired from the race with another engine failure.

A fight for the lead developed between Brabham, Hawthorn, Volonterio and Moss, with Titterington catching up and Gaze just behind. On lap 10, another string of retirements occurred, with Gregory suffering from similar heat issues to the Gordinis, Jim Russell from a gearbox failure and Gilberte Thirion from an oil leak. On lap 14, though, the entire course of the race (and indeed the championship) changed, as Jack Brabham's front-right suspension snapped at Lesmo, temporarily leaving an O.S.C.A. 1-2-3, Volonterio leading González and Moss, with Hawthorn in fourth place. Tony Gaze, in contention for points, pulled up by the trackside with a clutch failure.

Volonterio kept the lead as González, Hawthorn and Moss fought over second place. Hawthorn won that fight and began to attack Volonterio's lead. Further back, Bira's transmission failed, as did Gerini's gearbox. Hawthorn took the lead on lap 24. That same lap, Davison and de Filippis also retired due to leaf-based overheating, while Dorino Serafini had a serious accident, spinning at Curva Grande and getting pitched into a barrell-roll. He was thrown out of the car and was taken to hospital, conscious. On the next lap, Bianchi retired, having run out of fuel due to a leak.

Crucially for the championship race, Titterington's engine failed on lap 26, leaving Moss as the only credible contender still in the running, in fifth position. Salvadori also retired with a puncture. Cabianca's gearbox failed on the following lap, leaving just 12 drivers in the race. They were reduced to ten as Collins and Maglioli had simultaneous engine failures just five laps from the end! Hawthorn, despite his best defensive efforts, capitulated to Volonterio and González with two laps remaining, but managed to get a good run in the final lap. He powered past González at the exit of the oval section and passed Volonterio at Lesmo. Volonterio got a tow and retook the lead on the run to Vialone, but Hawthorn then got the slipstream. He positioned his car expertly in the Parabolica, getting the better exit and barely edging Volonterio to take his first F1 victory.

Volonterio held on for his second podium, with González third. Moss came fourth to keep his championship hopes theoretically alive. Troy Ruttman, in a safe fifth position, had a stupid spin on the final lap, but was still classified in fifth. Luigi Musso was free to come home in sixth position to score the first point for Scuderia Centro Sud. Marimón, Hampshire, Behra and Perdisa completed the finishers.

1. Mike Hawthorn (B.C.M.A.) 1:40:34.91
2. Ottorino Volonterio (O.S.C.A.) +0.07
3. José Froilán González (O.S.C.A.) +0.87
4. Stirling Moss (O.S.C.A.) +1:38.97
5. Troy Ruttman (O.S.C.A.) +1 lap/Spin
6. Luigi Musso (Lancia) +1 lap
7. Onofre Marimón (O.S.C.A.) +2 laps
8. David Hampshire (Vanwall) +2 laps
9. Jean Behra (O.S.C.A.) +2 laps
10. Cesare Perdisa (AAC) +3 laps
Ret. Peter Collins (B.C.M.A.) +5 laps/Engine
Ret. Umberto Maglioli (Ferrari) +5 laps/Engine
Ret. Desmond Titterington (Lancia) +10 laps/Engine
Ret. Giulio Cabianca (Ferrari) +10 laps/Gearbox
Ret. Roy Salvadori (Vanwall-O.S.C.A.) +11 laps/Puncture
Ret. Lex Davison (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) +12 laps/Overheating
Ret. Lucien Bianchi (Cooper-Maserati) +12 laps/Out of fuel
Ret. B. Bira (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) +13 laps/Transmission
Ret. Maria Teresa de Filippis (Cooper-Climax) +13 laps/Overheating
Ret. Dorino Serafini (Ferrari) +13 laps/Accident
Ret. Gerino Gerini (Ferrari) +14 laps/Gearbox
Ret. Jack Brabham (Gordini) +22 laps/Suspension
Ret. Tony Gaze (Ferrari) +22 laps/Clutch
Ret. Masten Gregory (Lotus-B.C.M.A.) +26 laps/Overheating
Ret. Gilberte Thirion (O.S.C.A.-Hernandez) +26 laps/Oil leak
Ret. Jim Russell (Vanwall) +26 laps/Gearbox
Ret. Stuart Lewis-Evans (B.C.M.A.) +31 laps/Engine
Ret. Robert Manzon (O.S.C.A.) +32 laps/Engine
Ret. Duncan Hamilton (Lancia) +32 laps/Spin
Ret. Consalvo Sanesi (Gordini) +33 laps/Overheating
Ret. Jo Bonnier (Gordini) +33 laps/Overheating
Ret. Eugenio Castellotti (Gordini) +33 laps/Overheating
Ret. Juan Manuel Fangio (Ferrari) +35 laps/Clutch
Ret. André Guelfi (O.S.C.A.) +35 laps/Clutch

