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Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 06 Dec 2018, 23:37
by FortiWinks
I was thinking the other day about how many coincidences there are in motorsport
One for example involves 9 time Bathurst 1000 winner Peter Brock who was sadly killed driving in a rally. The car he drove was basically an Aussie replica of the Shelby Daytona Coupe, which the original was designed by an American designer called... Peter Brock!
Two completely unrelated people who don’t know each other but are unfortunately linked via a car.
What other major coincidences are there in motorsport?
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 10:06
by Rob Dylan
I don't know the exact dates, but Ascari's death was spookily similar to that of his father's. They died at the same age, with only four days difference, having won the same number of grand prixs, on the same day of the month, and also very soon after having survived serious crashes.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 12:44
by Bobby Doorknobs
Rob Dylan wrote:I don't know the exact dates, but Ascari's death was spookily similar to that of his father's. They died at the same age, with only four days difference, having won the same number of grand prixs, on the same day of the month, and also very soon after having survived serious crashes.
Yeah, 26th of the month, in the summer, 36 years and 10 months of age, although they didn't have the same number of Grand Prix victories - Antonio had only won two Grandes Épreuves at the time of his death (back when there were only two or three of those a year). He also wasn't recently involved in any serious accident. Well, certainly nowhere near as recently as the three days that separated Alberto from his Monaco dip and that day at Monza...
They also both went off on a fast left-hander and were both driving red cars if either of those seem remarkable.
In unrelated news, both Graham and Damon Hill finished eleventh in their respective final races as Brabham drivers.
Michael Schumacher won his third world title in 200
0, Ayrton Senna won his third title in 199
1, Sebastian Vettel won his in 201
2. Jackie Stewart did it in 197
3, Niki Lauda in 198
4, Juan Manuel Fangio in 195
5, Jack Brabham in 196
6, Nelson Piquet in 198
7 and Alain Prost in 198
9. Lewis Hamilton is the only driver with three or more titles who doesn't belong in this sequence (third title won in 2015), so it's probably ruined now.
In 2017, the first races of the F1, Formula E, WRC and WEC seasons were all won by a driver named Sébastien (or Sebastian). Loeb had to go and screw everything up by not winning the opening WRX round (and, I guess, not sticking to WTCC as a driver).
Sauber first adopted a mainly blue livery in 1995, then dropped it after 2005. They went blue again in 2015. Then Alfa Romeo ruined everything...
That Kvyat/Verstappen thing.
Jules Bianchi, who carried the number 17 on his car, died on 17 July.
Ferrari scored a 1-2 in the first Italian Grand Prix after Enzo's death; a remarkable occurence in a year when McLaren won fifteen out of sixteen races.
Nearly one: Jim Clark, Mike Spence and Ludovico Scarfiotti all suffered their fatal accidents nearly one month apart to the day. I say nearly as Clark and Spence crashed on the seventh of their respective months, Scarfiotti on the eighth.
On both of the occasions where a safety car was called as a result of a man invading the track, Rubens Barrichello was the eventual race winner.
1994 saw the début of both Pacific Grand Prix and the Pacific Grand Prix. 1995 was also the last we saw of them...
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 12:58
by AdrianBelmonte_
Simtek wrote:Michael Schumacher won his third world title in 2000, Ayrton Senna won his third title in 1991, Sebastian Vettel won his in 2012. Jackie Stewart did it in 1973, Niki Lauda in 1984, Juan Manuel Fangio in 1955, Jack Brabham in 1966, Nelson Piquet in 1987 and Alain Prost in 1989. Lewis Hamilton is the only driver with three or more titles who doesn't belong in this sequence (third title won in 2015), so it's probably ruined now.
Blame it on McLaren for not giving a champ-winning car to Fernando Alonso this year
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 13:59
by Rob Dylan
Damon Hill, the son of Graham Hill, won his championship in 1996, after having finished runner-up in both 94 and 95.
Nico Rosberg, the son of Keke Rosberg, won his championship in 2016, after having finished runner-up in both 14 and 15.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 20:59
by dr-baker
Rob Dylan wrote:Damon Hill, the son of Graham Hill, won his championship in 1996, after having finished runner-up in both 94 and 95.
Nico Rosberg, the son of Keke Rosberg, won his championship in 2016, after having finished runner-up in both 14 and 15.
...and both sons won their title 34 years after their dads won a title.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 02:09
by Bobby Doorknobs
dr-baker wrote:Rob Dylan wrote:Damon Hill, the son of Graham Hill, won his championship in 1996, after having finished runner-up in both 94 and 95.
Nico Rosberg, the son of Keke Rosberg, won his championship in 2016, after having finished runner-up in both 14 and 15.
...and both sons won their title 34 years after their dads won a title.
And I believe both sons held the record for most Grand Prix wins by a non-champion before winning the title.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 12:53
by Peteroli34
- Hamilton and Button both won their first championships the same way. Mercedes powered car number 22 to a 5th place finish at the Brazilian GP.
