Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **02 Jun 2019, 09:24**

It is time. Let the silly season begin.

Posted: **02 Jun 2019, 20:07**

The silliest thing about this article is that it presumes patience from Red Bull that will last a whole season for "the under-performing Gasly". Too silly for me! :lol:

Posted: **02 Jun 2019, 21:07**

Rob Dylan wrote:The silliest thing about this article is that it presumes patience from Red Bull that will last a whole season for "the under-performing Gasly". Too silly for me!

I would quite like some mid-season driver transfers; it's been far too long since an underperforming driver has had the axe fall on him to be mourned on this forum.

A collection of all of the silliness I've seen suggested around the place would seem to be as follows:

Alfa Sauber - Mick Schumacher in for Giovinazzi
Ferrari - Vettel retires, replaced by Ricciardo
Haas - Grosjean booted out for an Indycar driver - Fittipaldi or O'Ward.
McLaren - Launches a full-time Indycar team, despite not having engines for their F1 team as mentioned below
Mercedes - Wins all of the races, the WDC, the WCC, the Pole Trophy and the Fastest Lap Award.
Racing Point - May actually employ a reserve driver one day.
Red Bull - Gasly is dropped, replaced by Hulkenberg
Renault - Abandons the sport entirely
Toro Rosso - Kvyat to be fired for the 2020 season, being replaced by Daniil Kvyat.
Williams - Artem Markelov comes in with the support of his dad's laundered money and buys half the team

Posted: **03 Jun 2019, 19:42**

Rob Dylan wrote:The silliest thing about this article is that it presumes patience from Red Bull that will last a whole season for "the under-performing Gasly". Too silly for me!

The one thing that might constrain Red Bull is the fact that they'd need to be able to promote somebody as quickly as they could sack Gasly, unless they were to switch Gasly with one of the Toro Rosso drivers.

As things stand, they don't have a driver on the books who is eligible for a superlicence right now, and right now Ticktum's results in the Superformula series aren't going to earn him a licence in the near future. The only way they could promote from within would be switching a driver from Toro Rosso to Red Bull, but that would either mean the politically awkward case of hiring Kvyat, or promoting Albon - who has done better than expected, but it would be a big step up at such an early stage of his career.

The idea of Hulkenberg going to Red Bull might be something of a poisoned chalice though - he'd be going to a top team, but doing so against a team mate that is the pride and joy of the team and at a time when Mercedes seem to have opened up a gap to everybody else again.

Posted: **03 Jun 2019, 20:52**

mario wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:The silliest thing about this article is that it presumes patience from Red Bull that will last a whole season for "the under-performing Gasly". Too silly for me!

The one thing that might constrain Red Bull is the fact that they'd need to be able to promote somebody as quickly as they could sack Gasly, unless they were to switch Gasly with one of the Toro Rosso drivers.

As things stand, they don't have a driver on the books who is eligible for a superlicence right now, and right now Ticktum's results in the Superformula series aren't going to earn him a licence in the near future. The only way they could promote from within would be switching a driver from Toro Rosso to Red Bull, but that would either mean the politically awkward case of hiring Kvyat, or promoting Albon - who has done better than expected, but it would be a big step up at such an early stage of his career.

The idea of Hulkenberg going to Red Bull might be something of a poisoned chalice though - he'd be going to a top team, but doing so against a team mate that is the pride and joy of the team and at a time when Mercedes seem to have opened up a gap to everybody else again.

So far Hulkenberg has proven himself as a development driver, a dependable set of hands. He has lead in the past (Sauber 2013) but without having been a number 1 driver since then could he still be a leader on the team he's in? With Red Bull it would be a tough sell to wrestle favorable conditions and influence from Verstappen.

Posted: **04 Jun 2019, 00:42**

CaptainGetz12 wrote:So far Hulkenberg has proven himself as a development driver, a dependable set of hands. He has lead in the past (Sauber 2013) but without having been a number 1 driver since then could he still be a leader on the team he's in? With Red Bull it would be a tough sell to wrestle favorable conditions and influence from Verstappen.