Fastest lap: Jack Brabham (Gordini) - 2:45.32

Championship standings
Drivers
1. Jack Brabham - 27
2. Desmond Titterington - 22 (2 wins)
3. Stirling Moss - 22 (1 win)
4. B. Bira - 16
5. Consalvo Sanesi - 13 (1 win)
6. Ottorino Volonterio - 13 (2 2nds)
7. Tony Brooks - 12 (1 win)
8. José Froilán González - 12 (2 3rds)
9. Peter Collins - 10
10. Mike Hawthorn - 9
11. Duncan Hamilton - 8 (2 4ths)
12. Eugenio Castellotti - 7 (1 2nd)
13. Juan Manuel Fangio - 7 (1 3rd, 1 5th, 1 6th, 1 8th)
14. Tony Gaze - 7 (1 3rd, 1 5th, 1 6th, 3 Rets)
15. Umberto Maglioli - 6 (1 2nd, 6 Rets)
16. Heinz Melkus - 6 (1 2nd)
17. Maurice Trintignant - 5
18. Paul Frère - 4
19. Peter Whitehead - 3 (1 4th, 1 7th)
20. Paco Godia - 3 (1 4th, 5 Rets)
21. Robert Manzon - 3 (1 4th, 2 Rets)
22. Vasiliy Kuznetzov - 3 (1 4th, 1 DNQ)
23. Troy Ruttman - 2
24. Jo Bonnier - 1 (1 6th, 1 11th)
25. Luigi Musso - 1 (1 6th, 1 DNQ)

Constructors
1. Gordini - 38
2. O.S.C.A. - 37
3. B.C.M.A. - 31
4. Lancia - 26
5. Lotus-B.C.M.A. - 19 (2 2nds)
6. Ferrari - 19 (1 2nd)
7. Hernandez - 6
8. BRM - 4
9. GAZ - 3

Entrants
1. Alexander Racing Team-Gordini - 38
2. Officine Specializzate Costruzione Automobili - 37
3. British Commonwealth Motorsport Association - 31
4. Irish Racing Cars - 25
5. Team Lotus - 19 (2 2nds)
6. Scuderia Ferrari - 19 (1 2nd)
7. Escuderia Hernandez - 6
8. British Racing Motors - 4
9. State Committee for Sports and Body Culture of USSR - 3
10. Scuderia Centro Sud - 1

As always, the post-race report will be up in the near future.

[tommykl]

We actually have a tie for this round of voting. Rather than put it to an additional vote, because I don't want to spend much more time on this, I'll make an executive decision. It's my series, after all.

1. Morocco
2. Monaco
3. France
4. Belgium
5. Netherlands
6. Ireland
7. Britain
8. Germany
9. Italy

[Aislabie]

Please may I also propose some slightly tighter rules on entries for next season? When some of the predominant constructors are able to enter six, seven or eight cars (either directly or through privateers) it makes it all the more difficult for smaller teams and constructors to make their mark.

[DemocalypseNow]

Please may I also propose some slightly tighter rules on entries for next season? When some of the predominant constructors are able to enter six, seven or eight cars (either directly or through privateers) it makes it all the more difficult for smaller teams and constructors to make their mark.

We already have a wider breadth of success for various teams in the series than in real life Formula 1. In the real 1956 season, Ferrari and Maserati works cars scored every podium position during the course of the season, with three exceptions;

1. The Argentine GP, where Mike Hawthorn came third in a Owen Racing Organisation entered Maserati 250F. There were only 13 entries, of which 6 finishes, with Hawthorn two laps down
2. The Italian GP, where Ron Flockhart finished 3rd in a Connaught-Alta
3. The Indy 500, for obvious reasons

So only one race all season aside form the 500 where anything other than a Ferrari or Maserati was on the podium. Meanwhile, in Alt F1, we've had podiums from Gordini, OSCA, Lancia, BCMA, Lotus, Ferrari, Hernandez and BRM.

I think you're seeing a problem where there isn't one.

[tommykl]

Post-race report
Injuries
Dorino Serafini sustained a broken right arm in his accident during the Italian Grand Prix. He will be able to drive again in time for the 1957 season.

