The ASMF Canon Council Topic

In honour of our fallen comrade. Archive of all previous canon series across all disciplines.
Post Reply
User avatar
Nuppiz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 5922
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 12:10
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Contact:

The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Nuppiz »

This topic will serve as a discussion thread between the ASMF Canon Council members and regular users concerning various issues that have arisen in canon series and/or their continuity and how these should be fixed. The Canon Council can then take a number of actions, ranging from kindly notifying the series owner about the matter to completely striking the series off the canon if multiple requests of improvement are ignored. Basically, the Canon Council is given the authority of deciding what is canon and what is not.

Council members are appointed on a semi-permanent basis, with new Council members appointed in the wake of a voluntary resignation, or incapacitation owing to extraneous circumstances. The approval process for new Council members shall be conducted via the Council's voting mechanism itself, in accordance with Council Rule C.3.

Current Council

Aerond (AutoReject)
Wizzie (Independent)
RealRacingRoots (Independent)
Klon (FIA)
tommykl (Historical)
kevinbotz (Neutral)

Presently Active ASMF Regulations:

1. A "real-life" driver clause is in effect in F2 and F3, wherein participating teams are to hire at least one real-life driver as a measure of addressing the disparity between real and fictional drivers in the FIA junior single-seater ladder, until 2021.

2. A minimum age-limit of 15 is presently in effect across all F4 championships.

3. Series organizers, particularly in regard to regional series, are strongly advised to consider the geographical and national plausibility of the team bids that they receive as grounds for acceptance or rejection. Whilst this prerogative is primarily situated series-side, the council may intervene should there exist a particularly egregious case.

4. Automated series are presently accepted within the ASMF, with proposals for automated series required to follow the same ratification process as full-participation series, via a majority council vote.

5. Any alterations made to a series calendar, once set, must be accompanied by a correspondingly appropriate justification. Arbitrary calendar changes without sufficient basis will no longer be recognized.

6. Prior participation in the 18-Metre Debut Forum now constitutes the only necessary condition for inclusion into the ASMF, with specific series proposals continuing to be ratified or rejected on a case-by-case basis. Direct entry into the ASMF by users without prior experience in either the ASMF or the 18MDF through the submission of an entry-level championship proposal is no longer permitted.

7. All substantial name changes, in regard to ASMF series, are to be vetted through the Council, with trivial changes, such as changes to a series' corporate sponsorship, excluded.

Council Rules

1. All ASMF series proposals must be explicitly ratified via a council vote. Informal ratification, or collecting votes from council members outside of the council thread, is no longer allowed.

2. A successful ratification of a proposal shall now demand four affirmative votes.

3. The council shall decide about matters regarding its structure, membership and voting process of the members with a vote between all current members of the council.

Former councils
1st June 2017 to 24 October 2018:
kevinbotz (Chairman, Neutral Member)
Nuppiz (AutoReject Representative)
Simtek (FIA Representative)
Wizzie (Independents' Representative)
tommykl (Historical Representative)
DemocalypseNow (IndyCar Representative)
novitopoli (F4 Representative)

8th May 2016 to 31st May 2017:
kevinbotz (Chairman, Neutral Member)
Aerond (AutoReject Representative)
Klon (FIA Representative)
Rated (Independents' Representative)
tommykl (Historical Representative)
Eurosport broadcast for the 1990 Mexican GP prequalifying:
"The Life, it looked very lifeless yet again... in fact Bruno did one, slow lap"
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

With the council now decided, I'd like to formally pitch a solution to ensuring people who go on to run their own canonical series have some experience in the field.

I'd like to propose the addition of regional, bottom tier single seater series. A bottom tier single-seater series is probably the easiest thing to run, especially if people quickly simulate race results in GP2 or in a similar game, and it will give people the chance to get their eye in to following the general canon timetable, as well as presenting and recording the results.

I feel perhaps four or five "regions" can be represented (either the council can determine the regions, or this can be at the series owner's discretion), and this will create a bottom layer of series akin to real-world Formula 4, feeding either the FIA or the AutoReject ladders.

Further details can be decided later if this is something that the council deem worthy of pursuing, but for now I'd be happy to hear any ideas or concerns that the council has on the matter.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by AndreaModa »

I'd just like a quick explanation of what (if anything) is being done to resolve the remainder of the 2017 F3RWRS season, and also, if a 2018 F2 season will be run at some point. No axe to grind, and I might have missed announcements on both of these issues, but I'm just curious if there are any plans in the pipeline, that's all. :)
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

AndreaModa wrote:I'd just like a quick explanation of what (if anything) is being done to resolve the remainder of the 2017 F3RWRS season, and also, if a 2018 F2 season will be run at some point. No axe to grind, and I might have missed announcements on both of these issues, but I'm just curious if there are any plans in the pipeline, that's all. :)


Oh, I think I can explain those. F3RWRS, I believe, was just cancelled altogether; whilst it would've been good to finish it, TMLW disappearing but for a few cameos kinda put a damper on that.