But he'd probably get that podium at long last? Maybe even a life-affirming race win

Posted: **06 Jun 2019, 19:03**

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1136677322596200449

Seeing more and more stuff about Hulkenberg replacing Gasly. A lot of stuff looks photoshopped, so I'm not putting faith in it. Even if Red Bull were to replace him, it absolutely wouldn't be this sudden before a race weekend. I give it a few more races for Gasly to perform - I'll bet he's been given a very serious hurry-up by Marko and the team.

Posted: **07 Jun 2019, 09:11**

Aislabie wrote:[*]Haas - Grosjean booted out for an Indycar driver - Fittipaldi or O'Ward.

No no no, Louis Delétraz for Grosjean! He's already a development and simulation driver with Haas and we could have a reject family!

Aislabie wrote:[*]Williams - Artem Markelov comes in with the support of his dad's laundered money and buys half the team[/list]

Williams abandons the pretense that it is anything other than the slowest team on the grid and goes full pay-driver, with Artem Markelov and Nicholas Latifi.

Posted: **09 Jun 2019, 21:19**

Could Vettel possibly be walking away after what happened to him today?

Posted: **09 Jun 2019, 21:53**

Rob Dylan wrote:https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1136677322596200449

Seeing more and more stuff about Hulkenberg replacing Gasly. A lot of stuff looks photoshopped, so I'm not putting faith in it. Even if Red Bull were to replace him, it absolutely wouldn't be this sudden before a race weekend. I give it a few more races for Gasly to perform - I'll bet he's been given a very serious hurry-up by Marko and the team.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an element of pressuring Gasly to up his game - the team might not be under pressure in the WCC, but I can't imagine they'll appreciate Gasly currently being closer to the midfield pack than he is to Leclerc (36 points off Leclerc and only 18 ahead of Sainz Jr).

James1978 wrote:Could Vettel possibly be walking away after what happened to him today?

Well, that has been a question floating around Vettel this season - he has denied that he intended to quit, stating that he was keen to continue in F1 for the future, and I don't think that this will be enough to make him want to quit immediately, but perhaps might somewhat sour his relationship with the sport and make him think of bringing his retirement forwards.

Posted: **10 Jun 2019, 00:03**

I'm starting to wonder how much patience Toto Wolff still has with Bottas. Surely if he doesn't get back to his performance at the beginning of the season there will be questions asked, especially after Mercedes had to create a job to keep Ocon busy at the end of 2018.

Posted: **10 Jun 2019, 08:35**

Ok, this is as "silly" as silly season could get, but IF Gasly goes mid season, but what about Ocon replacing him? It seems a win-win, for all, Mercedes could consider putting Ocon out on loan for a while, because if Bottas carries on like he did yesterday, then it allows Ocon to get back up to speed while Mercedes make their decision. Also, it would be a CLEAR message to Bottas that this is what is going on, and could re-ignite his 2019 fire. And RBR get a driver who for a while could enable them to get themselves a chance got get better constructor's points. Of course, the glaring problem is that Ocon could take whatever Merc secrets he knows to RBR.

Posted: **10 Jun 2019, 10:45**

Pacific 777 wrote:Ok, this is as "silly" as silly season could get, but IF Gasly goes mid season, but what about Ocon replacing him? It seems a win-win, for all, Mercedes could consider putting Ocon out on loan for a while, because if Bottas carries on like he did yesterday, then it allows Ocon to get back up to speed while Mercedes make their decision. Also, it would be a CLEAR message to Bottas that this is what is going on, and could re-ignite his 2019 fire. And RBR get a driver who for a while could enable them to get themselves a chance got get better constructor's points. Of course, the glaring problem is that Ocon could take whatever Merc secrets he knows to RBR.

Given how Christian Horner categorically excluded any Mercedes drivers from his target pool for the second driver, I don't see that happening. Williams and Racing Point would take him on (in the case of Williams only if Mercedes covered some of the salary because they can't afford much more than a shilling and thruppence these days).

Posted: **11 Jun 2019, 07:13**

Okay lets see how many I get right.

Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
Esteban Ocon

Unless Bottas can maintain a serious challenge for the title I see no reason not to take that punt on Ocon next season.

Ferrari
Sebastian Vettel
Charles Leclerc

No changes here.

Red Bull-Honda
Max Verstappen
Nico Hulkenburg

Gasly will last the full 2019 season, I think it would be harsh to drop him part way through his first season. I really hope this Hulkenburg to Red Bull rumour happens though, if only to finally stop him from being the Chris Amon of podiums.

Renault
Daniel Ricciardo
Valtteri Bottas

With Hulkenburg to Red Bull, Bottas would be a nice fit giving Renault two drivers with recent front running car experience. Another possibility would be picking up Gasly if only to have a French driver.

McLaren-Renault
Carlos Sainz Jr.
Lando Norris

Both drivers are thriving to the point I think both will stick around for several seasons. No changes.

Haas-Ferrari
Kevin Magnussen
Sergio Perez

I cannot see the Magnussen/Grosjean pairing lasting another season, its honestly one of the weaker pairings at the moment. Grosjean is most likely to be the man out and its time Perez jumped into another team. I could see Magnussen out too with maybe Kvyat or Gasly in his place.

Toro Rosso-Honda
Daniil Kvyat
Alexander Albon

Gasly could be moved back down but it would be a shame to lose either of Kvyat or Albon who have both been solid so far. Can't see Dan Ticktum getting a shot till 2021 or enough super-license points, (honestly what does Red Bull have against F2/GP2? Why Super Formula?)

Fake Alfa Sauber
Kimi Raikkonen
Antonio Giovinazzi

As underwhelming as Gio has been so far, unless Mick Schumacher suddenly becomes a contender for the F2 title I think his place is safe for another season. Kimi will likely hold on for at least one more season too. No changes.

Racing (What's the) Point-Mercedes
Lance Stroll
George Russell

Lets face it, Stroll isn't going anywhere and if Perez moves on, Mercedes should place Russell here so that he can at least get to race against other teams next season.

Williams-Mercedes
Nicolas Latifi
Sergei Sirotkin

Russell moves to Racing Point while I cannot see the Kubica experiment lasting past this season. I'll be shocked if Latifi isn't in Kubica's seat next season considering he's already the reserve driver and comes with much needed $, particularly if he wins F2. As for the other seat, Sirotkin ought to get another shot if he has funding (he should have had Kubica's seat this season frankly) or it'll be whatever pay-driver Williams can find that has enough super-license points. Or Russell will have to endure another pointless season at the team.

Posted: **11 Jun 2019, 09:20**

Most of that is quite possible, and I think a change of scenery would do Bottas a LOT of good.

Only thing that probably won't happen is Sirotkin back to Williams, given what his backers had to say about Williams last time around, I doubt either party would be interested in a second stint.

Posted: **11 Jun 2019, 09:48**

Welp

Posted: **11 Jun 2019, 14:42**

^The idea of a shell company whose official US website is flagged as a malicious link by Google, calling anyone parasites, is rather well, rich. That to me is the worst part of the 2019 Season, its really hard to be a Haas fan this year, for a number of reasons.

Posted: **12 Jun 2019, 23:43**

TLDR:

Vettel -> RBR
Verstappen -> Ferrari
Hamilton stays put
Bottas -> loses seat to Ocon?
Kubica -> out

I don't think Vettel will be driving for Ferrari this time next year. I think there is a fairly good chance he is in a dark-blue/red car instead. Yes, Vettel will return to Red Bull Racing, and Verstappen will move to Ferrari (for pretty much the same reason that Vettel did a couple of years ago).

I get the feeling that Vettel is longing for the "good old days" at Red Bull (i.e. when he was doing what Hamilton is doing now). All those comments about how he is no longer driving in the racing series he fell in love with (i.e. the 2010-2014 years at Red Bull Racing when he took his four WDC titles) - that's not what you say when you're happy where you are. I don't think it was all complaining about the stewards either. I think the honeymoon is over, and he is realizing he maybe shouldn't have met his hero. His contract with Ferrari is up at the end of the year, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari are contemplating a future without him - in particular due to his series of mostly-unforced errors while battling his chief rival Hamilton for position on the track. Vettel won't get another world title at Ferrari (even though he really wanted to do so, to follow in Michael's footsteps) while Hamilton is at Mercedes (and he wants 8 titles - number 6 will happen this year, number 7 probably next year).