Damages
Ruttman's chassis (F156A chassis 8) - £1 895
Collins' engine (A/AS Griffin engine 5) - £19 025
Maglioli's engine (RS560 engine 5) - £12 062
Titterington's engine (DS50 engine 1) - £7 017
Serafini's chassis (R560 chassis 8) - £25 946
Lewis-Evans' engine (A/AS Griffin engine 2) - £14 381
Manzon's engine (1500S-56 engine 8) - £5 549
Hamilton's chassis (D50 chassis 4) - £1 385

Prize money (distance)
Mike Hawthorn - £2 000
Ottorino Volonterio - £2 000
José Froilán González - £2 000
Stirling Moss - £2 000
Troy Ruttman - £1 971
Luigi Musso - £1 971
Onofre Marimón - £1 943
David Hampshire - £1 943
Jean Behra - £1 943
Cesare Perdisa - £1 914
Peter Collins - £1 857
Umberto Maglioli - £1 857
Desmond Titterington - £1 714
Giulio Cabianca - £1 714
Roy Salvadori - £1 686
Lex Davison - £1 657
Lucien Bianchi - £1 657
B. Bira - £1 629
Maria Teresa de Filippis - £1 629
Dorino Serafini - £1 629
Gerino Gerini - £1 600
Jack Brabham - £1 371
Tony Gaze - £1 371
Masten Gregory - £1 257
Gilberte Thirion - £1 257
Jim Russell - £1 257
Stuart Lewis-Evans - £1 114
Robert Manzon - £1 086
Duncan Hamilton - £1 086
Consalvo Sanesi - £1 057
Jo Bonnier - £1 057
Eugenio Castellotti - £1 057
Juan Manuel Fangio - £1 000
André Guelfi - £1 000
Elie Bayol - £500
Helm Glöckler - £500
Paul Frère - £500
Luigi Piotti - £500
Piero Scotti - £500
Ron Flockhart - £500
Berardo Taraschi - £500
Giorgio Becucci - £500
René Bonnet - £500

Prize money (position)
Mike Hawthorn - £26 000
Ottorino Volonterio - £21 250
José Froilán González - £16 500
Stirling Moss - £11 750
Troy Ruttman - £9 000
Luigi Musso - £6 250
Onofre Marimón - £5 500
David Hampshire - £4 750
Jean Behra - £4 000
Cesare Perdisa - £3 250
Jack Brabham - £3 000
Peter Collins - £2 500
Umberto Maglioli - £2 250
Desmond Titterington - £2 000
Giulio Cabianca - £1 750
Roy Salvadori - £1 500
Lex Davison - £1 250
Lucien Bianchi - £1 000
B. Bira - £750
Maria Teresa de Filippis - £500
Dorino Serafini - £250

Budgets updated.

[DemocalypseNow]

Scuderia Ferrari shall scrap RS560 engine 5 and AAC 555 chassis 4.

[pi314159]

OSCA will repair the damage to Manzon's engine and Ruttman's chassis.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Titterington Announces Retirement from Motor Car Racing

IRC Grand Prix racing driver Desmond Titterington has today made the shock announcement of his retirement from motor racing effective immediately, this coming despite the fact that he still has a chance of claiming the World Drivers' Championship in the final round in Thailand two months hence.

Titterington himself was unavailable for comment, but IRC team manager Cathal Byrne came forward with the following statement: "Des has not been as focused as he usually is in recent races. Ever since the horrible accidents at Dundrod last year and especially since the tragedy in Edinburgh he hasn't been the same. He came to me after Monza and told me that his heart just wasn't in it anymore, that he now had a family to think about and that his life was more important than a mere title and, I must admit, he is right."

"Des has left an indelible mark on Grand Prix racing and upon the IRC team. Without him we could not dream of the success we have achieved in our short time in Formula 1; we wish him the very best in life."

[Nessafox]

Please may I also propose some slightly tighter rules on entries for next season? When some of the predominant constructors are able to enter six, seven or eight cars (either directly or through privateers) it makes it all the more difficult for smaller teams and constructors to make their mark.

We already have a wider breadth of success for various teams in the series than in real life Formula 1. In the real 1956 season, Ferrari and Maserati works cars scored every podium position during the course of the season, with three exceptions;

1. The Argentine GP, where Mike Hawthorn came third in a Owen Racing Organisation entered Maserati 250F. There were only 13 entries, of which 6 finishes, with Hawthorn two laps down
2. The Italian GP, where Ron Flockhart finished 3rd in a Connaught-Alta
3. The Indy 500, for obvious reasons

So only one race all season aside form the 500 where anything other than a Ferrari or Maserati was on the podium. Meanwhile, in Alt F1, we've had podiums from Gordini, OSCA, Lancia, BCMA, Lotus, Ferrari, Hernandez and BRM.

I think you're seeing a problem where there isn't one.