- Only 2 drivers have crashed into the Harbour at Monaco during an F1 Race. Ascari and Paul Hawkins, both died on May 26th
- Only 2 American F1 champions both win their title at Monza which saw their main championship rivals killed in an accident
- All the teams that Andrea Montermini joined in F1 went bust 3 of them Midseason.
- Stewart/Jaguar/Redbull all got their first podiums at Monaco
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 13:17
by Salamander
peteroli34 wrote:- Only 2 American F1 champions both win their title at Monza which saw their main championship rivals killed in an accident
In both cases, their championship rival was their teammate.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 15:44
by Marco
Simtek wrote:Rob Dylan wrote:In 2017, the first races of the F1, Formula E, WRC and WEC seasons were all won by a driver named Sébastien (or Sebastian). Loeb had to go and screw everything up by not winning the opening WRX round (and, I guess, not sticking to WTCC as a driver).
Indycar as well.
And if we include class wins, the GTLM Class in IMSA.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 19:33
by Bleu
Heinz-Harald Frentzen scored one point in 1996 Japanese Grand Prix. It brought Sauber's total to 53 and happened on Peter Sauber's 53rd birthday.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 08:41
by ibsey
The 1994 Spanish Grand Prix ended with a feel-good story. Hill secured Williams' first win of 1994. The situation mirrored that of his dad Graham who, following the death of Jim Clark in 1968, lifted a shattered Lotus team by winning that year's Spanish Grand Prix. Damon very nearly emulated his dad even further by coming within a couple of points of winning that year’s world championship (just like Graham in 1968).
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 00:15
by FullMetalJack
The two seasons where the Pacific Grand Prix was on the calendar were the same two seasons where Pacific Grand Prix competed. 1994 and 1995.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 06:24
by AustralianStig
When Felipe Massa and Valtteri Bottas paired at Williams, their numbers put together (19 and 77) mirror the year that Williams were formed, 1977.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 10:06
by tommykl
Corrado Fabi's career fits entirely within his brother Teo Fabi's (1983-84 compared to 1982-87). Yet, the two brothers never shared a grid. Teo missed out on 1983, and Corrado's three appearances in 1984 were replacing Teo at Brabham.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 11:00
by Rob Dylan
I think every season has had a past, present or future British Formula 1 world champion on the grid. Also, as far as I've been made aware, this would extend to every race had Button not been DSQ'd along with BAR in 2005 and missed those two races.
Not sure whether this is more of an "unusual stat" than a "coincidence", but it is quite cool.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 11:14
by Bobby Doorknobs
Rob Dylan wrote:I think every season has had a past, present or future British Formula 1 world champion on the grid. Also, as far as I've been made aware, this would extend to every race had Button not been DSQ'd along with BAR in 2005 and missed those two races.
Not sure whether this is more of an "unusual stat" than a "coincidence", but it is quite cool.
Well, every season since 1952. But even then there were quite a few individual races without one of the British world champions: A few that Hawthorn missed in the fifties (mostly during the time he was driving for Jaguar in sportscars), and nearly a full year between Hunt's retirement and Mansell's début during which time the most successful British driver on the grid (at the time and in hindsight) was John Watson. Nige himself also missed quite a few races in his time.
Also, I get the feeling that this thread is starting to turn into a rehash of Unusual F1 Stats. We need more Ascari-like stuff!
So anyway, there were six Taylors who attempted to qualify for a world championship race* - all raced in the 1950s, four of them entered for the same race, none of them related.
*This includes Bill Taylor, an Indy 500 non-qualifier who doesn't appear in most lists of world championship drivers.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 11:51
by Rob Dylan
Ok, so for more coincidences:
In 2009, the Red Bull team had three Sebastia(e)ns driving in Formula 1 except for Mark Webber:
Sébastien Buemi
Sébastien Bourdais
Sebastian Vettel
some other bloke
As far as I'm aware, these three Sébastians are the only drivers who raced in F1 who had that name!
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 15:51
by Bobby Doorknobs
The BRM team in Frankenheimer's Grand Prix was called "Jordan BRM". Fourteen years after the release of the film, the real BRM would compete under that name in the Aurora F1 Championship after its takeover by John Jordan.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 15:58
by dr-baker
Simtek wrote:The BRM team in Frankenheimer's Grand Prix was called "Jordan BRM". Fourteen years after the release of the film, the real BRM would compete under that name in the Aurora F1 Championship after its takeover by John Jordan.
I always wondered, if BRM still existed in the 1990s, and privateer teams were still allowed to run customer cars, whether Eddie Jordan would ever have rum BRM chassis, and therefore we would have had Jordan BRM in the real-life FIA F1 championship?
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 18:20
by Nuppiz
dr-baker wrote:Simtek wrote:The BRM team in Frankenheimer's Grand Prix was called "Jordan BRM". Fourteen years after the release of the film, the real BRM would compete under that name in the Aurora F1 Championship after its takeover by John Jordan.