Big aero changes are coming in 2021 - 18 inch wheels along with changes to the floor and wings. There will also be changes to the PUs. Getting the car design right will be key. Not only will aerodynamics change, but the cars will have to adapt to new ways of generating and keeping heat in the tyres, when the brakes are no longer able to heat the wheel (and thus the tyre attached to it) as efficiently. If Vettel wants another world championship, I think that RBR in 2021 will be the team to do it with as Newey will likely be Newey and make another masterpiece with the new design regulations that everybody else will take months to adopt properly.

As for Verstappen, I get the feeling that he is too young and racy for Helmut Marko and is not seeing the performance that he perhaps hoped for (in particular, he isn't seeing the podium as often as he would like to). RBR may well decide to let him go, in favour of the tried and tested Vettel (who they didn't want to let go in the first place). It would not surprise me if Verstappen has a performance break-clause that he could invoke to get to a team more likely to give him race wins and podium spots. Helmut Marko wants 5 wins this year (one more than last year), so far he has got two third-places from 7 races.

Hamilton is sticking with Mercedes for the forseeable future. I think his current contract takes him up to 2021. Hamilton wants to do another 5-6 years in F1, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he retired a Mercedes driver. Why would he leave Mercedes for Ferrari, the only other team close to the podium, when they keep making these operative mistakes? Hamilton might go for a Ferrari seat if they are better than Mercedes at the end of his contract. It also remains to be seen which direction Ola Källenius wants to take Daimler and what kind of future he sees in F1 (in particular, how much of a focus Formula-E will get over the next decade) - although this is probably also linked to the new Concorde Agreement due for 2021 (and whether or not RTL will retain the rights to live broadcast in Free-TV to the DACH region or if those go to a Pay-TV broadcaster).

Bottas could be in trouble. Since Barcelona he has been showing more of the Bottas from the second half of 2018 than the Bottas that set the timing sheets alive in the first couple of races this spring. He is once again on a 1 year contract, and has Esteban Ocon waiting to jump in his seat if the music stops while Bottas is in a slump. You can't even be a useful second driver if you aren't keeping the red team at bay.

At the other end of the field, I don't see Kubica sticking around at Williams. Sure, it was a nice feel-good story about the plucky racing driver who did the impossible and fought his way back into an F1 car years after nearly losing his hand in a rallying accident, but he hasn't been performing at all. Even Williams, who desperately needed any kind of good press coverage at the end of 2018 need a driver capable of getting higher than 18th on a regular basis and somehow occasionally dragging that lump of lead into Q2. They need points, so that they can afford to pay more than the last shilling and sixpence in Claire's childhood piggy-bank as a salary and attract some sponsors again.

Posted: **13 Jun 2019, 01:05**

Fetzie wrote:His contract with Ferrari is up at the end of the year, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari are contemplating a future without him - in particular due to his series of mostly-unforced errors while battling his chief rival Hamilton for position on the track.

He signed an extension that will keep him at the team until the end of next season. Your post is a year too early.

Fetzie wrote:If Vettel wants another world championship, I think that RBR in 2021 will be the team to do it with as Newey will likely be Newey and make another masterpiece with the new design regulations that everybody else will take months to adopt properly.

You mean like he did in 2017? Oh, wait...

Fetzie wrote:As for Verstappen, I get the feeling that he is too young and racy for Helmut Marko and is not seeing the performance that he perhaps hoped for (in particular, he isn't seeing the podium as often as he would like to).

Marko is more worried that Verstappen will leave Red Bull than vice-versa. As long as they've any say in the matter, Verstappen isn't going anywhere.