In real life, there were simply less works cars, and thus decent privateers had a better chance of qualifying. Though this season things were a little more normal than last year. I think the main issue is the design/build cost, which means that investing much still means you can DNQ if you don't get good drivers. That system needs to be reworked, so more teams will design average cars. As far as i understood, Tommy was actually aware of this issue and has been pondering about it. We'll see if he comes up with an alternative he thinks that works. If not, we'll continue as it is. But it should be made sure one manager can not be involved in more than one works team or major privateer at the same time. I see no harm in one-off entries though. But it seems Tommy's been working on that as well.
Pretending 'nothing is wrong' is clearly ignoring the unrealisticly large grid sizes (which the smaller teams can not be blamed for) and the unrealistic amount of privateers running good cars.
Perhaps the prize money system needs a rebalancing as well, though i have no good suggestions about that.
Perhaps we should finally consider gentelman drivers actually fulfilling their role as gentleman drivers...Now we have a climate that prevents regular teams from running obscure local drivers, except for the rich teams who can afford it. But that is opposite logic than real life.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

...the unrealistic amount of privateers running good cars...

What was the Maserati 250F, then, if not a good car?

[Nessafox]

...the unrealistic amount of privateers running good cars...

What was the Maserati 250F, then, if not a good car?

I was writing a rant, but i decided that was not a good idea after all, as it would have ruined this beautiful thread.
Still i find it unnecessairy of Biscione to tell aislabie he's seeing things that aren't there when the things he mentioned have been an issue for years now. And no, i do not hate Biscione.
You guys have your opinions, but frankly, they don't make any sense. Aislabie has a valid point of concern.
I do count on TommyKl to show a bit more balls towards influential people in here in the future. I do realise some things he decided were favourably for me sometimes, but he has to stop to try to please everyone and find a balance beweent 1) realism and 2) the Rejects spirit.

[Ataxia]

I find it interesting that someone wasting their time and resources trying to get people to buy into his Ponzi scheme is now whinging that he doesn't have the chance to be successful because "the grid is too big".

There's a big spread of results. Everybody has the opportunity to perform if they make an effort. You can't just sit and ask for handouts, or for wings to be clipped, just because things aren't going your way.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I'm going to say this now: Anyone who chose to run a Ferrari 'B-team' in this series really screwed themselves out of the fun of running a truly independent effort.

The only team that has any proxy entries is Ferrari with Adriatica and Reatherson; all the other privateers simply chose a car from a manufacturer with no real strings attached vis-à-vis driver choices, which, you know, is how it generally happened in real life.

Manufacturer entries are on average three cars per race, which, again, is fairly par for the course in the fifties, with only Ferrari (in what has been admitted to be a big gamble), Gordini (only in the interests of securing the championship and only in recent races) and OSCA (four, as opposed to three, cars) going beyond that.

Yes, the entry list is a little too big when you compare it with real-life F1 of the era, but it's shrunk a lot in comparison with previous seasons where there was pre-qualifying in just about every race. Also, almost every privateer outfit has managed to qualify for a race this season; most of these have done it regularly.

I do agree with the issues regarding design/build costs, but I hold a different view: I think it should be possible to produce a top-tier car at a low design cost (encouraging the soon-to-emerge garagistes, if you will), albeit with a wider RNG range to balance it out somewhat.

The only other (unrelated) issue I can think of is the nigh-unrestricted freedom with which people can vote for the calendar. This year the Indy 500 almost made it, which makes no sense when looking at the direction of the series; the Moroccan Grand Prix is being held at Anfa instead of the built-for-F1 Ain-Diab; Watkins Glen almost became a mid-season round, which makes no sense whatsoever for the time, as most drivers would be far too busy racing in other European events; and Spa almost missed the cut (although that's partly my fault for flat-out forgetting to vote for it for a while). Although I do believe something is being done about calendar voting, (I hope, the previously held discussion in the chat never really ended with a decision, IIRC), so never mind perhaps?

[Nessafox]

I find it interesting that someone wasting their time and resources trying to get people to buy into his Ponzi scheme is now whinging that he doesn't have the chance to be successful because "the grid is too big".

There's a big spread of results. Everybody has the opportunity to perform if they make an effort. You can't just sit and ask for handouts, or for wings to be clipped, just because things aren't going your way.

If you're trying to play it personal and accuse me of a ponzi scheme, then please let the personal discussion happen in private messages. Theres a lot that i could accuse you of, but i won't do it publicly. I owe you a big apology and you know it.