Miguel took over F2, although I expect it'll get going again soon after a little break in proceedings.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
kevinbotz
Posts: 1141
Joined: 08 May 2013, 21:36
Location: True North

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by kevinbotz »

Ataxia wrote:With the council now decided, I'd like to formally pitch a solution to ensuring people who go on to run their own canonical series have some experience in the field.

I'd like to propose the addition of regional, bottom tier single seater series. A bottom tier single-seater series is probably the easiest thing to run, especially if people quickly simulate race results in GP2 or in a similar game, and it will give people the chance to get their eye in to following the general canon timetable, as well as presenting and recording the results.

I feel perhaps four or five "regions" can be represented (either the council can determine the regions, or this can be at the series owner's discretion), and this will create a bottom layer of series akin to real-world Formula 4, feeding either the FIA or the AutoReject ladders.

Further details can be decided later if this is something that the council deem worthy of pursuing, but for now I'd be happy to hear any ideas or concerns that the council has on the matter.


It's certainly worth exploring; barriers to entry, as mentioned, will be relatively low. Establishing it as a compulsory process by which all future prospective canon series managers must undergo will at least go some way as to the concerning series turnover rate which we've been experiencing recently. Furthermore, the acclimation of these series managers to not only the canon timetable, but also to the eventuality of operating a series in concert with other existing competitions, should provide a decent introduction to certain basic canon mechanics.

As a matter of clarification, I'm presuming that the administration of these series will be determined on a rotational basis?

On a similar subject, I'd like to table a discussion concerning the possible implementation of a probationary testing period for all future canon series, with consideration to some of the technical difficulties and disparities in driver performance files experienced by certain series in recent memory, during either a relatively advanced phase of the preparation period or in the middle of the season, full stop.
Klon, on Alt-F1 wrote: I like to think it's more poker than gambling, though.
User avatar
CaptainGetz12
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1848
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 03:19
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by CaptainGetz12 »

Ataxia wrote:With the council now decided, I'd like to formally pitch a solution to ensuring people who go on to run their own canonical series have some experience in the field.

I'd like to propose the addition of regional, bottom tier single seater series. A bottom tier single-seater series is probably the easiest thing to run, especially if people quickly simulate race results in GP2 or in a similar game, and it will give people the chance to get their eye in to following the general canon timetable, as well as presenting and recording the results.

I feel perhaps four or five "regions" can be represented (either the council can determine the regions, or this can be at the series owner's discretion), and this will create a bottom layer of series akin to real-world Formula 4, feeding either the FIA or the AutoReject ladders.

Further details can be decided later if this is something that the council deem worthy of pursuing, but for now I'd be happy to hear any ideas or concerns that the council has on the matter.


I'd look through the F3000 and Formula 3 carsets then at grandprix2.de for a potential mod. The Formula Rus mod (near bottom of page) could work as well.
Klon wrote:What did poor André do to you for him to be insulted like that?
User avatar
SuperAguri
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2026
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 01:27
Location: Rio, Brazil

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by SuperAguri »

I mentioned this in the chatroom last night but I thought I should put it in here too.

I propose that from the 2019 season, all DEC holders that wish to enter their drivers into any canon series should list them in the CCLOACD (Comprehensively Comprehensive list of ALL Canon Drivers), this list should start anew every season.

If a DEC holder leaves then the list gets updated so their drivers are listed as ROR candidates or upcoming "Free Agency - Sign Drivers", the same if a DEC holder has not signed in before a new season starts.

I believe this should clear up issues with drivers, esp when trying to sign drivers at the start of the season and should stop people asking questions like who owns "David Neuberg", etc.

Furthermore, the CCLOACD list could also state how long a driver is signed for, so if for example A-Team Racing sign A.Stooge from DECHolderX for 3 seasons and DECHolderX leaves then it is clear how long the contract is for.
<@Ataxia> these people are making a mess of their crepe suzettes
User avatar
Klon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7184
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:07
Location: Schleswig-Holstein, FRG
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Klon »

Ataxia wrote:Oh, I think I can explain those. F3RWRS, I believe, was just cancelled altogether; whilst it would've been good to finish it, TMLW disappearing but for a few cameos kinda put a damper on that.

Miguel took over F2, although I expect it'll get going again soon after a little break in proceedings.


