Reject of the Year - 2015

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girry
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Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by girry »

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It's hard to argue against McLaren-Honda this year. However, it will be fascinating to hear any arguments for the nomination of any other entity but the old pairing which re-united with major fanfare and two world class drivers - and would end up becoming the official butt of Formula One jokes anno 2015.

Or, even arguments for them. Whatever. Grand Prix Rejects will speak.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Nessafox »

McLaren Honda will defenitely get many nominations, so instead i nominate the Red Bull engine contract negotiations soap.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Salamander »

Renault put in a good showing for this by not really making any improvements over the off-season, then spending all year developing an engine that's worse than the one they already had.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by rachel1990 »

while Mclaren Honda is a definite contender for this award one had to remember that Honda was rubbish for the last couple of years that they were in f1 (2007, 2008) and Mclaren have been quite poor for the two previous seasons even with the best engine on the grid (mercedes) so add them both together and it equals rubbish and for me didn't surprise me.

However my reject of the year is Red Bull. Two years ago they dominated formula 1 and were possibly the most unlikable team on the grid. now here we are. No wins. 3 podiums . Gone down to 4th in the constructors. And an argument about engines that by the end left them without anyone wanting to help them and making them look like idiots. In the end no matter what engine they have in 2016 Red Bull Have learnt a valuable Lesson and Vettel left them at the right time.

(dis) Honorable mentions go to Kimi Raikkonen who could only manage 3 podiums and yet his teammate could get 3 wins (if only Bottas was cheaper) Marcus Ericsson who definitely proved this year he was here for the money, and of course the Pastor who even had a website set up for him this year about how many times he could crash.

Roll on 2016 and please let it be Hamilton vs Vettel!!
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Fetzie »

The way that Red Bull Racing team management was complaining publically about the Renault engine. They nearly pushed Renault back out of the sport (which would jeopardize more than just their own team for 2016), and generally conducted themselves like petulant teenagers that have been used to getting their own way for four years, only for somebody to stand up and say "no".

It wasn't just Christian Horner either. Dietrich Mateschitz threw his toys out of the pram so often, sulking publically about how he'd can the project if he couldn't get his way.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by DemocalypseNow »

This wrote:McLaren Honda will defenitely get many nominations, so instead i nominate the Red Bull engine contract negotiations soap.

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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by WeirdKerr »

I'm not going to nominate McLaren Honda ( I expected it to be worse...) instead I will nominate the stupid Engine place penalties that were MORE than the places available on the grid which also meant teams were being penalised for being unreliable
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

rachel1990 wrote:while Mclaren Honda is a definite contender for this award one had to remember that Honda was rubbish for the last couple of years that they were in f1 (2007, 2008) and Mclaren have been quite poor for the two previous seasons even with the best engine on the grid (mercedes) so add them both together and it equals rubbish and for me didn't surprise me.

I think it's important to remember that Honda did design the Brawn BGP 001, so saying they were rubbish from 2007 onwards is not entirely fair. Also, the main issues with the RA107 and RA108 were aerodynamic-, not engine-related. They actually built a decent V8 engine, and running a racing team is quite different to only building an engine. For that reason I don't see it as completely unsurprising that the Honda was poor this year. Additionally, using McLaren's previous two seasons as a yardstick for their performance this year is not reliable either - look at Williams' 2011 car vs. their 2012 car, for example.

As for my nomination, well, McLaren-Honda :P
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Dj_bereta »

3rd - Marcus Ericsson: Pretty bad start of the season with too many errors and losing precious points for Sauber. He improved during the season, but Sauber had a bad car again like in 2014. He is lucky to be with Sauber for another year.

2nd - Renault: The reliability problems still present. No progress at all in comparison with 2014 season. Red Bull struggled way more than last year, making the relationship with the French manufacturer worsening race-by-race until the Austrian team menaced leaving F1 because the engine.