I want to make some points clear. And there's a long post coming, so i'll write it in smaller font so it takes less space and people who've got nothing to do with the discussion can skip it more easily.
1) it was never a ponzi scheme, those knowing the details know this very well. I saved Maserati (see that their results are improving, right?), i keep brunel afloat (also because Dr. Baker is a nice guy who i had to defend earlier in this forum for receiving criticism that made no sense whatsoever), and those aussies getting bankrupt was in all fairness their own fault. ENB didn't get bankrupt either, i just decided quitting to stubbornly stick to the rubbish Belgian drivers and get 'down to business' with a works team because i believed in my system and judging by this years results, it's finally showing its potential. Why is it working? Because i got lucky with the driver rng, that's why. And because i could negiotiate a good deal with Climax. But negiotating isn't cheating, or will you tell me you never negotiated a deal in your life before? But i also see how other teams, the likes of BRM, Connaught, Vanwall, Bentley, etc. fail or failed to make results despite all of them having good material at their disposal. Yes, this year the results are improved because some managers stick to the gentlemans agreement to not field too many cars. But some don't, and you're gonna tell me aislabie had no right to complain about that? Seriously?
Is it that wrong to ask for the system to be reconsidered? When you know, people agree with me?

2) How often do i need to repeat that i'm not bitter about my own results, but am speaking for other members as well. Yes, we got in an argument before (was it F3 if i'm not mistaken? i forgot what it was about though?) and i once complained at pi's F1 championship as well because the budgets were simply not updated (but he admitted his mistake and corrected it, problem solved!). This is however not a reason to take things personal and portray me as someone who only complains about being unsuccesful. Most of my lack of succes in series is by a lack of effort and i always admit that. But in here, you can not blame me for a lack of effort. I've spend hours calculating the Cooper idea, i promise you. Insinuating i'm lazy and not doing an effort whilst often i've spend hours trying to get things right. Insinuating i'm just trying to trick other teams into my scheme for survival? If Simtek didn't quit the system, he'd have known that is wasn't that bad. But he had a better opportunity, and can you blame him, or for that matter, me, for that? Get your facts straight before you accuse somebody.
Also please stop claiming nobody agrees with me. Most people aren't vocal because they feel it's not worh it going against you and Biscione, who both are not easy to discuss with. But you know a lot of people actually do agree with me. That's why i often defend people who got attacked by someone (admin, mod, regular forumites) for no reason. Neverthless, Biscione didn't attack me this time, and if he apologises to Aislabie, then its up to them to decide if it's fine. Simteks remark was not necessairy, but in essence he didn't do anything wrong. So i deleted my rant against them. I will not show the same respect for you. It's not the first time you play it personal against me for no particular reason.

You guys know as much as anyone else that i've been vital in keeping this forum together by defending people when necessairy, and criticising when necessairy. Of course the forum will survive without me, but it's about time you people are starting to acknowledge my efforts and time i've spent in here. But here you are, accusing me that i'm 'wasting my time'. If you consider keeping your forum together is a waste of time, then why are you even moderating? Seriously, keep your personal feuds aside at least for once.
And yeah, i know you guys are the ones who make the software run, who make the articles, and you know i praise that stuff as well. But apparently you're still bitter that i criticised the satire pieces?
Yeah i've been becoming a sort of workers union representative for this forum. And yeah, i will protest if people get treated unfairly by either moderators or fellow forumites. (have you also noticed i never once got into a fight with some other moderators like Nuppiz? Well, ask him how he manages to make me respect him. Or are you going to insinuate he's not doing his job properly?)

Well sorry TommyKL,.. for ruining your thread, but i needed to say this. Simtek, i apologise for almost attacking you, you just had a different opinion. Biscione, i really really do not hate you, but sometimes i think you got a bit too overconfident in your comments towards people who are really just trying to improve things. Please take their concerns more serious. Even if they sound stupid to you, they might actually have a point.
Keep in mind that i will defend everyone that i think needs to be defended.

Ataxia, please answer in a PM if you need to talk to me about certain personal irritations you have with me, okay?

[Bobby Doorknobs]

1) it was never a ponzi scheme, those knowing the details know this very well. I saved Maserati (see that their results are improving, right?), i keep brunel afloat (also because Dr. Baker is a nice guy who i had to defend earlier in this forum for receiving criticism that made no sense whatsoever), and those aussies getting bankrupt was in all fairness their own fault. ENB didn't get bankrupt either, i just decided quitting to stubbornly stick to the rubbish Belgian drivers and get 'down to business' with a works team because i believed in my system and judging by this years results, it's finally showing its potential. Why is it working? Because i got lucky with the driver rng, that's why. And because i could negiotiate a good deal with Climax. But negiotating isn't cheating, or will you tell me you never negotiated a deal in your life before? But i also see how other teams, the likes of BRM, Connaught, Vanwall, Bentley, etc. fail or failed to make results despite all of them having good material at their disposal. Yes, this year the results are improved because some managers stick to the gentlemans agreement to not field too many cars. But some don't, and you're gonna tell me aislabie had no right to complain about that? Seriously?
Is it that wrong to ask for the system to be reconsidered? When you know, people agree with me?