Indeed, F3RWRS was canceled. For all intents and purposes, the final table as you see it on the wiki right now is the final F3RWRS standings.

Miguel also has some technical issues with the game at the moment.

Regarding SuperAguri's comment: such a list is only useful if it is being regularly updated, not just by the users with the DECs, but also in the OP (nobody searches through an entire thread), so if you volunteer, go ahead.

ataxia's idea is not bad at all: that way passionate guys can get their feet wet in running a canon series without making a mess of things.
User avatar
Miguel98
Posts: 2450
Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 09:18
Location: Somewhere in Portugal

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Miguel98 »

SuperAguri wrote:I mentioned this in the chatroom last night but I thought I should put it in here too.

I propose that from the 2019 season, all DEC holders that wish to enter their drivers into any canon series should list them in the CCLOACD (Comprehensively Comprehensive list of ALL Canon Drivers), this list should start anew every season.

If a DEC holder leaves then the list gets updated so their drivers are listed as ROR candidates or upcoming "Free Agency - Sign Drivers", the same if a DEC holder has not signed in before a new season starts.

I believe this should clear up issues with drivers, esp when trying to sign drivers at the start of the season and should stop people asking questions like who owns "David Neuberg", etc.

Furthermore, the CCLOACD list could also state how long a driver is signed for, so if for example A-Team Racing sign A.Stooge from DECHolderX for 3 seasons and DECHolderX leaves then it is clear how long the contract is for.


While not part of the council, I second this. This is something that needs to be looked upon.

I think what should be done is: every person posts their DEC's owners, and who doesn't, their drivers will go for RoR. Incidentally, if some drivers don't feature in the DEC list of an owner (e.g. Braggia doesn't show up in Pasta's DEC list), the council should search to find out who owns who.
Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
User avatar
kevinbotz
Posts: 1141
Joined: 08 May 2013, 21:36
Location: True North

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by kevinbotz »

I'd like to table a discussion concerning the viability of the continued canon status of Axel's Indy World Series.

Considering the various incongruities and inconsistencies observed within the series in question, such as canon rookies attaining front-running form at the expense of established drivers, injury RNGs being conducted without any correlation with events within the actual simulation, and an admission by the user himself that performance files have been externally manipulated to propagate an artificial state of relative competition, it is my feeling that the Indy World Series must subject itself to extensive reforms adequately addressing the aforementioned concerns and other existing issues in order to retain its canon status. Failing that, the Indy World Series should be struck from the ASMF entirely.

Furthermore, given that the Indy Lights Championship and Indy Star Mazda were both established without being ratified by a canon coordinator, the two series in question should be considered as non-canon and struck from the ASMF with immediate effect.
Klon, on Alt-F1 wrote: I like to think it's more poker than gambling, though.
User avatar
Bobby Doorknobs
Posts: 4059
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 17:52
Location: In a safe place.

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

I think the proposed solution re IWS is a fair one, and would set a precedent for a 'three strikes' system for future series. Axel has had two attempts to run the series to a satisfactory degree so far, and from what I can see both attempts have been unsuccessful. If a third attempt proves to be equally unsuccessful we may just have to cut it out altogether.

With regards to Indy Lights and Star Mazda, I do find it bizarre that these have been set up seemingly out of nowhere in spite of the myriad of issues plaguing IWS, and they should never have been started in the first place - at least not until IWS has been properly sorted out.
#FreeGonzo
User avatar
DemocalypseNow
Posts: 13185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009, 09:30
Location: Lost, send help
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Simtek wrote:With regards to Indy Lights and Star Mazda, I do find it bizarre that these have been set up seemingly out of nowhere in spite of the myriad of issues plaguing IWS, and they should never have been started in the first place - at least not until IWS has been properly sorted out.

So why when I said this in the thread for said series, did nobody agree? Speak up and say something at the appropriate time. Prevention is better than cure. We can debate about it all day, but this would have been avoided if people had spoken up at the more appropriate juncture.
Novitopoli wrote:Everytime someone orders at Pizza Hut, an Italian dies.
Novitopoli wrote:Juve's Triplete: Calciopoli, doping & Mafia connections.

Image Image
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

Biscione wrote:
Simtek wrote:With regards to Indy Lights and Star Mazda, I do find it bizarre that these have been set up seemingly out of nowhere in spite of the myriad of issues plaguing IWS, and they should never have been started in the first place - at least not until IWS has been properly sorted out.

So why when I said this in the thread for said series, did nobody agree? Speak up and say something at the appropriate time. Prevention is better than cure. We can debate about it all day, but this would have been avoided if people had spoken up at the more appropriate juncture.


Because we probably didn't look in the threads...