1st - Mclaren Honda: An easy nomination. Two world champions and a engine that made Mclaren steamroll everyone between 88-89 season (and made Williams steamroll everyone in 86-87 as well, only losing in 86 due Mansell's shenanigans). A dream team... a dream team that failed so hard in this year. Magnussen can't even started his only race in this year because the engine blew up in the formation lap! Almost all points of the team in this year were in races with a lot of retirements and misfortunes from other drivers. Alonso is clearly frustrated to the point to expose this to the public, like the GP2 engine rant in Japan and the suntan in Brazil after his car broken again. A year to forget for Alonso, Button, Mclaren and Honda.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by mario »

Simtek wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:while Mclaren Honda is a definite contender for this award one had to remember that Honda was rubbish for the last couple of years that they were in f1 (2007, 2008) and Mclaren have been quite poor for the two previous seasons even with the best engine on the grid (mercedes) so add them both together and it equals rubbish and for me didn't surprise me.

I think it's important to remember that Honda did design the Brawn BGP 001, so saying they were rubbish from 2007 onwards is not entirely fair. Also, the main issues with the RA107 and RA108 were aerodynamic-, not engine-related. They actually built a decent V8 engine, and running a racing team is quite different to only building an engine. For that reason I don't see it as completely unsurprising that the Honda was poor this year. Additionally, using McLaren's previous two seasons as a yardstick for their performance this year is not reliable either - look at Williams' 2011 car vs. their 2012 car, for example.

As for my nomination, well, McLaren-Honda :P

Honda's engine was reasonably competitive to begin with, but it was one of the weaker engines towards the end of the V8 era - I am fairly sure that both Button and Barrichello commented that the Mercedes V8 was markedly better than Honda's, both in terms of peak power and in terms of drivability (I believe Rubens indicated that the Mercedes V8 had a wider usable power band than Honda's engine).

To be honest though, it's hard to look past McLaren-Honda, in part because a number of their issues were self inflicted - there has been an indication that McLaren forced Honda to rush their development after Ron cut his ties with Mercedes a year earlier than planned (McLaren's contract with Mercedes originally ran to 2015), whilst Honda's senior management in turn seem to have underestimated the resources required until far too late in the development cycle.

The team have lost a number of high profile sponsors and is being financially squeezed - losses have risen again to around $25 million in the last set of results, and the team have admitted that they are now likely to be facing a shortfall next year thanks to their poor results and loss of sponsors. Both drivers are clearly demoralised, there are rumours that Ron Dennis is losing the confidence of his backers as losses continue to mount at the team and whilst relations with Honda, although far more amicable than between Red Bull and Renault, are nevertheless strained over the unreliability and lack of progress Honda have made this season.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Aguaman »

For me McLaren Honda then after that the Red Bull & Renault saga and lastly SkyF1 trying to make mountains out of molehills and their conspiracy theories that really aren't fun ones.

So to review

1. McLaren-Honda
2. Red Bull's new engine search
3. SkyF1's coverage or just David Croft
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by AustralianStig »

Only two nominations for me:

1. McLaren-Honda, for obvious reasons
2. Sauber, for totally making a farce of driver contracts for this year - yes, I know it was sorted early in the season, but it was that bad.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by dinizintheoven »

Another nomination for the diabolical McLaren-Honda combination. Think about it: Red Bull were fourth, but that's still higher than they finished in 2007 and 2008 with cars designed by Adrian "I can do no wrong" Newey. McLaren were ninth, never looked like cracking either their reliability problems or the engine's horrific lack of speed, and were running at Caterham pace in Australia (to the point where, if Manor had actually made it onto the track that day, I'd have tipped them to be faster). When the fly-away races were done, I saw a genuine possibility of them going through the entire season without getting on the scoresheet. So they did in the end, but still got whipped by the surviving team who'd done exactly that in 2014 - Sauber, this time with Marcus Ericsson at the helm. I further suspect that being overtaken on numerous occasions by a 17-year-old rookie must have put more strain on Jenson's and Fernando's patience with their completely ludicrous situation than anything else around them, considering they both used to race against his dad.