The question remains though: Is Maserati really saved, or is it just on life support? Their budget is still on a shoestring and (adopting the realism perspective) it seems totally asinine for them to run a chassis built by some foreign constructor. Fine if it's a privateer effort, but Maserati is an organisation that prides itself on in-house engineering. As for the material at the disposal of the constructors you mentioned, BRM only have a good engine and have squandered their resources on ex-works Ferraris (I can't remember the level of investment that went into the chassis); Connaught, fair enough, they were totally screwed by RNG and, like I said, I favour a different system; Vanwall don't have top-tier equipment, but they have great potential to change that next year; Bentley... I wasn't around when they were and I'm not going to look into that now.

Also please stop claiming nobody agrees with me. Most people aren't vocal because they feel it's not worh it going against you and Biscione, who both are not easy to discuss with. But you know a lot of people actually do agree with me. That's why i often defend people who got attacked by someone (admin, mod, regular forumites) for no reason. Neverthless, Biscione didn't attack me this time, and if he apologises to Aislabie, then its up to them to decide if it's fine. Simteks remark was not necessairy, but in essence he didn't do anything wrong. So i deleted my rant against them. I will not show the same respect for you. It's not the first time you play it personal against me for no particular reason.

I'm going to be honest, and I apologise if I'm being blunt: I don't see a lot of people who agree with you; while I have no doubt that there are some, I wouldn't go so far as to say many do.

You guys know as much as anyone else that i've been vital in keeping this forum together by defending people when necessairy, and criticising when necessairy. Of course the forum will survive without me, but it's about time you people are starting to acknowledge my efforts and time i've spent in here. But here you are, accusing me that i'm 'wasting my time'. If you consider keeping your forum together is a waste of time, then why are you even moderating? Seriously, keep your personal feuds aside at least for once.
And yeah, i know you guys are the ones who make the software run, who make the articles, and you know i praise that stuff as well. But apparently you're still bitter that i criticised the satire pieces?
Yeah i've been becoming a sort of workers union representative for this forum. And yeah, i will protest if people get treated unfairly by either moderators or fellow forumites. (have you also noticed i never once got into a fight with some other moderators like Nuppiz? Well, ask him how he manages to make me respect him. Or are you going to insinuate he's not doing his job properly?)

Again, being blunt: There is too much presumption on your part here for this to be taken in any way seriously, true or false (I feel in no position to determine either way).

Simtek, i apologise for almost attacking you, you just had a different opinion. Biscione, i really really do not hate you, but sometimes i think you got a bit too overconfident in your comments towards people who are really just trying to improve things. Please take their concerns more serious. Even if they sound stupid to you, they might actually have a point.
Keep in mind that i will defend everyone that i think needs to be defended.

Ataxia, please answer in a PM if you need to talk to me about certain personal irritations you have with me, okay?

Okay, this I can take seriously; the apology is accepted (I saw nothing, anyway ), although I don't think there was anything particularly untoward in what Biscione said to Aislabie in this instance (though I don't speak for either).

I do agree though that there is a lot of nastiness around here in general. The ASMF is about creating a (somewhat) realistic alternate universe, while the 18MDMF is the place for the really "out there" stuff, but obviously there's no point in having the former if there's a hostile environment. To paraphrase Peep Show, we don't need to teach the world to sing, whereas MyF1Dream, South Africa, Benetton Formula, you've got to say "fair enough". That feels shoehorned but I'll go with it and hope the point is made. Even if the poster is mind-numbingly stupid and can't read the rules, I don't feel "shouting" at them or making personal insults is the right way to do it; it makes things awkward for everybody else.

If there is anything further to add, I would suggest putting it here to avoid the further derailment of this thread.

[Nessafox]

If there is anything further to add, I would suggest putting it here to avoid the further derailment of this thread.

I will do that. I still hope you reconsider your statement of 'not being able to take that seriously' though.

[Ataxia]

No personal criticisms here from my end, and I don't think anything I wrote suggested that was the case. I don't know what's brought all of this on, and perhaps you're the one who needs to be talking to me about issues you have. There's an awful of conjecture here, to put it mildly.

[Aislabie]

Wow, I didn't expect this to blow up like it has, but allow me to build upon my point a little further.

First of all, I'm not looking for sympathy votes or anything - I know that the main reason H.A.R.T. is screwed is because I've mismanaged them. It's not a nice thing to face up to, but it's true. I dived in without properly researching what it was like to be a privateer team in the 1950s and absolutely copped it as a result. I can deal with that though.

It's also not a case of wanting to turn up and dominate straight away. One of the ideas I'm mulling over for next season is a Soviet works effort from Volga which would be utterly rejectful (and able to go on being so for some time thanks to the glorious investment of the United Soviet States of Russia).

It's also not a gripe against all of the successful constructors - props to them for managing to get out on top to be honest.