Regardless, I'm in agreement, the whole thing's a bloody mess. Axel's been told to sort it, he hasn't done a thing other than outsourcing talent files to Miguel, so it has to be dealt with asap.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
CaptainGetz12
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1848
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 03:19
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by CaptainGetz12 »

Ataxia wrote:
Because we probably didn't look in the threads...

Regardless, I'm in agreement, the whole thing's a bloody mess. Axel's been told to sort it, he hasn't done a thing other than outsourcing talent files to Miguel, so it has to be dealt with asap.


I agree with this. I feel like the system in place for all of these "Road to Indy" series are awkward and can have more thought put into them. I would recommend that Axel would have a meeting with the admins of PMMC to see how this problem could be fixed.
Klon wrote:What did poor André do to you for him to be insulted like that?
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by AndreaModa »

Goodness me, we've come a long way from the random results of the early F1RWRS haven't we?

This all seems a bit nasty for my liking. The kid wanted to run a few championships, he thought he was ready, so let him! I say fair play, I'd like to run one myself but I haven't got the abilities or the balls to see it through - particularly if the results turn out bad and it ends up like this!

No-one is under any obligation to enter. The way I've always approached things is I judge whether or not I enter a championship based on my own opinion of how I think it will fare and how well it will be managed. You boys all entered it, I'm assuming you made a similar calculation in your own heads, thus you sort of knew what to expect anyway. With you all piling in, it was always going to be canon, so I think it's a bit unfair, having made that commitment, to then get angry and say it should be changed/stopped.

If this is how series management is going to be dealt with from now on, is there any wonder that we're facing a shortfall of people willing to run them? I suggest we lighten up a little, cut Axel some slack, let him run his series how he wants and if you don't like it, then leave! Easy peasy. It's only a game folks.
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
CaptainGetz12
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1848
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 03:19
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by CaptainGetz12 »

AndreaModa wrote:Goodness me, we've come a long way from the random results of the early F1RWRS haven't we?

This all seems a bit nasty for my liking. The kid wanted to run a few championships, he thought he was ready, so let him! I say fair play, I'd like to run one myself but I haven't got the abilities or the balls to see it through - particularly if the results turn out bad and it ends up like this!

No-one is under any obligation to enter. The way I've always approached things is I judge whether or not I enter a championship based on my own opinion of how I think it will fare and how well it will be managed. You boys all entered it, I'm assuming you made a similar calculation in your own heads, thus you sort of knew what to expect anyway. With you all piling in, it was always going to be canon, so I think it's a bit unfair, having made that commitment, to then get angry and say it should be changed/stopped.

If this is how series management is going to be dealt with from now on, is there any wonder that we're facing a shortfall of people willing to run them? I suggest we lighten up a little, cut Axel some slack, let him run his series how he wants and if you don't like it, then leave! Easy peasy. It's only a game folks.


As someone who did not take the series with both hands though I did offer Tanner Jason a ride in Indy Lights I think that anyone should be able to run a series: We're not some super-exclusive club or anything.

However, if a series is manipulating results and using a system that does not reflect talent levels I would not hold it in as high importance as other series. I would not want to see Indy leave (again) but I would like to see a series that shows the different levels of talent in a more honest way if it wants to be part of Reject canon.
Last edited by CaptainGetz12 on 19 May 2016, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.
Klon wrote:What did poor André do to you for him to be insulted like that?
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

AndreaModa wrote:Goodness me, we've come a long way from the random results of the early F1RWRS haven't we?

This all seems a bit nasty for my liking. The kid wanted to run a few championships, he thought he was ready, so let him! I say fair play, I'd like to run one myself but I haven't got the abilities or the balls to see it through - particularly if the results turn out bad and it ends up like this!

No-one is under any obligation to enter. The way I've always approached things is I judge whether or not I enter a championship based on my own opinion of how I think it will fare and how well it will be managed. You boys all entered it, I'm assuming you made a similar calculation in your own heads, thus you sort of knew what to expect anyway. With you all piling in, it was always going to be canon, so I think it's a bit unfair, having made that commitment, to then get angry and say it should be changed/stopped.

If this is how series management is going to be dealt with from now on, is there any wonder that we're facing a shortfall of people willing to run them? I suggest we lighten up a little, cut Axel some slack, let him run his series how he wants and if you don't like it, then leave! Easy peasy. It's only a game folks.


That's the thing, Axel made promises at the beginning that he'd give it a good go; after Rejects-1, he needed to show some capability. And he hasn't. He's had to re-run the first few races twice, he's gone to circuits with no rhyme or reason, and there's a number of other reasons. People been crying out for a well-run Indy series for ages, and perhaps the result's a bit disappointing. (and personally, I ended up wasting a lot of time on liveries for results coverage, so there's another reason I'm annoyed at the whole thing).