Posted: **13 Jun 2019, 10:53**

I see Grosjean, Giovinazzi and Kubica being most at risk of being bumped from their seats.

Grosjean has been quite poor this season; it's clear that Magnussen's the de facto team leader now, and Haas needs to find somebody else who's not going to waste opportunities. If either of the Toro Rosso guys gets bumped out by Dick Tantrum, then they'd be a prime candidate.

Giovinazzi seems pretty out of his depth, but I don't know who could realistically replace him at this point, while Latifi seems primed to pick up the second Williams drive as Kubica continues to be way off of Russell's pace.

Posted: **13 Jun 2019, 11:49**

Ataxia wrote:I see Grosjean, Giovinazzi and Kubica being most at risk of being bumped from their seats.

Grosjean has been quite poor this season; it's clear that Magnussen's the de facto team leader now, and Haas needs to find somebody else who's not going to waste opportunities. If either of the Toro Rosso guys gets bumped out by Dick Tantrum, then they'd be a prime candidate.

Giovinazzi seems pretty out of his depth, but I don't know who could realistically replace him at this point, while Latifi seems primed to pick up the second Williams drive as Kubica continues to be way off of Russell's pace.

The return of Marcus Erisson perhaps? He's still in Sauber's payroll, and he still has money. Gio is there mostly because of the Ferrari connections. And isn't Kimi's contract out at the end of this year as well?

Posted: **13 Jun 2019, 12:07**

Ataxia wrote:

Not related to this, but 'taking the form of a terrier's ears sweeping backwards in a strong summer's breeze' made me choke on my lunch.

Posted: **13 Jun 2019, 15:27**

Faustus wrote:
Ataxia wrote:

Not related to this, but 'taking the form of a terrier's ears sweeping backwards in a strong summer's breeze' made me choke on my lunch.

Posted: **21 Jun 2019, 09:49**

Sirotkin has been named McLaren reserve driver starting at the French GP

Posted: **22 Jun 2019, 20:21**

Aislabie wrote:
Toro Rosso - Kvyat to be fired for the 2020 season, being replaced by Daniil Kvyat.

This is the one thing I can confidently predict.

Posted: **26 Jun 2019, 14:28**

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27 ... -next-year

Toto trying to push for Ocon to Renault next year.

Posted: **26 Jun 2019, 19:44**

Pacific 777 wrote:https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27051618/wolff-confident-ocon-f1-seat-next-year

Toto trying to push for Ocon to Renault next year.

Well, it would make sense given that they did lend Ocon to Renault a few years ago and the previous negotiations they had with Renault if, and it is very much a big if, a seat were to open up there.

Posted: **26 Jun 2019, 21:24**

mario wrote:
Pacific 777 wrote:https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27051618/wolff-confident-ocon-f1-seat-next-year

Toto trying to push for Ocon to Renault next year.

Well, it would make sense given that they did lend Ocon to Renault a few years ago and the previous negotiations they had with Renault if, and it is very much a big if, a seat were to open up there.

I wonder if a certain Red Bull are looking into this situation with some interest...

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 12:22**

Can't imagine too many people here will be sorry for Ticktum: https://www.motorsport.com/super-formula/news/red-bull-drops-junior-ticktum/4483618/

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 17:32**

Do McLaren have on option on Fernando for 2020 now the car's working quite well? Just saying.

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 18:04**

Spectoremg wrote:Do McLaren have on option on Fernando for 2020 now the car's working quite well? Just saying.

Well Alonso will not run the next WEC season, so perhaps he is taking a potential return to F1 seriously considering there hasn't been much discussion about him moving full-time to Indycar or elsewhere.

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 18:07**

good_Ralf wrote:Can't imagine too many people here will be sorry for Ticktum: https://www.motorsport.com/super-formula/news/red-bull-drops-junior-ticktum/4483618/

It certainly doesn't surprise me that it has happened, because his performance seemed to sharply decline in the latter half of last year and he's been really off the pace in the Super Formula series - his behaviour in the Asian Formula 3 series did little to either bolster his reputation or endear him to anybody either.