It's simply a case of wanting a slightly tighter grasp on things so that it's slightly easier to make it onto the grid if you're a privateer (because if there are 5 OSCAs, 5 Gordinis, 6 BCMAs/Lotuses and 8 Ferraris among those competing to get on a 26-car grid, then there's little chance for anyone else). Not that Bruce Halford should be storming to victory in a dodgy old Vanwall-Bentley, just that Mike Hawthorn should be able to get his BCMA onto the grid for his home Grand Prix.

I don't want unrealistically harsh limits on entries, but maybe three or four cars per entrant would do the trick? Capping it at four would only really hit Gordini and Ferrari, while three would also impact OSCA. Personally, and in the Reject spirit (that's a thing right?) I'd say three cars per entrant. As Gordini showed in France and IRC have shown all season, that's hardly going to stop a team being successful.

[Nessafox]

Wow, I didn't expect this to blow up like it has, but allow me to build upon my point a little further.

First of all, I'm not looking for sympathy votes or anything - I know that the main reason H.A.R.T. is screwed is because I've mismanaged them. It's not a nice thing to face up to, but it's true. I dived in without properly researching what it was like to be a privateer team in the 1950s and absolutely copped it as a result. I can deal with that though.

It's also not a case of wanting to turn up and dominate straight away. One of the ideas I'm mulling over for next season is a Soviet works effort from Volga which would be utterly rejectful (and able to go on being so for some time thanks to the glorious investment of the United Soviet States of Russia).

It's also not a gripe against all of the successful constructors - props to them for managing to get out on top to be honest.

It's simply a case of wanting a slightly tighter grasp on things so that it's slightly easier to make it onto the grid if you're a privateer (because if there are 5 OSCAs, 5 Gordinis, 6 BCMAs/Lotuses and 8 Ferraris among those competing to get on a 26-car grid, then there's little chance for anyone else). Not that Bruce Halford should be storming to victory in a dodgy old Vanwall-Bentley, just that Mike Hawthorn should be able to get his BCMA onto the grid for his home Grand Prix.

I don't want unrealistically harsh limits on entries, but maybe three or four cars per entrant would do the trick? Capping it at four would only really hit Gordini and Ferrari, while three would also impact OSCA. Personally, and in the Reject spirit (that's a thing right?) I'd say three cars per entrant. As Gordini showed in France and IRC have shown all season, that's hardly going to stop a team being successful.

The thing is, that you're just repeating the concerns that TommyKL himself stated in the past. He was just naive in thinking that a gentlemans agreement would solve things. I can't see how saying he should have more balls, thus being more strict, is disrespecting TommyKL's magnificent work. Claiming you're seeing problems that aren't there, even if the organiser himself has expressed them is just needlessly offensive. Claiming that nobody agrees when the organiser himself partially agrees is just needlessly offensive.

Sorry if you feel embarrassed by my need to defend you.

[DemocalypseNow]

Given it would be prohibitively expensive for Adriatica to enter the Thai Grand Prix - with a remaining budget that would empty their accounts by simply sending a single car there - Scuderia Ferrari will take its loaned equipment to Adriatica back to Maranello. The exception is R560 chassis 8, which will be scrapped.

[tommykl]

Breaking news

The United Kingdom, France and Israel have invaded the Sinai peninsula in order to capture the Suez Canal. The dubious initiative was stopped and a ceasefire agreed after a few days, but the consequences have been wide. Political tensions remain high, and the world economy has taken a hit. In protest to the invasion, many Arabic nations have raised the price of petrol, prompting the rationing of fuel in the United Kingdom and raising the cost of travel massively.

This has also had repercussions in Formula One, of course, as the cost of traveling to the season-ending Thai Grand Prix in Bangkok has risen dramatically, causing many teams to consider abandoning their plans of attending the race. Concerned by this, the Thai royal family have arranged for the grid quality to be assured by partially funding the transport of the cars to and from Bangkok via cargo ship.

Any car that is entered for the Thai Grand Prix will board the ship in Genoa and be taken to Bangkok over the course of a few weeks, arriving a week before the race. Following the race and any celebrations, the cars will be returned to Genoa. Transport for one car (plus all team members associated) will cost £15 000 per car for the return trip, although teams are solely responsible for costs to and from the cargo ship in Genoa. The Thai organisers hope to recoup this money from the ticket sales, as many Thai people are excited to see Prince Birabongse (otherwise known to Western audiences as B. Bira) in action on the circuit.

All that said...