Again, this is why I point back to my bottom-tier feeder series idea. If you're looking to run a series, then running a regional bottom tier series where the pressure's off a bit gives you the chance to work out game mechanics, try new things and get a feel for running something.

I probably have a lot more to say, but I'll keep it to the two points above for now.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
kevinbotz
Posts: 1141
Joined: 08 May 2013, 21:36
Location: True North

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by kevinbotz »

AndreaModa wrote:Goodness me, we've come a long way from the random results of the early F1RWRS haven't we?

This all seems a bit nasty for my liking. The kid wanted to run a few championships, he thought he was ready, so let him! I say fair play, I'd like to run one myself but I haven't got the abilities or the balls to see it through - particularly if the results turn out bad and it ends up like this!

No-one is under any obligation to enter. The way I've always approached things is I judge whether or not I enter a championship based on my own opinion of how I think it will fare and how well it will be managed. You boys all entered it, I'm assuming you made a similar calculation in your own heads, thus you sort of knew what to expect anyway. With you all piling in, it was always going to be canon, so I think it's a bit unfair, having made that commitment, to then get angry and say it should be changed/stopped.

If this is how series management is going to be dealt with from now on, is there any wonder that we're facing a shortfall of people willing to run them? I suggest we lighten up a little, cut Axel some slack, let him run his series how he wants and if you don't like it, then leave! Easy peasy. It's only a game folks.


The issue here is that, for better or for worse, the canon is now a fundamentally interconnected entity; no canon series exists in isolation from any other. Had Axel run his series in the 18-Metre forum, irrespective of how nonsensical the structure and the results are, there would've been zero issue with the series as it would've exerted no undue or unwelcome influence on any other series. At the very moment a series is established with canon compliance in mind however, such a degree of independent agency, unfortunately, no longer applies, particularly for a nominally top level open-wheeler series.

To offer up a hypothetical situation to adequately elucidate the predicament at hand, at the moment, should the present IWS structure and results continue to stand, a number of drivers with zero prior experience in canon, as a consequence of Axel's mismanagement of IWS performance files, will have acquired competitive standing equivalent to that of an ARWS or an Alt-F1 race winner. Needless to say, this holds the possibility of severely disrupting the competitive equilibrium throughout the ASMF.

Furthermore, participants have found themselves subject to arbitrary adjustments in the performance of their respective drivers and teams, as the series owner has arbitrarily aggrandized the performance of certain drivers and cars at the expense of others, in addition to introducing an additional probability of injury for drivers with zero regard for whether the accident in question actually occurred within the simulation itself. To address your concerns regarding the ostensibly draconian tack we're approaching IWS with, no other canon series presently possesses such a latent capacity to undermine the competitive order of other series and the security of the drivers involved, nor engages in such blatant manipulation of the competitive results.

In consideration of the items expressed above, it remains my considered opinion that IWS must reform, or be stricken entirely, if for nothing else than to preserve the existing efforts of other series owners and DEC holders.
Last edited by kevinbotz on 19 May 2016, 04:36, edited 2 times in total.
Klon, on Alt-F1 wrote: I like to think it's more poker than gambling, though.
User avatar
Bobby Doorknobs
Posts: 4059
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 17:52
Location: In a safe place.

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

AndreaModa wrote:You boys all entered it, I'm assuming you made a similar calculation in your own heads, thus you sort of knew what to expect anyway. With you all piling in, it was always going to be canon, so I think it's a bit unfair, having made that commitment, to then get angry and say it should be changed/stopped.

Of the people voicing their opinions in here only Ataxia actually made a full-time entry to the series, and he withdrew after it became clear that there were problems not unlike those experienced with Rejects-1.

With regards to everything else, kevinbotz and Ataxia have pretty much collectively summed it up. If it was an 18-Metre debut forum series there would be no problem whatsoever. Andrea Sassetti forum... different kettle of fish these days, as every series is connected to one another in some way.
#FreeGonzo
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by AndreaModa »

Fair enough. Just keep in mind it's a game and try not to take it too seriously. It's about having fun after all.
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

There is another thing I'd like to bring to the council's attention, and it's purely a matter of storyline. After ARWS moved to the AutoReject ladder and the FIA assimilated F2RWRS and F3RWRS into its portfolio, that leaves a question: what of GP2 and GP3?

My issue is that not enough real-life drivers and teams are represented in the FIA feeder series, and if GP2 and GP3 can be officially classed as "gone", then I propose that teams hire at least 1 mandatory real-life driver in each series (and also within reason as well, Louis Deletraz and Antonio Fuoco currently appear in F3, which is a little strange for a 2018 series).