CaptainGetz12 wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:Do McLaren have on option on Fernando for 2020 now the car's working quite well? Just saying.

Well Alonso will not run the next WEC season, so perhaps he is taking a potential return to F1 seriously considering there hasn't been much discussion about him moving full-time to Indycar or elsewhere.

I think that McLaren has an option in theory, but in practise it sounds as if Alonso is looking elsewhere.

Posted: **01 Jul 2019, 09:18**

I simply can't see what's there to tempt Alonso about F1 since 2014/15. But saying that, he's raced so many years in the sport since then, that it's entirely possible he'll come back in 2020, like a partner into an abusive relationship. He surely gets no real benefit outside of the obvious mone¥-unit$. He should stay away and join IndyCar or something, rather than trying to get some inkling of success in a sport that isn't going to give him back anything emotionally.

Posted: **01 Jul 2019, 09:29**

Alonso would surely only want to join a championship contender team?

So Mercedes (replacing Bottas) to team up with some-one who is the chosen one in the team, with whom he has a poor history and has undermined at McLaren.

Or Ferrari (replacing a retiring Vettel) to a team he has already shown he cannot work with and with a team-mate who is clearly the next big thing.

Or Red Bull (replacing an underperforming Gasly) to an engine he has described as F2 and a team-mate who is also clearly the next big thing and the chosen one.

A sad example of poor choices and bad attitude spoiling what was potentially a great F1 career. To my mind he is the best out there, especially in a bad car, but he has let himself and his teams down to often to be an all-time great like Senna and Schumacher.

Posted: **02 Jul 2019, 07:46**

To put the opposing view, I would say Alonso 2011-2018 did far more to endear to me that he is an all-time great than his big years. Maybe it's the Brit in me, but I love the underdog, and Alonso's excellent drives in under-performing cars, in spite of the fact that everything seemed to be leaning against him no matter what happened. The fact that he held on in that vain hope he might one day return; maybe some people see that as sad, but personally I love it. Alonso at Renault and McLaren (2007) was utterly insufferable. He was handed everything, and expected everything (never forget his attitude after winning the Nürburgring in 2007: https://youtu.be/K9_SJNM3yxo?t=57) To me, it wasn't until he got humiliated in Abu Dhabi 2010 that I started liking the guy, and he started showing his skill in sub-par cars, and really showed his legendary status.

Just my opinion, though.

Posted: **03 Jul 2019, 08:23**

mario wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Can't imagine too many people here will be sorry for Ticktum: https://www.motorsport.com/super-formula/news/red-bull-drops-junior-ticktum/4483618/

It certainly doesn't surprise me that it has happened, because his performance seemed to sharply decline in the latter half of last year and he's been really off the pace in the Super Formula series - his behaviour in the Asian Formula 3 series did little to either bolster his reputation or endear him to anybody either.

More importantly, he is a spoilt brat who is finally getting what he deserves. I know an engineer at Red Bull who has worked with him in the simulator who says that Ticktum is an arsehole.

Posted: **08 Jul 2019, 13:00**

Well in other news Williams are rumoured to be ditching the one good component of their car they had going for them by switching to Renault engines. :facepalm:

http://insideracing.com/index.php/formu ... X4BtavJKfQ

Posted: **08 Jul 2019, 14:06**

Samster wrote:Well in other news Williams are rumoured to be ditching the one good component of their car they had going for them by switching to Renault engines.

http://insideracing.com/index.php/formu ... X4BtavJKfQ

Such a phenomenally bad idea. Still, it's probably in character with Williams' recent performance.

Posted: **09 Jul 2019, 09:21**

They're probably remembering the glory years of 2013, when they scored 5 points - 5 more points than they currently have. You could multiply Williams' current points haul by a million and they still wouldn't have their haul from 2013.

Posted: **09 Jul 2019, 09:29**

Apperenly it's because Williams refuse to use the whole drivetrain of Mercedes (which Racing Point does), and they're not fond of Williams stubborn independence when it makes them arguably less competitive. Renault are less picky with the teams they supply.

Fan theory: Maldonado comeback!

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