I always wondered, if BRM still existed in the 1990s, and privateer teams were still allowed to run customer cars, whether Eddie Jordan would ever have rum BRM chassis, and therefore we would have had Jordan BRM in the real-life FIA F1 championship?
Technically speaking, BRM did exist in the 90s...
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 19:27
by Bleu
Jarno Trulli and Jean Alesi being involved in three consecutive accidents at starts in Canadian Grand Prix - two in 1998 and one in 1999.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 07:32
by ibsey
That Pastor won the 2012 Spanish GP on FW's 70th birthday.
Bleu wrote:Jarno Trulli and Jean Alesi being involved in three consecutive accidents at starts in Canadian Grand Prix - two in 1998 and one in 1999.
As an Alesi fan, I cannot tell you how angry I was with Trulli after those incidents. I'm certain Jean would have made it to the podium in both those races (assuming his car lasted the distance which usually it did not).
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 18 Oct 2019, 14:29
by LadyMarussia295
Two creepy coincidences about fatal crashes:
1) 17.07, death day of Jules Bianchi written in European format, is also the hour in 24h format of Anthoine Hubert F2 fatal crash (the accident happened at 5.07 pm according to the Fia statement).
2) F1/soccer coincidence, since the 80s, everytime that fatal crashes happened during a F1 race, the following Fifa World Cup was won by the same nationality of the las F1 death: Italy won in 1982 when the last f1 fatality was Paletti, Brazil won 1994 just months after Senna's death, then France won the 2018 when the last fatality was Bianchi. The opposite for tests: De Angelis died in a f1 test while Italy was still the reigning soccer champion and Spain won in 2010, the last fifa world cup before De Villota's death.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 02 Nov 2019, 00:51
by LadyMarussia295
@ibsey: Frank Williams birthday was one month and two races prior to Spanish GP. He turned 70 soon after the Chinese GP.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 03 Nov 2019, 10:00
by Rob Dylan
That Frank Williams / Pastor Maldonado thing has become something of an urban myth, hasn't it. Certainly that's the narrative that has been built around it. For the longest time I too thought that it was Frank's 70th birthday that day.
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 03 Nov 2019, 18:53
by Bleu
Rob Dylan wrote:That Frank Williams / Pastor Maldonado thing has become something of an urban myth, hasn't it. Certainly that's the narrative that has been built around it. For the longest time I too thought that it was Frank's 70th birthday that day.
It was more down to Frank not travelling anymore to flyaways and Barcelona being first European round, right?
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 19 Apr 2023, 23:59
by Har1MAS1415
In the 1996-2013 era of teams being numbered in the order in which they finished in the previous year's Constructor's Championship, Williams could have run every number lower than 20:
1 & 2 (1998)
3 & 4 (1997, 2003, 2004)
5 & 6 (1996, 1999, 2001, 2002)
7 & 8 (2005, 2008)
9 & 10 (2000, 2006, 2010 after promotion resulting from Toyota and BMW pulling out and Sauber having to re-enter)
11 & 12 (2011)
14 & 15 (Would and should have been 2010 as explained above)
16 & 17 (2007, 2009, 2013)
18 & 19 (2012)
Also, if the 2014 numbering system had been introduced when Pastor Maldonado was driving for Williams, they would have had #13 and completed the set!
(My 300th Post!)
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 10:42
by Har1MAS1415
From the annals of F1 History: (Since I am not sure whether this constitutes a coincidence more than an unusual F1 stat or vice versa)
Eurobrun's first and last classified finishes were 13th places in North American races with South American drivers who had Italian team-mates! (Mexico 1988 with Oscar Larrauri from Argentina who's team-mate was Stefano Modena, United States 1990 with Roberto Moreno from Brazil who's team-mate was Claudio Langes)
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 11:56
by Har1MAS1415
Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2023, 10:42
From the annals of F1 History: (Since I am not sure whether this constitutes a coincidence more than an unusual F1 stat or vice versa)
Eurobrun's first and last classified finishes were 13th places in North American races with South American drivers who had Italian team-mates! (Mexico 1988 with Oscar Larrauri from Argentina who's team-mate was Stefano Modena, United States 1990 with Roberto Moreno from Brazil who's team-mate was Claudio Langes)
In each case, the Italian team-mate didn't even pre-qualify!
Re: Biggest coincidences in motorsport
Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 12:45
by Har1MAS1415
Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2023, 11:56
Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2023, 10:42
From the annals of F1 History: (Since I am not sure whether this constitutes a coincidence more than an unusual F1 stat or vice versa)
Eurobrun's first and last classified finishes were 13th places in North American races with South American drivers who had Italian team-mates! (Mexico 1988 with Oscar Larrauri from Argentina who's team-mate was Stefano Modena, United States 1990 with Roberto Moreno from Brazil who's team-mate was Claudio Langes)
In each case, the Italian team-mate didn't even pre-qualify!
Also in both pairings drivers with surname starting with "Mo" were, generally, superior to ones starting with "La"!