I Grand Prix of Thailand - Entry list
1. Ottorino Volonterio (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 5, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 4
2. Stirling Moss (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 6, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 5
3. José Froilán González (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 7, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 6
4. Robert Manzon (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 8, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 7
5. Doug Steane (Douglas Steane) - Gordini Type 56 chassis 4, Gordini G258/A engine 5
6. Arsenio Laurel (Écurie Pinoy) - Gordini G-953 chassis 6, Gordini ART-004 engine 6
7. B. Bira (Team Lotus) - Lotus 10 chassis 1, B.C.M.A. A/AS Griffin 6
8. Masten Gregory (Team Lotus) - Lotus 10 chassis 5, B.C.M.A. A/AS Griffin 7
9. Lex Davison (Team Lotus) - Lotus 10 chassis 3, B.C.M.A. A/AS Griffin 8
10. Vasiliy Kuznetzov (State Committee for Sports and Body Culture of USSR) - GAZ OK01 chassis 1, GAZ M650 engine 1
11. Eduardo de Carvalho (Theodore Yip) - Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 11, Jaguar JFE-2 engine 1
12. Robert Richie (Theodore Yip) - Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 12, Jaguar JFE-2 engine 16
13. Jack Brabham (Alexander Racing Team-Gordini) - Gordini Type 56 chassis 1, Gordini G258/A engine 1
14. Consalvo Sanesi (Alexander Racing Team-Gordini) - Gordini Type 56 chassis 2, Gordini G258/A engine 2
15. Onofre Marimón (Asso di Fiori) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 4, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 3
16. Juan Galvez (Juan Galvez) - Hernandez Tipo 56 chassis 1, Hernandez H/258A engine 1
17. Tony Gaze (F.A.O. Gaze) - Ferrari R560 chassis 4, Ferrari RS560 engine 6
18. Umberto Maglioli (Scuderia Ferrari) - Ferrari R560 chassis 3, Ferrari RS560 engine 8
19. John Riseley-Prichard (Sir Jeremy Boles) - Cooper T40 chassis 2, DB 84-1 engine 1
20. Ken Wharton (Reatherson Racing Developments) - Ferrari R560 chassis 6, Ferrari RS560 engine 9
21. Maria Teresa de Filippis (BRUNEL) - O.S.C.A. F154 chassis 4, Porsche 755 engine 5
22. Giulio Cabianca (Reatherson Racing Developments) - Ferrari R560 chassis 5, Ferrari RS560 engine 4
23. Bruce Halford (Halford Auto Racing Team) - Vanwall VW55 chassis 2, Bentley 16VL-1 engine 1
24. Ken Kavanagh (Halford Auto Racing Team) - Vanwall VW56 chassis 4, Vanwall 254 engine 2

[pi314159]

Despite the considerable cost, OSCA will run four cars at Bangkok:

Ottorino Volonterio (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 5, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 4
Stirling Moss (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 6, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 5
José Froilán González (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 7, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 6
Robert Manzon (O.S.C.A.) - O.S.C.A. F156A chassis 8, O.S.C.A. 1500S-56 engine 7

All damage sustained in the Italian Grand Prix will be repaired.

[Normal32]

I will enter this:

Doug Steane - Gordini Type 56 number 4, Gordini G258/A number 5

[Nessafox]

As mentioned before, and on the condition that this guy gets a superlicence:

Arsenio Laurel - Privateer (Écurie Pinoy) - Gordini G-953 chassis 6, Gordini ART-004 engine 6

[TomWazzleshaw]

Team Lotus entries for Thailand:

B. Bira - Lotus 10 1 - BCMA A/AS 6
Masten Gregory - Lotus 10 5 - BCMA A/AS 7
Lex Davison - Lotus 10 3 - BCMA A/AS 8

Also, the State Committee for Sports and Body Culture of USSR will be making their return in Thailand, with the following entry:

Vasiliy Kuznetzov - GAZ OK01 1 - GAZ M650 1

Finally, famed Macau developer Teddy Yip will enter two cars of his own for the race, with details as follows:

Eduardo de Carvalho - Aston Martin AM-04 11 - Jaguar JFE-2 1
Robert Richie - Aston Martin AM-04 12 - Jaguar JFE-2 16

[Peteroli34]

As mentioned before, and on the condition that this guy gets a superlicence:

Arsenio Laurel - Privateer (Écurie Pinoy) - Gordini TBA
(i had re-read all the thread, or at least the posts from the Gordini manager, as i thought he mentioned which chassis and car i will be able to use, but somehow failed to find it), i will edit the post when i know for sure.

Yeah you can have Gordini G-953 chassis 6, Gordini ART-004 engine 6

Meanwhile Gordini are forced to make the trip to Thailand and will enter 2 cars.

Jack Brabham - Gordini Type 56 chassis 1, Gordini G258/A engine 1
Consalvo Sanesi - Gordini Type 56 chassis 2, Gordini G258/A engine 2