Any thoughts?
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
CaptainGetz12
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1848
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 03:19
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by CaptainGetz12 »

Ataxia wrote:There is another thing I'd like to bring to the council's attention, and it's purely a matter of storyline. After ARWS moved to the AutoReject ladder and the FIA assimilated F2RWRS and F3RWRS into its portfolio, that leaves a question: what of GP2 and GP3?

My issue is that not enough real-life drivers and teams are represented in the FIA feeder series, and if GP2 and GP3 can be officially classed as "gone", then I propose that teams hire at least 1 mandatory real-life driver in each series (and also within reason as well, Louis Deletraz and Antonio Fuoco currently appear in F3, which is a little strange for a 2018 series).

Any thoughts?


I agree with the idea that there should be more real-life drivers within our series. I know our forum wants to emphasize our own drivers, but it does look strange ti not see any up-and-comers IRL doing anything more than cameos.

You could say they're all at GP2 and GP3, but it still leaves little space for drivers IRL to be in motorsport in this canon.

I support having a minimum quota for real-life series to have a certain number of real-life drivers. However, I would also recommend having an official "canon career" posted for notable drivers so we can see what series they should be expected to be in by 2018. This will make it easier in avoiding having what we have in F3 right now, with drivers spending years in junior formula against mostly fictional characters.
Klon wrote:What did poor André do to you for him to be insulted like that?
User avatar
Nuppiz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 5922
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 12:10
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Nuppiz »

On the IRC channel it was pointed out that the Council is lacking a formal chairman. As my final act in establishing the Council, I'll grant kevinbotz these powers.

Hopefully you can now get some things decided.
Eurosport broadcast for the 1990 Mexican GP prequalifying:
"The Life, it looked very lifeless yet again... in fact Bruno did one, slow lap"
User avatar
kevinbotz
Posts: 1141
Joined: 08 May 2013, 21:36
Location: True North

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by kevinbotz »

Seeing that Axel has recently abandoned the ASMF, of his own volition, and that discussions have been conducted across nearly all of the topics tabled thus far, I'd like to initiate a vote on the following proposals:

1. Implementing a "trial phase" for prospective canon managers in the form of a regional, bottom-tier, series.

2. Enforcing a compulsory list of all active DECs.

3. Striking IWS from the canon continuity in its entirety.

4. Implementing a mandatory "real-driver" clause in F2 and F3, with the aim of addressing the disparity between fictional and real drivers in the FIA junior ladder. This clause will remain in effect until 2021.

I'll proceed to kick off voting:

1. Yes
2. Abstain
3. Yes
4. Yes
Last edited by kevinbotz on 12 Jun 2016, 21:34, edited 2 times in total.
Klon, on Alt-F1 wrote: I like to think it's more poker than gambling, though.
User avatar
Rated
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 529
Joined: 14 Oct 2012, 14:06

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Rated »

1. Abstain
2. Abstain
3. Yes
4. Yes
BORDAS BORDAS BORDAS
User avatar
Klon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7184
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:07
Location: Schleswig-Holstein, FRG
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Klon »

1. Agreed.

2. Against until we have a reliable volunteer willing to always update this list in one post.

3. Agreed.

4. Agreed.

Edit: adjusted voting after clarification on point 4.
User avatar
DemocalypseNow
Posts: 13185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009, 09:30
Location: Lost, send help
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by DemocalypseNow »

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
Novitopoli wrote:Everytime someone orders at Pizza Hut, an Italian dies.
Novitopoli wrote:Juve's Triplete: Calciopoli, doping & Mafia connections.

Image Image
User avatar
Klon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7184
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:07
Location: Schleswig-Holstein, FRG
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Klon »

Biscione wrote:1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No


Hush, boy. Mommy and daddy are talking.
User avatar
tommykl
Posts: 7062
Joined: 07 Apr 2010, 17:10
Location: Banbury, Oxfordshire, UK

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by tommykl »

1. Aye
2. Abstain
3. Aye
4. Abstain
kevinbotz wrote:Cantonese is a completely nonsensical f*cking alien language masquerading as some grossly bastardised form of Chinese

Gonzo wrote:Wasn't there some sort of communisim in the East part of Germany?
User avatar
Aerond
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3504
Joined: 25 Mar 2010, 19:26
Location: Anschlussland

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Aerond »

1. Yes

2. No

3. Yes

4. Abstain
Tread lightly in ARWS. Every decision might be your last.
User avatar
SeedStriker
Posts: 1288
Joined: 02 Jul 2012, 19:51

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by SeedStriker »

1) Yes
2) Abstain
3) Yes
4) Abstain
User avatar
Bobby Doorknobs
Posts: 4059
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 17:52
Location: In a safe place.