Kevin Magnussen, like Sergio Pérez before him, will look back upon his release from McLaren as a lucky escape.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by CoopsII »

Yes, I'd have to say McLaren Honda. Has there ever been a more obvious slam-dunk? Maybe the Toyota operation as a whole but at least they were new to F1.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by AxelP800 »

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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

3. Kimi Räikkönen - Just because I can't think of anyone better for third place. He did some stupid stuff, at least.
2. Red Bull - Made that massive story and just ended up with the same people. It was entertaining, though.
1. McLaren-Honda - For McLaren to be so firmly last-but-Manor... just wow.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by More_Blue_Flags »

For me, it's got to be the McLaren-Honda debacle, although Red Bull's half-a***d brinksmanship with Renault (and all the other engine suppliers) was pretty laughable as well. Watching McLaren this year has been a bit reminiscent of watching the decline of Brabham in the mid-late '80s - historic team founded by a real racer (but now with an unlikable autocrat as the dominant team personality) with a relatively recent period of championship contention has been floundering with indifferent cars for a few years, and has just had a shocker of a season while adopting a unique technical approach (This season in particular has reminded me of watching the BT55 back in 1986 and wondering just what the hell happened to Brabham). I wonder how long before Ron Dennis jumps ship from a sinking McLaren and follows Bernie's example in trying to ruin F1?

As for my runner-up, Red Bull, I wonder if their failed efforts at blackmailing their way to another engine have made them finally realise that there is arguably one indispensable team in F1 at the most - and it's not the one owned by a fizzy drinks company?

Finally, it's worth noting that I can't think of a performance by an individual or even a back marker team that comes close to matching the rejectfulness of two of the best-funded teams on the grid.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by CoopsII »

More_Blue_Flags wrote:Finally, it's worth noting that I can't think of a performance by an individual or even a back marker team that comes close to matching the rejectfulness of two of the best-funded teams on the grid.

And that in itself is a good point when the sport is endlessly discussing cost-caps and spending restricitons. In F1 money doesn't always equal success.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by DanielPT »

As many others before me have greatly described there can be only one McLaren-Honda. Though they did improve and one should expect them to continue doing it, we will always have this season to savor how a great and supposedly very professional team can achieve some well deserved reject accolades!
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Miguel98 »

Let's start with the honourable mentions first...

Red Bull - A monkey could've done a better management than what Red Bull pulled this year. Complaining about Renault all year long, and trying to snub Mercedes to get engines, which didn't work, Ferrari offered them 2015 engines (which is better than the crap they have now), and they refused. God knows why they wanted to be involved with Honda... So, now, most likelly, they'll end up again with Renault for 2016, which means this all saga was nothing more than a publicity stunt, beeing ridicolous in the process. Adding to that, the car wasn't that good compared to last year (although it seemed to improve gradually over the year).

Renault - In the last couple of races, I was actually tempted to give them ROTY award. Because their 2015 engine was hardly an improvement of their 2014 engine. It was slow, unreliable, and it didn't really work out. When they tried to bring an update, it ended up beeing worse than the old engine! Absolutelly ridicolous performance, and hopefully they improve for 2016 so Red Bull, and especially, Ricciardo, can be more competitive.

But obviously ROTY must go to...

McLaren-Honda - What we saw by McLaren this year was just pure ridicolousness. Sorry Ataxia for saying that. McLaren had a deal with Mercedes for 2015, and Ron decided to end that deal and go for Honda one year earlier (god knows how Ron must be regretting that), which resulted in Honda developing the engine in less time than what they needed (remember Lola in 1997, and the pressure by Mastercard), and what we ended up was with the worst engine in the field, beeing just marginally faster than the 2014 Ferrari, with the worst reliability, despite having the best driver pairing in the whole field. Add to the shenanigans involving K-Mag and Vandoorne, with one realising this is a sinking ship and the other going to Super Formula for god knows what reason, and having still an uncertain future regarding how Fernando feels about the team and it's current status. While there we're improvements according to both drivers, we just couldn't see them. We have to expect for 2016 to see how quick they'll be, but if they want to keep the drivers happy, they better improve.

So podium is:
3rd - Red Bull
2nd - Renault
1st - McLaren-Honda
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Barbazza »

Red Bull for acting like babies all year. I keep hearing how the sport needs them - does it? It managed perfectly well before they arrived, and I would gladly never see Horner's smug face again.

Sky have also done the remarkable and gradually made their coverage more terrible throughout the year with the constant Lewis Hamilton conspiracy theories and love-ins with Toto Wolff (understandable to a point) and Horner (not) while ignoring Ferrari even when they had won races. If the BBC had any interest in covering F1, they could give Sky a kicking. Get rid of Lazenby, Damon and Bruno Senna pronto and remind Ted of how good he used to be a few years ago.