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Biscione wrote:1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No

SeedStriker wrote:1) Yes
2) Abstain
3) Yes
4) Abstain

Pretty sure this is only for the council to vote on, guys :P
#FreeGonzo
User avatar
kevinbotz
Posts: 1141
Joined: 08 May 2013, 21:36
Location: True North

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by kevinbotz »

Proposal 1: Passes
Proposal 2: Fails
Proposal 3: Passes
Proposal 4: Passes

Axel's Indy World Series, Indy Lights Championship and Indy Star Mazda are now officially struck from canon. The "real-life" driver clause pertaining to the FIA junior ladder is now in effect until 2021, to be implemented by the relevant series managers at their discretion.

AndreaModa's proposal to exclude the 1998 RTCC season from canon, and the specifics of the entry-level series as agreed to in principle by the council with regard to Proposal 1, are now tabled as active topics for discussion.
Klon, on Alt-F1 wrote: I like to think it's more poker than gambling, though.
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

I also have another proposition to bring to the council's attention, although you knew this was coming...

With the general problems with Axel's series, I've been coming up with plans for a new Indycar series in the background. Therefore, I would like to formally bring them to the attention of the council, as well as the rest of the PMMF.

I'd like to bring back some of the realism, and position Indycar as a viable alternative to F1 and ARWS. I'll break down what I have in mind. This will begin, needless to say, in 2019.

TEAMS

The teams available at the start of the game will be:

Team Penske
Chip Ganassi Racing
Andretti Autosport
AJ Foyt
Dale Coyne
Ed Carpenter
KVSH Racing
Rahal Letterman Lanigan
Schmidt Peterson Motorsports
Cassidy Racing

Team Penske, Ganassi and Andretti will have 4 cars each whilst all the other teams will have two. What I may do is allow two people to partner up for a four-car team. This is yet to be decided.

FINANCES

The game will work with a sponsorship model. Teams will endeavour to sell space to sponsors in order to form their overall budget. Sponsors must be signed PER CAR.

There will be a pre-determined list of sponsors, with the fees that they pay included. They will most provide certain requirements that the occupant of that car must meet in order to pay out. For example, SMP Racing will require a Russian driver to fill a car that they sponsor. Once the driver has been signed, then they pay out their money.

Some sponsors prefer certain teams, and some sponsors will offer a reduced up-front sum offset by greater bonuses for acheivements. Again, payouts will be based on the individual car's achievements, not by team.

If you do not wish to restrict your driver options, paydrivers can be signed in lieu of sponsorship. There will be no criteria for signing them, but the caveat is that there will be a limited number of paydrivers. You cannot sell a car's space to a sponsor and then put a paying driver in the same car.

TECHNICAL

Teams will be able to choose between Chevy and Honda engines. Both have different characteristics and will have different purchaseable upgrade paths. Teams will select engines first; the initial contract will have no cost, but teams are locked in with their supplier for each three-year cycle.

I am intending to use the same repair mechanic as alt-F3000 currently employs, although damage figures and costs will be tweaked. Teams will spend money on repairs, and can test in order to look at improving setups and familiarising their drivers with the car.

Money can also be spent on mechanic training, improving a team's overall reliability, as well as social media and hospitality, improving sponsor relations (and hence their influence in future sponsor markets).

DRIVERS

Sponsors will require certain drivers in certain cars. As mentioned, paydrivers can also purchase a ride for a season.

Real-life and fictional drivers will be allowed into the series, albeit with experience requirements. Like F1, teams will offer contracts to drivers, (approx. minimum $500,000 per season), whilst tiered minimum contract values will exist for fictional drivers based on past achievements.

SPORTING

The calendar will be drawn up prior to the start of the season if the plan is approved.

Points will be awarded in the same way as they are in reality.

MISCELLANEOUS

I will use GP2 for the bulk of the series, although the Indy 500 may be done using rFactor if I cannot feasibly run it on GP2.

If the series is given the green light by the council, that means that I will give up running alt-F3000. Since I don't wish to see it go, I will be happy to find a successor. They will be entitled to change the overall mechanics of the series, as long as it still feels like 1980s F3000.

I welcome any feedback from all members in the PMMF.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15426
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by dr-baker »

Ataxia, would you allow one-off entries for the Indy 500/GP of Indy plus Indy 500 as happens in real life?
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
Ataxia
Not Important
Posts: 6860
Joined: 23 Jun 2010, 12:47
Location: Sneed's Feed & Seed (formerly Chuck's)
Contact:

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Ataxia »

dr-baker wrote:Ataxia, would you allow one-off entries for the Indy 500/GP of Indy plus Indy 500 as happens in real life?


Yes, but again, I'll give precedence to the more realistic entries. Obviously, if you were to give Pippa Mann a run out, then that would be a very realistic option for example.

I don't want to appear like a stickler, but I want to create something more serious than the clusterf*ck of IWS...
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
User avatar
Miguel98
Posts: 2450
Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 09:18
Location: Somewhere in Portugal

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Miguel98 »

Regarding the Driver's DEC List: I've already volunteered, that after the exams, I'll take a day off to investigate that if that's okay with everyone :P
Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15426
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by dr-baker »

Ataxia wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Ataxia, would you allow one-off entries for the Indy 500/GP of Indy plus Indy 500 as happens in real life?


Yes, but again, I'll give precedence to the more realistic entries. Obviously, if you were to give Pippa Mann a run out, then that would be a very realistic option for example.

Wow, it's as if you could have read my mind! ;) (Well, I was thinking of either her or Katherine Legge. Or both.)
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
AndreaModa
Posts: 5806
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 17:51
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by AndreaModa »

kevinbotz wrote:AndreaModa's proposal to exclude the 1998 RTCC season from canon, and the specifics of the entry-level series as agreed to in principle by the council with regard to Proposal 1, are now tabled as active topics for discussion.


Nice to see that hasn't been forgotten about. Appreciate that, though I realise it's hardly a pressing issue!
I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
User avatar
Miguel98
Posts: 2450
Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 09:18
Location: Somewhere in Portugal

Re: The ASMF Canon Council Topic

Post by Miguel98 »

I want to get a plan for Formula E to be aprooved by the canon council, to run during the Winter of 2018-2019 and the years ahead. Here's the plan.

Teams:
We will get a 13 team car grid (26 drivers).
Due to beeing part of the FIA ladder, Klon told me to make sure to have a realistic grid regarding teams: this means teams will get selected, not just by canon reputation, but also by comparison to what FE teams look like. More than 13 entries can be made, but not all will get accepted (only 13, lol) :P

Weekend Structure:
Drivers will get divided (by random group generator) into two qualifying groups. The top 4 of each group will advance into a one lap shoot-out for pole position. The groups will feature a 10 minute, 6 lap showdown.
The weekend will feature a 100km race, with a pitstop (just like in real life, it will feature a car switch), with the series finale featuring two races.
In case a driver suffer a serious crash, or gets a engine/gearbox failure, he will incur a 5 place grid penalty for the next race.
Beeing a FIA series, we will use the FIA points scheme: 15-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 with 2 points for pole position.

Calendar:
Due to rFactor's sometimes edgy results regarding street circuits, and this might be controversial, I was thinking of running a 8 round season, with 5 rounds in street circuits, and 3 rounds in normal road courses.
This was the provisional calendar I came up with:

Pre-Season Testing - Donington Park
1st Round - Putrajaya Street Circuit
2nd Round - Baku City Circuit
3rd Round - Dubai
4th Round - Long Beach Street Circuit
5th Round - TBA, Street Circuit in Europe
6th Round - TBA, Round in Italy (road course)
7th Round - Brands Hatch
8th Round - Circuit Charles de Gaulle

Game Mechanics:
Formula E would be run using the Formula E WCP 14-15 mod, which means it'll be a single spec series, at least for this first year..
I'm planning on using rFactor to simulate the series, together with the rFe weather plugin (will need lots of testing, probably will only get used for season 2 onwards).
Beeing a FIA series, both canon drivers and real life drivers can be used (not sure if the at least 1 real life driver per team rule will be assigned to this or not). Talent files will be handled regarding canon results and real life results from real life drivers, while canon drivers will be looked upon extensivelly to get the most accurate performance reflected.
A new game mechanic, which I've discussed with Klon over the past couple of months regarding F2 and F3, serves as a "setup" differential. In other words, the differences sometimes created with setups in real life in single spec series, will try to be created in FE, and most probably, if this works, in F2 and F3 next season. How it'll work then?
Well, at the start of the season, each team will get a performance figure assigned to their name. This performance figure is a RNG range for how much a drivers performance can gain or loose from setup (with also, a nationality bonus implemented in home races).
The performance figure is calculated upon a team's reputation amongst canon history. The highest the reputation, the smaller the RNG range (low chance to loose performance, high chance to win performance), and the lower the reputation, the higher the RNG range (high change to loose performance, low chance to win performance). This'll be further explained when all the teams are signed up.

If I missed anything, please tell me. Up for discussion now.
Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
Post Reply