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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Barbazza wrote:Red Bull for acting like babies all year. I keep hearing how the sport needs them - does it?

It does - because right now the grid has reached that crucial 20 car line, which if it dips under, the grid will begin to look worryingly sparse. That, and over a thousand jobs are on the line.

The sport doesn't need Red Bull, but it needs those Milton Keynes and Faenza teams to stay in business. If we had lost those two at the end of the year, and the Renault buy-out deal fails and Lotus goes to the wall, suddenly you're left with a 14 car grid, which is nothing short of a complete disaster for the sport. To lose them suddenly and so close to the 2016 season wouldn't have left any of the teams enough time to prepare for running a third car. Operationally speaking that's a huge change for both the teams and FOM. Engine costs for teams like Sauber and Manor would multiply to the point they might end up out of business as well.

I don't even want to think about the MK/Faenza teams going to the wall. Red Bull need to stop playing dangerous mind games with the FIA, FOM, et al. They know they are crucial to the sport's survival, and they have been abusing that position this year. That's what really annoys me about their conduct, they're being malicious because they know they're in a position to leverage this fact.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by AdrianSutil »

I don't see why when one mentions RedBull leaving, Toro Rosso is also mentioned. Yes, yes, I know they are heavily connected, but surely TR have enough resources and support by now that they can stand on their own two feet? They sort their own engines, drivers and car out and don't share a factory. Cut the ties, let's see what you've got guys.

As for my nomination, it's McLaren Honda. For all the reasons that have been mentioned since FP1 in Australia...
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Salamander »

AdrianSutil wrote:I don't see why when one mentions RedBull leaving, Toro Rosso is also mentioned. Yes, yes, I know they are heavily connected, but surely TR have enough resources and support by now that they can stand on their own two feet? They sort their own engines, drivers and car out and don't share a factory. Cut the ties, let's see what you've got guys.


Um, they still have Red Bull emblazoned all over the cars - a Red Bull departure surely would hit them as hard as Milton Keynes.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Wallio »

3.) Sauber - What in the hell happened?

2.) Red Bull - My favorite team, but throwing Renault under the bus after 4 titles is pure BS.

1.) McLaren. Really? Really? Could there be anyone else?
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by mario »

Salamander wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:I don't see why when one mentions RedBull leaving, Toro Rosso is also mentioned. Yes, yes, I know they are heavily connected, but surely TR have enough resources and support by now that they can stand on their own two feet? They sort their own engines, drivers and car out and don't share a factory. Cut the ties, let's see what you've got guys.


Um, they still have Red Bull emblazoned all over the cars - a Red Bull departure surely would hit them as hard as Milton Keynes.

Not only that, you have to bear in mind that the original design team and facilities at Toro Rosso have been completely hollowed out. They are entirely dependent on Red Bull Technologies - the design consultancy that Red Bull set up to share research and development resources for both teams - to design their cars.

Most of Minardi's design staff were incorporated into that company and most of Minardi's production facilities no longer exist or are obsolete - if Red Bull were to pull out, they would either shut down or redirect the resources of Red Bull Technologies, rendering Toro Rosso essentially valueless. Renault did reportedly investigate the option of buying Toro Rosso, but the cost of putting together the industrial resources and personnel to actually run the team meant that the costs were too much for Renault to stomach, hence why they turned to Lotus pretty quickly.
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by James1978 »

McLaren were so bad it was laughable - Red Bull were never quite in that territory.

Actually if the 1996 - 2013 car numbering system was still in place, McLaren would have 18 and 19 for next year. That's nearly as bad as 2008 when they were excluded the previous year!!!
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Re: Reject of the Year - 2015

Post by Faustus »

I hesitate to nominate McLaren-Honda because I honestly didn't think it would be any different. A year of pain was to be expected but also necessary to establish a starting point. I think Honda will be much faster next year because they had a bad year and I still think that McLaren made the right decision to endure a year like 2015 to be in a position for the near future.
So for me it's between the Red Bull shenanigans with engines (current and potential future) and Kimi Raikkonen and his utterly shite season and waste of a good car.
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